elissa clay Posted July 15, 2015 Share Posted July 15, 2015 My neice was born in Phyathai 2 Hospital, Bangkok, Thailand We are based in Australia and we have not heard any news from her mother for over four years now, unsure if she is still in Thailand. I have photocopies of her passport but need the original so she can do things as most places require original birth certificate. Any advise would be greatly appreciated Elissa Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nowretired Posted July 15, 2015 Share Posted July 15, 2015 What are you seeking to achieve? Where is the child and who is caring for her? How old is the child ? The heading of this topic asks about obtaining a passport but then you say you have a copy of the child's passport All very confusing ! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elissa clay Posted July 15, 2015 Author Share Posted July 15, 2015 hi im so sorry ive messed up the post and I cannot figure out how to delete. First time posting on here I am trying to gain an original copy of her birth certificate, I have photocopies however the majority of things require original copies, sport etc. I care for my neice she has been with me for over four years, I have tried to find her mother in Thailand however the phone number is disconnected and no replies to my emails. She is 9 Elissa Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HooHaa Posted July 15, 2015 Share Posted July 15, 2015 (edited) what country's passport do you require? and is it a birth cert or passport you are atfer? also can the father not apply for a passort in his nationality? Edited July 15, 2015 by HooHaa 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elissa clay Posted July 15, 2015 Author Share Posted July 15, 2015 Hi yes its a birth certificate I am after, I contacted the Thai Embassy in Sydney and was advised I would have to go to Thailand and apply in the district office. I've tried to contact her mother but have had no luck. She did have an Australian passport as I have a photo copy of that, I also have a photocopy of her translated certificate of birth however banks, sports etc. require to sight the original copy. Its a long sad story but in a nut shell after not gaining residency the child was left behind and mum returned to thailand, leaving her daughter without documents and without a mum, my brother is unable to care for her so I am raising her. Elissa Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nowretired Posted July 15, 2015 Share Posted July 15, 2015 Sounds as though you should seek advice from Social Services . Is the child staying legally in Australia ? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elissa clay Posted July 15, 2015 Author Share Posted July 15, 2015 Yes she is legal has an extract from register of citizenship by decent and had an Australian passport (I have a photocopy of this) Social services (department of family services, DOCS in Australia) will not assist as they do not consider her abandoned as she was left with her paternal family. So the situation is she is legal, with no paperwork, without a birth certificate she wont be able to play sport, get her drivers licence or open a bank account. Trying to figure out an option that doesn't involve flying to Thailand Elissa Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HooHaa Posted July 15, 2015 Share Posted July 15, 2015 (edited) good of you, she is probably better off for it. birth certificates are quite easily obtained at the district office or amphur, i have applied for documents for my daughter without her mother present and had no problem, though that may vary from place to place. i am on good terms with the mother though and did have her documentation with me. if they are obliging, it is printed on the spot, and multiple copies can be made. Also the father could petition the thai court for sole custody based on the mothers abandonment and would be very likely to get it given the circumstances. he would then be in a position to get any documents he may require without her assistance. while thai bureaucracy can be quite inflexible, it is often very reasonable when it comes to the welfare of children, so the amphur may waive policy to get you what you need. I wish you luck. i am confused however as to why she cannot get AUS documentation and requires the thai versions if she is an AUS citizen with passport? Edited July 15, 2015 by HooHaa 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elissa clay Posted July 15, 2015 Author Share Posted July 15, 2015 thank you HooHaa the issue is I'm in Sydney and the office is in Thailand My brother is unable to travel, and if I fly to Thailand I run the risk of being denied and id rather spend the money on her than waste it flying to Thailand and being denied as I am not her mum. I read in a few posts that you have to have mum and dad there to get a birth certificate Seems she may never be able to get a copy Elissa Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elissa clay Posted July 15, 2015 Author Share Posted July 15, 2015 To answer your last question HooHaa she cannot get an Australian birth certificate as she was born in Thailand You can only get an Australian birth certificate if you were born in Australia she is an Australian citizen by descent her mother arranged that with the Australian embassy in Thailand after she was born Elissa Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HooHaa Posted July 15, 2015 Share Posted July 15, 2015 i can only recommend getting in touch with a family lawyer. if it is simply the birth cert you require i am sure something could be arranged, either or both of the parents would need to be present. