Koh Tao: Trial opens for 2 accused of killing British tourists

[Mooner]

Somyot called it a misunderstanding that stemmed from foreign media covering the case who might have poor Thai language skills.

So every foreign media outlet is using westerners to translate instead of Thai nationals? Give me a break. Might have to now considering the alleged threats to the Sky news translator.

[nuakmuaynina]

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/jul/10/family-of-briton-murdered-in-thailand-its-been-hard-very-hard

It's been on BBC breakfast news this morning and in the papers.

Must be very hard for the families and bad for thailands image.

[thailandchilli]

Thai police chief: Evidence in tourist murder trial not lost

THANYARAT DOKSONE, Associated Press

BANGKOK (AP) — Authorities have possession of crucial DNA evidence in the murder trial of two Burmese migrants accused of killing two young British tourists on a Thai resort island, the national police chief insisted Friday, disputing reports that it might have been lost.

The trial has drawn global attention both for the gruesome murders on the quiet, scenic island of Koh Tao last year and for an investigation that raised questions about police and judicial competency.

The latest questions arose three days into the trail on Thursday when media covering the trial on the nearby island of Koh Samui quoted a police witness as saying some of the evidence may have been lost or destroyed. The court was expected to rule Friday on a defense request to re-examine the DNA evidence.

"It is not lost," national police chief Gen. Somyot Poompanmoung told reporters in Bangkok. "I repeat: Nothing is lost."

Somyot called it a misunderstanding that stemmed from foreign media covering the case who might have poor Thai language skills.

Somyot said the local police investigator, Lt Col Somsak Nurod, was vague in his testimony and therefore was misinterpreted. Somsak was no longer in possession of the DNA evidence since he collected it and then sent it to the Forensics Medicine Institute in Bangkok, Somyot said.

"Nothing is missing. It's a misunderstanding," the police chief said.

The bodies of backpackers David Miller, 24, and Hannah Witheridge, 23, were found Sept. 15 on the rocky shores of Koh Tao. Autopsies showed that both had suffered severe head wounds and that Witheridge had been raped.

Under intense pressure to catch the murderers, police carried out DNA tests on more than 200 people on Koh Tao before arresting the two Myanmar migrants in early October.

The men — Win Zaw Htun and Zaw Lin, both 22, — have retracted their initial confessions, saying they were extracted through beatings and threats, which police deny. From the start, investigators faced a variety of criticisms, including for failing to secure the crime scene and for releasing names and pictures of suspects who turned out to be innocent.

Prosecutors say the DNA evidence, collected from cigarette butts, a condom and the bodies of the victims, links the two men to the killings, and defense lawyers have been requesting that evidence for re-examination since April.

Andy Hall, a British migrant rights activist working with the defense, said that handing over the DNA evidence was crucial to delivering justice.

"Without the samples it undermines the opportunity of the defense to get a fair trial," Hall said. "More importantly, if it is not provided, or if the forensics material is used up, it would undermine the credibility of the whole investigation."

-- (c) Associated Press 2015-07-10

Yea right, reminds me of this little episode:

The Thai charge d'affaires has been summoned to the UK Foreign Office over concerns about the inquiry into the murders of two British tourists.

Hannah Witheridge, 23, and 24-year-old David Miller were killed in an attack on the island of Koh Tao last month.

Foreign Office minister Hugo Swire told the diplomat there was "concern" about how the investigation had been handled. http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-29604685

Gen Prayut, also the chief of the National Council for Peace and Order denied the report that the British government summoned the Thai charge d'affaires in London to inquire about the Ko Tao case.

He said that the Thai authorities offered to explain the issue and the British government had no doubt. http://www.mcot.net/site/content?id=543cf1e6be04708b218b456a#.VZ-FGPmqpBc

No doubt we'll have plenty more of these misunderstandings throughout the case. One wonders who they are trying to kid but its certainly not the international community.

