A Personal Reflection on the State of Restaurant Service in CM

[theDukes]

She was probably just checking with your wife to make sure she had the order correct. Thai language speaker to Thai language speaker.

This happened to my wife at the River Market. She was with my mother who ordered something, the waitress wasn't sure of the order, checked with my wife in Thai, my wife wasn't sure and went with the waitresses understanding, the order arrived and my mother sent it back as it was not what she ordered. My wife now won't go back as she lost face, when she was trying to save face - her English is far from perfect, our language at home is Thai, but she felt the need to hide this and told me when she got home that she did not know what to do. Ridiculous, I know, but I'm not sure that checking the order with someone who did not make the order is such a great idea.

I was only speculating on what transpired. The fact is I don't know as I don't know what happened in your case. Servers make mistakes, cooks make mistakes. I apologise. It happens and while it is not a policy of the restaurants to double check an order with a Thai speaking customer it might be something the server without great English skills felt comfortable with. One thing that is a policy at the restaurants is that we will fix something, take it off the bill and do everything to make it right. Replacing something, sometimes buying the product in question and sometimes buying drinks and/or desserts. Does this happen all the time and do we get it right all the time? Probably not but we do have a general policy of no questions asked when it comes to something a customer complains about. We don't care who made the mistake. Most servers if not all servers (we have a lot of servers) know this and all managers fully understand this and actually like the policy because it makes it easy on them. Some handle the policy better than others. From time to time I have go over this policy with management and they understand how important it is to us that as much as possible every customer goes home satisfied.

While doing business in Thailand and the state of restaurant service is unique I actually find that it is better to deal with the idiosyncrasies here than to have to deal with doing business in the US.

[daoyai]

I bet nobody moans, when they undercharge you, as I found they do quiet regularly here, in numerous eating places,

If I am undercharged I always notify the server and pay the correct cost, the owners usually add up the bills and compare to the till, charging the wait staff any shortages...

[chiang mai]

I've been amazed at how difficult some of the Thais can make placing their orders at Thai places. My order takes about 5 seconds, and they will go on and on for five minutes...and this can be at a noodle shop. Then they get their food and there is a problem. maybe it is a form of class warfare. but I'm thinking, gee, I barely speak any Thai, been to the place 200 times, never had any problem, and this girl is acting like she is negotiating the sale of a house. Be very careful, who your bring to your favorite places....

I agree and I confess I've never understood why that is.

[chiang mai]

Actually, in most restaurants in Thailand they do the same thing to Hubby and me, too, and I'm not Thai. I do speak somewhat better Thai than Hubby, but not much better. I think maybe it's just a culture that the wife is going to take care of her husband. They also bring me the change, even when Hubby pays the bill. Maybe they think I'm more likely to leave a tip.

That's interesting because female wait staff nearly always try to give the (my) change to my (Thai) wife, even though I paid the bill, I think therefore it's a female thing and not a farang thing..

Edited August 5, 2015 by metisdead
16) You will not make changes to quoted material from other members posts, except for purposes of shortening the quoted post. This cannot be done in such a manner that it alters the context of the original post.

[Konini]

I would NEVER make any sort of a scene in a restaurant. Mom raised me better than that. If I don't like a place, I just don't go back. No bad mouthing around town, no crappy reports in Trip Advisor. Never.

Never, except Thaivisa I guess.

Anyway, I never had any major issue with the service at BiB. My main gripe is the terrible drinking water, which tastes like filtered tap water with a filter that hasn't been replaced in a long while. (maybe it has, it's just what it tastes like; anyway how much could some big Dew Drop water bottles cost anyway..)

How much is a bottle of water?

Don't know.. point is why a place would even offer their customers something that's so clearly off, and well below even any 30 Baht noodle shop..?

That's the point really, isn't it? If you're paying over 200 baht for breakfast - which is a lot of money - bottled water isn't going to cut into profit margins that much. Cost has to be balanced with customer satisfaction.

[Konini]

Not a big deal. Get up...walk inside..tell the first worker you see what you want...and roll back to your seat. Might as well refill your water while you are at it as its a refill it yourself joint. Having lived in Thailand 6 years i can't recall a single instance of a server coming to check on a table. Why the hell should they this isn't a tipping country.

Neither is UK, or Australia or New Zealand, but that doesn't stop wait staff checking that everything is alright or noticing that drinks need replenishing.

