2,100 migrants try to storm Eurotunnel site in Calais

[Lissos]

Whatever else Gaddafi may or may not have been, he was an extremely accurate prophet!

Most of your post agrees with me. However, with a few minor differences.

Removing the strongmen certainly let the cockroaches loose. It is why el Sisi in Egypt is the perfect man for the task in hand right now, no matter how brutal his methods and how much western commentators wring their hands about it as they look on. My difference in view is that we didn't destroy their countries, we simply stood on dog doo doo with a sun dried surface and the inherent sealed stench just under the surface (which you acknowledge Hussein and Gadaffi kept sun baked) released into the air. Libyans and Iraqis destroyed their own nations ultimately, just as the Afghan warlords wrecked their own after Soviet withdrawal. I say that of course not to mean every man, woman and child but clearly enough useless politicians and Islamist fanatics in the populations to cause as much chaos as manifested.

It didn't have to be like that, but obviously the fanatics were very numerous in both places (Hussein and Gadaffi were nutcrackers for good reason it seems). Both (arguably, Iraq far more so than Libya which was 'liberated' then largely abandoned) had a shot at a different method of Governance and they blew it big time, descending into sectarian tribal fueds.

It was the 'Damascus Table' scene from David Lean's Lawrence of Arabia epic, playing out all over again. Afghanistan, to me largely neglected as Libya was but still the inherent corruption of every Afghan in local politics all the way to Karzai, meant that mind boggling amounts of foreign aid cash vanished into 'their' pockets and ISAF military ended up being used like Mamlukes by local governors to fight their tribal fueds.

I hear the theory that creating total chaos was all a sneakily calculated grand strategy but I'm not yet sold on that. Vast numbers of people are too unpredictable to pull something of that scale off, without it going wonky.

Regarding the migration waves, refugees yes but the momentum of a tide can bring all sorts of other things to the beach. The current notion is that the floods coming are all people fleeing chaos at home, when in reality there are people successfully getting into Europe from Gambia, Ghana and all sorts of areas which are not in dire straits in the media assumed sense.

Knocking Gadaffi out certainly wrecked the regulating mechanism from the Libyan coast (the seal on the bottle of Africa, with all that fizz inside) towards Europe, which Gadaffi agreed to police to varying degrees. Now the bandits control the coast. Wide open from southern africa to north africa, with pirates collecting their cash as the only go/stay deciding factor.

From all directions, from the east onto Greek islands and from the south from Libya's coast, it seems we have a mix of genuinely distressed and desperate people mingling at hubs with laid back economic chancers who have spotted an opening they intend to exploit while there is a pity sentiment in our politicians. 200 working age single men from sub saharan Africa?

[Jimbolai]

Anyone who has watched the fly on the wall documentaries following the staff in this area will have found two things. One, the migrants see the whole exercise of sneaking in as a funny game. Not once did I see them distressed or looking afraid or any such thing. It was all beaming smiles and - "ah shucks, I would'a gotten away with it too if it wasn't for those pesky kids and their sniffer dog". Two, because on being softly calmly coaxed out of hiding like a kitten hiding under a bed, they were given a cup of tea (I'm not joking) by Female staff chosen to be compassionate to their aims.

None carry passports intentionally because they know that if they do it can actually mean incarceration and possible deportation. So,they are simply turned around and let loose to go back to their launching spot and try again the next day. Utterly absurd. It is time for our nations to show some backbone and 'deter' them strongly. We're too bloody 'nice' for our own good and our 'understanding' and 'western guilt for being born western' is being used against us. I fully understand why migrants want to do it, but understanding it does not mean we should either encourage it by being softy softy like we do, or resign ourselves to the inevitable like we do.

Where the hell is our leadership in the west? We have career politicians who are intimidated into inaction out of fear of how we look on the "world stage". It is all about 'Brand Britain', above all else. We're seeing floods because they know there is a sentiment to pull up the drawbridge, and they want in for a share in the remaining crumbs of the pie that we have left.

I insist 'our' people's welfare is tended to first above all else, before taking on 1000s of new people from the third world who are not going to find streets paved with Gold in Britain, no complimentary job to walk into, no complimentary housing and a car, and we'll only end up with shanty homes in our few forests, complete with all the trash and filth seen in Calais.

edit : correcting spelling.

Ahay, is there perhaps some justice from Europeans having invaded Africa and called it their very own? Perhaps it is now time to take care of their very own.