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elissa clay Posted July 15, 2015 Author Share Posted July 15, 2015 we have been advised that there is nothing Australian law can do to gain a copy of the certificate as Thailand do not have online birth deaths and marriages, the only way is to fly to Thailand Legally Australian law or police or childrens services can do nothing Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elissa clay Posted July 15, 2015 Author Share Posted July 15, 2015 Last we heard her mother Tongta flew back to Thailand We have heard nothing from her since, so organising mum to get birth certificate might be hard Her father cannot travel and is unable to care for her Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ripstanley Posted July 15, 2015 Share Posted July 15, 2015 Where was she born in Thailand 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
naboo Posted July 15, 2015 Share Posted July 15, 2015 I would start by attempting to contact the mother's family. Hopefully your niece has been registered on a Tabien Baan at one of their properties - my daughter was registered at her grandparents' house within days of birth, and this would be a requirement to obtain a Thai passport which I assume your niece has. With the Tabien Baan you would have more chance of getting a copy of a birth certificate. With a member of the mother's family going with you, preferably the registered head of house on the Tabien Baan, and a note from a doctor stating the father cannot travel, your chances would be increased. With a few thousand Baht in an envelope, your chances increased further. But still no guarantee. Without the father gaining sole custody, if you were to take your niece with you you would then run the risk of not being allowed to leave the country with her without the mother's permission. I wish you all the best. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elissa clay Posted July 15, 2015 Author Share Posted July 15, 2015 Hi Stanley she was born in Phyathai 2 hospital, bangkok, Thailand Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elissa clay Posted July 15, 2015 Author Share Posted July 15, 2015 thank you antagonist, even if I wanted to take her I could not as she has no passport. Her mother took all original documents with her, I managed to get photocopies of the photocopies the school took when she was enrolled in school in Australia. We cannot lodge for sole custody as we do not have documents to lodge anything, so as you can see were stuck May I ask what Tabien Baan means ? Elissa Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
naboo Posted July 15, 2015 Share Posted July 15, 2015 May I ask what Tabien Baan means ? A Tabien Baan is the house registration book. This is the book that lists all the people who "live" at that address. Your niece would need to be registered on this book before being issued with any official documentation (excluding a birth certificate but including a passport). If the mother did not own her own property, she would have probably been listed at her parents' house and your niece added to that book. If the parents were dead, you need to find brothers or sisters. This and the ID card (which your niece won't yet have) are what confirms identity for everything. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elissa clay Posted July 15, 2015 Author Share Posted July 15, 2015 She had an Australian passport (we have a photocopy of the page) we cannot apply for a new passport as we do not have a birth certificate we cannot get her an Australian birth certificate as she was born in Thailand We are unable to contact the mother to get a birth certificate sent to us She is an Australian citizen by descent (we have a photocopy of the document) Her mother Tongta took all original documents with her, passport birth certificate etc, we were lucky to get photocopies of the photocopies the school took of the original documents when my niece was enrolled for school when her mother arrived in Australia on a holiday visa Were stuck at present Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elissa clay Posted July 15, 2015 Author Share Posted July 15, 2015 antagonist is this the personal no. on the birth certificate I have a photocopy of the translated birth certificate (which I cannot use as ID as it is a photocopy and not an original ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
