Koh Tao: Trial opens for 2 accused of killing British tourists

[rockingrobin]

David's Missing Mobile Phone Explained.

Almost from day one there has been confusion about the missing Mobile Phone. At first it was reported by the media that it was Hannah's Mobile Phone, which it was not. I really don't know why it was reported this way by the person in charge. Was he misinformed? Was it media reported incorrectly? Was it lost in the translation? Was it just a mistake he made? But either way he had no reason to lie as they did have a missing Mobile Phone in their possession at that time, which is stated to belong to David Miller.

As reported by the media, on October 7th, or thereabouts, a Senior Police Official was on the evening news to explain exactly how they found David Miller's Mobile Phone. He said they knew quickly it was missing from the body from information gained by David's Friends and Relatives. (Which may be a very good indication he did not lose it earlier, because if he did he did not tell any of his friends who police contacted). But at that time this was not reported to the press.

Later, after the two suspects were arrested and had confessed to this crime, the police asked them about David Miller's Mobile Phone. One of the suspects (not named) said he left it with a friend. When the police later questioned that friend, he led them to the Mobile Phone. The friend said he had grave doubts about this Mobile Phone, and where it really came from, so he threw it away behind his living quarters.

If this is true then I am pretty sure it will all come out in court as this is damning evidence. Especially if this witness is their friend. We will just have to wait and see.

This is your BIG shocker?

Who was the senior police office mentioned on 7th October because a week earlier (2 weeks after the murders) this was said by General Kiattipong Kaosam-ang:

"There is no doubt the murder of Miss Witheridge was sexually motivated because none of her belongings or those of the English man were missing,"

and yet your man says they knew quickly that phone was missing.

And why would someone who thought a phone was dodgy only get rid of it behind their house. iffy

"But at that time this was not reported to the press."

Please note this last line Paragraph 2 says they didn't want the Media to know about this then. It is not uncommon for Police in any country to keep news away from the press when conducting an ongoing investigation. Why tell everyone you are looking for a Mobile Phone stolen from David Miller and believe the culprit may have stole it, when he may still have it on his person and you can catch him Red Handed with it?

If you were his Friend, as the Media Reported, and heard about the double murders, and that the friend who gave you this Mobile Phone has just been arrested and brought in for questioning, what would you do with it? Keep it, and now maybe become a suspect in this murder and accused as the one who stole it, if caught with it? Turn it over to the Police and still maybe be considered a suspect for just having it? Or wipe off your finger prints and get rid of it?

I am not claiming this Media Report is true as it has not been proven yet. But I would sure know what I would do if I was in this situation and this was true. .

GB

The media was reporting early in the investigation about finding a mobile phone with blond hair snagged in it, firstly in Davids luggage and during the raid where the gun and grenade was found.

It would appear that some of these reports are incorrect , but there was more phones than in an apple workshop

[GOLDBUGGY]

David's Missing Mobile Phone Explained.

Almost from day one there has been confusion about the missing Mobile Phone. At first it was reported by the media that it was Hannah's Mobile Phone, which it was not. I really don't know why it was reported this way by the person in charge. Was he misinformed? Was it media reported incorrectly? Was it lost in the translation? Was it just a mistake he made? But either way he had no reason to lie as they did have a missing Mobile Phone in their possession at that time, which is stated to belong to David Miller.

As reported by the media, on October 7th, or thereabouts, a Senior Police Official was on the evening news to explain exactly how they found David Miller's Mobile Phone. He said they knew quickly it was missing from the body from information gained by David's Friends and Relatives. (Which may be a very good indication he did not lose it earlier, because if he did he did not tell any of his friends who police contacted). But at that time this was not reported to the press.

Later, after the two suspects were arrested and had confessed to this crime, the police asked them about David Miller's Mobile Phone. One of the suspects (not named) said he left it with a friend. When the police later questioned that friend, he led them to the Mobile Phone. The friend said he had grave doubts about this Mobile Phone, and where it really came from, so he threw it away behind his living quarters.