In my opinion, it comes down to staff training, and if you're going to charge pretty much 'back home' prices, you really ought to make sure your staff have 'back home' training. Of course this means nothing if the 'lady manager'/owner is the one who doesn't care for customer service.

[Konini]

I bet nobody moans, when they undercharge you, as I found they do quiet regularly here, in numerous eating places,

If I am undercharged I always notify the server and pay the correct cost, the owners usually add up the bills and compare to the till, charging the wait staff any shortages...

I always point it out and pay the correct amount because it's the right thing to do, whatever kind of business, whatever country. Too many people seem not to care about it, but it really is dishonest.

[Saan]

She was probably just checking with your wife to make sure she had the order correct. Thai language speaker to Thai language speaker.

This happened to my wife at the River Market. She was with my mother who ordered something, the waitress wasn't sure of the order, checked with my wife in Thai, my wife wasn't sure and went with the waitresses understanding, the order arrived and my mother sent it back as it was not what she ordered. My wife now won't go back as she lost face, when she was trying to save face - her English is far from perfect, our language at home is Thai, but she felt the need to hide this and told me when she got home that she did not know what to do. Ridiculous, I know, but I'm not sure that checking the order with someone who did not make the order is such a great idea.

I was only speculating on what transpired. The fact is I don't know as I don't know what happened in your case. Servers make mistakes, cooks make mistakes. I apologise. It happens and while it is not a policy of the restaurants to double check an order with a Thai speaking customer it might be something the server without great English skills felt comfortable with. One thing that is a policy at the restaurants is that we will fix something, take it off the bill and do everything to make it right. Replacing something, sometimes buying the product in question and sometimes buying drinks and/or desserts. Does this happen all the time and do we get it right all the time? Probably not but we do have a general policy of no questions asked when it comes to something a customer complains about. We don't care who made the mistake. Most servers if not all servers (we have a lot of servers) know this and all managers fully understand this and actually like the policy because it makes it easy on them. Some handle the policy better than others. From time to time I have go over this policy with management and they understand how important it is to us that as much as possible every customer goes home satisfied.

While doing business in Thailand and the state of restaurant service is unique I actually find that it is better to deal with the idiosyncrasies here than to have to deal with doing business in the US.

I was just trying to point out the curiosity of two Thai women discussing a farang's wine order. I was lucky I didn't end up with a bottle of vodka. As I said it used to peeve me but now I find it another bit of Thai quaintness. But I really do appreciate your explanation of Thai service. It is interesting and explains a lot. Understanding these sort things makes it easier to live in Thailand and I find it pretty easy to live here anyway.

[WinnieTheKhwai]

I bet nobody moans, when they undercharge you, as I found they do quiet regularly here, in numerous eating places,

For example, in detail?

For example when they miss a dish or a drink that you had. Then you have to help them a bit and indicate that you also had x/y/z.

[fireplay]

Not a big deal. Get up...walk inside..tell the first worker you see what you want...and roll back to your seat. Might as well refill your water while you are at it as its a refill it yourself joint. Having lived in Thailand 6 years i can't recall a single instance of a server coming to check on a table. Why the hell should they this isn't a tipping country.

Neither is UK, or Australia or New Zealand, but that doesn't stop wait staff checking that everything is alright or noticing that drinks need replenishing.

In my opinion, it comes down to staff training, and if you're going to charge pretty much 'back home' prices, you really ought to make sure your staff have 'back home' training. Of course this means nothing if the 'lady manager'/owner is the one who doesn't care for customer service.

Fair comment but i am curious what the salaries are for a server in those countries. I managed a Japanese restaurant...an expensive one in suk, owned by a Japanese guy. The servers and bussers were paid 9000 bht a month for 6 days a week 9 to 10 hours a day. They also split the service charge at the end of the month which came to about 2 or 3000 bht each. Furthermore, thais in their religion and culture accept their place in life...there is zero motivation to become better at what they do or climb up the ladder so to speak. As a japanese owner and american manager with strict expectations and training...it made 0% difference in their abilities to take care in their jobs. I wrote an employee handbook and their response was...we don't use those in Thailand.

[chingmai331]

Re: local wait staff wages. I notice a few 'Help Wanted-Waiter' signs in nearby western restaurants and one had '40 baht per hour'. Maybe plus meal (s). That ain't much.

