Confederate flags left near Rev. Martin Luther King's church

[sgtsabai]

Rancid, go back to school. All the bull about "it wasn't about slavery" is a lie. It was all about slavery. This was an act of terror, the same as the burning of the cross was. It was a threat, however thinly veiled. I grew up playing cowboys and Indians and south vs the despicable north. I always took the side of Indians and the Confederacy. While I am proud of what little Indian heritage I have, I am ashamed of my Confederate "heritage" and nobody in my family ever owned or would own a slave. Whether the State or the Feds investigate this intimidation by southern rednecks or not, anybody with more than one working brain cell knows exactly what was meant. It was a warning. Anybody defending it is a racist.

[Publicus]

I agree with all efforts to remove the confederate flag from any government property.

However, I don't get where the police would be involved in this incident. There's no crime on the state or federal level. That is evident from this statement: "Atlanta police Chief George Turner said his agency was working with federal authorities and they have not determined what charges might be levied. Turner said they have not ruled out a hate crime, though Georgia has no state hate crimes law." So, Georgia doesn't have a hate crime law. The placing of the flag does not rise to the level of any state crime, apparently not even a trespass.

As for the federal hate crime law, 18 USC Sec. 249 is only met if there is bodily injury through the use of a weapon or fire. There is no bodily injury from placing the flag, so the feds have nothing to investigate.

Moreover, I am deeply concerned about the free speech infringement that results from any attempt to investigate this incident as a crime. Essentially, a criminal investigation acts as a dampening of the right to use the flag either as a symbol of political expression or respect for a historical event. The US Supreme Court has upheld the right to burn the US flag as expression of political free speech. As long as the flag is not being used in combination with a threat to cause bodily harm, its placement (other than on government lands) is protected by the First Amendment of the US Constitution. Shame on the police, both federal and state.

Any of the flags of the Confederacy have no legal standing in the United States and they haven't ever had any legal or Constitutional standing in the United States.

Their status is similar to that of the swastika flag, i.e., encompassed under the free speech provisions of the First Amendment and subsequent laws; SCOTUS rulings.

So if I torched a Confederate flag the only thing sacred in the Constitutional sense that I could cite is the First Amendment.

If I torched a Confederate flag, I'd have a sign saying 'Black Lives Matter.' I might have to be concerned about some white Republican right wing beserker racial cops, but the bottom line is that there would be no irreversible jail time and my white life would never actually be in the same danger as that of any black American who might be doing the same thing. That is if black Americans ever did the same sort of thing.

Photos from the flags at the church:

The security videotape showing the two perps on the scene placing the rags....

And....

An Atlanta tv news report that shows the scene and the specific placing of the four right wing flags around the church grounds, and the four rags being collected.

http://www.wsbtv.com/news/news/local/confederate-flags-found-around-king-center-ebeneze/nm89D/

Edited August 2, 2015 by Publicus

[sdanielmcev]

Terrorist threat?

Maybe a citation for littering.

The state of Georgia is holding its hands in the air saying it has no laws in this beyond perhaps trespass.

That the state of Georgia fails to provide minimal adequate security for this national site guided by the US Park Service is the sole and serious crime that has been identified at this point.

Putting the Confederate flag anywhere is indeed littering. But in this instance there is much more to it the state of Georgia chooses to ignore.

National parks are guarded by the National Park service. And it is just stupid beyond comprehension to say Georgia, or anywhere else could have this or any other of the millions of crimes committed each day. If this site, or any other is so important to you, get off your butt and go guard it.

And to show more of your hypocrisy, those that you seem to think Georgia put there to guard it? Those same cops you berate.

[Publicus]

Terrorist threat?

Maybe a citation for littering.

The state of Georgia is holding its hands in the air saying it has no laws in this beyond perhaps trespass.

That the state of Georgia fails to provide minimal adequate security for this national site guided by the US Park Service is the sole and serious crime that has been identified at this point.

Putting the Confederate flag anywhere is indeed littering. But in this instance there is much more to it the state of Georgia chooses to ignore.

National parks are guarded by the National Park service. And it is just stupid beyond comprehension to say Georgia, or anywhere else could have this or any other of the millions of crimes committed each day. If this site, or any other is so important to you, get off your butt and go guard it.

And to show more of your hypocrisy, those that you seem to think Georgia put there to guard it? Those same cops you berate.