[cookee68]

What i dont understand is that they flee their own country out of fear, so once they are out of their own country the fear factor is gone so why don't they settle in the first safe country they come to, we all know it is because of the stupid UK policy to give hand outs and houses to every one except our own lately, why don,t the government wake up and smell the shit, and if the human rights are so concerned why don't they sponsor them and take care of them, and most of the human rights over in the UK are foreigners that have received a British passport. Invest more into keeping our island safer, and keep the scum out, look at the way they reacted with violence last week with the truckers, Who wants that in their country, we already have enough as it is,

[NongKhaiKid]

What i dont understand is that they flee their own country out of fear, so once they are out of their own country the fear factor is gone so why don't they settle in the first safe country they come to, we all know it is because of the stupid UK policy to give hand outs and houses to every one except our own lately, why don,t the government wake up and smell the shit, and if the human rights are so concerned why don't they sponsor them and take care of them, and most of the human rights over in the UK are foreigners that have received a British passport. Invest more into keeping our island safer, and keep the scum out, look at the way they reacted with violence last week with the truckers, Who wants that in their country, we already have enough as it is,

Isn't there something about supposedly applying for refugee status in the first country they arrive in ? Of course they want to get to the country with the best welfare benefits and where the do gooders will support them not to mention where the politicians are weak and afraid to take decisive measures.

Amazingly these migrants, especially those who have crossed the Med, manage to travel the length of France apparently unhindered and without fear of arrest and deportation. Each French region seems happy just to see them continue on northwards.

[webfact]

RELATED TOPIC

France deploys riot police to bolster Calais security

ELAINE GANLEY, Associated Press
LORI HINNANT, Associated Press

CALAIS, France (AP) — The young Afghan has tried every single day for three months to get into the railway tunnel in Calais leading to England and what he hopes will be a better life. For him, like the dozens who appeared as darkness fell, Wednesday would be the same even if their numbers were immeasurably larger than even a week ago.

Full story: http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/844423-france-deploys-riot-police-to-bolster-calais-tunnel-security/

[superal]

So they have the money to boost security of the tunnel.

Why not use this money to round up those poor unfortunate immigrants and ship them back?

According to OP they are not in hiding but camping outside Caleis.

Arrested 200 out of 2,100? More troubles to come.

The big problem is that unless they can prove where you are from, passport, documents etc. Then they have no know country to deport them to. This has been a constant issue. So once in an E.U. country, and with no record of where to deport them to, they have to 'settle them'.

We then have the issue of, moving them away from Calais to another region in France, this was done before, and they only jump in a train and come back, so a total waist of time.

Big problem and no one has the solution.

The problem is easily solved by taking a leaf from the Australian book where unsuccessful asylum seekers are taken to Cambodia under a political and financial

agreement . A similar arrangement is achievable for non passport holders . It ain't rocket science but no doubt it would be challenged by the human rights

brigade who have a lot to answer for . Time to take off the kid gloves and get real . If the UK government were a private enterprise the CEO ( Cameron ) would

have been dismissed for incompetence .

[JockPieandBeans]

In 2006, the then Home Secretary John Reid called the UKBA unfit for purpose and an utter shambles.

Home Secretary John Reid has damned his department's immigration operation as "not fit for purpose" with "inadequate" leadership and management systems.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/politics/5007148.stm

2015 and nothing has changed.

It is time to invoke M.A.C.A.

Deploy troops to every Port and point of entry to the UK and let them deal with this crisis.

[Ace of Pop]

Germany tried to invade once and were successfully repelled.

[Lissos]

What i dont understand is that they flee their own country out of fear, so once they are out of their own country the fear factor is gone so why don't they settle in the first safe country they come to, we all know it is because of the stupid UK policy to give hand outs and houses to every one except our own lately,

I think the answer is known already. It is, why settle for less when there might be the possibility of more? I fully get it. For someone who has crossed a vast expanse of the earth or sea and dodged many obstacles already, it is irrational for them to halt when there is a Government just a tad (in comparison to distances already crossed) further north more sympathetic (never mind the population, our concerns are seen as irrelevant) and less hardline and clinical in how it treats infiltration attempts.

Much of it is based on Dick Whittington tales though, as I've met a fair nunber of these folks in various countries, who come out with tales they've been told about the state if affairs in Britain at the moment.

There really is a belief that the streets are paved with gold (not potholes), that you'll just walk into a job, that the NHS is Free (I tell them - "No, it isn't free. Me and other taxpayers pay for it and if you get in illegally you probably won't be able to access it anyway") and the rest.

Somebody has an interest in feeding them this, and it is probably the gangsters taking big money for organising the journey from asia or africa.

