Thaksin Seeks Exile In London

[nikster]

It seems all of you are forgetting that Thaksin was elected by the people of Thailand....perhaps by a flawed system but none the less by Thailands version of a democratic vote.

Well, I guess the critical word here is "flawed". How "flawed" does a democratic system need to be before it is no longer considered democratic? Say for example, if media was muzzled, checks & balances systems essentially non-functioning and serving the TRT party, widespread shameless corruption, the list goes on and on, ect, then would "Thailands version of a democratic vote" you describe really be "democratic"? Sounds awfully awfully twisted form of democracy to me, almost a complete joke. Gives democracy a bad name IMHO.

So what I am trying to say is that it is all good and well to defend democracy, but LOS under Thaksin never smelt like a real democracy to me. Didn't even come close.

Fine, but which country DOES smell like a real democracy to you? I don't know of any.

Most EU countries, Oz, Nz, Ca, and...

U.S.A. before Bush

Bush & cronies managed to undermine the system somewhat but I am confident it will bounce back [see: numerous plain illegal activities like spying on one's own people with government sanction, sanctionizing torture and secret detention camps/prisons - not exactly on par with 3rd world countries but not worthy of a democracy either]. At least the U.S. has one of the strongest and best constitutions in the world, and it was written with the idea in mind that bad people will be in the government and limiting the damage they can do.

True democracy, freedom of press always seem to go hand in hand with a low level of corruption.

Yeah, I know corruption is everywhere, but there are different levels - there's a huge outrage right now that "black lists" of whore houses existed in the Austrian Police and those on the list would never be checked. That wouldn't raise an eyebrow in Thailand, and it would continue as before, whereas in Austria it happened but it's a big scandal and all involved parties will be fired and it won't happen again for a while. Austria is pretty much middle of the road in terms of corruption, neither particularly corrupt nor particularly clean compared to other EU countries. A different quality of corruption.

Take this as an example - didn't want to stray off topic here...

[astral]

I don't think it makes much difference what he did, or didn't do, it looks like he will be safe with his millions in the UK. The only crumb of comfort is that the Brits might send him to Coventry

Why should the poor people of Coventry have to suffer him???

[Basslifeform]

our thai wifes have family in the uk too

they should be allowed to enter free of production from imigration

as they have sister inlaws brother inlaws

mother inlaws

they are still our wifes family

no matter how we look at it

send the crap head back to thialand if hes still incharge then he wont mind will he ????

Maybe they're changing the immigration laws back home to allow easier access for our Thai dependents.

One's ability to spell is not a prequisite of contributing to the forum however it does show the level of one's education. There are many who have contributed to the recent threads who could do a lot worse than to to take a refresher course in English (Queens English I might add, not what they speak over the water)

However one's ability to read is pretty important. Sorry for the spelling errors. I'll have to give some - - - - to the person I quoted from. Or maybe you didn't spot that!!

[astral]

Billonaires need no visa(s) - the way of the world!!!

You mean they have and Elite Card in the UK?

[chucky66]

This move by Thaksin shows the fraud that he and the political party he leads really is.

Foreigners cant own property in Thailand and have to jump through all sorts of hoops to stay in Thailand but there he is in our country (UK) with his million pound house in his millionaire district of London with an almost indefinite allowance to stay in our country. And I thought that immigration laws between Thailand and the UK were supposed to be reciprocal?

One rule for Thaksin, another rule for everyone else?

Edited September 21, 2006 by chucky66

[tigerbeer]

This move by Thaksin shows the fraud that he and the political party he leads really is.

Foreigners cant own property in Thailand and have to jump through all sorts of hoops to stay in Thailand but there he is in our country (UK) with his million pound house in his millionaire district of London with an almost indefinite allowance to stay in our country. And I thought that immigration laws between Thailand and the UK were supposed to be reciprocal?

