Small Investors Treated Like Scum

[serpentine]

I find it upsetting that the current caretaker government is inciting nationalism against the foreign influence The initial 3 million baht condo rule was I believe essential to the development boom in Bk and in many tourist areas. Most condos in Bk are owned by foreigners. It is why Bk is such a famous INTERNATIONAL city. A jewel in the crown of a country, essential to the nations international identity. All jokes aside about the cracks in the pavement and the traffic, does Thailand really want to lose this international identity?

Whenever unhealthy nationalism rears it's ugly head, it is a sign of bad things to come.

I think that's what these new visa laws are all about?

Very few foreigners take thai jobs. Younger generation can be very apathetic. Kids will stay at home until their 30's, not because they can't afford to move out, but because someone with a decent job in the family will always fund the lifestyles of the siblings without jobs. This is thai style, although I believe it is a novelty of the past if the country is to thrive.

Small farang business (especially in tourism) employ and generally teach new skills to thais, a culture reletavily new to a western influence. Samui and Tao cannot even get thai staff to work in the more upscale businesses because they are afraid to leave the family pod. Burmese and farang are often employed in some industries simply because thais will not apply for the jobs, even with much bigger salaries than the mainland.

I despise the westernisation of everything (esp in Asia in the last few years) but I don't think a FOREIGNERS OUT policy is the answer.

Anyone?

[taxexile]

that was a post of such staggering inconsequentiality , i dont know why you bothered.

[serpentine]

Thankyou. Constructive criticism. Or you just don't have an opinion? Sorry if it doesn't make sense. It was suppossed to be in reply to coments by a thai minister that the 3 million baht thing was too small to be helpfull to the country, and another comment about "not all foreigners are bad". I bet the 3 ml baht investment was important in '97 after the crash. Why has the worm turned?

[jdinasia]

I find it upsetting that the current caretaker government is inciting nationalism against the foreign influence The initial 3 million baht condo rule was I believe essential to the development boom in Bk and in many tourist areas. Most condos in Bk are owned by foreigners. It is why Bk is such a famous INTERNATIONAL city.<< ummm NO .... MOST are NOT owned by foriegners>> A jewel in the crown of a country, essential to the nations international identity. All jokes aside about the cracks in the pavement and the traffic, does Thailand really want to lose this international identity?

Whenever unhealthy nationalism rears it's ugly head, it is a sign of bad things to come.

I think that's what these new visa laws are all about? Is that a question? If so I think it is about the bad international press that recent arrests of criminals have gotten.

Very few foreigners take thai jobs. Younger generation can be very apathetic. Kids will stay at home until their 30's, not because they can't afford to move out, but because someone with a decent job in the family will always fund the lifestyles of the siblings without jobs. This is thai style, although I believe it is a novelty of the past if the country is to thrive. ???

Small farang business (especially in tourism) employ and generally teach new skills to thais, a culture reletavily new to a western influence. Samui and Tao cannot even get thai staff to work in the more upscale businesses because they are afraid to leave the family pod. Burmese and farang are often employed in some industries simply because thais will not apply for the jobs, even with much bigger salaries than the mainland. <<really???? OK all you visa-runners ... there is where the jobs are!!>>

I despise the westernisation of everything (esp in Asia in the last few years) but I don't think a FOREIGNERS OUT policy is the answer. <<werent you praising the INTERNATION CITY concept above?>>

Anyone?

that was a post of such staggering inconsequentiality , i dont know why you bothered.

and another nice post by Tax

[A_Traveller]

The 3 million baht option was brought in to try to kick start the moribund condo business {around 2001 I think}. It was always viewed as a short term measure and an anomaly.

You may not agree with that, but that is the reality. Further it was made clear that it was a short term measure at the time. The blow up about it now was not its demise, but the suggestion that the programme itself would be terminated retrospectively.

Regards

[Firefan]

Spot on A. Traveller! AND they decided to correct that mistake and grandfather in all current investment visa holders. So the mistake have been corrected for most (except the unlucky few who have BOUGHT but condo not finished yet - so no title deed yet). Cheers!

[serpentine]

Yeah ok.

Thais don't need foreigners to wreck the country. The powers that be can probably do it without us.

Xenphobia is a good thing. Definatly a positive step forward.

Bangkok sucks anyway. Won't make a difference if there are foreigners livimg there or not.

Bangkok's recent property boom has had nothing at all to do with foreign investment.

The more 7-11, Macro, Carre 4 etc that sprawl up all over the place the better because all that BIG foreign investment definatly makes Thailand a better place.

Thailand doesn't need native english teachers teaching in it's schools.

Thais are very very hard working people.

How's that for a waste of time?

