Koh Tao: Trial opens for 2 accused of killing British tourists

[silverado]

Is it soup yet?

yess, (smelling) fish(y) soup again and again and again

[oldsailor35]

See those boats in the background? I bet Andy has... It would be easy for the cops to identify those vessels and talk to everyone on board because it is vital.

The photo isn't showing up in my reply, but what is a non-cop (Mon) doing standing inside the crime scene with the police? Seems like a significant irregularity, no?

YES! I too was wondering about him. Looks as though he is almost assisting or controlling the cops. However i do wonder exactly who he is representing here.

Do you have 5685 posts from posting the same 5 posts multiple times? hahaha. Just joshing.

Sorry all, but shit happens, computer problem/

[Whyamiandwhatamidoinghere]

The value of freedom of speech? Priceless.. Although, freedom of speech is limited and suppressed in Thai Visa Forum. People still find the courage to speak their minds. Sometimes outrageous ideas and theories but I believe, in this case, members have been generally united by this tragedy. There are a few who like to poke a dead man in his eye but I think it's an attempt to engage and challenge, to broaden the conversation.

[bunglebag]

How come the certain posters are still posting huge long-winded posts related to details of the crime scene, which they keep screaming is speculation or fact or proven or disproven, yet on the very simple topic of why all the translators have been scared off and no-one is willing to work the case they remain deafeningly silent?

GB, do you maybe have a few paragraphs to spare on this point? Or maybe this is the machinations of the evil Andy Hall at work, twisting the facts and tweeting the lies?

I guess everyone has to earn pennies somehow.

From now on I am going to seriously limit my replies to the obvious repeated attempts to derail and send the thread down irrelevant paths. Everyone here knows those in question and they are no longer going to waste my time for one. I also believe another purpose is to draw people in the opposing camp in to arguments so they can try and get them a ban from this thread, particularly handy with the trial recommencing today.

Over the last couple of days I've started replying to many of these posts, finding links to back things up etc. only to then think 'what's the point - it's just feeding the trolls and it's what they want' and then swiftly abandon my reply. I urge others with similar thoughts to sometimes do the same and not get drawn in, or at least not waste too much time on them.

And one very active poster in particular has shown through constant questions / statements / errors, based on either suitable outdated or erroneous info (or sometimes just uneducated assumptions), that they seem to lack any knowledge as to how the 'investigation' unfolded originally and as they had never even heard of Koh Tao before this I hazard a guess they don't live in Thailand or even know much about how some things in Thailand work, yet here they are arguing over and over about anything and everything with many long term residents who DO have first hand experience.

To me, the repetitive deflective nature of some posters has worn too thin to bother responding to much now. Their purpose has become clear over the course of this thread imo.

But I'll give a quick example. It was widely reported that in court a couple of weeks ago that Mr policeman testified that he was called to the scene at 6.30 am by a fellow officer (so 6.30am is actually the time the SECOND policeman arrived on the scene) yet one of our ever-present friends seems to have somehow morphed that into 'the bodies were found at 6.30am' even though the same person has been posting about how long it would take before the police were called after the first person (beach cleaner) found the bodies, who then called someone else (resort owner), who then faffed around for some time before calling the policeman #1, who then did who knows what before calling policeman #2 at 6.30am.

Now if the second policeman on the scene was called at 6.30 what time were the bodies found? Not 6.30. This person must know this yet they still post erroneous misleading info. Why? I presume to try to get people to waste time interacting / arguing with them.

And before they ask, here is a source:

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/jul/08/thai-police-officer-describes-scene-at-site-of-british-backpacker-killings

Peace

Edited July 22, 2015 by bunglebag

[minikev]

Second round!

Actually pretty much as predicted by all but the chosen few on here.

[Whyamiandwhatamidoinghere]

Channel 3 must be the only news station with a working camera and reporter.

[Rykbanlor]

How come the certain posters are still posting huge long-winded posts related to details of the crime scene, which they keep screaming is speculation or fact or proven or disproven, yet on the very simple topic of why all the translators have been scared off and no-one is willing to work the case they remain deafeningly silent?

GB, do you maybe have a few paragraphs to spare on this point? Or maybe this is the machinations of the evil Andy Hall at work, twisting the facts and tweeting the lies?

I guess everyone has to earn pennies somehow.