Chief Richard Beary, president of the International Association of Chiefs of Police, has said throughout this nationwide series of police homicides of black Americans that, "ninety-eight percent of the time, the police to the right thing."

That is obviously correct because the are something like 500,000 community police in the US. Yet the right wing cops who soil police work and police professionals cause the social disorder, disruption, death and chaos.

I reiterate the crime in this instance is that the state of Georgia fails to enact laws that protect a site of this nature from the obvious deviants in society who obviously and predictably focus their attention on race, racial divides, racial hostility. The perps in this instance are the people who either create racial divisions or who are actively trying to exploit the racial divisions created by others.

One of these two redneck perps might be a Dylann Roof in the making...or both of 'em. The racial right seems not to express any concerns or even a thought about this. So I draw my own conclusions from their loud silence and their default position, which is to never criticise the redneck racists.

Some on the right even want to put the rednecks in a car with Daisy Duke instead of David Duke, which is an ultimate sop to try to downplay the racism inherent in this vulgar violation.

Edited August 3, 2015 by Publicus

[beechguy]

Terrorist threat?

Maybe a citation for littering.

The state of Georgia is holding its hands in the air saying it has no laws in this beyond perhaps trespass.

That the state of Georgia fails to provide minimal adequate security for this national site guided by the US Park Service is the sole and serious crime that has been identified at this point.

Putting the Confederate flag anywhere is indeed littering. But in this instance there is much more to it the state of Georgia chooses to ignore.

National parks are guarded by the National Park service. And it is just stupid beyond comprehension to say Georgia, or anywhere else could have this or any other of the millions of crimes committed each day. If this site, or any other is so important to you, get off your butt and go guard it.

And to show more of your hypocrisy, those that you seem to think Georgia put there to guard it? Those same cops you berate.

Chief Richard Beary, president of the International Association of Chiefs of Police, has said throughout this nationwide series of police homicides of black Americans that, "ninety-eight percent of the time, the police to the right thing."

That is obviously correct because the are something like 500,000 community police in the US. Yet the right wing cops who soil police work and police professionals cause the social disorder, disruption, death and chaos.

I reiterate the crime in this instance is that the state of Georgia fails to enact laws that protect a site of this nature from the obvious deviants in society who obviously and predictably focus their attention on race, racial divides, racial hostility. The perps in this instance are the people who either create racial divisions or who are actively trying to exploit the racial divisions created by others.

One of these two redneck perps might be a Dylann Roof in the making...or both of 'em. The racial right seems not to express any concerns or even a thought about this. So I draw my own conclusions from their loud silence and their default position, which is to never criticise the redneck racists.

Some on the right even want to put the rednecks in a car with Daisy Duke instead of David Duke, which is an ultimate sop to try to downplay the racism inherent in this vulgar violation.

No surprise that you barking up the wrong tree. I doubt anyone was running around waving Confederate Flags when these folks got shot. No need for a Dylan Roof to show up.

ttp://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/federal-agents-to-embed-with-baltimore-homicide-cops/ar-BBlkReZ

As to Confederate Flags on church yards, no, I don't approve. But it could be worse. Where I grew up, the church I belonged to, bought an adjacent property with a couple of buildings that had been used as school buildings for black people when there was segregation. Somebody in the community couldn't stand for white folks to own them, so they burned them to the ground. They were no great loss, but our church was severely damaged, racism and stupidity works both ways.

Edited August 3, 2015 by beechguy

[Publicus]

The state of Georgia is holding its hands in the air saying it has no laws in this beyond perhaps trespass.

That the state of Georgia fails to provide minimal adequate security for this national site guided by the US Park Service is the sole and serious crime that has been identified at this point.

Putting the Confederate flag anywhere is indeed littering. But in this instance there is much more to it the state of Georgia chooses to ignore.

National parks are guarded by the National Park service. And it is just stupid beyond comprehension to say Georgia, or anywhere else could have this or any other of the millions of crimes committed each day. If this site, or any other is so important to you, get off your butt and go guard it.

And to show more of your hypocrisy, those that you seem to think Georgia put there to guard it? Those same cops you berate.

Chief Richard Beary, president of the International Association of Chiefs of Police, has said throughout this nationwide series of police homicides of black Americans that, "ninety-eight percent of the time, the police to the right thing."