One rule for Thaksin, another rule for everyone else?

instead of all this questions posted up and special treatment for dr. toxin, why not one of you brits confront your immigration or foreign ministry people and ask them for an answer?

[Beachedwhale]

This move by Thaksin shows the fraud that he and the political party he leads really is.

Foreigners cant own property in Thailand and have to jump through all sorts of hoops to stay in Thailand but there he is in our country (UK) with his million pound house in his millionaire district of London with an almost indefinite allowance to stay in our country. And I thought that immigration laws between Thailand and the UK were supposed to be reciprocal?

One rule for Thaksin, another rule for everyone else?

I think Thailand would probably have a similar view if a rich foreign ex-leader came here on his valid 60-day tourist visa (and did not attempt to alter the details on his stamp) and stayed in his expensive condominium. At this time, Thaksin has not been found guilty of any crime and no Thai officials have sought his arrest or extradition so there is no logical reason why he cannot stay in the UK. Just because 75% of the population do not like him as a leader (I believe that was the number in the Bangkok Post today) does not give grounds for him to be refused to holiday in the UK.

I am not from the UK, but I believe it was the democratically elected UK government that set the land ownership laws of which Thaksins family have abided by when purchasing this nice expensive abode. If this law is not suitable for the UK then perhaps it should be changed ... but with sufficient notice and suitable grandfather clauses in place so as not to cause major disruption and confusion...

[joskydive]

Does that mean he has to do 30 day visa runs to Wales?

I hope not, I'm Welsh and we don't want him either

[Rinrada]

This move by Thaksin shows the fraud that he and the political party he leads really is.

Foreigners cant own property in Thailand and have to jump through all sorts of hoops to stay in Thailand but there he is in our country (UK) with his million pound house in his millionaire district of London with an almost indefinite allowance to stay in our country. And I thought that immigration laws between Thailand and the UK were supposed to be reciprocal?

One rule for Thaksin, another rule for everyone else?

I think Thailand would probably have a similar view if a rich foreign ex-leader came here on his valid 60-day tourist visa (and did not attempt to alter the details on his stamp) and stayed in his expensive condominium. At this time, Thaksin has not been found guilty of any crime and no Thai officials have sought his arrest or extradition so there is no logical reason why he cannot stay in the UK. Just because 75% of the population do not like him as a leader (I believe that was the number in the Bangkok Post today) does not give grounds for him to be refused to holiday in the UK.

I am not from the UK, but I believe it was the democratically elected UK government that set the land ownership laws of which Thaksins family have abided by when purchasing this nice expensive abode. If this law is not suitable for the UK then perhaps it should be changed ... but with sufficient notice and suitable grandfather clauses in place so as not to cause major disruption and confusion...

...thats what western style democracy is ALL about and YES we voted,gave our approval,support and maintain it but it didnt come overnight... it took a ...Long-Long-Long Time.

Maybe one day lesser countries might wish to emulate but the conditions are high....possibly a wee bit... TOO High.....however.....qua serra serra.... ...No More .....to the tower ...john...

[Plus]

It seems all of you are forgetting that Thaksin was elected by the people of Thailand.

So what? Generals thought that their choice was against what they think the King wanted for the country, so people got shafted. Thai people do not put their choices above those of the King. They might not mind the corruption Thaksin brought with him, but if the King does, they won't object.

I am NOT trying to bring the Royalty into the discussion. Generals, and especially Prem, can protect Thailand's interests on their own, they don't need to be reminded, like some judges. Also the general perception is that coup was done in the name of the King and the country - yellow ribbons and all that. 86% approval.

They acted extremely professionally and came out cleaner than before the coup. As for democracy - it wasn't allowed to ruin the country this time.

[fruittbatt]

...thats what western style democracy is ALL about and YES we voted,gave our approval,support and maintain it but it didnt come overnight... it took a ...Long-Long-Long Time.

Maybe one day lesser countries might wish to emulate but the conditions are high....possibly a wee bit... TOO High.....however.....qua serra serra.... ...No More .....to the tower ...john...

