Koh Tao: Trial opens for 2 accused of killing British tourists

[Briggsy]

Seems the police are filibustering the trial to prevent the defence getting any cross examination in.

[StealthEnergiser]

[stephenterry]

"Out for a jog" How can you say this!

Unless you can say that you have some experience of this place you simply have no idea how things work here.

No no, topless joggers at 4:30am, completely normal. I think somebody's grey matter is out for a jog.

as is. permitting this farce of a trial to continue. Or are all brains in dick?

[Basil B]

Can this be verified or do we just have their say so again?

Yes, it would be interesting to see if actual phone records were obtained...

Maybe have the phone company representative to testify they are a true and accurate documents.

But there again only proves his phone was in Bangkok.

Oh Boy... the Tweet says it all, the prosecutions case is based on proving there was nobody else left on the Island to do it...

[stephenterry]

Seems the police are filibustering the trial to prevent the defence getting any cross examination in.

imo about time the defence played hardball. If it means a confrontation then go for it.

[fish fingers]

Are they going to bring Sean back to tell his side of the story? Seeing as it was his bestest friend who was murdered? And he, oddly ran away and is now living in Italy.

I don't think he's in Italy now

Yup, conveniently fell asleep that evening but seems to know that his best mate put up a fight protecting Hannah, backtracks, says who did it, backtracks again, visible wounds which no one has corroborated his alibi for, has altercation with mafia, bloody guitar shown to anyone who wants to take a pic, hides out in Italy

[Thaidream]

Some missing information that must be presented- what was going on in the bar where the deceased spent their last night. Who was involved? Surely, one witness has that information especially if there was a party. In addition, what would be the motive for the B2 to have killed the couple? Depending on what was going on the bar- there may be a motive found there.

[Basil B]

Are they going to bring Sean back to tell his side of the story? Seeing as it was his bestest friend who was murdered? And he, oddly ran away and is now living in Italy.

I don't think he's in Italy now

Yup, conveniently fell asleep that evening but seems to know that his best mate put up a fight protecting Hannah, backtracks, says who did it, backtracks again, visible wounds which no one has corroborated his alibi for, has altercation with mafia, bloody guitar shown to anyone who wants to take a pic, hides out in Italy

Was not Mom's gran in 7/11 buying a bottle of tomato sauce shortly before the guitar was found...

[Happy Grumpy]

I'm no trial lawyer but I would have thought that CCTV from the last place both victims (the bar) were seen together would be essential.

In the video he mentioned that this is the video entered as evidence by the prosecution which raises a couple of questions :

Do they have any CCTV in the 'AC' bar ?

Have they ever had any CCTV in this bar ?

If not then, why not ?

Things would be a lot clearer if we could see what happened in the run up to the incident.

I believe that the police asked to see the CCTV footage, but the owner refused, saying that it was his own personal property! Possibly, they said "We would like to see the CCTV footage for last night, but you don't have to show us as it's your own personal property. We could get a subpoena for it but that would take time (Nudge nudge, wink wink!)"

So somehow, I think that if recent events are anything to go by, it will be "lost", or "missing", or "all used up" or "taped over by mistake". Or to put it another way - GONE!

Ref: The CCTV.

CSI LA had photos that were taken prior to the event that showed the AC Bar having CCTV cameras on the beach side facing the beach.

Even to think that such an establishment would not would be laughable, especially when there are numerous bar owning families almost at loggerheads with each other.

[StealthEnergiser]

Myanmar accused seen on Thai beach where Brits were murdered

KOH SAMUI, Thailand (AFP) - Two Myanmar nationals accused of killing a pair of British holidaymakers in Thailand were seen on CCTV playing guitar near the crime scene, a court heard Wednesday, as their lawyer decried a lack of retestable DNA evidence to bolster the defence case.

Migrant workers Zaw Lin and Win Zaw Tun are on trial for the murder of 24-year-old David Miller and the rape and murder of Hannah Witheridge, 23, on Koh Tao island in September.

Both have pleaded not guilty and face the death penalty if convicted over a case which damaged Thailand’s reputation as a tourist haven and saw the police accused of bungling the investigation.

http://www.straitstimes.com/asia/se-asia/myanmar-accused-seen-on-thai-beach-where-brits-were-murdered

[fxe1200]

Can this be verified or do we just have their say so again?

Yes, it would be interesting to see if actual phone records were obtained...

Maybe have the phone company representative to testify they are a true and accurate documents.

But there again only proves his phone was in Bangkok.

