Legal Status of these so called digital nomad?

[rwdrwdrwd]

That is a funny reason, as if your neighbors and society in general (?) even care what you or other foreigners do for money. Many local people I talk to don't even know there are restrictions on emploment of foreigners as it has no direct affect on them. I know your type so kind of understand.

Trust me - they do care, from civil servants, doctors and teachers to ordinary villagers and tuk tuk drivers.

They all know the difference between Westerners - and foreigners in general - who respect Thai laws, customs and religion, and those who do not. They can easily differentiate between those who dress improperly - shirtless in the centre of Chiang Mai - and those who dress politely. They respect foreigners who learn to speak Thai, and still more those who can read and write.

This is Thailand. Fit in to Thai society, emulating what is best and eschewing corruption - like failing to pay taxes, working without a work permit and so on at the lower end of the scale - and you may very well succeed and prosper here.

Digital nomads, by the very nature of their work (which is inherently offshore income derived from remote, non Thai sources), regardless of whether they require a WP or not, are not liable on Thai income tax on that income unless they bring it into Thailand in the same year they earn it. The same as with any other Thai tax resident that has offshore income.

As for the inference that all of them 'do not respect that laws, customs and religion', 'don't speak thai', and go 'shirtless in the centre of Chiang Mai' - that's just baseless bluster and prejudice.

Edited August 4, 2015 by rwdrwdrwd

[bangmai]

A Digital Nomad is a trashpacker with a smartphone. If they really had the credentials, they would be making 120K USD per year+, and not on here complaining about the wi-fi in their 4000 THB per month apartment. My brother-in-law just got a new job in computers with a DOW component. He has the credentials and experience, but he would be the first to say he was very lucky, at his mid-50s age....they like them younger. But he has a BSEE and an MBA....the Nomads couldn't pass freshmen Physics.

[rwdrwdrwd]

Some of them are making a lot more than that and are better qualified than your brother-in-law, with 20 - 30 years on him. I see new remote work available at that rate every day, it is not a high end salary for a senior programmer. In fact it is a bad one for a DOW component, that's within the bounds of a starting salary for a 21 year old at Apple, Microsoft or Intel.

Some of them are of course skint, as with many other types of expats, but I haven't personally observed reams of DNs referencing budget apartments on here. That tends to be retirees and teachers from what I have seen.

Edited August 10, 2015 by rwdrwdrwd

[SoiBiker]

You'd think from the amount some posters mention them that the poverty-stricken, mama noodle eating digital nomads were all over this forum - but I don't recall ever actually reading a post by one.

[bangmai]

Some of them are making a lot more than that and are better qualified than your brother-in-law, with 20 - 30 years on him. I see new remote work available at that rate every day, it is not a high end salary for a senior programmer. In fact it is a bad one for a DOW component, that's within the bounds of a starting salary for a 21 year old at Apple, Microsoft or Intel.

Some of them are of course skint, as with many other types of expats, but I haven't personally observed reams of DNs referencing budget apartments on here. That tends to be retirees and teachers from what I have seen.

You've got to consider location. 140K on the peninsula, is about like 90, even in the DC area, which ain't cheap, at all. How do you think working at Zynga or Groupon is nowadays? Or even Twitter? Look how some of the high flyers fared last time. A friend was working at Sun, and a guy in his group bought a 2 million house on the premises of Mt. Vernon.....he lost everything, including his wife, credit, and dignity. Stock went from 63 to 3 +/-. HP got rid of their senior people like garbage, and had Russians sleeping on bunkbeds in rented apartments doing the same work for 1/8th the pay. AOL? LOL.

[rwdrwdrwd]

Sure, but not sure how this is relevant. 120k working remotely from Thailand beats all living in US options, and is perfectly feasible - some digital nomads do this, and they certainly aren't complaining about wifi in a 4k a month apartment.