From now on I am going to seriously limit my replies to the obvious repeated attempts to derail and send the thread down irrelevant paths. Everyone here knows those in question and they are no longer going to waste my time for one. I also believe another purpose is to draw people in the opposing camp in to arguments so they can try and get them a ban from this thread, particularly handy with the trial recommencing today.

Over the last couple of days I've started replying to many of these posts, finding links to back things up etc. only to then think 'what's the point - it's just feeding the trolls and it's what they want' and then swiftly abandon my reply. I urge others with similar thoughts to sometimes do the same and not get drawn in, or at least not waste too much time on them.

And one very active poster in particular has shown through constant questions / statements / errors, based on either suitable outdated or erroneous info (or sometimes just uneducated assumptions), that they seem to lack any knowledge as to how the 'investigation' unfolded originally and as they had never even heard of Koh Tao before this I hazard a guess they don't live in Thailand or even know much about how some things in Thailand work, yet here they are arguing over and over about anything and everything with many long term residents who DO have first hand experience.

To me, the repetitive deflective nature of some posters has worn too thin to bother responding to much now. Their purpose has become clear over the course of this thread imo.

But I'll give a quick example. It was widely reported that in court a couple of weeks ago that Mr policeman testified that he was called to the scene at 6.30 am by a fellow officer (so 6.30am is actually the time the SECOND policeman arrived on the scene) yet one of our ever-present friends seems to have somehow morphed that into 'the bodies were found at 6.30am' even though the same person has been posting about how long it would take before the police were called after the first person (beach cleaner) found the bodies, who then called someone else (resort owner), who then faffed around for some time before calling the policeman #1, who then did who knows what before calling policeman #2 at 6.30am.

Now if the second policeman on the scene was called at 6.30 what time were the bodies found? Not 6.30. This person must know this yet they still post erroneous misleading info. Why? I presume to try to get people to waste time interacting / arguing with them.

And before they ask, here is a source:

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/jul/08/thai-police-officer-describes-scene-at-site-of-british-backpacker-killings

Peace

Word!

Good post Bunglebag - I was unaware of those times actually. Yes, one assumes that there must have been at least a half hour or a full hour from the discovery of the bodies.

[Whyamiandwhatamidoinghere]

Too much coverage might interfere with the telivised lottery drawings.

[silverado]

Now Plod says they have phone records, fair enough, sounds good, but as you say Basil, from this one tweet we are only told that he says this. Are we going to recieve some actual proof? Maybe the tweet is brief, and we will find out that they do have records, or maybe not. One wonders if Police testimony without black and white proof to corroborate said testimonies is percieved as fair play by the judge. We wait with bated breath.

Sorry, but only the B2 are on trial.

Not Nomsod or anybody else.

Phone records of where Nomsod was at the time of the crime matters not a jot to the prosecution or defense of the B2 in this trial.

It may matter in reality, as he was quite likely involved in some manner, but it is the B2 being tried in this court, not him.

Yes, true enough. I wonder why they brought it up though.

EDIT: I fear the RTP protesteth too much.

start to (try to) justify their perfect job maybe ? (Confessions of guilt) hum stop dreaming silverado...

[VINCENT2012]

dna is the key..............forget about all this bla bla thing

[englishoak]

No evidence then just the usual bs that frankly proves nothing about anything or anyone.

[stephenterry]

One thing to be aware of. The rtp will do whatever is necessary to derail the defence. And as this Mike who allegedly has good credibility has not responded to my questions. A troll perhaps? Any trick to deflect?

[minikev]

How come the certain posters are still posting huge long-winded posts related to details of the crime scene, which they keep screaming is speculation or fact or proven or disproven, yet on the very simple topic of why all the translators have been scared off and no-one is willing to work the case they remain deafeningly silent?

GB, do you maybe have a few paragraphs to spare on this point? Or maybe this is the machinations of the evil Andy Hall at work, twisting the facts and tweeting the lies?

I guess everyone has to earn pennies somehow.

From now on I am going to seriously limit my replies to the obvious repeated attempts to derail and send the thread down irrelevant paths. Everyone here knows those in question and they are no longer going to waste my time for one. I also believe another purpose is to draw people in the opposing camp in to arguments so they can try and get them a ban from this thread, particularly handy with the trial recommencing today.