Excuse me...Thailand is NOT a "lesser country", and the UK and the US are certainly not "higher countries" simply because they have so-called democracies in which some - like the Taksins of this world- are self-evidently much more equal than others..........

Edited September 21, 2006 by fruittbatt

[curber]

This is the business man in me talking....a lot of people here would like to see Thaksin removed from their particular country...look at the facts...he would never get into politics in any of your countries...he wouldn`t be of any more threat than any other very successful business man..and finally it would be an infusion of billions of dollars into the country he stays in.....I doubt very much he wants to stay in a western country anyways...it is "slightly" more difficult to corrupt western governments for his benefit think he will probably just go back to Thailand and continue his life as he pleases,it`s amazing how multi billionaires never seem to end up in jail no matter what the crime.

In response to Thaksin not having anyone in Thailand jump up to support him.The news I`ve seen showed some of his supporters arrested at the Monument for speaking out in support and gathering in a crowd of more than 4 people.I don`t know about the rest of you but I don`t think I would be waving a flag in public for him right now either.Haven`t been in a Thai jail but the public reports don`t portray them as 5 star.

[hammered]

This move by Thaksin shows the fraud that he and the political party he leads really is.

Foreigners cant own property in Thailand and have to jump through all sorts of hoops to stay in Thailand but there he is in our country (UK) with his million pound house in his millionaire district of London with an almost indefinite allowance to stay in our country. And I thought that immigration laws between Thailand and the UK were supposed to be reciprocal?

One rule for Thaksin, another rule for everyone else?

I think Thailand would probably have a similar view if a rich foreign ex-leader came here on his valid 60-day tourist visa (and did not attempt to alter the details on his stamp) and stayed in his expensive condominium. At this time, Thaksin has not been found guilty of any crime and no Thai officials have sought his arrest or extradition so there is no logical reason why he cannot stay in the UK. Just because 75% of the population do not like him as a leader (I believe that was the number in the Bangkok Post today) does not give grounds for him to be refused to holiday in the UK.

I am not from the UK, but I believe it was the democratically elected UK government that set the land ownership laws of which Thaksins family have abided by when purchasing this nice expensive abode. If this law is not suitable for the UK then perhaps it should be changed ... but with sufficient notice and suitable grandfather clauses in place so as not to cause major disruption and confusion...

...thats what western style democracy is ALL about and YES we voted,gave our approval,support and maintain it but it didnt come overnight... it took a ...Long-Long-Long Time.

Maybe one day lesser countries might wish to emulate but the conditions are high....possibly a wee bit... TOO High.....however.....qua serra serra.... ...No More .....to the tower ...john...

But does Thailand really aspire to gain the great heights of US, UK and Australian democracies typified by these countries disregard for international law, penchant for launching illegal invasions and slaughtering tens of thousands of innocent civilians, complete ignorance of any culture but their own, complete disregard for the value of the human life of the other, and complete willingness to ignore their own populations opinion before launching illegal wars ? I kind of hope that Thailand doesnt develop this way, and really find it absurd that anyone would hold the political systems of these three increasingly arrogant but rogue nations up as some kind of role model.

[fruittbatt]

But does Thailand really aspire to gain the great heights of US, UK and Australian democracies typified by these countries disregard for international law, penchant for launching illegal invasions and slaughtering tens of thousands of innocent civilians, complete ignorance of any culture but their own, complete disregard for the value of the human life of the other, and complete willingness to ignore their own populations opinion before launching illegal wars ? I kind of hope that Thailand doesnt develop this way, and really find it absurd that anyone would hold the political systems of these three increasingly arrogant but rogue nations up as some kind of role model.

very well posted. I totally agree that western political-model chauvinism is laughably absurd and inappropriate.

Edited September 21, 2006 by fruittbatt

[Beachedwhale]

Also the general perception is that coup was done in the name of the King and the country - yellow ribbons and all that. 86% approval.