The decent engineers from Twitter, Groupon or Zynga moved elsewhere to be honest, they remain well in demand and have reams of options including working remotely from anywhere. In regard to 'last time' - I honestly don't see a crash of the same level coming again specific to IT, we're over the bump there imo - the internet is now far more proven and engrained in society, it's no longer a wild west land-grab.

Edited August 10, 2015 by rwdrwdrwd

[TheRascal]

I've never known anyone other than bloggers refer to themselves as "digital nomads" anyway, and generally they are the ones earning little to nothing although there are exceptions.

[bangmai]

Sure, but not sure how this is relevant. 120k working remotely from Thailand beats all living in US options, and is perfectly feasible - some digital nomads do this, and they certainly aren't complaining about wifi in a 4k a month apartment.

The decent engineers from Twitter, Groupon or Zynga moved elsewhere to be honest, they remain well in demand and have reams of options including working remotely from anywhere. In regard to 'last time' - I honestly don't see a crash of the same level coming again specific to IT, we're over the bump there imo - the internet is now far more proven and engrained in society, it's no longer a wild west land-grab.

Also a big difference in "IT Guys" and "Engineers." I've known some engineers, who hated to be called IT Guys, and would really read the riot act about that. OTOH, I've known many persons, who were perfectly happy being called IT Guys, and making 70-80K as Federal Contractors, but in reality, they were the ones who were struggling in high school Algebra. Sure, computer engineers can work remotely, just as easily as a person from India could do the work for them for five cents on the Dollar. And people have actually done that, too. At best, the Digital Nomads in CNX are underemployed IT Guys, and for every one I've met here, who was in the top of their field; I met 50, who weren't making squat. BTW, just the other day I read this current Milineal generation is the lowest paid since 1980. I just hate to see people distort reality about earnings and wages, just like a lot of people resent all the live cheap/retire cheap in Thailand...JC and company, etc.. The SEC recently stated that 3 out of 4 Forex traders loose money and you can add them to the gold coin collectors, and the day traders. I'm actually a lot more concerned about new alcohol regulations than what Thai Embassy-Vientiane is going to start telling these people on their third and fourth trip to their office. I would suggest that you just run some of these websites through www.scamaudit.com and it will give you a much truer picture of reality.

[SoiBiker]

You've met 50 underemployed nomadic IT guys in Chiang Mai?

Were they having a party or something?

[rwdrwdrwd]

Sure, but not sure how this is relevant. 120k working remotely from Thailand beats all living in US options, and is perfectly feasible - some digital nomads do this, and they certainly aren't complaining about wifi in a 4k a month apartment.

The decent engineers from Twitter, Groupon or Zynga moved elsewhere to be honest, they remain well in demand and have reams of options including working remotely from anywhere. In regard to 'last time' - I honestly don't see a crash of the same level coming again specific to IT, we're over the bump there imo - the internet is now far more proven and engrained in society, it's no longer a wild west land-grab.

Also a big difference in "IT Guys" and "Engineers." I've known some engineers, who hated to be called IT Guys, and would really read the riot act about that. OTOH, I've known many persons, who were perfectly happy being called IT Guys, and making 70-80K as Federal Contractors, but in reality, they were the ones who were struggling in high school Algebra. Sure, computer engineers can work remotely, just as easily as a person from India could do the work for them for five cents on the Dollar. And people have actually done that, too. At best, the Digital Nomads in CNX are underemployed IT Guys, and for every one I've met here, who was in the top of their field; I met 50, who weren't making squat. BTW, just the other day I read this current Milineal generation is the lowest paid since 1980. I just hate to see people distort reality about earnings and wages, just like a lot of people resent all the live cheap/retire cheap in Thailand...JC and company, etc.. The SEC recently stated that 3 out of 4 Forex traders loose money and you can add them to the gold coin collectors, and the day traders. I'm actually a lot more concerned about new alcohol regulations than what Thai Embassy-Vientiane is going to start telling these people on their third and fourth trip to their office. I would suggest that you just run some of these websites through www.scamaudit.com and it will give you a much truer picture of reality.

