A Personal Reflection on the State of Restaurant Service in CM

[Jingthing]

Wow, some people (like the OP) sure have a lot of free time on their hands!

Unbelievable.

I've been putting in 16 hour days the last week. Thank god for work. Keeps the mind from being idle.

..... says someone with 8.000+ posts.....

Yeah.

Newbies!

[amexpat]

I wouldn't ever make a scene in a restaurant either. Who would?

You? OK, go home please.

But I think a quiet word with the owner or manager might be appreciated. Losing face is one thing, losing baht is quite another.

[elektrified]

Wow, some people (like the OP) sure have a lot of free time on their hands!

Unbelievable.

I've been putting in 16 hour days the last week. Thank god for work. Keeps the mind from being idle.

..... says someone with 8.000+ posts.....

Over about 8+ years...

[PlanetX]

A few years ago went with a friend for a few drinks. Ladyboy bar tender asked for a drink for herself before we even ordered. When I politely declined she grabbed one anyways and threw it at us. Now I figure if my breakfast waitress does not try to kill me it constituted good service.

[WinnieTheKhwai]

I would NEVER make any sort of a scene in a restaurant. Mom raised me better than that. If I don't like a place, I just don't go back. No bad mouthing around town, no crappy reports in Trip Advisor. Never.

Never, except Thaivisa I guess.

Anyway, I never had any major issue with the service at BiB. My main gripe is the terrible drinking water, which tastes like filtered tap water with a filter that hasn't been replaced in a long while. (maybe it has, it's just what it tastes like; anyway how much could some big Dew Drop water bottles cost anyway..)

How much is a bottle of water?

Don't know.. point is why a place would even offer their customers something that's so clearly off, and well below even any 30 Baht noodle shop..?

[Ozziepat]

Better restaurateurs know that customers rightly expect a positive dining experience, not just "a meal", and work hard to provide such an experience. World class restaurants carry this to extremes that would amaze anyone who has not been closely involved with one. Included in the overall dining experience are ambience, service and food quality (There's more.). The experience begins when you walk in the door and ends when you walk out. Everything in between is important, from cleanliness and noise levels to food presentation, and a fair degree of quality in every area is being paid for by perceptive customers whether or not it is received. Excusing Thai restaurateurs because they are Thai is yet another example of 'the soft bigotry of low expectations' that often appears here in various guises whenever legitimate criticism is expressed.

[LarryBird]

It seems a big problem around here, that once the staff are people other than family members there is basically no interest in doing a reasonable job..

The funny thing is about no one noticing you in their peripheral vision... They are absolute pros at not making eye contact.

[LarryBird]

One thing that can always be certain, no matter what OP's experience was, posters on here will find a way to blame him/her. If the the evidence is clearly pointing to the OP not being at fault, we must then assume that they are lying. Or, excuse the behavior as 'cultural' and the OP is therefore inferred to be a rudish bore.

[chingmai331]

The problem with Ozziepats notions are that only the mgnt decides what is 'quality', not the consumers. I avoid restaurants with GIANT TELLYS blasting away, even if they charge 400 baht for a burger and have red carpets underfoot.

Much of what is construed to be quality is only pandering to those with money who need to demonstrate to others. Gold plated pens and smartphones, lizard skin shoes, $2000 handbags...all catering only to those who must display. Restaurants too, less so.

[fireplay]

Not a big deal. Get up...walk inside..tell the first worker you see what you want...and roll back to your seat. Might as well refill your water while you are at it as its a refill it yourself joint. Having lived in Thailand 6 years i can't recall a single instance of a server coming to check on a table. Why the hell should they this isn't a tipping country.

[NancyL]

Not a big deal. Get up...walk inside..tell the first worker you see what you want...and roll back to your seat. Might as well refill your water while you are at it as its a refill it yourself joint. Having lived in Thailand 6 years i can't recall a single instance of a server coming to check on a table. Why the hell should they this isn't a tipping country.

Yup, see my post #16 on the previous page. This is basically our strategy when Hubby and I eat at this place with our cats and sit outside.

Same idea as the gai yang and somtam restaurant just off Loi Kroh that I like. You write your order on a slip of paper from a number board on the wall, give it to the cook and while she's getting it together, you go get your cutlery and water. Sometimes I have to explain the system to tourists who sit down and think they're going to have staff come to them. Nope, the staff is there to clear the tables when you're done and to bring the order to you when the cook has the meal prepared. At that place, you pay on your way out. If I give them 40 baht for a 35 baht meal, they'll always hand back the 5 baht and act very surprised when I tell them to keep the 5 baht coin.