I believe many, strictly local, places offer much less. Getting by, not going up, is primary for many, many folks.

[fireplay]

Another odd thing was the protocol for mistakes with orders. Someone had to pay. And i mean staff. If food was sent back or incorrect bottle of wine opened...the staff responsible for customer dissatisfaction had to pay. This created an environment of fear paranoia and back stabbing. I remember once that a bottle of wine was corked. The staff flipped out...it was a 4000 bht bottle..in thai...behind my back...they tried to blame me for opening it. They didn't understand the product was spoilt, and besides..i didnt even open it. This is the kind of shenanigans you deal with in the restaurant biz in Thailand.

[Konini]

Not a big deal. Get up...walk inside..tell the first worker you see what you want...and roll back to your seat. Might as well refill your water while you are at it as its a refill it yourself joint. Having lived in Thailand 6 years i can't recall a single instance of a server coming to check on a table. Why the hell should they this isn't a tipping country.

Neither is UK, or Australia or New Zealand, but that doesn't stop wait staff checking that everything is alright or noticing that drinks need replenishing.

In my opinion, it comes down to staff training, and if you're going to charge pretty much 'back home' prices, you really ought to make sure your staff have 'back home' training. Of course this means nothing if the 'lady manager'/owner is the one who doesn't care for customer service.

Fair comment but i am curious what the salaries are for a server in those countries. I managed a Japanese restaurant...an expensive one in suk, owned by a Japanese guy. The servers and bussers were paid 9000 bht a month for 6 days a week 9 to 10 hours a day. They also split the service charge at the end of the month which came to about 2 or 3000 bht each. Furthermore, thais in their religion and culture accept their place in life...there is zero motivation to become better at what they do or climb up the ladder so to speak. As a japanese owner and american manager with strict expectations and training...it made 0% difference in their abilities to take care in their jobs. I wrote an employee handbook and their response was...we don't use those in Thailand.

Wait staff in most countries are paid minimum or only a little above minimum wages and minimum conditions, partly because it's an unskilled job. In Aus now it's about $18/hour, but the amount doesn't matter as it's related to living costs. Minimum wages and conditions are minimum wages and conditions. Perhaps staff aren't quite as motivated as those in countries such as US where tipping is ubiquitous, but if they were lazy, rude, incompetent phone addicts or just plain old unhelpful, they would be sacked.

I think that's what so many of us, myself included, find so difficult here. As you pointed out, there is no motivation which sometimes makes me want to shake staff in shops, restaurants and even banks, but we have to accept that's the way it is here. I don't like it, but accept it when I eat out; I cook pretty much every day partly because I enjoy cooking, but partly because I don't really enjoy going out any more. I have noticed though that the uninterested, bad service isn't so much of a factor in cheap Thai places as it is in farang-orientated restaurants. Family sometimes make up the staff in the smaller places, but not always. Perhaps it's because the owner is operating on tight margins and keeping an eagle eye on the staff, but then if they can do it, why can't everybody else?

9,000 baht a month is about minimum now that the 300 baht a day is in place, but prior to that it would have been a little better than minimum and getting to keep the service charge is good - I don't know how usual that is here. Hours (conditions) are relative to the standards of the country in question - I wouldn't like to work under US conditions with no guaranteed annual leave in some states and no paid sick leave in most states and being able to be dismissed because - well just because. No reason necessary. But that's just what I'm used to, the minimum conditions of my home country are not negotiable. Working six days a week isn't minimum conditions here either, a lot of workers get one day a month off rather than one day a week, so I'd say your employees had good pay and conditions, perhaps better than most, but did it improve performance? As you said, they don't do training manuals here - I imagine that they don't think they need them.

When it's the manager or owner that is off-hand, unhelpful or rude though it's different. That, to me, is totally unacceptable. Everybody can have an off-day, but when you get so many anecdotal reports about one person, you know it wasn't just you and it wasn't just an off-day but seemingly standard operating practice, and I'll be buggered if I'll give my money to them.

It's a shame, but as I said you have to accept it as part of living here. We can't impose our standards and expectations on the populace of another country.