Over the last couple of days I've started replying to many of these posts, finding links to back things up etc. only to then think 'what's the point - it's just feeding the trolls and it's what they want' and then swiftly abandon my reply. I urge others with similar thoughts to sometimes do the same and not get drawn in, or at least not waste too much time on them.

And one very active poster in particular has shown through constant questions / statements / errors, based on either suitable outdated or erroneous info (or sometimes just uneducated assumptions), that they seem to lack any knowledge as to how the 'investigation' unfolded originally and as they had never even heard of Koh Tao before this I hazard a guess they don't live in Thailand or even know much about how some things in Thailand work, yet here they are arguing over and over about anything and everything with many long term residents who DO have first hand experience.

To me, the repetitive deflective nature of some posters has worn too thin to bother responding to much now. Their purpose has become clear over the course of this thread imo.

But I'll give a quick example. It was widely reported that in court a couple of weeks ago that Mr policeman testified that he was called to the scene at 6.30 am by a fellow officer (so 6.30am is actually the time the SECOND policeman arrived on the scene) yet one of our ever-present friends seems to have somehow morphed that into 'the bodies were found at 6.30am' even though the same person has been posting about how long it would take before the police were called after the first person (beach cleaner) found the bodies, who then called someone else (resort owner), who then faffed around for some time before calling the policeman #1, who then did who knows what before calling policeman #2 at 6.30am.

Now if the second policeman on the scene was called at 6.30 what time were the bodies found? Not 6.30. This person must know this yet they still post erroneous misleading info. Why? I presume to try to get people to waste time interacting / arguing with them.

And before they ask, here is a source:

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/jul/08/thai-police-officer-describes-scene-at-site-of-british-backpacker-killings

Peace

When this particular poster started contributing almost all his information was about recent discussions and then all of a sudden he was posting about stuff early in the case. Bad information ill informed and incorrect. It is obvious to me that he wakes at 3.00 am and studies the case as he goes. Slowly he is becoming familiar with the case but he wasn't involved in discussions as the case unfolded and has missed much relevant information. Add that to the fact that he refuses to say if he has ever visited here and as you say replying is simply a waste of effort.

I can't work out why someone would want to argue with so many people with so little knowledge about what they are arguing about!

Every trial day that goes by without the stinger from the prosecution is a good day for the defence. If they had the trump card to end the speculation I feel sure they would show early.

[Darkknight666]

I'm having faith in the defense team, well I'm trying. So far they seem to be without Cajones. I like to think they're waiting for the right moment to lay waste to the prosecution. With the current political climate it really seems to me that stepping across the line might have consequences. Why is there nothing at all from Sean? The guy knows more than he's letting on, why aren't UK police all over the guy?

[Whyamiandwhatamidoinghere]

In the interest of the RTP possibly improving their abilities to investigate serious crimes, allow me to make a mention of how trained dogs could assist.

First off, GB pooped on an earlier mention of involving trained dogs, saying something about how it wouldn't have worked in this case because it was on a beach and the tide comes in and out.

Here's an example of how that's not true, and how dogs could have proved effective, even days after the crime:

>>> take a piece of clothing, let's say Hannah's shirt (with the scent of bodily fluids). Put it to dog's nose. Then take the dog, on a leash, to all places of interest. Suggest: Headman house and office, Mon's living quarters, nearby laundry facilities, places where Mon's tough-guy buddies dwell/sleep, Burmeses' dwelling, and so on. Maybe do the same at Nomsod's dwelling in Bkk, and where he does laundry. The idea being: a well-trained dog would seek any other things (clothing, weapons, etc) with Hannah's scent - thereby alerting the dog's handler on what to test for DNA/fingerprints/dandruff, etc. If anything remotely like that had been done within hours/days of the crime, this case would look a lot clearer. Even now, nearly a year later, it could be tried.

There are thousands of stories of dog sniffing miracles: One which stands out: 5 days after a murder at a suburban house, a trained dog was able to show a trail, across a rear lawn and through nearby woods. Discarded clothing was thereby found and tested, and the murderer was caught.

I Love Dogs and I know they have an incredible sense of smell. But in this case I still don' see much use they would be. Tracing Hannah's Footsteps back to Bar we already know she visited can't contribute to much. There wasn't anything taken from Hannah so the dogs didn't have anything to look for. Blood on clothes could easily be washed in the Ocean, and burned later.With Hannah's Scent, I am not sure you can train a dog just to look for her Blood. More likely they will lead you down a Garden Path and to all the places she has been.