Oh Boy... the Tweet says it all, the prosecutions case is based on proving there was nobody else left on the Island to do it...

Phone records are being deleted after a while, I do not know about Thailand, in Germany they are held for six months. If the prosecution could verify the phone records with an actual digital and a hard copy of all his calls during that time, including the time stamp, and to whom, testified by a witness, then I believe that Nomsod has nothing to do with it. But I suppose, they cannot come up with this, as the data might have been lost or accidently deleted or whatever what else...

[stephenterry]

Myanmar accused seen on Thai beach where Brits were murdered

KOH SAMUI, Thailand (AFP) - Two Myanmar nationals accused of killing a pair of British holidaymakers in Thailand were seen on CCTV playing guitar near the crime scene, a court heard Wednesday, as their lawyer decried a lack of retestable DNA evidence to bolster the defence case.

Migrant workers Zaw Lin and Win Zaw Tun are on trial for the murder of 24-year-old David Miller and the rape and murder of Hannah Witheridge, 23, on Koh Tao island in September.

Both have pleaded not guilty and face the death penalty if convicted over a case which damaged Thailand’s reputation as a tourist haven and saw the police accused of bungling the investigation.

http://www.straitstimes.com/asia/se-asia/myanmar-accused-seen-on-thai-beach-where-brits-were-murdered

The defence don't have to bolster their case, just destroy the prosecution. It's really easy to demand that the DNA evidence should be inadmissible. Have they got balls?

[silverado]

"Out for a jog" How can you say this!

Unless you can say that you have some experience of this place you simply have no idea how things work here.

No no, topless joggers at 4:30am, completely normal. I think somebody's grey matter is out for a jog.

yes yes, bare feet on the asphalt... it should be the last kenian winner of Pat. marathon on training.

[Rykbanlor]

Can this be verified or do we just have their say so again?

Yes, it would be interesting to see if actual phone records were obtained...

Maybe have the phone company representative to testify they are a true and accurate documents.

But there again only proves his phone was in Bangkok.

Oh Boy... the Tweet says it all, the prosecutions case is based on proving there was nobody else left on the Island to do it...

Yes, it seems so far the prosecution case is based on: Plod says this, Plod says that.

So they say they have irrefutable DNA evidence. Well, had. Or still have? Top Cop Somyot claims a misunderstanding. So presumably at some point this DNA will show up to be re-tested? No apparently only the Hoe and some other sundries.

Now Plod says they have phone records, fair enough, sounds good, but as you say Basil, from this one tweet we are only told that he says this. Are we going to recieve some actual proof? Maybe the tweet is brief, and we will find out that they do have records, or maybe not. One wonders if Police testimony without black and white proof to corroborate said testimonies is percieved as fair play by the judge. We wait with bated breath.

[StealthEnergiser]

Thailand: CCTV Tracked Backpackers' Movements

Defence lawyers say they will be concentrating on DNA evidence, amid claims that police were incompetent and mishandled evidence.

Police claimed that Zaw Lin and Win Zaw Htun, both 22, had confessed to the killings, but both later retracted their statements and said they had been tortured into making them.

http://news.sky.com/story/1523281/thailand-cctv-tracked-backpackers-movements

[Psychic]

I ask this sincerely as, to the best of my knowledge, I have never seen it mentioned anywhere: was there, or is there, an investigation into the defendants claim that they were tortured?

It might be naive of me but I would expect that in a high profile murder case such as this that if such an important piece of evidence such as a confession were abrogated by a retraction based on the allegation that it was obtained by torture that the highest authorities in the land would set up an indepepent tribunal to investigate.

A finding that the torture allegations were false would go a long way to helping the prosecution's case.

I know nothing of Thai law, except what I've read that the accused can retract a confession.

Although why this so is a mystery to me of it was legitimately obtained.

If the allegations are true then why wouldn't the defense insist on a tribunal to examine them before the trial as it would impugn the entire neutrality of the police investigation.

I can see a reason for denying this as it would needlessly delay trials when the torture allegations are unfounded. But, at the same time, what is the point of garnering a confession if it can be retracted?

As I said, I know next to nothing of Thai law but I find this aspect of the case completely confusing.

[BoristheBlade]

stephen Terry

"I find it difficult to believe that RTP and local police have put all this time and effort into setting the B2 up without some financial incentive. What's in it for them, in convicting the B2? To protect a fire-dancer?