That just highlights that whilst you're saying a lot, you aren't really talking from an informed perspective.

If a 'person from India' can do the work (ie - equal quality work) for 5 cents on the dollar, why on earth is there an enormous market for software engineers with salaries rising to 500k USD and beyond? Why are the big companies that outsourced leaning toward bringing everything back in house, and extensively offering visa sponsorship on 100k+ roles?

The truth is that traditional outsourcing is a false economy - the good engineers in India generally leave and earn western rates, or do so remotely, independently, for 10x the wages - I know a Sri Lankan that's on 150k US working from home. Those that remain in the offshoring cubicle farms are on the whole badly skilled and inexperienced workers, that bear the sole benefit of being cheap, which is rarely the factor that is most important.

I am talking from experience, having been a software engineer for close to 20 years, including stints at DOW, Nasdaq and FTSE companies, and having 10 years experience working remotely.

Edited August 10, 2015 by rwdrwdrwd

[Throatwobbler]

A Digital Nomad is a trashpacker with a smartphone. If they really had the credentials, they would be making 120K USD per year+, and not on here complaining about the wi-fi in their 4000 THB per month apartment. My brother-in-law just got a new job in computers with a DOW component. He has the credentials and experience, but he would be the first to say he was very lucky, at his mid-50s age....they like them younger. But he has a BSEE and an MBA....the Nomads couldn't pass freshmen Physics.

Thanks for proving how completely clueless you are. Just an old guy shouting about the youth of today.

Edited August 10, 2015 by Throatwobbler

[Throatwobbler]

You've met 50 underemployed nomadic IT guys in Chiang Mai?

Were they having a party or something?

Of course he hasn't. Just his normal nonsense bluster.

[bangmai]

A Digital Nomad is a trashpacker with a smartphone. If they really had the credentials, they would be making 120K USD per year+, and not on here complaining about the wi-fi in their 4000 THB per month apartment. My brother-in-law just got a new job in computers with a DOW component. He has the credentials and experience, but he would be the first to say he was very lucky, at his mid-50s age....they like them younger. But he has a BSEE and an MBA....the Nomads couldn't pass freshmen Physics.

Thanks for proving how completely clueless you are. Just an old guy shouting about the youth of today.

I've been around the computer business since the day I was born. My father worked for Univac. But, as someone else stated, these people ("Digital Nomads") are basically "bloggers" and not real computer professionals. Not disputing one's ability to work remotely, but I am doubting the large majority's ability to make "real" money engaging in what they promote; travel blogs, internet stores, website building (unless they are tops), multi-level marketing, video game testing......mostly a big pile of shiite, and out the other side of their mouth, they might mention that they are working for 25K THB per month as a teacher (without proper paperwork, of course). Three homes ago, I sold to an engineer from Jabil. Jabil is a large supplier to INTC and AAPL. I even carried the guy's mortgage while they sold their other house. Those companies move to places like Phoenix and New Mexico, and Vietnam because they can get away with paying less, not more. For every high salary at those companies, you got quite a few subcontractors being paid less than US minimum wage, and then there are the suicide nets at, at least, one of the AAPL factories. But, it's the greatest company ever, and the CEO is out of the closet, so let's celebrate "perversity" and forget about the slave labor.

[balo]

A Digital Nomad is a trashpacker with a smartphone. If they really had the credentials, they would be making 120K USD per year+, and not on here complaining about the wi-fi in their 4000 THB per month apartment. My brother-in-law just got a new job in computers with a DOW component. He has the credentials and experience, but he would be the first to say he was very lucky, at his mid-50s age....they like them younger. But he has a BSEE and an MBA....the Nomads couldn't pass freshmen Physics.

Thanks for proving how completely clueless you are. Just an old guy shouting about the youth of today.