Many of these folks I met are good enough folks, but as much as they see it as a game, I'm equally passionate that they won't become another drag on an already struggling nation. It is nothing personal, it is everything 'practical', both for me and family and also about what they'll find.

I put it this way. If I was in their shoes, I would do what it would take. I would try and circumvent law enforcement, I would try it all but simultaneously I would fully understand why the population would resist.

One of the other rumours among them is that the British are kind and tolerant people, more than Italians or French or others. On the one hand, flattering. On the other hand, an example of how a reputation can come back to bite us. I always try to introduce sone reality to these fo!ks, that Government are cracking down, that unemployment is high, that companies are hiring less staff or only on short term contracts, that housing (even to rent, never mind buy) is becoming astronomical, that the health service is under pressure, etc etc. To me, this is as much part of the dissuasion as posting guards on a wall. If it works or nit, I don't know but along with a personal interest in protecting our own people's slice of the pie, believe it or not I also don't want to see these people duped either and end up in a highly disappointing anti climax they cannot reverse, because they are.

Earlier in the year al Jazeera interviewed a number of successful migrants from sub Saharan Africa who had crossed from Libya abd made it to areas like Italy. I remember one from Gambia (not a warzone) who was now living in a public park, struggling just to eat enough each day. He was imploring others not to make the crossing, firstly because of the danger of the crossing but mainly because the streets just were not paved with gold, there was no work and the atmosphere was hostile. He missed his culture and family already, but now he was stuck - a case of out of the frying pan but into a fire.

[Transporter]

They are not fleeing from any threat whatsoever. They are going to a more prosperous country to steal, mug, rape and ruin. They are the lowest form of human life and should all be moved to a deserted island and left there. A lesson to others from where they came from. It would soon stop. Shame the pansy turd governments of UK and France don't have the balls.

[little mary sunshine]

Fill the Euro tunnel with these migrants, only way out

Is aboard prison busses, to ships an back to N Africa

[simple1]

So they have the money to boost security of the tunnel.

Why not use this money to round up those poor unfortunate immigrants and ship them back?

According to OP they are not in hiding but camping outside Caleis.

Arrested 200 out of 2,100? More troubles to come.

The big problem is that unless they can prove where you are from, passport, documents etc. Then they have no know country to deport them to. This has been a constant issue. So once in an E.U. country, and with no record of where to deport them to, they have to 'settle them'.

We then have the issue of, moving them away from Calais to another region in France, this was done before, and they only jump in a train and come back, so a total waist of time.

Big problem and no one has the solution.

The problem is easily solved by taking a leaf from the Australian book where unsuccessful asylum seekers are taken to Cambodia under a political and financial

agreement . A similar arrangement is achievable for non passport holders . It ain't rocket science but no doubt it would be challenged by the human rights

brigade who have a lot to answer for . Time to take off the kid gloves and get real . If the UK government were a private enterprise the CEO ( Cameron ) would

have been dismissed for incompetence .

Wrong. The Oz / Cambodian agreement only applies to those who are positively vetted as asylum seekers by Oz government and agreed by Cambodia. Under international law, as vetted asylum seekers they cannot be forcibly transferred to Cambo or any other country. So far only a very small number have agreed to transfer to Cambodia.

Edited July 30, 2015 by simple1

[jpinx]

The immigrants are deliberately travelling without passports, so their country of origin can not be confirmed. The French need to screen them, identify their native land by linguistics, and ship them home. Some countries are still on the EU's dangerous places list, but that should be changed soon if the moves in Germany are anything to go by. It beggars belief that so many thousands of non-eu economic migrants are travelling across EU without papers but without hindrance.

[Basil B]

Never should have built that tunnel in the first place.

The issue is not just the Tunnel but also the ferries...

Since the industrial action few last weeks where French strikers blockaded the port with barricades of burning tyres causing queues of traffic where by the immigrants have been breaking into stationary or slow moving traffic has caused this problem to escalate.

In the UK such actions are illegal and the British police would have stopped it, also these migrants are no doubt illegal in France but the French police and government do nothing about it not even arresting them for the criminal damage to the trucks, etc.

I presume if the French police are told to do their job they will go on strike...