[serpentine]

I don't know about the origins of the policy but I do know a lot of foreigners who have purchased small investments so they can come and go. If it remains that they can get the appropriate visas outside the country everytime they visit then it may all be ok. We will have to wait and see.

[Firefan]

Fair points Serpentine.

Property boom; yeah - but I doubt many foreigners bought because of an investment visa really. I DO think that the stricter tourist visits can reduce it a little bit - but not much.

7-11/Macro Etc. are good for both Thais and foreigners in Thailand, and my best guess is that 95% of their turnover comes from Thais. It sure does make it a better place for most - cheaper/fresher goods - yes please!

English teachers; yeah problem that needs to be fixed, but caused by greedy schools rather than immigration rules.

Cheers!

[jdinasia]

We can just add this to the Farang Longstayers Criminals thread

[serpentine]

What's that? That some have invested in property?

[rishi]

Using a heading like "small investors treated like scum" on a post dealing with OP's problems concerning spending 3 m on his own living quarters, certaily tells Op has a limited, ego-centered horizon. I won't bother replying to the opening post - only the heading.

I'm an invostor as small as can possibly be - 1 M baht invested in a Thai business, that merely makes enough profit to give bread and butter to a couple of people (1 foreigner, 1 thai). However, although I do see some tight lips while various people look trough submitted papers, it all ends up in a friendly discussion on what else is needed to satisfy superiors. In most cases, after having produced those extra papers, I end up getting what I needed.

[serpentine]

I don't think 3 mil is a small investment. The heading was designed to see what people thoughts are on an MP who claims that it is an insignifigant investment, infering that there is no need to cater to the needs of these investers with visa incentives. I know that 3 mil is a large sum in this country and potential investors in business and property will be less likely to choose Tld if they see the government endorse comments like this or suddenly change a policy that was a big part of why they invested in the first place.

[Sir Burr]

Errm....US$75,000 is peanuts when it comes to foreign investments.

And how does you home country ease the plight of foreign investors with as much as US$75,000? Allow them to stay 12 months of the year and let them do visa runs?

[serpentine]

My country makes it very difficult to stay beyond the standard tourist visa. Thailand is a developing country. I think foreigners investing 75,000US important for this country as it stands rignt now. The huge investors who do build power stations end up owning the country. The small investor just injects much needed cash into the economy. Countries like Japan are very protective of their issuing of visas to foreigners, but they already own half of the developed world. Thailand doesn't. It needs to demonstrate stability and encourage small investors. The so called criminal element the visa laws are apparently designed to filter out will be there anyway. And if they are all kicked out I reckon the thais will have plenty of home grown vermin to deal with.

[rishi]

Recently got a mortgage from Bangkok Bank, 2.1 M on a 4 story shophouse (including those 64 sqm land it occupies). We put down 900,000 - that is a price of 3 M for 230 sqm floorspace. The bank evaluated it to 2.8 M - what'll be their evaluation of a - maybe double-priced - condominium some foreigner has paid 3 M for?

[dog412]

Recently got a mortgage from Bangkok Bank, 2.1 M on a 4 story shophouse (including those 64 sqm land it occupies). We put down 900,000 - that is a price of 3 M for 230 sqm floorspace. The bank evaluated it to 2.8 M - what'll be their evaluation of a - maybe double-priced - condominium some foreigner has paid 3 M for?

not saying you sound smug, but i do hope you are a thai citizen. anyways and otherwise, i wish you the best of luck on your "purchase."

[rishi]

Was just suggesting a reality check.

[Thaiquila]

Errm....US$75,000 is peanuts when it comes to foreign investments.

And how does you home country ease the plight of foreign investors with as much as US$75,000? Allow them to stay 12 months of the year and let them do visa runs?

PLEASE let us put to BED once and for all direct comparisons between THAILAND and first world countries in the west.

Consider the massive difference in MEDIUM INCOME for a Thai versus an American or a Swede.

It is a factor of how many times? Many, many.

So an investment in Thailand of 3 million baht is actually much more significant than the same investment in the west. The Thai elite, hisos etc. don't see it that way, but they are a small minority.

[jdinasia]

My country makes it very difficult to stay beyond the standard tourist visa. Thailand is a developing country. I think foreigners investing 75,000US important for this country as it stands rignt now. The huge investors who do build power stations end up owning the country. The small investor just injects much needed cash into the economy. Countries like Japan are very protective of their issuing of visas to foreigners, but they already own half of the developed world. Thailand doesn't. It needs to demonstrate stability and encourage small investors. The so called criminal element the visa laws are apparently designed to filter out will be there anyway. And if they are all kicked out I reckon the thais will have plenty of home grown vermin to deal with.