I've been around the computer business since the day I was born. My father worked for Univac. But, as someone else stated, these people ("Digital Nomads") are basically "bloggers" and not real computer professionals. Not disputing one's ability to work remotely, but I am doubting the large majority's ability to make "real" money engaging in what they promote; travel blogs, internet stores, website building (unless they are tops), multi-level marketing, video game testing......mostly a big pile of shiite, and out the other side of their mouth, they might mention that they are working for 25K THB per month as a teacher (without proper paperwork, of course). Three homes ago, I sold to an engineer from Jabil. Jabil is a large supplier to INTC and AAPL. I even carried the guy's mortgage while they sold their other house. Those companies move to places like Phoenix and New Mexico, and Vietnam because they can get away with paying less, not more. For every high salary at those companies, you got quite a few subcontractors being paid less than US minimum wage, and then there are the suicide nets at, at least, one of the AAPL factories. But, it's the greatest company ever, and the CEO is out of the closet, so let's celebrate "perversity" and forget about the slave labor.

I have to disagree with you here, maybe the time is running away from you?

I have worked remotely since 2008 , we worked both in a team and then I went solo and worked as a digital nomad when I moved away from my home country, I deliver IT support remotely and I have a customer base, even if my income is not as high as it used to be , I have no problems to live on it here in Thailand.

[bangmai]

Depends on what kind of support you offer, but even calling most technical support jobs "technology jobs," is a misnomer. "Press control, alt, delete..." and "unplug your machine".....two of my favorites. You could list a job in the states for an A+ Certified technician for 10 USD per hour, and get 100 applicants in most markets. I've worked for school districts, where custodians were starting out at a higher wage than PC Techs, and clearly a person knowledgeable with toilet repair can earn more. If it works for you, that's great.

[ColdSingha]

A Digital Nomad is a trashpacker with a smartphone. If they really had the credentials, they would be making 120K USD per year+, and not on here complaining about the wi-fi in their 4000 THB per month apartment. My brother-in-law just got a new job in computers with a DOW component. He has the credentials and experience, but he would be the first to say he was very lucky, at his mid-50s age....they like them younger. But he has a BSEE and an MBA....the Nomads couldn't pass freshmen Physics.

120K per year is peanuts for a skilled online entrepreneur/nomad. try per month, in your pants, from the beach

[ColdSingha]

A Digital Nomad is a trashpacker with a smartphone. If they really had the credentials, they would be making 120K USD per year+, and not on here complaining about the wi-fi in their 4000 THB per month apartment. My brother-in-law just got a new job in computers with a DOW component. He has the credentials and experience, but he would be the first to say he was very lucky, at his mid-50s age....they like them younger. But he has a BSEE and an MBA....the Nomads couldn't pass freshmen Physics.

Thanks for proving how completely clueless you are. Just an old guy shouting about the youth of today.

I've been around the computer business since the day I was born. My father worked for Univac. But, as someone else stated, these people ("Digital Nomads") are basically "bloggers" and not real computer professionals. Not disputing one's ability to work remotely, but I am doubting the large majority's ability to make "real" money engaging in what they promote; travel blogs, internet stores, website building (unless they are tops), multi-level marketing, video game testing......mostly a big pile of shiite, and out the other side of their mouth, they might mention that they are working for 25K THB per month as a teacher (without proper paperwork, of course). Three homes ago, I sold to an engineer from Jabil. Jabil is a large supplier to INTC and AAPL. I even carried the guy's mortgage while they sold their other house. Those companies move to places like Phoenix and New Mexico, and Vietnam because they can get away with paying less, not more. For every high salary at those companies, you got quite a few subcontractors being paid less than US minimum wage, and then there are the suicide nets at, at least, one of the AAPL factories. But, it's the greatest company ever, and the CEO is out of the closet, so let's celebrate "perversity" and forget about the slave labor.