They already believed they had the murder weapon on the first day. Also collecting DNA from the Crime Scene and nearby log. Great if they cold smell out who owned those cigarettes, but I am not sure they can. Then that would have been helpful. Maybe with David Millers missing Mobile Phone as well. But again not sure about it and if they could do that.

A much earlier claim was made, to get all the ducks lined up, was that Hannah shared some cigarettes with the Burmese. This enabled her DNA to be "discovered" on a cigarette butt. Her family and friends claim she had never in her life smoked cigarettes ! Now the big question is: where are all those interpreters who have fled the court??

"Her family and friends claim she had never in her life smoked cigarettes !"

A point I made just a few days ago. If she didn't smoke, how is it that there are recent claims that her DNA might be on one (or more) of the cig butts discovered near the log where the B2 were sitting?

The most likely possibility is that her DNA was transfered from the mouth of the person smoking the cigarette.

[bunglebag]

See those boats in the background? I bet Andy has... It would be easy for the cops to identify those vessels and talk to everyone on board because it is vital.

I read yesterday in a Drummond article (dated approx 20-9-14) that there were up to 10 fishing boats moored off sairee beach that night and that police were tracking them down. This was new to me because when the murders first occurred I thought the news reports said it couldn't be a repeat of the fishermen swimming to shore murder because all fishing boats were moored round the other side of the island that night for some reason.

Am I the only one who thought they read all fishing boats were moored round the other side of the island that night that initially?

[stephenterry]

dna is the key..............forget about all this bla bla thing

DNA evidence is not available to the defence to retest.

[phuketandsee]

dna is the key..............forget about all this bla bla thing

Forget about the DNA:

1. No proper, believable collection or testing

2. No chain of custody

3. Now possibly "lost" or "used up" - conflicting reports from RTP on this

4. This is the RTP we're talking about.

5. Even despite the above it only goes to rape not murder which is the charge against the B2

All the discussion on TV over the months on DNA is a waste of time. UNLESS the Brits have their own DNA evidence showing it's not the B2

Boy would I die a happy man if that is the case!

Edited July 22, 2015 by phuketandsee

[minikev]

I'm having faith in the defense team, well I'm trying. So far they seem to be without Cajones. I like to think they're waiting for the right moment to lay waste to the prosecution. With the current political climate it really seems to me that stepping across the line might have consequences. Why is there nothing at all from Sean? The guy knows more than he's letting on, why aren't UK police all over the guy?

Sometimes the guy with the balls sits silently till his time arrives! I also wait pensively.

[Whyamiandwhatamidoinghere]

Mr Nakhon if you expect justice to be done i would expect all parties to be able to scrutinise evidence and ask serious questions of the investigative process.

I feel dreadfully sorry for the boys on trial. I just can't see how they did it when all viable evidence points elsewhere. They've suffered enough so hope they are acquitted sooner rather than later

Just think how tragic it is for the boy who's father died while he has been locked up. Imagine not being able to attend your own father's cremation.

[VINCENT2012]

dna is the key..............forget about all this bla bla thing

Forget about the DNA:

1. No proper, believable collection or testing

2. No chain of custody

3. Now possibly "lost" or "used up" - conflicting reports from RTP on this

4. This is the RTP we're talking about.

5. Even despite the above it only goes to rape not murder which is the charge against the B2

All the discussion on TV over the months on DNA is a waste of time. UNLESS the Brits have their own DNA evidence showing it's not the B2

Boy would I die a happy man if that is the case!

if no prouved...these people will have to be released by the judge.

[silverado]

Thai police officer describes scene at site of British backpacker killings

"

what I want to know, it's who called the first police officer, FINALLY... and what time ..

is it the beach cleaner, Mon or somebody else , finally ???? and what was he doing near the scene so early in the morning ?

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/jul/08/thai-police-officer-describes-scene-at-site-of-british-backpacker-killings

[stephenterry]

dna is the key..............forget about all this bla bla thing

Forget about the DNA:

1. No proper, believable collection or testing

2. No chain of custody

3. Now possibly "lost" or "used up" - conflicting reports from RTP on this

4. This is the RTP we're talking about.

5. Even despite the above it only goes to rape not murder which is the charge against the B2

All the discussion on TV over the months on DNA is a waste of time. UNLESS the Brits have their own DNA evidence showing it's not the B2

Boy would I die a happy man if that is the case!

if no prouved...these people will have to be released by the judge.

in theory, yes, but this is Thailand. Justice is bought.