They acted extremely professionally and came out cleaner than before the coup. As for democracy - it wasn't allowed to ruin the country this time.

perhaps with 86% approval we have "More democracy" since the definition I took from the oxford dictionary states:

• noun (pl. democracies) 1 a form of government in which the people have a voice in the exercise of power, typically through elected representatives. 2 a state governed in such a way. 3 control of a group by the majority of its members.

Anyway in my little part of Thailand, it feels much more relaxed than 3 days ago, there is a general (sorry about the pun) feeling that the coup is the right thing for the country, was done very smoothly and will be a better result than the process that was in place last week

... I have never lived in a country in the midst of a political coup and being under military rule, and I must say I feel surprisingly safe and confident about the future ... a strange feeling and extremely hard to explain to my worried family back home reading all of the reports and travel warnings...

[fruittbatt]

perhaps with 86% approval we have "More democracy" since the definition I took from the oxford dictionary states:

• noun (pl. democracies) 1 a form of government in which the people have a voice in the exercise of power, typically through elected representatives. 2 a state governed in such a way. 3 control of a group by the majority of its members.

Anyway in my little part of Thailand, it feels much more relaxed than 3 days ago, there is a general (sorry about the pun) feeling that the coup is the right thing for the country, was done very smoothly and will be a better result than the process that was in place last week

... I have never lived in a country in the midst of a political coup and being under military rule, and I must say I feel surprisingly safe and confident about the future ... a strange feeling and extremely hard to explain to my worried family back home reading all of the reports and travel warnings...

In regard to the last part of your post, yes, I too have perceived a definitely more relaxed atmosphere around Chiang Mai: families eating out and laughing a lot, Thai friends clasping our hands and telling us how happy they are with the new "strong" rule, optimistic sentiments regarding the return of tourist numbers and the resurgence of the baht. It is as if a great weight of anxiety and uncertainty has been lifted from many Thais.

And yes, it is instructive to experience life under military rule - even if these are the honeymoon days. My elderly relatives back in the former country are shocked at our attitudes to the coup, but the younger ones want to experience it themsleves.

Edited September 21, 2006 by fruittbatt

[Rinrada]

...thats what western style democracy is ALL about and YES we voted,gave our approval,support and maintain it but it didnt come overnight... it took a ...Long-Long-Long Time.

Maybe one day lesser countries might wish to emulate but the conditions are high....possibly a wee bit... TOO High.....however.....qua serra serra.... ...No More .....to the tower ...john...

Excuse me...Thailand is NOT a "lesser country", and the UK and the US are certainly not "higher countries" simply because they have so-called democracies in which some - like the Taksins of this world- are self-evidently much more equal than others..........

You got NO OXO cubes or decent wine gums

[terry57]

I don't think it makes much difference what he did, or didn't do, it looks like he will be safe with his millions in the UK. The only crumb of comfort is that the Brits might send him to Coventry

Why should the poor people of Coventry have to suffer him???

"COVENTRY " = to place a punter in coventry means, = not talk to him and ignore him totally usually until a person has mended his wicked ways and apologised for his sinful act.

" COVENTRY " = to make a person incommunicardo, a particularly henious thing to have happen to ones self.

perfect fate for mr toxin.

this saying, to place someone in " coventry " is a very english and many punters on this forum would never ever heard of it.

there you go people, you have learnt something today.

cheers friends

B.T.W. im a bleeding aussie and not a pom.

[kayo]

Throw something on the table here:

If I choose to live in a country under a despot ruler, that`s my choice. I can choose not to.

At least the Despot is proud of his er, despotism, and there are no illusions.

If I choose to live under a democraticaly elected leader who`s interest is the country`s best interests,

well great. If that elected leader is honest.

If he`s a lying, conniving, megalomaniac who`s head has gotten to big for his boots... I`d respect him more for changing the constition and taking control.