[amerasianex]

Police in Thailand asked their witness to lie and say he seen the whole crime. And the 75 YO security guard whent to court and told the judge what the police wanted him to do. now he is missing...... So thats what we are dealing with...No evidence need be present. Theycan manufactur their own well enough. This was attempted murder that carries a 20 year sentance in Thailand

[realenglish1]

I have not had an opinion till now on this case. Now I do and hope these judges have common sense.

I have no idea as I said in my last post how a condom is part of the evidence and if a proper DNA test was done I am 99% certain

it will come up without and DNA of the Myanmar suspects.

I have been a journalist for more than 30 years. covering many rape/murder scenes. Never in my reporting history has a condom been used by someone who is

raping and murdering someone. That type of mind set does not say " OH I am going to have sex with this person I will murder later so I should where a condom" or the other mind set is

" I Had better wear a condom so I don't leave my DNA"

Unless it is a boyfriend/girlfriend. husband/wife situation I don't think the mastermind of this murder will use a condom .

This whole case smells I hope these guy guilty or not have good lawyers

[Jockey]

Hopefully some things will fall into place when Montriwat Tuwichian is questioned by the defence about his 15th September early morning jog in his pants.

Meanwhile, investigators detained Montriwat Tuwichian, 45, a younger brother of Mr Woraphan, after confirming Mr Montriwat is the Asian-looking suspect caught insecurity camera images a few hours before the two Britons were found dead on the beach on the morning of Sept 15.

http://www.mirror.co.uk/search/simple.do;jsessionid=77520D0824208C96EC15C72B6700A0C8?searchString=koh+tao&pageNumber=1&articleTypes=+news+opinion+advice&pageLength=5&destinationSectionId=219&sectionId=69&publicationName=mirror&sortString=publishdate&sortOrder=desc

Unfortunately I don't think its possible for the defence to question Montriwat as Montriwat is not on trial. I hope I'm wrong but I don't think I am.

[Jai Dee]

A post containing Thai Language has been removed from this thread.

From the Forum Rules:

English is the only acceptable language anywhere on ThaiVisa including Classifieds, except within the Thai language forum, where of course using Thai is allowed.

[arrowsdawdle]

Statement: Defence Lawyers Team, Koh Tao Case

KOH SAMUI:-- A team of defence lawyers assumed responsibility for this case in the name of the Lawyers Council of Thailand as this appeared to be a situation where the accused had been tortured to confess to the crimes they are accused of.

The accused in this case are migrant workers but all their basic human rights for access to justice as the accused and defendants in a criminal case should be respected.

The Lawyers Council of Thailand expects justice to be achieved for all parties to this case and is working to ensure the truth is revealed. The Lawyers Council of Thailand is confident that the mechanisms of the justice system including prosecution officials, defence lawyers and the court itself will be able to ensure that the United Kingdom, Myanmar and other countries across the world consider and accept the Thai justice system as adhering to standards of international justice.

The Lawyers Council of Thailand hopes that both domestic and international media will cooperate in reporting the truth in this case in a correct manner, in a way that respects the deceased and their families and in such a way as to ensure justice for all parties to the case in accordance with everyone’s expectations. I would like to thank the media in advance for your cooperation.

Mr. Nakhon Chomphuchat

Koh Samui

8th July 2015

"The Lawyers Council of Thailand hopes that both domestic and international media will cooperate in reporting the truth in this case in a correct manner, in a way that respects the deceased and their families and in such a way as to ensure justice for all parties to the case in accordance with everyone’s expectations. I would like to thank the media in advance for your cooperation."

That's very rich of them to say when the defense team, and their proxies, have been busy for months disseminating and encouraging all sort of speculation and rumor mongering to hold the trial "on the court of public opinion" directly in opposition with the stated wishes from the victim's families.

Perhaps, time and truth will reveal that speculation is the foundation of the charges against the B2.

