Is Thailand Value for money

[webfact]

Family offers B170k reward over disappearance of US Iraq veteran off Phuket
The Phuket News


Joshua Devine was reported missing in the early hours of April 11. Photo courtesy of Mermaids Dive Center Facebook page

PHUKET: -- The family of Joshua Devine, who disappeared off a dive boat north of Phuket three months ago, is offering a reward of $5,000 (more than 170,000 baht) to anyone with information that could lead to his whereabouts.

Mr Devine, 36 and a US Army veteran who deployed to Kosovo and Iraq, was on an extended dive tour when he was reported missing from the dive boat Chontara about 17 miles off Bang Tao Beach on April 11.

“He’s been in war zones since he was 18, and goes missing while on a diving trip. It just doesn`t equate,” Mr Devine’s sister Jennifer Bakowski told FOXCT.

“We don’t want to put anyone else in danger by coming forward, but we need to bring him home. We need closure to this.”

Witnesses told the family that Mr Devine, who worked as a IT specialist for a private military contractor at an army base in Kuwait, was drunk and somehow ended up going overboard, but his disappearance went unreported for hours.

“Nobody heard a splash. Nobody heard anything about him going into the water, he just ‘magically disappeared’,” Mrs Bakowski said.

The family released a document to US news agency Fox Connecticut that detailed email conversations between Mr Devine’s sister, the US Embassy and an investigative reporter as the family digs for answers. His family has questioned whether foul play was involved.

Mrs Bakowski and her mother in April joined Phuket Governor Nisit Jansomwong and members of the Marine Police in their search.

However, they left without finding any clues to Mr Devine’s whereabouts, and the official search ended shortly thereafter.

The family hopes a US$5,000 will help anyone come forward with information, past efforts have turned up no credible leads or information.

“We’ve been told that the Thai community is afraid to go forward. Because people go missing.” Mrs Bakowski said.

Source: http://www.thephuketnews.com/family-offers-b170k-reward-over-disappearance-of-us-iraq-veteran-off-phuket-53186.php


-- Phuket News 2015-07-13

[zaphod reborn]

Yep, people just go missing in Thailand. The police never held his Thai wife and the boat crew, although their story and delay in reporting his disappearance just didn't hold water.

[Lex Talionis]

She said he had been drinking with other divers on the 24-passenger boat and that his behavior suggested he was drunk. "He was yelling and spilled beer everywhere and made a mess of the room," she told NBC News.

He was acting irrationally and said he believed the light fittings in the cabins were secret cameras, according to the account given by his wife. "He smashed the light and pulled the cables out," she said, adding that he also "pulled my hair."

Sounds like the behavior of a man who's had his drink spiked.

[KarenBravo]

Sounds like the behaviour of an ordinary paranoid drunk.

[stevenl]

He was drunk and fell in the water. Of course no splash was heard, the boat was moving with engines running.

"He’s been in war zones since he was 18, and goes missing while on a diving trip. It just doesn`t equate," why doesn't that equate?

"We’ve been told that the Thai community is afraid to go forward. Because people go missing." I hear many things, but just a very small part of them are true.

"We don’t want to put anyone else in danger by coming forward, but we need to bring him home. We need closure to this" You're only going to find closure if you accept what makes sense, and conspiricy theories are not part of that.

"However, they left without finding any clues to Mr Devine’s whereabouts," yes, the sea is big and currents are strong. They can't even find a missing plane.

[NamKangMan]

He was drunk and fell in the water. Of course no splash was heard, the boat was moving with engines running.

"He’s been in war zones since he was 18, and goes missing while on a diving trip. It just doesn`t equate," why doesn't that equate?

"We’ve been told that the Thai community is afraid to go forward. Because people go missing." I hear many things, but just a very small part of them are true.

"We don’t want to put anyone else in danger by coming forward, but we need to bring him home. We need closure to this" You're only going to find closure if you accept what makes sense, and conspiricy theories are not part of that.

"However, they left without finding any clues to Mr Devine’s whereabouts," yes, the sea is big and currents are strong. They can't even find a missing plane.

"He’s been in war zones since he was 18, and goes missing while on a diving trip. It just doesn`t equate," why doesn't that equate? - I suppose it does equate because he has been in stressful and dangerous situations many times, and for a long periods, yet appears to have died whillst on a diving trip in Thailand, which is a leisure activity.

[NamKangMan]

She said he had been drinking with other divers on the 24-passenger boat and that his behavior suggested he was drunk. "He was yelling and spilled beer everywhere and made a mess of the room," she told NBC News.

He was acting irrationally and said he believed the light fittings in the cabins were secret cameras, according to the account given by his wife. "He smashed the light and pulled the cables out," she said, adding that he also "pulled my hair."

Sounds like the behavior of a man who's had his drink spiked.