i think what he is getting at is that you are still stuck in a time warp of assuming everybody needs a job and has to work for a company. young bucks these days don't have jobs they build companies and assets and sell/rent them to the companies you are describing. true freedom, earn what you want, when you want at what ever level you set your goals at. just pick a skill, create value and choose how to monetize, all else, salary, location is irrelevant. that old system you describe, thats the past

[bangmai]

A Digital Nomad is a trashpacker with a smartphone. If they really had the credentials, they would be making 120K USD per year+, and not on here complaining about the wi-fi in their 4000 THB per month apartment. My brother-in-law just got a new job in computers with a DOW component. He has the credentials and experience, but he would be the first to say he was very lucky, at his mid-50s age....they like them younger. But he has a BSEE and an MBA....the Nomads couldn't pass freshmen Physics.

Thanks for proving how completely clueless you are. Just an old guy shouting about the youth of today.

I've been around the computer business since the day I was born. My father worked for Univac. But, as someone else stated, these people ("Digital Nomads") are basically "bloggers" and not real computer professionals. Not disputing one's ability to work remotely, but I am doubting the large majority's ability to make "real" money engaging in what they promote; travel blogs, internet stores, website building (unless they are tops), multi-level marketing, video game testing......mostly a big pile of shiite, and out the other side of their mouth, they might mention that they are working for 25K THB per month as a teacher (without proper paperwork, of course). Three homes ago, I sold to an engineer from Jabil. Jabil is a large supplier to INTC and AAPL. I even carried the guy's mortgage while they sold their other house. Those companies move to places like Phoenix and New Mexico, and Vietnam because they can get away with paying less, not more. For every high salary at those companies, you got quite a few subcontractors being paid less than US minimum wage, and then there are the suicide nets at, at least, one of the AAPL factories. But, it's the greatest company ever, and the CEO is out of the closet, so let's celebrate "perversity" and forget about the slave labor.

i think what he is getting at is that you are still stuck in a time warp of assuming everybody needs a job and has to work for a company. young bucks these days don't have jobs they build companies and assets and sell/rent them to the companies you are describing. true freedom, earn what you want, when you want at what ever level you set your goals at. just pick a skill, create value and choose how to monetize, all else, salary, location is irrelevant. that old system you describe, thats the past

Perhaps you could explain the 1 trillion USD in student loan debt that may be the next "black swan" in the global economy. Perhaps you could explain the lack of new household formation (30 yo living in their parent's basement). Why is coming up with 10% down to buy a house such a tragedy, and 20% unthinkable? How can the US have the best University system in the world and half the graduates aren't finding a job in their field. There are lots of stats out their saying this Milineal generation is in very bad shape. For the first time ever, their life expectancy has decreased.

I am well aware of telecommuters...been going on for three decades +, before that people just worked at home, and before that home was the family farm. I've met people from India, Mexico, and Pakistan, who are highly educated and very well paid, but they are clearly exceptions, and in all three cases, for each one there are a million living on less than 2 USD per day, like half of the world's population.

I realize the days of working for a single company for one's career are long over, unless your an educrat or bureaucrat, but what that means is frequent job changes, self employment, and hustling your tail off.

There are more technology jobs in the county I grew up in, than there are in the Silicon Valley....median household income is about 110K, for a county of a million. It is about right where it was 10 years ago. Those people are paying the price, too, as traffic is horrible, and COL is high. 370K a year puts you in the top 1% (household), so it just isn't accurate to portray it as routine to make a million + per year. Might sound good for a MLM Webinar..but it just isn't true.

[ColdSingha]

A Digital Nomad is a trashpacker with a smartphone. If they really had the credentials, they would be making 120K USD per year+, and not on here complaining about the wi-fi in their 4000 THB per month apartment. My brother-in-law just got a new job in computers with a DOW component. He has the credentials and experience, but he would be the first to say he was very lucky, at his mid-50s age....they like them younger. But he has a BSEE and an MBA....the Nomads couldn't pass freshmen Physics.