[ABCer]

The hand wringing hypocrisy of The West and their politicians is so predictable. They took the decision to overthrow the government in Libya under false pretenses, ie, they were just going to enforce a no fly zone. Anyone with an ounce of common sense could have predicted the outcome. A vacuum created which inevitably would be filled by radical Islamic militants, Libya now has gone from one of the richest countries in Africa, a secular society with modern infrastructure and a leader who gave no quarter to Al Qaeda and other offshoot Islamic militants, to absolute chaos and anarchy with various lunatic factions running amok, destabilizing not just Libya but most of North Africa. The recent terrorist attack in Tunisia was carried out by people who trained in Libya. Gaddafi was the first leader to warn of the dangers of Al Qaeda and to call for the arrest of Bin Laden, well before 9-11. He had first hand experience of dealing with them, and did a good job of keeping them in their box. As did Saddam Hussain in Iraq. Of course the methods used were not pretty but they were effective. They were doing to these Islamic fanatics, (of whom ISIS are the latest offshoots), exactly what most posters on here are now calling for the West to do to ISIS, ie, putting them down and not allowing them even the slightest foothold. Well as the old saying goes, 'You reap what you sow'.The indisputable consequences of the West's 'adventures' in the Middle East and North Africa are now on show for all to see. It was obvious to anyone with half a brain cell that this would happen, but they went ahead and did it anyway. The only conclusions that can possibly be drawn is that either Western Leaders didn't care, or this has been the plan all along. Keep these countries in permanent chaos because that is what suits some countries geo political interests. Can anyone really, with hand on heart, look at Libya and Iraq now and say that the average person on the street is better off now that we have destroyed their countries than they were under Gaddafi and Hussain? Only the terminally deluded could possibly think that. Or are the citizens of the US and Europe safer and more secure? Of course not. Time to put the blame on the refugee crisis squarely where it belongs, on our political leaders who deliberately created the conditions for this crisis to occur. They shouldn't be allowed to get away with it. They can't blame 'unforeseen consequences', they were told this would happen. Should have heeded the warnings from Gaddafi, even if they had to hold their noses whilst doing so!

http://www.express.co.uk/news/world/233238/Colonel-Gaddafi-Immigrants-will-invade-Europe

http://migrantsatsea.org/2011/03/07/gaddafi-if-libya-is-threatened-thousands-of-immigrants-will-invade-europe-from-libya/

Whatever else Gaddafi may or may not have been, he was an extremely accurate prophet!

If you remember A. Dumas "Three musketeers" with all its sequels you might recall Cardinal Mazarin

making his enemies cry: "Mazarin is a thief, but we will miss him when he is gone". Or something close to this...

Before our Mods remove my post as not related to OP I will suggest the following:

# Reza Pahlavi was a tyrant, but Iranians are missing him dearly;

# Saddam Hussein was a bad man, but Iraqis are probably missing him too;

# Gaddafi was a tyrant, but I bet you anything Libyans are missing him by now;

# Assad is not a model of a ruler, but soon Syrians will remember him fondly;

# There are many more other regions of the World where instability and misery runs amok...

I have too much respect for the Western Leaders to believe they are stupid or cannot see the obvious.

Who has benefited from the misery and instability of these countries?

What is the plan?

Where are we going?

Who let a hoard of 45 M Muslims into Europe?

Why a marvel of modern engineering like a Eurotunnel becomes a curse?

Did anybody calculated the real risk and possible consequences of a terrorist attack against the tunnel?

[micmichd]

Time to start shooting

or nuke the Euro tunnel, it's obsolete anyway when UK leaves EU.

Leaves EU ? to go where ? float to USA ? it's true it's easy for them, they are an island , more difficult when it's a continent

Maybe start with:

Leave the administrations of factories and brands in the manufacturing countries, then migrants have less reasons to emigrate.

For political refugees it might be helpful to reconsider the borders drawn at the Vienna congress, they cut ethnic groups and families in pieces and merged conflicting cultures into colonies.

Forget about EU, it's a dead horse.

[Scott]

An inflammatory post has been removed.

[Saradoc1972]

The immigrants are deliberately travelling without passports, so their country of origin can not be confirmed. The French need to screen them, identify their native land by linguistics, and ship them home. Some countries are still on the EU's dangerous places list, but that should be changed soon if the moves in Germany are anything to go by. It beggars belief that so many thousands of non-eu economic migrants are travelling across EU without papers but without hindrance.

Absolutely. Do away with Schengen, I don't mind waiting some 10 minutes at some border, if in fact I have to cross one. Denmark does it on an "irregular" basis, the results speak for themselves.

So did the results in Germany when they reintroduced border-controls for the G-7 summit down-south in Bavaria.

Deal with anyone calling out "asylum" as the single word they know of a foreign language out within a month, unless they are from a recognized war-zone, chuck the criminals out, no matter what.

Do you realize third world countries see our western asylum policy as a way to empty their jails and psychiatric wards?

As in: can't send that blighter back, he can't get treatment for his condition down there. He is not not entitled to any treatment whatsoever under our national health scheme, but never mind.