"Sounds like the behavior of a man who's had his drink spiked." - sounds like the behavior that would have aroused the interest of others onboard.

[mmh8]

they could write a film about this, call it deep blue 3 or something.

anyone who has been to war zone will know that safety in any location is often relative and an illusion. why should diving be any less so?

sympathies with family, there is a possibility that local search and rescue will only look in areas close to shore as they will be easier to access than where the diving took place.

[robertthebruce]

So so sad....

But now that there is Money involved, for sure, some more light will be shed on this unfortunate case....

[harrycallahan]

Military excursions and drunken misadventure during leisure time are mutually exclusive activities - one doesn't effect the other. He was an IT specialist btw not a navy seal.

[mike324]

So by accounts he fell overboard and is probably at the bottom of the ocean by now. Don't find it surprising why nobody heard a splash, that is the same reason why it was only hours later people found out he was missing.

[SOTIRIOS]

...sounds like a load of BS....with no love.....

...and an excuse to get rid of someone.....

...that is usually how it works around here .....

[Johnny S]

"However, they left without finding any clues to Mr Devine’s whereabouts, and the official search ended shortly thereafter."

As far as I remember they promised the relatives that the search would go on until they found him - It ended as soon as the relatives were on their way to the airport ... No money in a search - the wife already cashed in ...

[Orac]

She said he had been drinking with other divers on the 24-passenger boat and that his behavior suggested he was drunk. "He was yelling and spilled beer everywhere and made a mess of the room," she told NBC News.

He was acting irrationally and said he believed the light fittings in the cabins were secret cameras, according to the account given by his wife. "He smashed the light and pulled the cables out," she said, adding that he also "pulled my hair."

Sounds like the behavior of a man who's had his drink spiked.

Smashed lights, pulled cables and was violent with his wife yet it was several hours before they noticed he was missing?

[Inepto Cracy]

Check the inventory of weight belts and anchors, before and after the trip? I smell rotten fish here.

[AlQaholic]

When I was working actively as a dive instructor we made sure we never stocked enough alcohol on the boat for anyone to get drunk. Of course this doesn't stop people from carrying their own booze on board. A beer or two after the dives are finished for the day, usually do not harm anyone, even if they are paranoid or in any other way mentally ill, but allowing someone to get that drunk as it appears in the story is irresponsible by the dive operator not to mention bad for business.

[stevenl]

When I was working actively as a dive instructor we made sure we never stocked enough alcohol on the boat for anyone to get drunk. Of course this doesn't stop people from carrying their own booze on board. A beer or two after the dives are finished for the day, usually do not harm anyone, even if they are paranoid or in any other way mentally ill, but allowing someone to get that drunk as it appears in the story is irresponsible by the dive operator not to mention bad for business.

On any liveaboard at the start of a trip there is always plenty of alcohol on board.

[cdnvic]

Some of you are getting a bit too nasty here. Cleaned it up but please chill a bit.

[Tassie Norm]

When I was working actively as a dive instructor we made sure we never stocked enough alcohol on the boat for anyone to get drunk. Of course this doesn't stop people from carrying their own booze on board. A beer or two after the dives are finished for the day, usually do not harm anyone, even if they are paranoid or in any other way mentally ill, but allowing someone to get that drunk as it appears in the story is irresponsible by the dive operator not to mention bad for business.

Retired PADI Instructor, me. I agree. However, Thailand. Standards, as probably everywhere, alas, vary.

[stevenl]

When I was working actively as a dive instructor we made sure we never stocked enough alcohol on the boat for anyone to get drunk. Of course this doesn't stop people from carrying their own booze on board. A beer or two after the dives are finished for the day, usually do not harm anyone, even if they are paranoid or in any other way mentally ill, but allowing someone to get that drunk as it appears in the story is irresponsible by the dive operator not to mention bad for business.

Retired PADI Instructor, me. I agree. However, Thailand. Standards, as probably everywhere, alas, vary.

I have been on many lives boards all over the world, and they all have alcoholic drinks on board. Take into account this was the start of the liveaboard.

[Guest]

In any scenario where foul play is suspected, there are two factors to resolve.

Motive and Opportunity.

There is little doubt that "Man Overboard" is an ideal opportunity.

What is sorely missing here is Motive. There are two types of murder. Premeditated and spontaneous.

If it is money motivated, and there is a plan, what we would need to know before we venture any more guesses, is .. did anyone benefit financially from this gentleman's death? If so, who, and how much?

Is there any reason to believe that this was spontaneous? Self defense, a crime of passion, etc?

I generally scold the TV crowd for their "play detective' antics, but in this case, the speculation is deserved, since the lack of searching, the silly stories about paranoid ranting, wires and hair pulling.

Why is that silly? There is a very long road from "He was acting crazy" to "He jumped overboard"

Jumping overboard, especially for people with dive experience, is an absurd "solution" to any problem.