Sorry, I don't buy it. "

i thought Mike's post offered up some real insight , and fire-dancers would certainly fit the bill ...

lets remember there was a big party at AC that night to celebrate the end of the football tournament . No doubt ,many different crews from the local bars and other islands were part of that party .

Using the old adage "never s..hit on your own doorstep " i can perfectly see that the local boss would do all he could to cover up this graphic murder , even if it had nothing what so ever to do with him and his businesses , other than that the party was at his place . He would go out of his way to avoid a root and branch investigation to his business operation.

The old man does not seem a pleasant person , but do not for one moment think that he is not a very bright spark indeed . You do not hold on to power in a place like KT without knowing all the moves . He has made a fortune over the years , and unlike some in my country that have fortunes thrust upon them , he has not squandered it ........ he has educated his kids to the highest level , he has used his wealth to gain influence in some very high places , he will have leant that just having a shed load of cash does not open all the doors for you , and that being part of the "real elite " requires an education that he was not allowed , but he has provided for his Son and heir.

who can remember back early on the AC bar being raided , and narcotics being found ? what of that ..... clearly stamped on pretty hard , and no doubt put down to an employee... but in those early days the heat was on , and even for the old man it seemed a scary place to be . for all that he had gained could crumble around him because of the callous actions of some drunk / high party goers s ..hiting on his doorstep .

so sure the panic button got hit , and the smoke and mirrors started .... self preservation is a very human instinct .

Okay, you have an opinion. I don't think for one moment the headman would be concerned about any investigation into his 'business' - that's all been paid for. There's a party - so what? Why would he see the need to protect fire-dancers? And how can he cover it up - there's two dead bodies on the beach?

My point is what I've written. What's in it for anyone to set up the B2? Think about that. Why are the B2 so much more special (to the Headman) than fire dancers?

Agreed, I can see why the fire-dancers might be viewed as possible suspects, but as Stephen notes, why would someone with the power and influence go to these incredible lengths to protect the guys. If it is a cover-up, I am sure there is a firmer connection between the culprits and the up-coverers than just being some loosely affiliated drifters that are chummy with them and perform at their bars.

There is no way the Prime Minister , Chief of Police , the British Prime Minister and any other high ranking official gets involved to save a fire eater or the like.

After reading through today's proceedings in court, I am calling bull sh!t.

This is one big, big cover up, which is going very, very wrong. This is a car crash of a set up and two of the above non Thai officials will, and won't loose face!

I again deeply worry for the two scapegoats.

The up coming long court break will be a perfect opportunity for certain authorities to bring silence once and for all.

[stephenterry]

I'll probably suffer a heart attack before this trial is over. All this pussyfooting about by the defence crying foul when they should be contesting the rtp at every turn.

[silverado]

Myanmar accused seen on Thai beach where Brits were murdered

KOH SAMUI, Thailand (AFP) - Two Myanmar nationals accused of killing a pair of British holidaymakers in Thailand were seen on CCTV playing guitar near the crime scene, a court heard Wednesday, as their lawyer decried a lack of retestable DNA evidence to bolster the defence case.

Migrant workers Zaw Lin and Win Zaw Tun are on trial for the murder of 24-year-old David Miller and the rape and murder of Hannah Witheridge, 23, on Koh Tao island in September.

Both have pleaded not guilty and face the death penalty if convicted over a case which damaged Thailand’s reputation as a tourist haven and saw the police accused of bungling the investigation.

http://www.straitstimes.com/asia/se-asia/myanmar-accused-seen-on-thai-beach-where-brits-were-murdered

The defence don't have to bolster their case, just destroy the prosecution. It's really easy to demand that the DNA evidence should be inadmissible. Have they got balls?

i knew they were not seen ... I knew a witness had only heard some people playing guitar and singing western songs...

[catsanddogs]

I'll probably suffer a heart attack before this trial is over. All this pussyfooting about by the defence crying foul when they should be contesting the rtp at every turn.

Sorry ST but your post made me chuckle. Look after your heart. At least it's in the right place. Hopefully the defence are still letting the prosecution dig their gigantic hole before they pipe up and show their balls.

[silverado]

Can this be verified or do we just have their say so again?

Yes, it would be interesting to see if actual phone records were obtained...

Maybe have the phone company representative to testify they are a true and accurate documents.

But there again only proves his phone was in Bangkok.

Oh Boy... the Tweet says it all, the prosecutions case is based on proving there was nobody else left on the Island to do it...

the call's time is going to be "lost" or "deleted"... or at least let's say 10 or 11 o'clock .. this should be agreed by the judges although Nomsod could flee to bangkok very early in the morning.... although dad and uncle could not reach him in the same morning...

