Thai politics: Learning how to debate is the first step to democracy

[webfact]

BURNING ISSUE
Learning how to debate is the first step to democracy
PRAVIT ROJANAPHRUK

BANGKOK: -- ALL THE fuss over a high-school student leaving her civics exam paper blank sheds light on Thailand's fragility when it comes to differing political opinions. In a society where tolerance for different opinions is low, the act of a student handing in a blank exam paper becomes big news.

Grade 12 student Nattanan Warintarawet from the prestigious Triam Udom Suksa Preparatory School refused to answer her exam paper, as it was focused on Prime Minister Prayut Chan-o-cha's "12 Thai values". All she did was write her name before handing it in - she later said this was her act of civil disobedience against the coup leader.

In response, a teacher branded Nattanan as being "mentally ill", while others condemned her for ignoring her duties as a student and aiming hate speech at her.

However, some praised her for her courage, while Education Minister Narong Pipattanasai just told the media not to make such a big deal out of it.

Yet, someone posted Nattanan's photo alongside a depiction of the extinct primate Homo erectus on Facebook, in what can only be seen as another sign that a substantial number of Thais are simply unable to hold a rational debate. Thoughts that are even slightly different are often met with dislike or even hatred.

Last week, Nattanan explained her action on Facebook, saying she had done this because the junta was trying to "become the dictator of morality by imposing the '12 values of Thai people' to teach people rights and wrongs".

Her post, written in English, read: "I wonder how such an unrighteous leader could consider himself as the holy bishop of the country, forcing students to unwillingly swallow those values of his.

"I, therefore, refuse to take the exam on this propaganda subject in order to condemn the government's effort to dictate the values of the society."

Those who disagree could do well to argue against her stance rationally, instead of irrationally spitting fire and brimstone. After all, handling political disagreement, debate, deliberation and argument in a calm and rational manner is essential for a free and democratic society.

Maybe this is the time for parents and teachers to start encouraging civil debate and argument on all topics instead of trying to impose one official, "correct" answer on the young. We need to learn how to argue in a civil manner, because it is not just essential for our freedom and democracy, but also for the progress and plurality of society.

The quality of political debate and argument reflects the quality of one's society - and so far, Thailand has failed miserably. Hate speech is being used to drown rational voices, ad hominem is trumping topic-driven argument, while those with opposing views are being branded as evil.

With such irrational rants and hatred, Thailand can hold out little hope for an enlightened society. Unreasonable response to different views will never make this society reasonable.

Source: http://www.nationmultimedia.com/politics/Learning-how-to-debate-is-the-first-step-to-democr-30265452.html


-- The Nation 2015-07-29

[davehowden]

I like her style, good on you kid.

[deckape]

Bravo to both student and journalist.

[noitom]

The Thai child should be applauded. Thais learning to "debate" is a laugher.

[LannaGuy]

"I, therefore, refuse to take the exam on this propaganda subject in order to condemn the government's effort to dictate the values of the society."

If I were her father I'd be bursting with pride at this free-thinking, brave girl, who has more wisdom than some many times her age (and a few brainwashed TVF junta lovin' posters too)

and

"I wonder how such an unrighteous leader could consider himself as the holy bishop of the country, forcing students to unwillingly swallow those values of his.

There IS hope and wouldn't it be wonderful if this is a sign of the next generation? probably just a 'diamond in the rough' but hope not for Thailand's sake.

Proud of her and hope her Spirit stays strong and FREE.

Edited July 29, 2015 by LannaGuy

[clockman]

A shining light, in a sea of murk!

[NongKhaiKid]

Little wonder teachers were freaking out, condemning her etc as she thought for herself and that's not in the curriculum.

[Plutojames88]

Teacher obviously seeks to avoid blame and adjustment camp.

The student might be forced into some human right violation against her though.

Nazi Germany style propaganda in schools is never a good idea.

Though the US makes (lip service ) praise to Thailand in the wake of Tier 3 ....it's actions speak now accurately to what is felt.

The narcissistic nature of psychotic belief in moral righteousness is best addressed with a blank when it's forced on you by someone who thinks free opinion is wrong.

Edited July 29, 2015 by Plutojames88

[Charlie Croker]

The Thai child should be applauded. Thais learning to "debate" is a laugher.

Just to clarify,

The child didn't say Thai's need to learn to debate.

She didn't complete an exam and claimed it was a protest and went on to add she was unhappy with the 12 values being sold by the current government.

The journalist makes the point that Thai's need to learn how to debate in her article. The child is a merely a foil to explain her reasoning.

In regards to the title of the article, ' Learning how to debate is the first step to democracy'

This supposition is wrong.

Learning how to hold free and transparent elections, devoid of corruption or coercion- is the first step to democracy.

Debate is only so much he said, she said - in fact debate is a step backwards; there's been way too much debate in this country.