[nemrut]

You seem to have brought American expectations and cultural norms to Thailand which explains your disappointment in the service. What you describe is also very common in restaurants throughout western Europe where wait staff are highly trained and take pride in the fact that they are unobtrusive but available when called upon. This is also typical for many Thai restaurants outside of hotels. If you need service, it's up to you to make yourself noticed and request it, otherwise waitstaff will leave you alone. Hinting with American style gestures(eg, hands behind your head) and expecting Thais to understand them is simply going to add to your disappointment.

[chiang mai]

I bet nobody moans, when they undercharge you, as I found they do quiet regularly here, in numerous eating places,

For example, in detail?

For example when they miss a dish or a drink that you had. Then you have to help them a bit and indicate that you also had x/y/z.

Thanks, sorry, I misunderstood TB's post. And I agree, it's shameful not to help out under those circumstances because they have to pay.

[fireplay]

You seem to have brought American expectations and cultural norms to Thailand which explains your disappointment in the service. What you describe is also very common in restaurants throughout western Europe where wait staff are highly trained and take pride in the fact that they are unobtrusive but available when called upon. This is also typical for many Thai restaurants outside of hotels. If you need service, it's up to you to make yourself noticed and request it, otherwise waitstaff will leave you alone. Hinting with American style gestures(eg, hands behind your head) and expecting Thais to understand them is simply going to add to your disappointment.

Actually this is very similar to dining in los angeles...

[TheAppletons]

Actually this is very similar to dining in los angeles...

[junglechef]

Can someone explain to me why the staff often don't write down the order and in these cases usually what's served to you isn't right.

The restaurant can loose money either then or not getting repeat business and the customers usually isn't satisfied when this happens, if they say something or not.

There's a reason that this simple procedure is followed all over the world but I find here it just seems like just too much work for the staff to do an adequate job by making the small necessary effort to serve the customer what they order.

[Mapguy]

Such angst! Farangs abroad!

Cook at home. Invite friends!

[junglechef]

Interesting customs on tipping and other things

http://www.businessinsider.com/american-customs-that-are-offensive-abroad-2015-8?utm_content=bufferfd363&utm_medium=social&utm_source=facebook.com&utm_campaign=buffer

[arunsakda]

The best service I have ever experienced was in a Cafe in Laos, Luang Prabhang.

I walked in the middle of the day, no other customers. Speaking English I ordered an Iced Black Coffee, No Sugar, no Milk.

AT LEAST 25 MINUTES later the girl reappeared, beaming from ear to ear smiling, with my order.

Cold coffee flavored milk laced with an enourmous amount of sugar.

I realized there was nothing more I could do in that situation and hung my head down and drank it anyway.

Edited August 6, 2015 by arunsakda

[true blue]

Can someone explain to me why the staff often don't write down the order and in these cases usually what's served to you isn't right.

The restaurant can loose money either then or not getting repeat business and the customers usually isn't satisfied when this happens, if they say something or not.

There's a reason that this simple procedure is followed all over the world but I find here it just seems like just too much work for the staff to do an adequate job by making the small necessary effort to serve the customer what they order.

Don't know what restaurants you go to,every one i go to have order books,and always repeat the order back to us, then the bill you get shows what you ordered and itemized.

[Saan]

The best service I have ever experienced was in a Cafe in Laos, Luang Prabhang.

I walked in the middle of the day, no other customers. Speaking English I ordered an Iced Black Coffee, No Sugar, no Milk.

AT LEAST 25 MINUTES later the girl reappeared, beaming from ear to ear smiling, with my order.

Cold coffee flavored milk laced with an enourmous amount of sugar.

I realized there was nothing more I could do in that situation and hung my head down and drank it anyway.

I had a more bizarre experience in Noumea many years ago. I ordered a brandy, bitters and lime (as you did then). When it arrived I took one sip and sprayed some of the awful dink. I asked the waitress what it was. She replied: 'What you ordered monsieur, brandy, beer and lime'.

[chingmai331]

Arunsakda, there is always another option. Be happy to see her smiling face, to be served a cold drink, to be able to afford the treat. And importantly, express joy to the girl who wants to please you.

[junglechef]

Can someone explain to me why the staff often don't write down the order and in these cases usually what's served to you isn't right.

The restaurant can loose money either then or not getting repeat business and the customers usually isn't satisfied when this happens, if they say something or not.

There's a reason that this simple procedure is followed all over the world but I find here it just seems like just too much work for the staff to do an adequate job by making the small necessary effort to serve the customer what they order.