Build some large camps in what's left of Libya with lots of barbed-wire and even mine fields around them, chuck everyone concealing his nationality in there on a diet of rice and beans until he remembers where he came from.

[cookee68]

What i dont understand is that they flee their own country out of fear, so once they are out of their own country the fear factor is gone so why don't they settle in the first safe country they come to, we all know it is because of the stupid UK policy to give hand outs and houses to every one except our own lately, why don,t the government wake up and smell the shit, and if the human rights are so concerned why don't they sponsor them and take care of them, and most of the human rights over in the UK are foreigners that have received a British passport. Invest more into keeping our island safer, and keep the scum out, look at the way they reacted with violence last week with the truckers, Who wants that in their country, we already have enough as it is,

Isn't there something about supposedly applying for refugee status in the first country they arrive in ? Of course they want to get to the country with the best welfare benefits and where the do gooders will support them not to mention where the politicians are weak and afraid to take decisive measures.

Amazingly these migrants, especially those who have crossed the Med, manage to travel the length of France apparently unhindered and without fear of arrest and deportation. Each French region seems happy just to see them continue on northwards.

Exactly, then they want to blame the UK and say it is their problem, why did they not stop them entering France in the beginning, as that was their problem, now they want to pas the buck, and they do nothing no wonder they constantly try to come over here,

[cookee68]

What i dont understand is that they flee their own country out of fear, so once they are out of their own country the fear factor is gone so why don't they settle in the first safe country they come to, we all know it is because of the stupid UK policy to give hand outs and houses to every one except our own lately,

I think the answer is known already. It is, why settle for less when there might be the possibility of more? I fully get it. For someone who has crossed a vast expanse of the earth or sea and dodged many obstacles already, it is irrational for them to halt when there is a Government just a tad (in comparison to distances already crossed) further north more sympathetic (never mind the population, our concerns are seen as irrelevant) and less hardline and clinical in how it treats infiltration attempts.

Much of it is based on Dick Whittington tales though, as I've met a fair nunber of these folks in various countries, who come out with tales they've been told about the state if affairs in Britain at the moment.

There really is a belief that the streets are paved with gold (not potholes), that you'll just walk into a job, that the NHS is Free (I tell them - "No, it isn't free. Me and other taxpayers pay for it and if you get in illegally you probably won't be able to access it anyway") and the rest.

Somebody has an interest in feeding them this, and it is probably the gangsters taking big money for organising the journey from asia or africa.

Many of these folks I met are good enough folks, but as much as they see it as a game, I'm equally passionate that they won't become another drag on an already struggling nation. It is nothing personal, it is everything 'practical', both for me and family and also about what they'll find.

I put it this way. If I was in their shoes, I would do what it would take. I would try and circumvent law enforcement, I would try it all but simultaneously I would fully understand why the population would resist.

One of the other rumours among them is that the British are kind and tolerant people, more than Italians or French or others. On the one hand, flattering. On the other hand, an example of how a reputation can come back to bite us. I always try to introduce sone reality to these fo!ks, that Government are cracking down, that unemployment is high, that companies are hiring less staff or only on short term contracts, that housing (even to rent, never mind buy) is becoming astronomical, that the health service is under pressure, etc etc. To me, this is as much part of the dissuasion as posting guards on a wall. If it works or nit, I don't know but along with a personal interest in protecting our own people's slice of the pie, believe it or not I also don't want to see these people duped either and end up in a highly disappointing anti climax they cannot reverse, because they are.

Earlier in the year al Jazeera interviewed a number of successful migrants from sub Saharan Africa who had crossed from Libya abd made it to areas like Italy. I remember one from Gambia (not a warzone) who was now living in a public park, struggling just to eat enough each day. He was imploring others not to make the crossing, firstly because of the danger of the crossing but mainly because the streets just were not paved with gold, there was no work and the atmosphere was hostile. He missed his culture and family already, but now he was stuck - a case of out of the frying pan but into a fire.

I understand what you are saying, but they also show their true colours against others when they don't get their own way, look at many of the lorry drivers that have even been attacked by many of them, is this the sort of people you want in your country, i think not, the UK has enough as it is, why dont the government enforce stricter measures, instead of the softly softly approach. We are a small island, and can not keep allowing our system to be exploited, as sad as everything is, charity begins at home, we have many people who are UK citizens that struggle to survive, and even feed their family, we have food banks and hand outs for our own citizens, so why should we shoulder the burden of other people not from the UK, I believe we should put more money into our border control, and deduct it from the billions of international aids that we hand out to other countries every year.