[jacky54]

'Mentally ill' for having an opinion? An educated girl despite the brainwashing gives hope for others

[CaptHaddock]

The Nation should have supported democracy when Suthep's mob was illegally stopping the 2014 election instead of supporting him.

[jcisco]

The Thai child should be applauded. Thais learning to "debate" is a laugher.

Just to clarify,

The child didn't say Thai's need to learn to debate.

She didn't complete an exam and claimed it was a protest and went on to add she was unhappy with the 12 values being sold by the current government.

The journalist makes the point that Thai's need to learn how to debate in her article. The child is a merely a foil to explain her reasoning.

In regards to the title of the article, ' Learning how to debate is the first step to democracy'

This supposition is wrong.

Learning how to hold free and transparent elections, devoid of corruption or coercion- is the first step to democracy.

Debate is only so much he said, she said - in fact debate is a step backwards; there's been way too much debate in this country.

No that is not correct, direct non representational democracy negates the need of elections. So tell us all again about elections?

Edited July 29, 2015 by jcisco

[Charlie Croker]

The Thai child should be applauded. Thais learning to "debate" is a laugher.

Just to clarify,

The child didn't say Thai's need to learn to debate.

She didn't complete an exam and claimed it was a protest and went on to add she was unhappy with the 12 values being sold by the current government.

The journalist makes the point that Thai's need to learn how to debate in her article. The child is a merely a foil to explain her reasoning.

In regards to the title of the article, ' Learning how to debate is the first step to democracy'

This supposition is wrong.

Learning how to hold free and transparent elections, devoid of corruption or coercion- is the first step to democracy.

Debate is only so much he said, she said - in fact debate is a step backwards; there's been way too much debate in this country.

No that is not correct, direct non representational democracy negates the need of elections. So tell us all again about elections?

I think you misunderstand soldier.

Didn't you read about my decision to avoid debate.

I don't personally care about the way people make their particular choice, whether directly or via representatives. Just the free and uncoerced bit.

[Charlie Croker]

The Thai child should be applauded. Thais learning to "debate" is a laugher.

Just to clarify,

The child didn't say Thai's need to learn to debate.

She didn't complete an exam and claimed it was a protest and went on to add she was unhappy with the 12 values being sold by the current government.

The journalist makes the point that Thai's need to learn how to debate in her article. The child is a merely a foil to explain her reasoning.

In regards to the title of the article, ' Learning how to debate is the first step to democracy'

This supposition is wrong.

Learning how to hold free and transparent elections, devoid of corruption or coercion- is the first step to democracy.

Debate is only so much he said, she said - in fact debate is a step backwards; there's been way too much debate in this country.

No that is not correct, direct non representational democracy negates the need of elections. So tell us all again about elections?

But I think its cute you think that the average Somchai in Thailand (or Joe in the USA, or Fred in The UK) is informed enough to make sound decisions on the minutae of government decision-making in direct referendums.

Its like asking a puppy how many treats it wants. Would you really trust the situation will not end in a pile of vomit on the carpet?

Edited July 29, 2015 by Charlie Croker

[dominique355]

The Thai child should be applauded. Thais learning to "debate" is a laugher.

Just to clarify,

The child didn't say Thai's need to learn to debate.

She didn't complete an exam and claimed it was a protest and went on to add she was unhappy with the 12 values being sold by the current government.

The journalist makes the point that Thai's need to learn how to debate in her article. The child is a merely a foil to explain her reasoning.

In regards to the title of the article, ' Learning how to debate is the first step to democracy'

This supposition is wrong.

Learning how to hold free and transparent elections, devoid of corruption or coercion- is the first step to democracy.

Debate is only so much he said, she said - in fact debate is a step backwards; there's been way too much debate in this country.

I cannot agree with you that elections are the first step. Free and fair elections can only be held AFTER the people allowed to vote have been willing and able to discuss the issue.

People must be able to gather information and other opinions and discuss this. So obviously first all censorship must be stopped. And then, to be able to debate an issue, you also have to learn how to hold a fair discussion.

As longs different opinions are branded as mentally ill and as long as censorship prevents the spreading of different opinions, all we have in Thailand is dictatorship of intolerance.

[jackcharles]

Brave girl, such people can change the world.

[WhizBang]

Bravo to the young lady. However, I am not sure I would call what she did civil disobedience. More like a statement. But then I suppose this could be the subject of debate. Oh right, not in Thailand.

[quandow]

All nations should refer to Newt Gingrich and Bill Clinton. Diametrically opposed as two people could get, yet they rolled up their sleeves and worked towards compromise. The problem with any government ruled by a single minded military man is that compromise is not an option.

[PatOngo]

Debating 101 in LOS.............yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes.................................................................yes.