[minikev]

I agree that it is very possible that a statement made by a police officer could be translated badly and then used by hungry reporters possibly even knowing it was a bad translation. Surely in a case with such a high world profile the police themselves when making statements would benefit from an official translator. Just an idea!

[arrowsdawdle]

Hopefully some things will fall into place when Montriwat Tuwichian is questioned by the defence about his 15th September early morning jog in his pants.

Meanwhile, investigators detained Montriwat Tuwichian, 45, a younger brother of Mr Woraphan, after confirming Mr Montriwat is the Asian-looking suspect caught insecurity camera images a few hours before the two Britons were found dead on the beach on the morning of Sept 15.

http://www.mirror.co.uk/search/simple.do;jsessionid=77520D0824208C96EC15C72B6700A0C8?searchString=koh+tao&pageNumber=1&articleTypes=+news+opinion+advice&pageLength=5&destinationSectionId=219&sectionId=69&publicationName=mirror&sortString=publishdate&sortOrder=desc

Unfortunately I don't think its possible for the defence to question Montriwat as Montriwat is not on trial. I hope I'm wrong but I don't think I am.

Be careful what you hope for....

[SOTIRIOS]

...justice has to begin outside of the courtroom....

..and this is not just about the judicial system....

...it is about how foreigners are treated....including the deceased...

[IamNoone88]

I think, like many, I just want to see a fair and just trial. It may be that the two accused did commit the act, in which case the evidence and the truth should be unequivable and justice should be served. On the other hand, if there is any doubt, they should be freed and then with the killer(s) at large, the police have unfinished business to find and bring the real perpetrators to justice - no matter the cost. I saw the pictures of the two victims on the beach and God only alone knows how their parents felt. Whoever did this, I hope that without any doubt, justice will be served. I hope that this shows the RTP that an educated world and international free press are watching the process closely and they also under scrutiny and being judged by their diligence of their police work. There is nowhere to hide on this one.

[Jockey]

I have not had an opinion till now on this case. Now I do and hope these judges have common sense.

I have no idea as I said in my last post how a condom is part of the evidence and if a proper DNA test was done I am 99% certain

it will come up without and DNA of the Myanmar suspects.

I have been a journalist for more than 30 years. covering many rape/murder scenes. Never in my reporting history has a condom been used by someone who is

raping and murdering someone. That type of mind set does not say " OH I am going to have sex with this person I will murder later so I should where a condom" or the other mind set is

" I Had better wear a condom so I don't leave my DNA"

Unless it is a boyfriend/girlfriend. husband/wife situation I don't think the mastermind of this murder will use a condom .

This whole case smells I hope these guy guilty or not have good lawyers

Also, if you were using a condom would you just throw it away on the beach to leave as evidence? What if that part of the beach is regularly used by young party goers for sex? The Thai police have said the Burmese guys sneaked up on David & Hannah having sex. They do not look very strong and I find it very difficult to believe they fought off both of them, just happened to find a garden hoe then take time to put a condom on before the rape? Hopefully this part of the evidence will be scutinised during the defence.

[webfact]

Police chief defends Koh Tao DNA lost ‘a misunderstanding’

BANGKOK, 10 July 2015 (NNT) – The Royal Thai Police chief clarified that the DNA samples for the Koh Tao murder case had been stored at the Institute of Forensic Medicine, quelling allegations that the evidence was lost during investigation.

The Royal Thai Police Commissioner-General Pol Gen Somyot Pumpunmuang addressed the misunderstanding about the DNA samples for the Koh Tao murder case, assuring that the evidence was not lost.

He cited the Provincial Police Region 8 Commissioner, stating that all collected DNA samples from the date of incident had been sent to the Institute of Forensic Medicine by investigators, before being examined by the Central Scientific Crime Detection Division.

The examination results of the DNA samples have been used to compile forensic evidence for this case's court proceedings.