naboo Posted July 15, 2015 Share Posted July 15, 2015 No, the birth certificate will not list anything to do with the Tabien Baan as the birth certificate is issued prior to the Tabien Baan. You really need a Thai lawyer. Try the "Ask a Lawyer" section on this board. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paz Posted July 15, 2015 Share Posted July 15, 2015 (edited) You really need a Thai lawyer. Try the "Ask a Lawyer" section on this board. I don't see why a Thai lawyer would be needed. There is no litigation or dispute in Thailand. A lawyer would just try to extract money and make no progress. I think the OP should instead consider going to an Australian court to have the Australian documents issued on the basis alone of having been issued an Australian passport previously, secondarily she has a living Australian father. She will probably need an official refusal from the Passport office first. Edited July 15, 2015 by paz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ripstanley Posted July 15, 2015 Share Posted July 15, 2015 The original birth certificate will be in Thai. Agencies in Australia will need an English translation of the certificate. Try and contact the Australian Embassy in Bangkok. They will have certified copies of documents produced to attain the Australian citizenship. They may be helpful in your case. Also contact the Australian Passport Office https://www.passports.gov.au/Web/index.aspx All Australian passports are issued in Canberra. Also write to the foreign affairs minister Julie Bishop. The more you complain to politicians the more you get from the public servants 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paz Posted July 15, 2015 Share Posted July 15, 2015 Also write to the foreign affairs minister Julie Bishop. The more you complain to politicians the more you get from the public servants I agree but foreign affairs has nothing to do with that. Op's niece is Australian and has already obtained her Aus. documents in the past. It's then a matter for the home office perhaps. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Maestro Posted July 15, 2015 Popular Post Share Posted July 15, 2015 Elissa, this a bureaucratic matter and must be dealt with the bureaucratic way. Legally, you probably can do nothing for your niece. The girl's father, who I take it is your brother, must jump into action: go to the police station and report his daughter's original Australian passport and original birth certificate lost; report his wife missing. Get copies of these three police reports. Write to the passport office to ask if these police reports and copies of the passport and birth certificate are enough to get a new passport for the daughter and if not, what else is required. Offer to submit himself and his daughter for DNA testing, if this will help. Then wait for the written answer. Do not call to ask; write, preferably registered mail. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pcliff069 Posted July 15, 2015 Share Posted July 15, 2015 (edited) Hi As far as I can see the issue is obtaining an Australian passport for your niece - the advice given by Maestro is spot on. It is not actually an uncommon situation and the Department Foreign Affairs and Trade (who are the responsible body for issue of Australian passports) is the Australian Govt Department to direct your initial enquiries to. Have a look at their website and in particular https://www.passports.gov.au/web/newppt/applyingu18.aspx From my reading your niece has previously granted an Australian passport - via the father I'm assuming. And this is the track I would be following. Edited July 15, 2015 by pcliff069 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
samran Posted July 15, 2015 Share Posted July 15, 2015 No, the birth certificate will not list anything to do with the Tabien Baan as the birth certificate is issued prior to the Tabien Baan. You really need a Thai lawyer. Try the "Ask a Lawyer" section on this board. The Thai birth certifiate has the persons Thai ID number on it as well as the parents ID number. The latter would be traceable via the house registry system to track down the mother. The father would be listed on there too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
momtaz Posted July 15, 2015 Share Posted July 15, 2015 in the normal cases, just need the birth certificate, and 1000 baht to issue a new passport as I done for my kids, not sure about your case, as the kid is not living with her mom , but I guess still can do as long as have the birh cert. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pcliff069 Posted July 15, 2015 Share Posted July 15, 2015 As i understand it the OP is trying to get an Australian passport for her neice. A Thai birth certificate is not recognised as an identifying document. Sent from my GT-I9500 using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maestro Posted July 15, 2015 Share Posted July 15, 2015 As i understand it the OP is trying to get an Australian passport for her neice. A Thai birth certificate is not recognised as an identifying document. Sent from my GT-I9500 using Tapatalk See here for the correct information: https://www.passports.gov.au/web/newppt/applyingu18.aspx Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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