Sorry .... the 3 million is in fact nothing. And the 'home grown vermin' wont do the same damage on the international tourism numbers as 1 Karr getting airplay that plays on CNN and BBC for a week or more.

[singa-traz]

Yeah ok.

Thais don't need foreigners to wreck the country. The powers that be can probably do it without us.

Xenphobia is a good thing. Definatly a positive step forward.

Bangkok sucks anyway. Won't make a difference if there are foreigners livimg there or not.

Bangkok's recent property boom has had nothing at all to do with foreign investment.

The more 7-11, Macro, Carre 4 etc that sprawl up all over the place the better because all that BIG foreign investment definatly makes Thailand a better place.

Thailand doesn't need native english teachers teaching in it's schools.

Thais are very very hard working people.

How's that for a waste of time?

7-11 can't really be classified as Foreign Investment. It's a Franchise, managed in Thailand by one of the biggest Thai Conglomerate.

Edited September 18, 2006 by singa-traz

[backflip]

"Most condos in Bk are owned by foreigners."

Where did you get that nugget? It is an incorrect statement - most condos in Bangkok are owned by Thais.

[Thaiquila]

Well, I will admit 3 m isn't much, but it is something.

People on other financial requirement visas shouldn't be too comfortable now. Such as retirement and 2 million baht business formation.

[kiakaha]

I despise the westernisation of everything (esp in Asia in the last few years) but I don't think a FOREIGNERS OUT policy is the answer.

Anyone?

who exactly are these foriegners ? no foreigners i know are the slightest bit affected and everything is business as usual.

[serpentine]

Sorry, stand corrected. Did some research. The important figure is that a large portion are rented or leased long term by foreign corporations so they can do business in the city. The statistics on the new developments seem to be that a few very wealthy thais own a lot of the condos. Point been the foreigners living here temporary are a huge part of this economy.

[jdinasia]

Not too sure about a large portion being rented or leased by foriegn corporations eiter .... but since those folks will NOT be affected by anything going on ... no problem

Edited September 19, 2006 by jdinasia

[serpentine]

Have you followed the comments made bycertain MPs who are definatly pushing the nationalist line and making very damaging statements with regards to the evil foreigner destroying things for good decent thais. This has been going on for a few years. It often makes the foreign media and gives Thailand a very unstable image with regards to the general feelings about foreigners.

I know 8 people who live here buying thai products and exporting to their home countries. There was no special visa requirements for them when they set up their import companies from home. They all spend 4- 8 mnts of the year here, never knowing far in advance when they will have to return, due to supply and demand.

What do you suggest they do now they will probably be rejected on their next visit, unless the immigration are clear and fair about who is and isn't allowed back in.

[eddy-ham]

Thailand pop 61.5 mill...Bangkok 10mill

Ethnic groups: Thai 75%, Chinese 14%, other 11%

A percentage of the 11% as expats is not a majority.

You are a small investor,a small minority ,living in a foreign country,if you can vote you have a voice if not then.......................

On the note of comparing Thailand to western countries I agree that its difficult but I have always found that the average locals house price is reflected in what the average local can afford so there is a comparison if you take the monies available to the locals.

[jdinasia]

Have you followed the comments made bycertain MPs who are definatly pushing the nationalist line and making very damaging statements with regards to the evil foreigner destroying things for good decent thais. This has been going on for a few years. It often makes the foreign media and gives Thailand a very unstable image with regards to the general feelings about foreigners.

I know 8 people who live here buying thai products and exporting to their home countries. There was no special visa requirements for them when they set up their import companies from home. They all spend 4- 8 mnts of the year here, never knowing far in advance when they will have to return, due to supply and demand.

What do you suggest they do now they will probably be rejected on their next visit, unless the immigration are clear and fair about who is and isn't allowed back in.

I suggest they .... ummmm ..... get a visa?

[eddy-ham]

Have you followed the comments made bycertain MPs who are definatly pushing the nationalist line and making very damaging statements with regards to the evil foreigner destroying things for good decent thais. This has been going on for a few years. It often makes the foreign media and gives Thailand a very unstable image with regards to the general feelings about foreigners.

I know 8 people who live here buying thai products and exporting to their home countries. There was no special visa requirements for them when they set up their import companies from home. They all spend 4- 8 mnts of the year here, never knowing far in advance when they will have to return, due to supply and demand.

What do you suggest they do now they will probably be rejected on their next visit, unless the immigration are clear and fair about who is and isn't allowed back in.

I suggest they .... ummmm ..... get a visa?

They should do what you would expect them to do if they did the same in your own original country, become legal, visa, tax ect.