That is obviously correct because the are something like 500,000 community police in the US. Yet the right wing cops who soil police work and police professionals cause the social disorder, disruption, death and chaos.

I reiterate the crime in this instance is that the state of Georgia fails to enact laws that protect a site of this nature from the obvious deviants in society who obviously and predictably focus their attention on race, racial divides, racial hostility. The perps in this instance are the people who either create racial divisions or who are actively trying to exploit the racial divisions created by others.

One of these two redneck perps might be a Dylann Roof in the making...or both of 'em. The racial right seems not to express any concerns or even a thought about this. So I draw my own conclusions from their loud silence and their default position, which is to never criticise the redneck racists.

Some on the right even want to put the rednecks in a car with Daisy Duke instead of David Duke, which is an ultimate sop to try to downplay the racism inherent in this vulgar violation.

No surprise that you barking up the wrong tree. I doubt anyone was running around waving Confederate Flags when these folks got shot. No need for a Dylan Roof to show up.

ttp://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/federal-agents-to-embed-with-baltimore-homicide-cops/ar-BBlkReZ

As to Confederate Flags on church yards, no, I don't approve. But it could be worse. Where I grew up, the church I belonged to, bought an adjacent property with a couple of buildings that had been used as school buildings for black people when there was segregation. Somebody in the community couldn't stand for white folks to own them, so they burned them to the ground. They were no great loss, but our church was severely damaged, racism and stupidity works both ways.

Ignoring or denying the problem makes just about everything much more complicated and worse. Trying to deflect the problem only aggravates it.

One could easily get the impression the default position of the right is to always avoid recognizing or dealing with the problem of the Dylann Roofs at any level of potentiality or reality.

The Confederate battle flag used in this instance and at a church is a widely recognized symbol and anyone can say what it means to them, or one can remain silent about the flag's symbolism and about its use in this instance.

[sdanielmcev]

Terrorist threat?

Maybe a citation for littering.

The state of Georgia is holding its hands in the air saying it has no laws in this beyond perhaps trespass.

That the state of Georgia fails to provide minimal adequate security for this national site guided by the US Park Service is the sole and serious crime that has been identified at this point.

Putting the Confederate flag anywhere is indeed littering. But in this instance there is much more to it the state of Georgia chooses to ignore.

National parks are guarded by the National Park service. And it is just stupid beyond comprehension to say Georgia, or anywhere else could have this or any other of the millions of crimes committed each day. If this site, or any other is so important to you, get off your butt and go guard it.

And to show more of your hypocrisy, those that you seem to think Georgia put there to guard it? Those same cops you berate.

Chief Richard Beary, president of the International Association of Chiefs of Police, has said throughout this nationwide series of police homicides of black Americans that, "ninety-eight percent of the time, the police to the right thing."

That is obviously correct because the are something like 500,000 community police in the US. Yet the right wing cops who soil police work and police professionals cause the social disorder, disruption, death and chaos.

I reiterate the crime in this instance is that the state of Georgia fails to enact laws that protect a site of this nature from the obvious deviants in society who obviously and predictably focus their attention on race, racial divides, racial hostility. The perps in this instance are the people who either create racial divisions or who are actively trying to exploit the racial divisions created by others.

One of these two redneck perps might be a Dylann Roof in the making...or both of 'em. The racial right seems not to express any concerns or even a thought about this. So I draw my own conclusions from their loud silence and their default position, which is to never criticise the redneck racists.

Some on the right even want to put the rednecks in a car with Daisy Duke instead of David Duke, which is an ultimate sop to try to downplay the racism inherent in this vulgar violation.

What law would do that, that isn't already on the books? And, except for littering what 'crime' was committed? Why do you call them rednecks? Do you know them? They may be as whacked out liberal as you for all you know.

I won't wait for this phantom law you purport to know, because it doesn't exist.

And your and others incomprehensible idea to use every instance such as this to foment your own racist propaganda is the real crime here.

You blame others for things like this, but what are you doing if this is so important to you? Writing about it on a forum ?

[Neurath]

Don't see why it's so difficult to understand - the flag placed where it was in the context of the recent church shooting clearly has a significance very much like leaving a swastika at a synagogue.

[Publicus]

The state of Georgia is holding its hands in the air saying it has no laws in this beyond perhaps trespass.