If this is true then I am pretty sure it will all come out in court as this is damning evidence. Especially if this witness is their friend. We will just have to wait and see.

This is your BIG shocker?

Who was the senior police office mentioned on 7th October because a week earlier (2 weeks after the murders) this was said by General Kiattipong Kaosam-ang:

"There is no doubt the murder of Miss Witheridge was sexually motivated because none of her belongings or those of the English man were missing,"

and yet your man says they knew quickly that phone was missing.

And why would someone who thought a phone was dodgy only get rid of it behind their house. iffy

"But at that time this was not reported to the press."

Please note this last line Paragraph 2 says they didn't want the Media to know about this then. It is not uncommon for Police in any country to keep news away from the press when conducting an ongoing investigation. Why tell everyone you are looking for a Mobile Phone stolen from David Miller and believe the culprit may have stole it, when he may still have it on his person and you can catch him Red Handed with it?

If you were his Friend, as the Media Reported, and heard about the double murders, and that the friend who gave you this Mobile Phone has just been arrested and brought in for questioning, what would you do with it? Keep it, and now maybe become a suspect in this murder and accused as the one who stole it, if caught with it? Turn it over to the Police and still maybe be considered a suspect for just having it? Or wipe off your finger prints and get rid of it?

I am not claiming this Media Report is true as it has not been proven yet. But I would sure know what I would do if I was in this situation and this was true. .

GB

The media was reporting early in the investigation about finding a mobile phone with blond hair snagged in it, firstly in Davids luggage and during the raid where the gun and grenade was found.

It would appear that some of these reports are incorrect , but there was more phones than in an apple workshop

Then link that like it did.

[GOLDBUGGY]

David's Missing Mobile Phone Explained.

Almost from day one there has been confusion about the missing Mobile Phone. At first it was reported by the media that it was Hannah's Mobile Phone, which it was not. I really don't know why it was reported this way by the person in charge. Was he misinformed? Was it media reported incorrectly? Was it lost in the translation? Was it just a mistake he made? But either way he had no reason to lie as they did have a missing Mobile Phone in their possession at that time, which is stated to belong to David Miller.

As reported by the media, on October 7th, or thereabouts, a Senior Police Official was on the evening news to explain exactly how they found David Miller's Mobile Phone. He said they knew quickly it was missing from the body from information gained by David's Friends and Relatives. (Which may be a very good indication he did not lose it earlier, because if he did he did not tell any of his friends who police contacted). But at that time this was not reported to the press.

Later, after the two suspects were arrested and had confessed to this crime, the police asked them about David Miller's Mobile Phone. One of the suspects (not named) said he left it with a friend. When the police later questioned that friend, he led them to the Mobile Phone. The friend said he had grave doubts about this Mobile Phone, and where it really came from, so he threw it away behind his living quarters.

If this is true then I am pretty sure it will all come out in court as this is damning evidence. Especially if this witness is their friend. We will just have to wait and see.

This is your BIG shocker?

Who was the senior police office mentioned on 7th October because a week earlier (2 weeks after the murders) this was said by General Kiattipong Kaosam-ang:

"There is no doubt the murder of Miss Witheridge was sexually motivated because none of her belongings or those of the English man were missing,"

and yet your man says they knew quickly that phone was missing.

And why would someone who thought a phone was dodgy only get rid of it behind their house. iffy

"But at that time this was not reported to the press."

Please note this last line Paragraph 2 says they didn't want the Media to know about this then. It is not uncommon for Police in any country to keep news away from the press when conducting an ongoing investigation. Why tell everyone you are looking for a Mobile Phone stolen from David Miller and believe the culprit may have stole it, when he may still have it on his person and you can catch him Red Handed with it?