Don't know what restaurants you go to,every one i go to have order books,and always repeat the order back to us, then the bill you get shows what you ordered and itemized.

Not ones in nice hotels or McDonalds kind of places. Thai restaurants where often the bill is just a total.

Even last night I went to one of the Shabu Shabu places in Central Mall and was just told my total when I went to pay at the front desk so I asked for a bill and the manager wrote down 2345 (bht) on a piece of paper and this was a chain in a mall!

If you have your order ALWAYS repeated to you and get an itemized bill EVERY TIME you should really get out more or exaggerate less

[fireplay]

Can someone explain to me why the staff often don't write down the order and in these cases usually what's served to you isn't right.

The restaurant can loose money either then or not getting repeat business and the customers usually isn't satisfied when this happens, if they say something or not.

There's a reason that this simple procedure is followed all over the world but I find here it just seems like just too much work for the staff to do an adequate job by making the small necessary effort to serve the customer what they order.

Don't know what restaurants you go to,every one i go to have order books,and always repeat the order back to us, then the bill you get shows what you ordered and itemized.

Not ones in nice hotels or McDonalds kind of places. Thai restaurants where often the bill is just a total.

Even last night I went to one of the Shabu Shabu places in Central Mall and was just told my total when I went to pay at the front desk so I asked for a bill and the manager wrote down 2345 (bht) on a piece of paper and this was a chain in a mall!

If you have your order ALWAYS repeated to you and get an itemized bill EVERY TIME you should really get out more or exaggerate less

The thai write down orders...in some places. But it is totally TOTALLY standard to serve something, anything, whether it is correct or not. Thai always say yes to everything. You want chicken? Ok no problem! They put the order into the kitchen and...there's no chicken. Mai pen rai! Just serve pork and hopefully the customer doesn't notice. That's what it is man, if you point out that your dish clearly isn't chicken, well guess what, YOU lose face, not them.

[arunsakda]

Arunsakda, there is always another option. Be happy to see her smiling face, to be served a cold drink, to be able to afford the treat. And importantly, express joy to the girl who wants to please you.

That is how I felt. I'm not a diabetic, so it couldn't kill me to have a sweet glass of milk. The Lao girl was like a smiling angel. I could not complain. The Lao culture plus 40 years of doctrinaire communism (meaning poverty and thriving cynical elites) has left a country with a population unsuitable for service industry employment. Most hotel and restaurant management imported from the Phillipines. Edited August 6, 2015 by arunsakda

[junglechef]

Can someone explain to me why the staff often don't write down the order and in these cases usually what's served to you isn't right.

The restaurant can loose money either then or not getting repeat business and the customers usually isn't satisfied when this happens, if they say something or not.

There's a reason that this simple procedure is followed all over the world but I find here it just seems like just too much work for the staff to do an adequate job by making the small necessary effort to serve the customer what they order.

Don't know what restaurants you go to,every one i go to have order books,and always repeat the order back to us, then the bill you get shows what you ordered and itemized.

Not ones in nice hotels or McDonalds kind of places. Thai restaurants where often the bill is just a total.

Even last night I went to one of the Shabu Shabu places in Central Mall and was just told my total when I went to pay at the front desk so I asked for a bill and the manager wrote down 2345 (bht) on a piece of paper and this was a chain in a mall!

If you have your order ALWAYS repeated to you and get an itemized bill EVERY TIME you should really get out more or exaggerate less

The thai write down orders...in some places. But it is totally TOTALLY standard to serve something, anything, whether it is correct or not. Thai always say yes to everything. You want chicken? Ok no problem! They put the order into the kitchen and...there's no chicken. Mai pen rai! Just serve pork and hopefully the customer doesn't notice. That's what it is man, if you point out that your dish clearly isn't chicken, well guess what, YOU lose face, not them.

I disagree, maybe in their eyes I lose face by pointing out the wrong thing was served but if done politely really I only can see that they might be trying to pass the blame and not really think it.

So if your a Muslim you should just not eat and pay or worse eat the pork as to not lose face?

I do agree it is standard to serve the wrong thing for numerous reasons but most boiling down to mai pen rai.

Do I eat the pork when I ordered the chicken, sure as I don't care which is it but if my steamed fish comes out deep fried, which I do care about as I don't eat fried food for health reasons, I would send it back.