That the state of Georgia fails to provide minimal adequate security for this national site guided by the US Park Service is the sole and serious crime that has been identified at this point.

Putting the Confederate flag anywhere is indeed littering. But in this instance there is much more to it the state of Georgia chooses to ignore.

National parks are guarded by the National Park service. And it is just stupid beyond comprehension to say Georgia, or anywhere else could have this or any other of the millions of crimes committed each day. If this site, or any other is so important to you, get off your butt and go guard it.

And to show more of your hypocrisy, those that you seem to think Georgia put there to guard it? Those same cops you berate.

Chief Richard Beary, president of the International Association of Chiefs of Police, has said throughout this nationwide series of police homicides of black Americans that, "ninety-eight percent of the time, the police to the right thing."

That is obviously correct because the are something like 500,000 community police in the US. Yet the right wing cops who soil police work and police professionals cause the social disorder, disruption, death and chaos.

I reiterate the crime in this instance is that the state of Georgia fails to enact laws that protect a site of this nature from the obvious deviants in society who obviously and predictably focus their attention on race, racial divides, racial hostility. The perps in this instance are the people who either create racial divisions or who are actively trying to exploit the racial divisions created by others.

One of these two redneck perps might be a Dylann Roof in the making...or both of 'em. The racial right seems not to express any concerns or even a thought about this. So I draw my own conclusions from their loud silence and their default position, which is to never criticise the redneck racists.

Some on the right even want to put the rednecks in a car with Daisy Duke instead of David Duke, which is an ultimate sop to try to downplay the racism inherent in this vulgar violation.

What law would do that, that isn't already on the books? And, except for littering what 'crime' was committed? Why do you call them rednecks? Do you know them? They may be as whacked out liberal as you for all you know.

I won't wait for this phantom law you purport to know, because it doesn't exist.

And your and others incomprehensible idea to use every instance such as this to foment your own racist propaganda is the real crime here.

You blame others for things like this, but what are you doing if this is so important to you? Writing about it on a forum ?

what are you doing if this is so important to you? Writing about it on a forum ?

.......you.......you.......you.......you.......your.......your.......you.......you.......you

Get a grip man.

[Boon Mee]

Some on the right even want to put the rednecks in a car with Daisy Duke instead of David Duke, which is an ultimate sop to try to downplay the racism inherent in this vulgar violation.

You need a reality check, dude.

The Rebel Flag symbolizes Heritage, not hate.

You wanna ban some flags do ya?

Start with the Gay flag...

[Publicus]

Some on the right even want to put the rednecks in a car with Daisy Duke instead of David Duke, which is an ultimate sop to try to downplay the racism inherent in this vulgar violation.

You need a reality check, dude.

The Rebel Flag symbolizes Heritage, not hate.

You wanna ban some flags do ya?

Start with the Gay flag...

Show me where I said to ban flags because I never said to ban the private use of any flag anywhere at any time under any circumstance.

The right jumps the gun on this one all the time. Some on the right need to learn that not liking a flag does not necessarily equal wanting to ban it.

Confederate flags are offensive to very many Americans but they are not illegal. No one I know is advocating making Confederate flags illegal.

People waving Confederate flags do have a gay time of their own in doing it.

[Steely Dan]

In the grand scheme of things this incident though regrettable is on a similar scale to placing a rasher of bacon on the gate of a Mosque or Synagogue, probably less so the way laws stand at present.

We do seem to have the usual progressive inquisition to accompany one of their talking points though, much as we did over a silly Mohammad film used to divert attention from the death of a U.S ambassador.

Edited August 3, 2015 by Steely Dan

[Publicus]

The Confederate flag and the deaths of black Americans in their churches have a long history of association, connection.

The MLK Center with its church where Dr. King preached is a very high visibility target in need of special precautions or protections the state of George fails to provide.

The right also ignores, or downplays or dismisses these Dylann Roof kind of behaviors. Failure to denounce this vulgar act is a failure of society and its norms.

[sdanielmcev]

The Confederate flag and the deaths of black Americans in their churches have a long history of association, connection.

The MLK Center with its church where Dr. King preached is a very high visibility target in need of special precautions or protections the state of George fails to provide.

The right also ignores, or downplays or dismisses these Dylann Roof kind of behaviors. Failure to denounce this vulgar act is a failure of society and its norms.

The'right' does denounce these acts.