Thanks for proving how completely clueless you are. Just an old guy shouting about the youth of today.

I've been around the computer business since the day I was born. My father worked for Univac. But, as someone else stated, these people ("Digital Nomads") are basically "bloggers" and not real computer professionals. Not disputing one's ability to work remotely, but I am doubting the large majority's ability to make "real" money engaging in what they promote; travel blogs, internet stores, website building (unless they are tops), multi-level marketing, video game testing......mostly a big pile of shiite, and out the other side of their mouth, they might mention that they are working for 25K THB per month as a teacher (without proper paperwork, of course). Three homes ago, I sold to an engineer from Jabil. Jabil is a large supplier to INTC and AAPL. I even carried the guy's mortgage while they sold their other house. Those companies move to places like Phoenix and New Mexico, and Vietnam because they can get away with paying less, not more. For every high salary at those companies, you got quite a few subcontractors being paid less than US minimum wage, and then there are the suicide nets at, at least, one of the AAPL factories. But, it's the greatest company ever, and the CEO is out of the closet, so let's celebrate "perversity" and forget about the slave labor.

i think what he is getting at is that you are still stuck in a time warp of assuming everybody needs a job and has to work for a company. young bucks these days don't have jobs they build companies and assets and sell/rent them to the companies you are describing. true freedom, earn what you want, when you want at what ever level you set your goals at. just pick a skill, create value and choose how to monetize, all else, salary, location is irrelevant. that old system you describe, thats the past

Perhaps you could explain the 1 trillion USD in student loan debt that may be the next "black swan" in the global economy. Perhaps you could explain the lack of new household formation (30 yo living in their parent's basement). Why is coming up with 10% down to buy a house such a tragedy, and 20% unthinkable? How can the US have the best University system in the world and half the graduates aren't finding a job in their field. There are lots of stats out their saying this Milineal generation is in very bad shape. For the first time ever, their life expectancy has decreased.

I am well aware of telecommuters...been going on for three decades +, before that people just worked at home, and before that home was the family farm. I've met people from India, Mexico, and Pakistan, who are highly educated and very well paid, but they are clearly exceptions, and in all three cases, for each one there are a million living on less than 2 USD per day, like half of the world's population.

I realize the days of working for a single company for one's career are long over, unless your an educrat or bureaucrat, but what that means is frequent job changes, self employment, and hustling your tail off.

There are more technology jobs in the county I grew up in, than there are in the Silicon Valley....median household income is about 110K, for a county of a million. It is about right where it was 10 years ago. Those people are paying the price, too, as traffic is horrible, and COL is high. 370K a year puts you in the top 1% (household), so it just isn't accurate to portray it as routine to make a million + per year. Might sound good for a MLM Webinar..but it just isn't true.

and your point is?

[bangmai]

My point is that you say 120K USD per year s peanuts...I say you're full of shiite, and couldn't show a bank statement with 20K in it, if your life depended on it, and you have a 640 credit score to match your low to negative networth, just like most of the Milineals/smart phone users. But, you certainly don't need my stamp of approval...can't say the same for Immigration. Carry on, or better yet go down to ICON and tell the 500 employees down there making 2 USD per hour, how easy it is, or be a guest speaker at Rajaphat and tell all the IT people how wealthy they will be in the near future, thanks to Bill Gates, now even people with a double digit IQ can be IT Guys.

[SoiBiker]

Odd how the idea of making a living online makes some people so angry.

[Puwa]

Why be so concerned with what someone else does for a living and what he keeps in the bank? If he's not hurting anyone and doesn't bother you, just live your own life.

[TheRascal]

There is the collateral damage legit expats might get hit with when the digi-workers finally do get cracked down on. Mostly in the form of new restrictions to visas/extensions of stay. Already happened with the ED's.

Is it really online workers that caused this though? Do you think they are a big part of the illegal work problem in comparison to illegal tour companies, teachers without the correct visas, people working illegally in restaurants etc etc.