If you were his Friend, as the Media Reported, and heard about the double murders, and that the friend who gave you this Mobile Phone has just been arrested and brought in for questioning, what would you do with it? Keep it, and now maybe become a suspect in this murder and accused as the one who stole it, if caught with it? Turn it over to the Police and still maybe be considered a suspect for just having it? Or wipe off your finger prints and get rid of it?

I am not claiming this Media Report is true as it has not been proven yet. But I would sure know what I would do if I was in this situation and this was true. .

GB

The media was reporting early in the investigation about finding a mobile phone with blond hair snagged in it, firstly in Davids luggage and during the raid where the gun and grenade was found.

It would appear that some of these reports are incorrect , but there was more phones than in an apple workshop

Then Link those Media Reports like I did.

[fish fingers]

The 8 hour DNA result was ridiculous. I hope the Defence make as much out of this as possible.

Pretty sure Sean Mcanna knows alot more than the story he gave everyone. Some of the things he said about David, its like he was there and witnessed the killings.

BTW out of interest, who's blood was on his guitar?

Edited July 13, 2015 by fish fingers

[JLCrab]

I hope not but:

If the RTP knew their investigation and arrests were inaccurate would they send the bodies back to the UK without either trying to remove DNA with either removal of body parts or oxygen bleaching (no idea if this works on a body) of the bodies …. or is this too forward looking even for them.

Oh we had to remove the body parts for the DNA testing!

I rather feel that the UK autopsy will state the bodies were in a condition that would not allow foreign DNA to be collected …. for reasons stated …. I truly hope not!

Is it likely that Mike Moulden will be able to testify or will the judge rule his testimony inadmissible …. not known as an expert by the Thai court whatever his CV states. Even if it was tried to be shown that Hannah died from gun shot wounds.

And why would a Thai court allow the defence to offer evidence from another countries persons?

I sadly feel that what ever the defence states or tries to introduce as evidence it is a lost cause ….. not to say give up (of course not keep trying to find the truth) …. but!

Mr. Moulden served for 5 years (2006-2011) as a forensics expert with the United Nations (UN) of which Thailand is a Member State.

Edited July 13, 2015 by JLCrab

[catsanddogs]

The 8 hour DNA result was ridiculous. I hope the Defence make as much out of this as possible.

Pretty sure Sean Mcanna knows alot more than the story he gave everyone. Some of the things he said about David, its like he was there and witnessed the killings.

BTW out of interest, who's blood was on his guitar?

BTW out of interest, who's blood was on his guitar?

Seems the splattered blood on McAnna's guitar is unimportant. Strange that. Wouldn't any half wit want to DNA test that on first sight considering the violent death of his so called (bro) friend?

[smedly]

TBH Mr McKenna's silence is quite deafening - I think he is a very important cog and the fact that he has chosen to stay silent even in the uk away from intimidation in Thailand seems that he knows something and might even been involved, he should at least be interviewed, he may not have murdered anyone but may have been there at some point, his nightmares will stop if he comes forward and tells his story - innocent or not he needs to speak out,

McKenna - take a look at the pictures of this innocent lovely girl with her head battered to a pulp and reflect how you knew her before, I don't think you did it but you need to come clean even if you were slightly involved and are scared of facing charges - you won't but what a relief to you if you come clean

I have seen many horrors in my time but the pictures of this beautiful innocent young girl with her head battered to a pulp was pretty hard going - very sad indeed

[rockingrobin]

for GB

Here is one link , there are others if you wish to seek them out

http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/koh-tao-thailand-cctv-image-released-david-miller-hannah-witheridge-murder-suspect-1465640

Local Thai television has broadcast images of a bloodied pair of jeans that purportedly belonged to Miller as well as an iPhone that is thought to have belonged to one of the victims.