Get violent and fight with others on the boat? Go crazy and attack the captain? Yes and yes.

Paranoid? Think you are being watched? How about .. Hide out on the boat until it gets to shore and then sneak away? Hold on for a moment here...

What they need to do is spend less time flying in circles over the ocean, and focus on every camera within a kilometer of that dock ... sadly ... those recordings are only archived for so long. So, that ship may have sailed.

[Wat dee]

She said he had been drinking with other divers on the 24-passenger boat and that his behavior suggested he was drunk. "He was yelling and spilled beer everywhere and made a mess of the room," she told NBC News.

He was acting irrationally and said he believed the light fittings in the cabins were secret cameras, according to the account given by his wife. "He smashed the light and pulled the cables out," she said, adding that he also "pulled my hair."

Sounds like the behavior of a man who's had his drink spiked.

Sounds like drunk to Me,maybe He's not much of a drinker! Of course He being "war hero" and all make Him more like a saint, who wouldn't abuse his wife or binge drink.

[cookee68]

The sharks have long had him, when your drunk its easy to fall off a boat, and even easier to be pushed off, then no one notices for a few hours, surely the wife would have noticed or others

[user82374298374]

If I were to guess, he knew enough Thai to realize that the operators of the boat and/or his wife were talking smack about him, words and maybe drunken blows were exchanged, and then the problem of the annoying farang was solved, permanently.

We'll never know, of course.

[Ulic]

Very easy to fall over the side of a boat while taking a piss. Even when you have not been

drinking. While sailing across the South Pacific we did not use a life line unless going forward to

adjust sail in rough weather. However we understood and accepted the risk that If we fell into the

water we were going to die. Unless someone sees you fall in, and even then it was 50-50, zero

chance of being found if you fall in at night even if someone sees you fall in. With sea swell, and

waves you can't maintain a visual on someone bobbing up and down in the water and you will

quickly be separated from the boat. That said was there motive? Was the wife going to

come into a substantial sum of money, was there a love triangle. If no to these I would go

with the simplest explanation. Drunk, he fell over the side of the boat taking a piss.

I know this is pure speculation, but that is what we do here on Thai Visa in absence of the facts

[KarenBravo]

If I were to guess, he knew enough Thai to realize that the operators of the boat and/or his wife were talking smack about him, words and maybe drunken blows were exchanged, and then the problem of the annoying farang was solved, permanently.

We'll never know, of course.

Evidence, proof?

Or, just a fertile imagination?

I think the latter.

[Lex Talionis]

He went missing after other passengers attempted to calm him, Devine’s wife said. He was left alone for a short time, and was gone when others checked on him, she added.

Devine’s family has serious doubts about the story. As a trained diver with an even keel, it is highly unlikely that he would have been intoxicated just hours before a scheduled dive, said his sister, Jennifer Bakowski, of Enfield, Conn. He was typically “all business” when there were risks, she said.

“It’s utter nonsense, what they’re painting him as,” Bakowski told The Washington Post. “They’re painting him as some drunk American who landed in Thai water, and tough luck.”

- https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/checkpoint/wp/2015/04/16/in-mystery-u-s-army-veteran-goes-missing-from-dive-boat-off-thailand/

I tend to agree with the sister. A seasoned diver wildly drunk hours before a scheduled dive? Possible but highly unlikely. There were several witnesses to his "erratic" behavior who might shed some light on the circumstances. Unfortunately these people are now scattered to the 4 corners.

After serving in Kosovo the man reenlisted in the national guard after 9/11. Served in an Iraqi war zone for 1 year. I think he deserves better. Someone needs to step up and help this family.

Edited July 13, 2015 by Lex Talionis

[Orac]

I see Andrew Drummond has quite a bit of additional information/background on this in an article i am not allowed to link to.

[stevenl]

I see Andrew Drummond has quite a bit of additional information/background on this in an article i am not allowed to link to.

Since his website is blocked, maybe you can tell is in short what he is saying?

Edit: just managed to see his site through a link on his Facebook page. No information at all on the AD site, only some speculation since he might have had some land on Phuket (seems strange since he was not living or working here) and his wife is not giving the family the information they want.

Edited July 14, 2015 by stevenl

[Orac]

I see Andrew Drummond has quite a bit of additional information/background on this in an article i am not allowed to link to.

Since his website is blocked, maybe you can tell is in short what he is saying?

Edit: just managed to see his site through a link on his Facebook page. No information at all on the AD site, only some speculation since he might have had some land on Phuket (seems strange since he was not living or working here) and his wife is not giving the family the information they want.

Seems a bit more than speculation though clearly one sided information provided by his family and sounds very like many other stories - wife from the "entertainment industry", mafia brother in-law, four properties in Phuket being run by wife, wife now being uncooperative with family regarding pre-nip and will, conflicting witness statements.