Not once have online workers been mentioned in reasons for cracking down on visas - if I'm wrong please share a link to show me. Teachers have, Koreans working illegally in restaurants have, Russians and Chinese running illegal tours have.

Most online workers I would guess are from Western Europe, Aus or America. Every friend I've known on an ED visa from one of those countries hasn't had an issue getting the 90 day extensions. I was on an ED visa (although not an online worker or a worker of any sort) and I got 90 day extensions no problem for the full year. Every time I was there I saw Koreans and Russians getting the 7 days (effectively - it's time to leave) stamp. I got chatting to a Filipino girl last time I was there, she told me Filipinos never ever get more than 60 days and sometimes only get 30.

I'm not saying online work is legal or not - it's at best a grey area with a few immigration officials saying it's no problem, however it's not the reason for visa crackdowns.

[CNXBKKMAN]

Surely if you have upto date stamps in your PP, tourist visa, education visa whatever you are a legit expat? How does working on an App idea, writing a book, making a youtube video turn you into a "pikey" ? Its up to each person to do what they want with their own time. I find it very odd that some people get very razzed up about what other people are doing on their laptops. Very odd indeed.

[elviajero]

Surely if you have upto date stamps in your PP, tourist visa, education visa whatever you are a legit expat? How does working on an App idea, writing a book, making a youtube video turn you into a "pikey" ? Its up to each person to do what they want with their own time. I find it very odd that some people get very razzed up about what other people are doing on their laptops. Very odd indeed.

Thats part of the problem. People working on computers in their own home seem to think that they are exempt.

Working is working. Thailand does not want any foreigners working in Thailand without a work permit. If they do they are breaking the law. It's that simple.

These workers are a tiny problem that Thailand appears for now to tolerate. I doubt they will ever cater specifically for "digital nomads" or other online workers because they are a minority and it would open up others wanting equal treatment.

Hopefully one day Thailand will amend it's laws to make it possible for self employed, small business to be set up by foreigners but I'm not holing my breath.

Anyone with the skill to work online/remotely can do so already if they get a work permit. The fact that getting a work permit is difficult and prohibitive tells you everything about Thailand's interest in allowing foreign workers.

The fact that these people can work anywhere doesn't mean the can!

[bangmai]

Give people an inch; they take a mile. That's why the basic visa run system was ruined almost 10 years ago. Not only were people doing if for years, they were holding teaching jobs while doing it. Then the "sainted" volunteers.....took a lot less time for the Thai Government to figure out most of them were just playing the Immigration system. Lately, it's been the crackdown on ED visas....people showing up at Immigration and not being able to speak a word of Thai after a year of "classes"? Calling them stupid is one thing; but don't do it to their faces.

So why do I care about what people are doing on their laptops...well nothing, it's more about what they are doing on the Internet, and that is misrepresenting the truth about the profitability and sustainability of their endeavors. I'll mention again, the trillion USD in student loans owed mostly by the Millennials.....you can bet your beer money, that many of them were lied to by recruiters about their earnings after they paid 30-50K USD to attend their tech schools. I don't care if you agree with most of my statements, but you really should admit, that as a whole, this Millennial generation is not doing too well, a lot of it is things out of their control, a lot not so much....but I've just seen so many that have victimized by the overly optimistic statements about earnings. I graduated from a top notch business school (#31 on Bloomberg's rankings). However, I will give my school an "F," when it comes to accurately portraying the work environment that recent graduates will face. And that was in the economy of the mid 80s, which was much stronger than today. Three months after I got my degree, I was shoveling diapers and dirty syringes from my friends row-house rehab project located about 2 Km from the White House. He had dropped out of GWU, his first semester. A year later, I had my own office,with a river view, on Independence Ave., doing database programming. I would be better off today, if I had never got sidetracked from my needle shoveling job...there was a lot more room for advancement, and the hours were better. To this day, I have made most of my money by investing and repairing houses that appeared to have been in train-wrecks. Computers helped me the whole way, but they didn't deliver the big checks. To quote a budget airline flight magazine: "without hard work, a dream is simply that." My hats off to the people that make 50-100 per hour in computers...but it didn't just fall out of the sky. To the people I've had the misfortune of working with or sitting next to on a long flight that tried to get me into their Internet reseller business...I will say..no, you didn't, and no you won't, and no it doesn't, and maybe even a see, I told you so. But, then I said WTP would I pay 8 USD for a box of laundry detergent, when I can go to Walmart 24/7 and get one for 2.99? Now, I would say, WTP would I pay 8 USD for a box of laundry detergent, when I can go get a 32 load bottle at the 99 Cents Only store for 99.99 cents?