[Saan]

It is not just in Thailand that waiters practice eye avoidance. This post reminded me of The Epitaph to a Waiter.

'Bye and bye

God caught his eye.'

[Frank James]

Afterword...

I received a very courteous and thoughtful PM this morning from the owner of BiB, explaining the staffing situation and even offering me a full refund. I really appreciated hearing from him, and declined the offer. The food was well worth the money. Perhaps overpaying could be seen as a grandiose gesture on my part. I just wanted to leave, because it was an uncomfortable situation for all concerned, at a crowded time in the restaurant. I didn't want to stand around waiting for change.

I want to emphasize again that I really like the food there, and recommend it highly to anyone who likes American style "comfort" food. Any place can have an off day. I'm sure most of the customers who dined there over the weekend had a great experience.

Some of the best, and also the very worst postings on TV seem to come when we talk about restaurants, service, and the dining out experience in general. The only area of topics that exceed this subject in bile, hatred, and vitriol, are on Thailand's political scene, and the related social upheavals of the recent past. I had to completely remove myself from those "wars."

I didn't mean to make any problems for the establishment, and there's no need for anyone to feel a "loss of face." Hereafter I will stay out of the restaurant review business, for which I am not qualified in any way. If I had waited a few hours, I probably wouldn't have commented at all, which might have been better for everyone.

Thanks to those who "invited" me to "go home", or think I have too much "time on my hands"; if you will contribute toward the fare I'll be glad to take a break. But I'll be back. This IS my home. I love Chiang Mai.

[JaseTheBass]

It seems to be an epidemic, especially in Chiang Mai. I feel sorry for anyone trying to hire waiting staff here as it's rare I go to a restaurant that has competent staff. And when the owner isn't in residence it gets even worse...

[chiang mai]

Afraid to say I stopped eating there for similar reasons, also, the quality seemed to be very hit and miss. The icing on the proverbial cake for me was going in there one morning for breakfast when around fifteen or so Americans in their late teens/early twenties arrived, pushed a few tables together and began singing, some kind of glee group on tour or similar.

The waitress tried to take my order several times but couldn't understand what I was saying because of the singing, the lady owner sat on her perch nearby watching it all, smiling. I rather abruptly muttered a profanity and left, it was clear that they still didn't get it!

[Cpkt8]

This kind of 'Can't be bothered' service is everywhere in Thailand. I kinda tuned myself to get used to it when I'm in Thailand.

Personally I think giving them a feedback is wasting time and breath.

No tips if bad service. Tip if service is ok. Bigger tip if service is good. Excellent service...have not encountered any yet.[emoji5]️

[bangmai]

It seems to be an epidemic, especially in Chiang Mai. I feel sorry for anyone trying to hire waiting staff here as it's rare I go to a restaurant that has competent staff. And when the owner isn't in residence it gets even worse...

I've been to a few places, and thought I would be a regular until I met the foreigner owner, who was usually not there, but when he was; it was 180 degree different environment, for the worse.

The slips of paper were mentioned a few times, and for some reason, they are often the best all around places. Might be because they tend to be family businesses. The three I know of, don't even deliver a bill,,,the slips are for ordering. They tell you how much, when you flag them down, or you walk up to the cook. As a family business, they can use this form of accounting. They will still wait on you and bring you water, but many just do it as they sit down. I always just place my order verbally, and I like the direct communication aspect with the cooks, who know me, and it also lessens the language barriers. These places also have more streamlined menus, which is also a good thing. Long menus are often more to do with failure, than success. Some of these places that just won't say no to any item imaginable...like they feel compelled to serve Mexican and Thai food with their American menus, are doomed for failure, when the number of menu items is a lot higher than daily customers.

[trainman34014]

Service and Thailand are two words that don't really fit together well !

[theDukes]

 

Better restaurateurs know that customers rightly expect a positive dining experience, not just "a meal", and work hard to provide such an experience. World class restaurants carry this to extremes that would amaze anyone who has not been closely involved with one. Included in the overall dining experience are ambience, service and food quality (There's more.). The experience begins when you walk in the door and ends when you walk out. Everything in between is important, from cleanliness and noise levels to food presentation, and a fair degree of quality in every area is being paid for by perceptive customers whether or not it is received. Excusing Thai restaurateurs because they are Thai is yet another example of 'the soft bigotry of low expectations' that often appears here in various guises whenever legitimate criticism is expressed.