Regarding the investigator’s statement to the court claiming that the samples have not been stored, the Police Chief explained that was is not the investigator's task to store the evidence, as only the examination results were required during the court procession. Lawyers can request access to the examination results directly through the court. Once the court passes consideration, a command will be issued to the police to forward the examination results to the lawyer.

He also addressed that other evidence apart from the DNA results, such as the surrounding witnesses and other evidences found on the crime scene, will also be utilized for the court proceedings in this case.


-- NNT 2015-07-10

[loonodingle]

Watch this...

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-33474056

[stephenterry]

If there was going to be a fair trial the b2 wouldn't be. in the dock.

[hawksway]

So DNA Analysis was taken from condoms at the crime scene. Do we really believe a rapist would use a condom especially in the environment concerned?

[loonodingle]

Another update from the sky news guy outside the court room. the first video down.

All Credit to Heidi Anna. A Star in a very dark Sky.

https://www.facebook.com/heidi.a.zimmerman?hc_location=ufi

[Sure]

Use of a condom could be explained in a gang rape scenario

[thailandchilli]

Police chief defends Koh Tao DNA lost ‘a misunderstanding’

BANGKOK, 10 July 2015 (NNT) – The Royal Thai Police chief clarified that the DNA samples for the Koh Tao murder case had been stored at the Institute of Forensic Medicine, quelling allegations that the evidence was lost during investigation.

The Royal Thai Police Commissioner-General Pol Gen Somyot Pumpunmuang addressed the misunderstanding about the DNA samples for the Koh Tao murder case, assuring that the evidence was not lost.

He cited the Provincial Police Region 8 Commissioner, stating that all collected DNA samples from the date of incident had been sent to the Institute of Forensic Medicine by investigators, before being examined by the Central Scientific Crime Detection Division.

The examination results of the DNA samples have been used to compile forensic evidence for this case's court proceedings.

Regarding the investigator’s statement to the court claiming that the samples have not been stored, the Police Chief explained that was is not the investigator's task to store the evidence, as only the examination results were required during the court procession. Lawyers can request access to the examination results directly through the court. Once the court passes consideration, a command will be issued to the police to forward the examination results to the lawyer.

He also addressed that other evidence apart from the DNA results, such as the surrounding witnesses and other evidences found on the crime scene, will also be utilized for the court proceedings in this case.

-- NNT 2015-07-10

So I take it that any further contradictions made by the RTP will be put down to misunderstandings, yeah right, fool the Thai's but you really cant fool the international press sorry

[nev]

Not lost just tampered with.

[EnglishJohn]

Those rejoicing that Porntip is a defense witness should be very cautious.

The generals gave her her job back, she was a vociferous supporter of the coup, and the political movement behind the coup, and she is connected to the current junta by a web of patronage. This doesn't require a big conspiracy theory. A single phone call saying " We are very glad we reappointed you to your old job Khun Pornthip. Are you enjoying it? Oh Good! I hope this Kho Tao case does not turn out to be embarrassing for Thailand, don't you? Good. I thought not."

It doesn't take much.

She has demonstrated already that she will deny the principles of basic science if given a pressing outside reason. I do not believe someone with a Ph.D in forensic science, requiring a thorough grounding in basic physics and chemistry, genuinely believes an empty box is a bomb detector, working on a principle as yet unknown to basic physics and chemistry. She is not a technologically ignorant general.

So this is not a matter of differing fields of expertise, but a matter of honesty, of trustworthiness.

Calling her as a defense witness may backfire hugely. The only statement I have read from her on this case was one casting doubt (completely incorrectly and inappropriately) on the whole concept of retesting the DNA, by implying the samples may not be retestable, and that retesting is rarely done.

In all forensic labs the first directive is to divide your sample and store portions in a permanent and stable manner, in reserve, in case retesting becomes necessary for whatever reason. Since the samples were sent to the Forensic Institute in Bangkok, they presumably know how to store DNA stably, in freezers, indefinitely. This is standard. There is no chance that the DNA will not be retestable if stored as every DNA lab in the world stores DNA.