[Rykbanlor]

I ask this sincerely as, to the best of my knowledge, I have never seen it mentioned anywhere: was there, or is there, an investigation into the defendants claim that they were tortured?

It might be naive of me but I would expect that in a high profile murder case such as this that if such an important piece of evidence such as a confession were abrogated by a retraction based on the allegation that it was obtained by torture that the highest authorities in the land would set up an indepepent tribunal to investigate.

A finding that the torture allegations were false would go a long way to helping the prosecution's case.

I know nothing of Thai law, except what I've read that the accused can retract a confession.

Although why this so is a mystery to me of it was legitimately obtained.

If the allegations are true then why wouldn't the defense insist on a tribunal to examine them before the trial as it would impugn the entire neutrality of the police investigation.

I can see a reason for denying this as it would needlessly delay trials when the torture allegations are unfounded. But, at the same time, what is the point of garnering a confession if it can be retracted?

As I said, I know next to nothing of Thai law but I find this aspect of the case completely confusing.

Good questions, the case has already been a loooong time coming.

The police were summoned by the Human rights 3 or 4 times to contest the allegations. They didn't show up on any of those occasions.

That says it all really.

I think we are all waiting for the defence to get their chance at addressing some of these contentious issues in court.

[oldsailor35]

See those boats in the background? I bet Andy has... It would be easy for the cops to identify those vessels and talk to everyone on board because it is vital.

The photo isn't showing up in my reply, but what is a non-cop (Mon) doing standing inside the crime scene with the police? Seems like a significant irregularity, no?

YES! I too was wondering about him. Looks as though he is almost assisting or controlling the cops. However i do wonder exactly who he is representing here.

[StealthEnergiser]

Four days of trial and not a single bit of evidence has been shown by the media as to why they should be in jail.

[Rykbanlor]

See those boats in the background? I bet Andy has... It would be easy for the cops to identify those vessels and talk to everyone on board because it is vital.

The photo isn't showing up in my reply, but what is a non-cop (Mon) doing standing inside the crime scene with the police? Seems like a significant irregularity, no?

YES! I too was wondering about him. Looks as though he is almost assisting or controlling the cops. However i do wonder exactly who he is representing here.

Do you have 5685 posts from posting the same 5 posts multiple times? hahaha. Just joshing.

[Happy Grumpy]

Now Plod says they have phone records, fair enough, sounds good, but as you say Basil, from this one tweet we are only told that he says this. Are we going to recieve some actual proof? Maybe the tweet is brief, and we will find out that they do have records, or maybe not. One wonders if Police testimony without black and white proof to corroborate said testimonies is percieved as fair play by the judge. We wait with bated breath.

Sorry, but only the B2 are on trial.

Not Nomsod or anybody else.

Phone records of where Nomsod was at the time of the crime matters not a jot to the prosecution or defense of the B2 in this trial.

It may matter in reality, as he was quite likely involved in some manner, but it is the B2 being tried in this court, not him.

[Whyamiandwhatamidoinghere]

Is it soup yet?

[Rykbanlor]

Now Plod says they have phone records, fair enough, sounds good, but as you say Basil, from this one tweet we are only told that he says this. Are we going to recieve some actual proof? Maybe the tweet is brief, and we will find out that they do have records, or maybe not. One wonders if Police testimony without black and white proof to corroborate said testimonies is percieved as fair play by the judge. We wait with bated breath.

Sorry, but only the B2 are on trial.

Not Nomsod or anybody else.

Phone records of where Nomsod was at the time of the crime matters not a jot to the prosecution or defense of the B2 in this trial.

It may matter in reality, as he was quite likely involved in some manner, but it is the B2 being tried in this court, not him.

Yes, true enough. I wonder why they brought it up though.

EDIT: I fear the RTP protesteth too much.

[IslandLover]

Chetzee

You do realise that Nom Sod was at Bangkok University.

You do realise that you simply stay at school till M. 6 and then pay the fees. That is it.

Bangkok Uni is full of the wastrel kids of Thailand's wealthy. A degree from there if Nom Sod ever gets it is fairly worthless even in Thailand.

I don't think you can claim Mr. Tuvichien has educated his kids "to the highest levels". However, if CSI LA is to be believed he has encouraged his son to act like a jao-por or godfather.

Nomsod was studying hotel management from what I've read. Hardly an academic subject.

[Happy Grumpy]

I suppose they're going through the chronology of their investigation.