But for all the lies and bullsh1t and stealing... Pshh.. I`m off to IRAN.

I hope that makes a bit of sense. I`m saying I`d rather have an honest despot, than a lying scum, as the leader of the country I live in.

[Rinrada]

When I first shook Saddams hands...(he came a visiting) in ooo 1979.... I thought they were pretty clean and he seemed a genunine sort of Chap.........you should have met him.... :so very polite...

[mrtall]

http://www.number-10.gov.uk/output/Page821.asp

tonys 'personal' email

[sriracha john]

"Putting on a good face".... albeit still a square one:

Ousted Thai Prime Minister Thaksin Shinawatra and his daughter Pinthongta leave their apartment in central London. The ousted Thai premier said he was now on "holiday" and was going shopping for groceries. (AFP)

*Request any lewd comments regarding his daugther Pin be avoided*

[suiging]

Perhaps a vote on the most appropriate place for his lordship in the Uk is in order.

I go with sCUNThorpe.

[John K]

Saw Thaksin on the news today. Clothes wrinkle, carrying his own groceries, head still square. It felt good seeing him that way. I just wonder how long before the Brits start with Thaksin get out.

So now the obvious question is what will happen to the TRT people in local offices? Have they scattered?

Edited September 22, 2006 by John K

[marshbags]

"Putting on a good face".... albeit still a square one:

Ousted Thai Prime Minister Thaksin Shinawatra and his daughter Pinthongta leave their apartment in central London. The ousted Thai premier said he was now on "holiday" and was going shopping for groceries. (AFP)

*Request any lewd comments regarding his daugther Pin be avoided*

I agree with the last quote 100%

Certainly no unkind comments or observations on his daughter other than the sort of respectful thoughts we all feel for innocent children, who ever they are.

I do not see Toxin wearing his yellow and blue shirts anymore.

Perhaps he didn,t negotiate there inclusion in his demands and deemed them not important, along with the well being of all the Thai citizens effected by his corrupt policies and his abuse of power.

Maybe he thinks he is not Thai now he,s out of Thailand and doesn,t have to be respectful to his country.

For now anyway.

How lucky he is to be in a country that doesn,t want unreasonable demands, while offering assistance, regarding his ability to do the best for his family, even as a guest ????

If only it could be reciprocated to U.K. citizens and those of similar countries that offer open arms to him.

All we want is a small piece of land and a home for our families and be able to use it as proof of our finacial status and good intentions.

Did Toxin have to get a U.K.sponsors name to put the property investments in, i think not..........

marshbags

[astral]

I don't think it makes much difference what he did, or didn't do, it looks like he will be safe with his millions in the UK. The only crumb of comfort is that the Brits might send him to Coventry

Why should the poor people of Coventry have to suffer him???

"COVENTRY " = to place a punter in coventry means, = not talk to him and ignore him totally usually until a person has mended his wicked ways and apologised for his sinful act.

" COVENTRY " = to make a person incommunicardo, a particularly henious thing to have happen to ones self.

perfect fate for mr toxin.

this saying, to place someone in " coventry " is a very english and many punters on this forum would never ever heard of it.

there you go people, you have learnt something today.

cheers friends

B.T.W. im a bleeding aussie and not a pom.

Thanks for your erudite lesson.

I do know what the expression means, I am a Brit.

It was little sarcasm to say he is not wanted anywhere in the UK, as the gentleman from Wales pointed out.

I find it really interesting that Thaksin sends his daughter to the UK for education.

That really shows how much he cares about Thailand.

Perhaps he should have spent more of his time in power improving the Thai education system?

[zeusbheld]

B.T.W. im a bleeding aussie and not a pom.

did you learn to speak british from a native speaker? what visa did he/she have?

[Jai Dee]

Thaksins' wife, children stay at Chansonglah

Pojaman Shinawatra, the wife of ousted Prime Minister Thaksin Shinawatra, is confirmed to have returned to her residence "Chansonglah" with her two children, Panthongtae and Paethongthan, Friday.