[tuanku]

Children and young people like this are by no means as rare in Thailand as many people seem to think. I have met hundreds in 11 years working with International and Government schools in Thailand and their numbers are growing. As good, functional English becomes more common and with the increased use of social media and the internet, they are exposed and receptive to a wider range of political and social ideologies than were the norm 20 or even 10 years ago. Certainly they are more informed and opinionated than their more reactionary teachers are comfortable with. Thai society is evolving from the bottom up and the current period of suppressed debate cannot reverse that trend. It is like putting the lid on a pressure cooker - eventually when you take it off again the results are most interesting, and the longer it is left cooking the more the pressure (for change) is liable to build up.

[djjamie]

"Thoughts that are even slightly different are often met with dislike or even hatred"

And that has to change. It is so ingrained in some peoples ethos that it rubs off on some TVF member. You only need to look at some replies to my comments to see the condescension and frustration some adopt due to an inability to debate or challenge the statement.

​I would love to see the show Q&A that Australia have introduced onto Thai TV. Completely unscripted questions to politicians by panel members and the audience. The ability debate is not the start of democracy, but it allows the people to see how strong the politicians grasp and understanding of the issue is. A politician needs to be opinionated, show resolve and conviction. That extends a passion for democracy which is all too lacking in Thailand pre May 2014.

As for the student....Again she has achieved nothing except a big fat fail which will limit her job opportunities. If she was passionate she would graduate, go to university, get a degree in political science, a masters in law and make changes. All she is doing now is ensuring she gets her 5 minutes of fame followed by a low paying job for the rest of her life.

I pity her. Education is critical and she is too young to understand that obviously.

[LannaGuy]

"Thoughts that are even slightly different are often met with dislike or even hatred"

And that has to change. It is so ingrained in some peoples ethos that it rubs off on some TVF member. You only need to look at some replies to my comments to see the condescension and frustration some adopt due to an inability to debate or challenge the statement.

​I would love to see the show Q&A that Australia have introduced onto Thai TV. Completely unscripted questions to politicians by panel members and the audience. The ability debate is not the start of democracy, but it allows the people to see how strong the politicians grasp and understanding of the issue is. A politician needs to be opinionated, show resolve and conviction. That extends a passion for democracy which is all too lacking in Thailand pre May 2014.

As for the student....Again she has achieved nothing except a big fat fail which will limit her job opportunities. If she was passionate she would graduate, go to university, get a degree in political science, a masters in law and make changes. All she is doing now is ensuring she gets her 5 minutes of fame followed by a low paying job for the rest of her life.

I pity her. Education is critical and she is too young to understand that obviously.

she has principals and guts something you will never understand and I predict she will do just fine

[scorecard]

Another point, just who wrote the exam paper?

Regardless of anybody's political beliefs the exam paper should NOT have focused on General Prayut or on any other specific individual.

It should have questioned the students understanding of the broad concepts involved, hopefully as they relate to the concept of a civil society; why aim to develop a civil society, the benefits for all in building and maintaining a civil society, the factors which need constant attention, etc.

IMHO somebody should be demanding answers from the school and the person who wrote the exam paper.

Further, one wonders what the correct answers were? And who has the 'authority' to say what the correct answers are?

There is that argument that Perhaps the school should be ordered to scrap the exam already conducted, because it was inappropriate, and conduct it again with appropriate focus.

Edited July 29, 2015 by scorecard

[MZurf]

I am sure the bogeyman in Dubai is behind this!

[MZurf]

"Thoughts that are even slightly different are often met with dislike or even hatred"

And that has to change. It is so ingrained in some peoples ethos that it rubs off on some TVF member. You only need to look at some replies to my comments to see the condescension and frustration some adopt due to an inability to debate or challenge the statement.

​I would love to see the show Q&A that Australia have introduced onto Thai TV. Completely unscripted questions to politicians by panel members and the audience. The ability debate is not the start of democracy, but it allows the people to see how strong the politicians grasp and understanding of the issue is. A politician needs to be opinionated, show resolve and conviction. That extends a passion for democracy which is all too lacking in Thailand pre May 2014.

As for the student....Again she has achieved nothing except a big fat fail which will limit her job opportunities. If she was passionate she would graduate, go to university, get a degree in political science, a masters in law and make changes. All she is doing now is ensuring she gets her 5 minutes of fame followed by a low paying job for the rest of her life.

I pity her. Education is critical and she is too young to understand that obviously.

Not even this girl's bravery in standing up for her beliefs can you find anything but contempt for!

You disgust me.

Edited July 29, 2015 by MZurf

[jbauer]

"Thoughts that are even slightly different are often met with dislike or even hatred"

And that has to change. It is so ingrained in some peoples ethos that it rubs off on some TVF member. You only need to look at some replies to my comments to see the condescension and frustration some adopt due to an inability to debate or challenge the statement.