So what does tha have to do with the status of Digital Nomads in CNX...well they seem to be big at misrepresenting....misrepresented to get their visa, misrepresent to keep it, misrepresent to others about their incomes and lifestyle (we left all the stress behind in the US, and now teach 50 kids at a time for 3 USD per hour....), misrepresent to their landlords (notice all the ads on FB: "My partner and I are leaving CM and are looking to take over the last 10 months of our 12 month lease", and they're doing it all to some very large audiences, while being in a grey area, at best.

Edited August 12, 2015 by bangmai

[SoiBiker]

Sorry, but this just sounds like you don't like young people.

[MrBrilliant]

What has this to do with 'disliking young people'? Is digital pikery/nomadery the sole preserve of the young?

I sense that this is the default angry response to the gainfully employed/financially secure/legal immigration status assured older folks here.

[rwdrwdrwd]

Surely if you have upto date stamps in your PP, tourist visa, education visa whatever you are a legit expat? How does working on an App idea, writing a book, making a youtube video turn you into a "pikey" ? Its up to each person to do what they want with their own time. I find it very odd that some people get very razzed up about what other people are doing on their laptops. Very odd indeed.

Thats part of the problem. People working on computers in their own home seem to think that they are exempt.

Working is working. Thailand does not want any foreigners working in Thailand without a work permit. If they do they are breaking the law. It's that simple.

These workers are a tiny problem that Thailand appears for now to tolerate. I doubt they will ever cater specifically for "digital nomads" or other online workers because they are a minority and it would open up others wanting equal treatment. It can literally be interpreted to include breathing.

Hopefully one day Thailand will amend it's laws to make it possible for self employed, small business to be set up by foreigners but I'm not holing my breath.

Anyone with the skill to work online/remotely can do so already if they get a work permit. The fact that getting a work permit is difficult and prohibitive tells you everything about Thailand's interest in allowing foreign workers.

The fact that these people can work anywhere doesn't mean the can!

It is not clear from legislation that income earned online contravenes work legislation, for the simple fact that the definition of 'work' in Thai law is self referential. It literally says 'working is working', in the definition. And that it can include exerting effort or using knowledge, and that whether money is earned might not be relevant. It can be literally interpreted to include walking and breathing.

Given this, nobody except a judge can accurately determine what is work, and what is not work, for the purpose of complying with the legislation. It is entirely open to interpretation, and only by a judge.

There are no prior examples of anybody being prosecuted for acting in the manner of a digital nomad in Thailand.

I'm not saying they can or can't do it (and I personally think they should keep a low profile), I am saying there is no evidence to support the claim you appear to be making that they 'definitely need a WP'.

Edited August 12, 2015 by rwdrwdrwd

[SoiBiker]

What has this to do with 'disliking young people'? Is digital pikery/nomadery the sole preserve of the young?

I sense that this is the default angry response to the gainfully employed/financially secure/legal immigration status assured older folks here.

The repeated references to 'millennials' were what gave me that impression.

I myself am financially secure and fully legal in Thailand, so I harbour no resentments on that front.