[loonodingle]

TBH Mr McKenna's silence is quite deafening - I think he is a very important cog and the fact that he has chosen to stay silent even in the uk away from intimidation in Thailand seems that he knows something and might even been involved, he should at least be interviewed, he may not have murdered anyone but may have been there at some point, his nightmares will stop if he comes forward and tells his story - innocent or not he needs to speak out,

McKenna - take a look at the pictures of this innocent lovely girl with her head battered to a pulp and reflect how you knew her before, I don't think you did it but you need to come clean even if you were slightly involved and are scared of facing charges - you won't but what a relief to you if you come clean

I have seen many horrors in my time but the pictures of this beautiful innocent young girl with her head battered to a pulp was pretty hard going - very sad indeed

his name is Sean McAnna. He is from Shotts near Glasgow and the blood was his we believe. He Went to Milan and lived there u till recently. You can find him under the Facebook name Sean Dilupo you will know if you have found him as he has a Nic McAnna that's his sister and a Anne McAnna that's his mother as his friends.

Personally I think he has knowledge of what happened and was shooed of the island as it was the only option left after he called the sky reporter Jonathan Samuels.

Let's be honest he was the only one naming the suspects and running away from them before they shut him up permanently which is how it plays out in most instances.

[steffi]

People were deducing from various photos that this was Nom Sod due to the way his arm appeared in this and many other photos.

for GB

Here is one link , there are others if you wish to seek them out

http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/koh-tao-thailand-cctv-image-released-david-miller-hannah-witheridge-murder-suspect-1465640

Local Thai television has broadcast images of a bloodied pair of jeans that purportedly belonged to Miller as well as an iPhone that is thought to have belonged to one of the victims.

[bunglebag]

Bunglebag I am interested to hear your interpretation of what the pathologist said during that interview in Oct 2014. I feel it was an extremely important statement and if indeed I miss understood what he was saying I would like to know. I have discussed the interview with a few Thai friends and they agree with my interpretation but I would honestly like to know what you believe he said.

minikev,

My Thai is pretty non-existant. I was basing my understanding on the english 'translation' that was given for it on various threads (and Bangkok Post maybe iirc) at the time.

If no fluent Thai speaker here contests your version then I shall give yours precedence and cease to consider that particular aspect of the possibly erroneous earlier translation, and apologies for previous mild upper case also!

I am not looking to misrepresent anything so do appreciate you bringing this misunderstanding to attention.

[bamukloy]

Yes that section of the interview with the doctor starts at 16.40 unfortunately its all in Thai but I remember some posters on here months ago mentioning that he was saying that the wounds on David were caused by a knife?

I believe it was shown to be likely that the wounds were caused by a fistblade, or whatever they are called. Fit inside your fist and have a very nasty one inch blade protruding out through your fingers.

Yes thanks DLang but did the doctor also say that? I'm aware the defense has a strong case to make on this with evidence that most of the wounds on David were caused by some sort of knife and not the Hoe, but I also thought the doctor in the vid mentioned a knife despite the fact that this is a direct contradiction to the prosecution case?

It is of course my opinion that it was also a knife and I'm sure the opinion of 99% of those who follow this case

Actually the original reports in the media mention a significant wound to the back of the head (from the hoe).

I dont think anyone is dismissing the other wounds.

Seems obvious to me. The hit from the hoe was the coward shot from behind. When that didnt do the job and David was fighting them off, one of the others came in with the fistblade.

That seems to be the M.O in all the cases we read here where its 2,3 or 4 on 1 farang.

[fish fingers]

what was with the son and the doctored CCTV images in Bangkok? Was that all set up to help his alibi?

I saw that on CSI LA but most of the comments were in thai

[DennisF]

On the Sean debate it is interesting that he was supposedly interviewed after his runner to Italy by a UK newspaper.

An interview that never got to see the light of day. Maybe because he said very little or maybe because the newspaper was

asked by the UK authorities not to print it yet. Who knows?

Also interesting is the emotional words Sean uses to describe his "friend" David yet just hours after David was brutally murdered

his "friend" Sean was hosting a pub crawl just a few hundred metres from where Davids body was found.