The source also said the three stayed in a safe house in Pahonyothin area after the coup took place on Tuesday night. The reports that they went to Singapore were all rumours to disguise their actual locations.

Earlier newspapers have reported that the three went to Singapore and prepared to fly to London to meet up with Thaksin.

Their second child, Pinthongtha, is currently in London with Thaksin.

Source: The Nation - 22 September 2006

[Rinrada]

and to continue his holiday story.....going shopping...

Incid nearest grocer shop that I can think of must have been the one round in Shepards Market..near the Penthouse Club.....No Tescos...but nice little off license....

THAILAND’S exiled Prime Minister set up residence on Park Lane yesterday and announced that he was taking a “deserved rest” from the turbulent world of politics.

Thaksin Shinawatra called on the coup leaders to hold swift elections and urged all parties to work for national reconciliation.

But the billionaire businessman turned politician gave no indication that he would be returning home or that he planned to run for public office again.

In a statement he said that he would be concentrating on “research and development” and possibly some charitable work for Thailand.

When he was mobbed outside the Dorchester Hotel by dozens of reporters and asked what he planned to do next he replied: “I am going to buy some groceries.”

The Foreign and Commonwealth Office said there were no plans for British officials to meet Mr Thaksin, who is on a “private visit”.

He owns a home in London and some members of his family were already living in the capital before his arrival on Wednesday.

In spite of the low-key response to his being ousted, experts predicted that it was too soon to write off the political career of Thailand’s longest-serving elected prime minister, who still enjoys widespread support in his country.

“This is not a man who likes to lose,” said Thitinan Pongsudhirak, a Thai academic.

“Thaksin’s support runs deep . . . If there is an election supervised by the UN, Thaksin and [his] Thai Rak Thai [Thais Love Thais party] would win.”

[penzman]

and to continue his holiday story.....going shopping...

Incid nearest grocer shop that I can think of must have been the one round in Shepards Market..near the Penthouse Club.....No Tescos...but nice little off license....

THAILAND’S exiled Prime Minister set up residence on Park Lane yesterday and announced that he was taking a “deserved rest” from the turbulent world of politics.

Thaksin Shinawatra called on the coup leaders to hold swift elections and urged all parties to work for national reconciliation.

But the billionaire businessman turned politician gave no indication that he would be returning home or that he planned to run for public office again.

In a statement he said that he would be concentrating on “research and development” and possibly some charitable work for Thailand.

When he was mobbed outside the Dorchester Hotel by dozens of reporters and asked what he planned to do next he replied: “I am going to buy some groceries.”

The Foreign and Commonwealth Office said there were no plans for British officials to meet Mr Thaksin, who is on a “private visit”.

He owns a home in London and some members of his family were already living in the capital before his arrival on Wednesday.

In spite of the low-key response to his being ousted, experts predicted that it was too soon to write off the political career of Thailand’s longest-serving elected prime minister, who still enjoys widespread support in his country.

“This is not a man who likes to lose,” said Thitinan Pongsudhirak, a Thai academic.

“Thaksin’s support runs deep . . . If there is an election supervised by the UN, Thaksin and [his] Thai Rak Thai [Thais Love Thais party] would win.”

According to the following article, he has to come back.

Thaksins' wife, children stay at Chansonglah

Pojaman Shinawatra, the wife of ousted Prime Minister Thaksin Shinawatra, is confirmed to have returned to her residence "Chansonglah" with her two children, Panthongtae and Paethongthan, Friday.

The source also said the three stayed in a safe house in Pahonyothin area after the coup took place on Tuesday night. The reports that they went to Singapore were all rumours to disguise their actual locations.

Earlier newspapers have reported that the three went to Singapore and prepared to fly to London to meet up with Thaksin.

Their second child, Pinthongtha, is currently in London with Thaksin.

The Nation

Edited September 22, 2006 by penzman