Am I embarrassed? Maybe for them that they aren't able to get an order right.

[fireplay]

Can someone explain to me why the staff often don't write down the order and in these cases usually what's served to you isn't right.

The restaurant can loose money either then or not getting repeat business and the customers usually isn't satisfied when this happens, if they say something or not.

There's a reason that this simple procedure is followed all over the world but I find here it just seems like just too much work for the staff to do an adequate job by making the small necessary effort to serve the customer what they order.

Don't know what restaurants you go to,every one i go to have order books,and always repeat the order back to us, then the bill you get shows what you ordered and itemized.

Not ones in nice hotels or McDonalds kind of places. Thai restaurants where often the bill is just a total.

Even last night I went to one of the Shabu Shabu places in Central Mall and was just told my total when I went to pay at the front desk so I asked for a bill and the manager wrote down 2345 (bht) on a piece of paper and this was a chain in a mall!

If you have your order ALWAYS repeated to you and get an itemized bill EVERY TIME you should really get out more or exaggerate less

The thai write down orders...in some places. But it is totally TOTALLY standard to serve something, anything, whether it is correct or not. Thai always say yes to everything. You want chicken? Ok no problem! They put the order into the kitchen and...there's no chicken. Mai pen rai! Just serve pork and hopefully the customer doesn't notice. That's what it is man, if you point out that your dish clearly isn't chicken, well guess what, YOU lose face, not them.

I disagree, maybe in their eyes I lose face by pointing out the wrong thing was served but if done politely really I only can see that they might be trying to pass the blame and not really think it.

So if your a Muslim you should just not eat and pay or worse eat the pork as to not lose face?

I do agree it is standard to serve the wrong thing for numerous reasons but most boiling down to mai pen rai.

Do I eat the pork when I ordered the chicken, sure as I don't care which is it but if my steamed fish comes out deep fried, which I do care about as I don't eat fried food for health reasons, I would send it back.

Am I embarrassed? Maybe for them that they aren't able to get an order right.

By you pointing out their mistake you have failed gren jai and therefore make them feel bad...thus you lose face.

[fireplay]

Can someone explain to me why the staff often don't write down the order and in these cases usually what's served to you isn't right.

The restaurant can loose money either then or not getting repeat business and the customers usually isn't satisfied when this happens, if they say something or not.

There's a reason that this simple procedure is followed all over the world but I find here it just seems like just too much work for the staff to do an adequate job by making the small necessary effort to serve the customer what they order.

Don't know what restaurants you go to,every one i go to have order books,and always repeat the order back to us, then the bill you get shows what you ordered and itemized.

Not ones in nice hotels or McDonalds kind of places. Thai restaurants where often the bill is just a total.

Even last night I went to one of the Shabu Shabu places in Central Mall and was just told my total when I went to pay at the front desk so I asked for a bill and the manager wrote down 2345 (bht) on a piece of paper and this was a chain in a mall!

If you have your order ALWAYS repeated to you and get an itemized bill EVERY TIME you should really get out more or exaggerate less

The thai write down orders...in some places. But it is totally TOTALLY standard to serve something, anything, whether it is correct or not. Thai always say yes to everything. You want chicken? Ok no problem! They put the order into the kitchen and...there's no chicken. Mai pen rai! Just serve pork and hopefully the customer doesn't notice. That's what it is man, if you point out that your dish clearly isn't chicken, well guess what, YOU lose face, not them.

I disagree, maybe in their eyes I lose face by pointing out the wrong thing was served but if done politely really I only can see that they might be trying to pass the blame and not really think it.

So if your a Muslim you should just not eat and pay or worse eat the pork as to not lose face?

I do agree it is standard to serve the wrong thing for numerous reasons but most boiling down to mai pen rai.

Do I eat the pork when I ordered the chicken, sure as I don't care which is it but if my steamed fish comes out deep fried, which I do care about as I don't eat fried food for health reasons, I would send it back.

Am I embarrassed? Maybe for them that they aren't able to get an order right.

By you pointing out their mistake you have failed gren jai and therefore make them feel bad...thus you lose face.

But between you me and the lamp post I could honestly give a damn about 'face' as you pointed out..health, religion and taste preferences...i want what I want. I guess i am not gren jai.