Moreover the innocence project in the US tests DNA from evidence samples collected many decades ago, before DNA fingerprinting existed, and is often successful, even on incorrectly collected and stored samples. So there would be no valid scientific reason not to try a retest even on a degraded sample.

Why is Pornthip reported as casting doubt on the whole concept? Hopefully this is merely a result of the inaccurate reporting that makes all attention to anything said ouside the court room a waste of time...She must know as head of the Forensics institute that properly stored DNA lasts indefinitely, and she must know as Head, that her Institute stores DNA correctly.

Concur.

The Khunying has forever lost all credibility. Her insistence that the bomb detectors were based on scientific principles demolished her credibility for good.

No matter how much the Royal Thai Police hate her, no matter how reviled she is by bent cops who fear her, she ruined her own credibility permanently with her incredible statements insisting that the bomb detectors were legit instruments.

Absolutely.

The red children here excuse themselves by calling all farang Junta lovers. We are anything but : it's true they are infinitely better than the last Parliament of dirty cronies, but they are far from a civilised government.

Remember Prayuth too went on public record saying the detectors worked. A fact I remember every time he makes some sweeping statement.

The world spotlight has shone into the rank and file of the Thai police and they have been caught with their pants round their ankles. It would invoke a big review and overhaul of the system in a Western country. They will just say "Stop asking me about it" here.

[englishoak]

Oh very nice, now we have Andy Hall on the BBC

More coverage and RTP debarcle please... lets see this farce and authorities that have been complicit to double murders totally exposed for the corrupt lying scum they are.

[eddie61]

The Thai "justice" system revealed in all its naked glory, in front of the world's media.

I haven't had this big a hard-on for a long time!

[Linky]

Another update from the sky news guy outside the court room. the first video down.

All Credit to Heidi Anna. A Star in a very dark Sky.

https://www.facebook.com/heidi.a.zimmerman?hc_location=ufi

This is the 2nd facebook link i have tried to open from this thread and it tells me it cant be found as there may be a connection problem (no problem) or the page has been removed.

Im in malaysia if that makes any difference.

[wabothai]

The case will be thrown due to lack of sufficient evidence. No face lost but a few. Mai pen rai.

The boys go free and I hope they sue.

At least my view.

[Jim walker]

Feel so sorry for the families that have come all this way to see the trial and find justice for their murdered children and by now they must know it will never happen in Thailand and when the parents travel home they will be none the wiser what happened to their kids on that fateful night on the beach, and most of the reports on UK TV are just making the Thai Police look like bungling idiots from a comedy farce if it was not such a serious crime trial, and the outcome will be Guilty with a life sentence to the two chosen ones then after a few months in prison they can be quietly deported and the case closed and finished with forever another mystery murder solved by the astute RTP.

[loonodingle]

Another update from the sky news guy outside the court room. the first video down.

All Credit to Heidi Anna. A Star in a very dark Sky.

https://www.facebook.com/heidi.a.zimmerman?hc_location=ufi

This is the 2nd facebook link i have tried to open from this thread and it tells me it cant be found as there may be a connection problem (no problem) or the page has been removed.

Im in malaysia if that makes any difference.

Hmmm not sure.

You can search her up in the top of the tool bar. write Heidi Anna and you should find this screen shot.

[Rykbanlor]

Another update from the sky news guy outside the court room. the first video down.

All Credit to Heidi Anna. A Star in a very dark Sky.

https://www.facebook.com/heidi.a.zimmerman?hc_location=ufi

This is the 2nd facebook link i have tried to open from this thread and it tells me it cant be found as there may be a connection problem (no problem) or the page has been removed.

Im in malaysia if that makes any difference.

works in Thailand, it's just a sky reporter making statements that have already been posted in print from twitter or news sources across the last pages of this thread - mainly about the families of the deceased etc, nothing new for the moment.

[StealthEnergiser]