Whether Sean is "involved" or just a witness is anyones guess but it certainly appears that he has information that could help one side or the other.

[eliotness]

Just a thought people, if this case crashes and some pretty important people lose face in a big way, who do you think will be the victim of their revenge ? I would reckon the social media, so be careful what you wish for as it might come back to haunt us. Sometimes TVF can be informative, sometimes funny, sometimes serious and sometimes annoying, but heck, I would hate it to be severely limited or even blocked.

Everybody by now knows this case is a mega cock-up, just be careful how deep you rub the noses of the RTP and their backers in the pooh.

Just a thought !!!

[jdinasia]

what was with the son and the doctored CCTV images in Bangkok? Was that all set up to help his alibi?

I saw that on CSI LA but most of the comments were in thai

Fully reviewed by PBS in an hour long special. Their experts found no "doctoring"

[StealthEnergiser]

what was with the son and the doctored CCTV images in Bangkok? Was that all set up to help his alibi?

I saw that on CSI LA but most of the comments were in thai

this one

[minikev]

Bunglebag I am interested to hear your interpretation of what the pathologist said during that interview in Oct 2014. I feel it was an extremely important statement and if indeed I miss understood what he was saying I would like to know. I have discussed the interview with a few Thai friends and they agree with my interpretation but I would honestly like to know what you believe he said.

minikev,

My Thai is pretty non-existant. I was basing my understanding on the english 'translation' that was given for it on various threads (and Bangkok Post maybe iirc) at the time.

If no fluent Thai speaker here contests your version then I shall give yours precedence and cease to consider that particular aspect of the possibly erroneous earlier translation, and apologies for previous mild upper case also!

I am not looking to misrepresent anything so do appreciate you bringing this misunderstanding to attention.

Everything is up for debate and it is always possible for statements to be mistranslated. I believe I have stated correctly what he said but as we have seen throughout this case Thai can not be directly translated into English. It is impossible as some words in the Thai language do not exist in English and vise verse.

If anyone else has a translation I would be interested to hear it.

For me listening to this interview was the first time I started to believe it was possible the B2 maybe really involved. Now I realise that all of the evidence spoken about in this interview has been used up or simply not available and therefore cannot be contested. We are supposed to take the results alone as set in stone.

It cannot be accepted that no one can contest these results. How can it be that such important evidence can have been discarded lost or used up. As from my understanding any minute part of these tests could be tested again 1000 or more times. It is simply too convenient for the police that these are no longer available.

Surely there is protocol the testing recording and then keeping of critical evidence in such a case should be like clockwork, records and sample alike would have been secured and kept. Who was responsible for this?

[DennisF]

what was with the son and the doctored CCTV images in Bangkok? Was that all set up to help his alibi?

I saw that on CSI LA but most of the comments were in thai

this one

For many, myself included, this is 2 videos of the same person, despite the grainy images.

Watch the walking styles closely.

Unusual and they match perfectly. Just my opinion.

[StealthEnergiser]

what was with the son and the doctored CCTV images in Bangkok? Was that all set up to help his alibi?

I saw that on CSI LA but most of the comments were in thai

this one

For many, myself included, this is 2 videos of the same person, despite the grainy images.

Watch the walking styles closely.

Unusual and they match perfectly. Just my opinion.

What adds more to the suspicion is police announced they were looking for him after these first cctv images were released and he also got his hair cut very short before fronting the media

[bamukloy]

I see Sean Mcanna has changed his name. The guilty parties(IMO) The Island mafia were wanting to kill him, I wonder why? He should on the stand.

it wouldn't surprise me if he was involved and when things went too far he separated from his Thai island friends. Feeling guilty he started to tell people little hints about what really happened and that's when they came after him, to shut him up. It was either kill him or let him leave the island and keep his mouth shut, after all he was just as guilty as the other two or three.