[HUH]

Thai police officer describes scene at site of British backpacker killings

"

what I want to know, it's who called the first police officer, FINALLY... and what time ..

is it the beach cleaner, Mon or somebody else , finally ???? and what was he doing near the scene so early in the morning ?

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/jul/08/thai-police-officer-describes-scene-at-site-of-british-backpacker-killings

Beach cleaners found the bodies, they worked for Mon and notified him, Mon on his way to the scene called one of his buddy RTP mates

Edited July 22, 2015 by HUH

[StealthEnergiser]

[boomerangutang]

"DNA evidence is not available to the defense to retest."

Then what about the police chief General Somyot declaring on the afternoon of the 10th of this month that they had ALL DNA ? He says they lost nothing (though the hair is lost and the cig butt is 'used up'). Is it yet another lie? A bluff? The truth? A way to further procrastinate and drag out the time line of the trial?

Re; RTP saying they have phone records proving NS was in Bangkok. I think that's a lie, and just as assuredly, there will be zero objective proof (phone records from phone service, for example) to substantiate it. If, however, RTP is saying there was a phone call on his phone (in Bkk) anytime after 8:30 am on Monday, then it proves nothing, because getting from KT to Bkk in a hurry, can be done in 3.5 hours. The crime wrapped up at 5 am.

Sometimes the guy with the balls sits silently till his time arrives! I also wait pensively.

As FDR might say, "Speak softly and carry a big stick."

reason for edit: quotes were messed up.

Edited July 22, 2015 by boomerangutang

[silverado]

Thai police officer describes scene at site of British backpacker killings

"

what I want to know, it's who called the first police officer, FINALLY... and what time ..

is it the beach cleaner, Mon or somebody else , finally ???? and what was he doing near the scene so early in the morning ?

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/jul/08/thai-police-officer-describes-scene-at-site-of-british-backpacker-killings

in the case of a beach cleaner, is it possible to clean a beach before the sun rise ? is it not too dark for start his job ?

[StealthEnergiser]

Thai police officer describes scene at site of British backpacker killings

"

what I want to know, it's who called the first police officer, FINALLY... and what time ..

is it the beach cleaner, Mon or somebody else , finally ???? and what was he doing near the scene so early in the morning ?

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/jul/08/thai-police-officer-describes-scene-at-site-of-british-backpacker-killings

in the case of a beach cleaner, is it possible to clean a beach before the sun rise ? is it not too dark for start his job ?

It wouldn't matter what time for that beach cleaner as I read somewhere he was half blind and could not see the blood on the hoe also.

The only evidence available for the re-examination approved by the Koh Samui court on Friday are the sharp garden hoe allegedly used in the murder, a shoe, sock, and bags from the scene. Last week, a partially blind Burmese beach cleaner told the court he spotted the garden hoe at the scene before police arrived, and returned the tool to its normal spot nearby. Upon police's request, he later retrieved the hoe, which he said he was unaware was covered in blood.

http://www.khaosodenglish.com/detail.php?newsid=1436774626&section=12

Edited July 22, 2015 by StealthEnergiser

[Rykbanlor]

I can only assume that they will be given the chance to cross examine the witnesses tomorrow?

[HUH]

Thai police officer describes scene at site of British backpacker killings

"

what I want to know, it's who called the first police officer, FINALLY... and what time ..

is it the beach cleaner, Mon or somebody else , finally ???? and what was he doing near the scene so early in the morning ?

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/jul/08/thai-police-officer-describes-scene-at-site-of-british-backpacker-killings

in the case of a beach cleaner, is it possible to clean a beach before the sun rise ? is it not too dark for start his job ?

It wouldn't matter what time for that beach cleaner as I read somewhere he was half blind and could not see the blood on the hoe also.

Strangely enough the first beach cleaner to find the bodies is back in Burma: Sein Htay said the court was told on Wednesday that a Burmese migrant woman was the first person to find the battered and lifeless bodies of the two British tourists, but that she has already left Thailand. So we're never going to hear her important testimoney