​I would love to see the show Q&A that Australia have introduced onto Thai TV. Completely unscripted questions to politicians by panel members and the audience. The ability debate is not the start of democracy, but it allows the people to see how strong the politicians grasp and understanding of the issue is. A politician needs to be opinionated, show resolve and conviction. That extends a passion for democracy which is all too lacking in Thailand pre May 2014.

As for the student....Again she has achieved nothing except a big fat fail which will limit her job opportunities. If she was passionate she would graduate, go to university, get a degree in political science, a masters in law and make changes. All she is doing now is ensuring she gets her 5 minutes of fame followed by a low paying job for the rest of her life.

I pity her. Education is critical and she is too young to understand that obviously.

I knew this student. She is massively smart, she has resources and a supportive family, and she can go anywhere, or do anything, that she wants to. I predict she will be just fine; in fact, probably much better than fine. She certainly doesn't have to be limited by her pathetic environment.

Edited July 29, 2015 by jbauer

[tbthailand]

All nations should refer to Newt Gingrich and Bill Clinton. Diametrically opposed as two people could get, yet they rolled up their sleeves and worked towards compromise. The problem with any government ruled by a single minded military man is that compromise is not an option.

agree with your points, and would add to this...

The problem with any government ruled by a single minded military man is that compromise is not an option.

that actually, under such circumstances, compromise is not an issue at all....

[LannaGuy]

"Thoughts that are even slightly different are often met with dislike or even hatred"

And that has to change. It is so ingrained in some peoples ethos that it rubs off on some TVF member. You only need to look at some replies to my comments to see the condescension and frustration some adopt due to an inability to debate or challenge the statement.

​I would love to see the show Q&A that Australia have introduced onto Thai TV. Completely unscripted questions to politicians by panel members and the audience. The ability debate is not the start of democracy, but it allows the people to see how strong the politicians grasp and understanding of the issue is. A politician needs to be opinionated, show resolve and conviction. That extends a passion for democracy which is all too lacking in Thailand pre May 2014.

As for the student....Again she has achieved nothing except a big fat fail which will limit her job opportunities. If she was passionate she would graduate, go to university, get a degree in political science, a masters in law and make changes. All she is doing now is ensuring she gets her 5 minutes of fame followed by a low paying job for the rest of her life.

I pity her. Education is critical and she is too young to understand that obviously.

I knew this student. She is massively smart, she has resources and a supportive family, and she can go anywhere, or do anything, that she wants to. I predict she will be just fine; in fact, probably much better than fine. She certainly doesn't have to be limited by her pathetic environment.

good for her and God speed...! just what Thailand needs! hope for more like her in future and less with the non-ethics of djjamie

[mikemac]

All nations should refer to Newt Gingrich and Bill Clinton. Diametrically opposed as two people could get, yet they rolled up their sleeves and worked towards compromise. The problem with any government ruled by a single minded military man is that compromise is not an option.

agree with your points, and would add to this...

The problem with any government ruled by a single minded military man is that compromise is not an option.

that actually, under such circumstances, compromise is not an issue at all....

Hilarious ! tb, the most one-eyed poster on this forum talking about compromise ! You have never once admitted to any faults by the Shins and done nothing but attack the present government. And you talk about compromise, what a cowardly hypocrite you are. No cred whatsoever.

[GeorgesAbitbol]

"Thoughts that are even slightly different are often met with dislike or even hatred"

And that has to change. It is so ingrained in some peoples ethos that it rubs off on some TVF member. You only need to look at some replies to my comments to see the condescension and frustration some adopt due to an inability to debate or challenge the statement.

​I would love to see the show Q&A that Australia have introduced onto Thai TV. Completely unscripted questions to politicians by panel members and the audience. The ability debate is not the start of democracy, but it allows the people to see how strong the politicians grasp and understanding of the issue is. A politician needs to be opinionated, show resolve and conviction. That extends a passion for democracy which is all too lacking in Thailand pre May 2014.

As for the student....Again she has achieved nothing except a big fat fail which will limit her job opportunities. If she was passionate she would graduate, go to university, get a degree in political science, a masters in law and make changes. All she is doing now is ensuring she gets her 5 minutes of fame followed by a low paying job for the rest of her life.

I pity her. Education is critical and she is too young to understand that obviously.

Your profile states that you strongly disagree with the junta and coup, but in most of your psots you seem to side with prayut...

This student stands up for what she believes and fight against brainwashing.

Education is critical, but in a country like thailand the schools are just another element in the big picture of failure, brainwashing from youngest age (about politics, thai history, and of course a specific family).

How can she follow your advice if the school she goes to is another propaganda tool?

I praise the students like her and the fellow ones who stand up against this unelected farce.

What good did Prayut do for this country until now? Keep the country quiet? Nothing is worse than appareant quietness...cause the wake up call is most of the time tragic.

Prayut works mainly for the establishment, top brass and higher people...not for the mass