Just a guess ....

I was following his facebook that night as it was happening, pretty much a week to the hour after the murders. He was shitting himself and rightly so. Personally I believe that if he hadn't got into that shop and made the facebook post with photo then he may well have died that night and the case would have been much easier to 'close' then.

Just a feeling but I do feel he knows more than he has said, either as a witness or through the grapevine.

His posts that night were:

'Owner of ac bar did it'

and

'Thai mafia are trying to kill me. please help me. Sky news phone me'

Notice that one is present tense and one is past tense. He tried to say later that the 'did it' one was in relation to his own impending death at their hands but why past tense and the other present?

And prior to the hanging threat his room got ransacked over within days of the murder. he implied he knew/could guess who it was. I wonder what they were looking for

the fistblade on the really long chain that he was pictured wearing?

[JLCrab]

what was with the son and the doctored CCTV images in Bangkok? Was that all set up to help his alibi?

I saw that on CSI LA but most of the comments were in thai

< snip >

For many, myself included, this is 2 videos of the same person, despite the grainy images.

Watch the walking styles closely.

Unusual and they match perfectly. Just my opinion.

Yes -- compare the walking style:

[steffi]

That was said to be a lighter.

[bristolgeoff]

it seems this case was a disaster from the start.lost dna etc etc.

[spidermike007]

It was three weeks between the time the crime took place and the time these two patsies were arrested. They were playing football when arrested. Would two guilty guys, who committed a crime like this, stay on Dark Tao? I do not think so. Most would flee. Perhaps further proof of their innocence?

[Matthew2027]

I feel these two guys are as innocent of this crime as we all are.

[GOLDBUGGY]

People were deducing from various photos that this was Nom Sod due to the way his arm appeared in this and many other photos.

for GB

Here is one link , there are others if you wish to seek them out

http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/koh-tao-thailand-cctv-image-released-david-miller-hannah-witheridge-murder-suspect-1465640

Local Thai television has broadcast images of a bloodied pair of jeans that purportedly belonged to Miller as well as an iPhone that is thought to have belonged to one of the victims.

Definition of the word "purportedly"

-alleged

-supposed

-rumored

Definition of rumor

-be circulated as an unverified account.

So

Bloodied pair of jeans "rumored" to belong to Miller.

[steffi]

Please be more selective about what you reply to.

You should have replied to an earlier message if you wanted to make that point.

People were deducing from various photos that this was Nom Sod due to the way his arm appeared in this and many other photos.

for GB

Here is one link , there are others if you wish to seek them out

http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/koh-tao-thailand-cctv-image-released-david-miller-hannah-witheridge-murder-suspect-1465640

Local Thai television has broadcast images of a bloodied pair of jeans that purportedly belonged to Miller as well as an iPhone that is thought to have belonged to one of the victims.

Definition of the word "purportedly"

-alleged

-supposed

-rumored

Definition of rumor

-be circulated as an unverified account.

So

Bloodied pair of jeans "rumored" to belong to Miller.

[GOLDBUGGY]

It was three weeks between the time the crime took place and the time these two patsies were arrested. They were playing football when arrested. Would two guilty guys, who committed a crime like this, stay on Dark Tao? I do not think so. Most would flee. Perhaps further proof of their innocence?

This News Media Reported that these 2 accused were not on the Island when they were arrested. They said they were arrested on the Mainland in Thailand but did not use the words "fleeing" and never said a word about them playing football. .

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/asia/thailand/11135629/Burmese-man-confesses-to-murder-of-British-backpackers-Hannah-Witheridge-and-David-Miller.html

[biplanebluey]

I'm confused - the heading is the 'The Trial is About to Collapse' , and then at the end of the piece it says : 'The trial is due to last until September, with a verdict expected in October.' ???

I thought the same thing.Who started this "collapsed court" saga ? Just another example of jounalistic sensationalism