 

I'm sorry but while I agree with you on a few of your arguments I have to disagree on the standards of service. While the dining experience starts and ends at the front door standards are different in Thailand and Thai style service is different than it would be in other parts of the globe. Staying away from a table but standing on point and letting the customer tell the service staff what to do, leaving all dishes until the customer leaves and even a server not speaking can be perceived by Thai customers as "good" service. In Thailand a good server doesn't work for tips and would never suggest what a customer should buy. In fact the only interaction between a server (laborer) and a customer would be a polite wai before and after the meal. Only an owner and/or manager would have a verbal interaction with the guest. Thai customers will know what they want and will grab what appears to be the nearest worker to get it. After the bill is presented and the change made the server would return to the table and hand over the check book and wait while the customer would review his/her change and then deposit a 20 Baht note in the book and hand it back to the server. This is good and maybe exceptional, Thai style service.

What people get confused is the difference in cultures and what they perceive is a level or higher standard of service that they receive elsewhere and compare it to what they want here. Not that this other standard doesn't happen here or happen sometimes. The "soft bigotry of low expectations" is a misguided attempt to impose artificial, perceived and/or western standards or a higher perceived standard on Thai culture and performance. So by implying that those who say that one should expect a lower standard is soft bigotry the actual opposite is true. One should expect Thai style standards. It doesn't equate as bigotry. While this does not excuse the lackadaisical or poor performance of the Thai standard in certain circumstances what might be perceived as poor service might not be poor but the "western desire for western expectations." For example, wanting servers to speak English in a western style restaurant or to be offered coffee and dessert or a refill of a beer or an explanation of the food or the modifying of the menu or the waitress to talk with the male customer or asking about food allergies. The list goes on with the basic differences.

I guess I'm getting old because I still remember carrying a phrase book and trying to ask in a native tongue if I could get a beer or where I could find the bathroom. I remember speaking in English and having servers look at me like (guess what?) they didn't have a clue about what I was talking. I remember getting food that we did not order and eating it because we were hungry. These were all part of the charms of being in a different culture and a different country.

Again, I'm not talking about poor and/or lackadaisical service that does happen in all countries and some of which is being brought up here and I'm not saying that the western standard or "higher" perceived or desired standard does not on occasionally happen here. TIT.

D

[true blue]

I bet nobody moans, when they undercharge you, as I found they do quiet regularly here, in numerous eating places,

[chiang mai]

I bet nobody moans, when they undercharge you, as I found they do quiet regularly here, in numerous eating places,

For example, in detail?

[bangmai]

 

Better restaurateurs know that customers rightly expect a positive dining experience, not just "a meal", and work hard to provide such an experience. World class restaurants carry this to extremes that would amaze anyone who has not been closely involved with one. Included in the overall dining experience are ambience, service and food quality (There's more.). The experience begins when you walk in the door and ends when you walk out. Everything in between is important, from cleanliness and noise levels to food presentation, and a fair degree of quality in every area is being paid for by perceptive customers whether or not it is received. Excusing Thai restaurateurs because they are Thai is yet another example of 'the soft bigotry of low expectations' that often appears here in various guises whenever legitimate criticism is expressed.

 

I'm sorry but while I agree with you on a few of your arguments I have to disagree on the standards of service. While the dining experience starts and ends at the front door standards are different in Thailand and Thai style service is different than it would be in other parts of the globe. Staying away from a table but standing on point and letting the customer tell the service staff what to do, leaving all dishes until the customer leaves and even a server not speaking can be perceived by Thai customers as "good" service. In Thailand a good server doesn't work for tips and would never suggest what a customer should buy. In fact the only interaction between a server (laborer) and a customer would be a polite wai before and after the meal. Only an owner and/or manager would have a verbal interaction with the guest. Thai customers will know what they want and will grab what appears to be the nearest worker to get it. After the bill is presented and the change made the server would return to the table and hand over the check book and wait while the customer would review his/her change and then deposit a 20 Baht note in the book and hand it back to the server. This is good and maybe exceptional, Thai style service.

What people get confused is the difference in cultures and what they perceive is a level or higher standard of service that they receive elsewhere and compare it to what they want here. Not that this other standard doesn't happen here or happen sometimes. The "soft bigotry of low expectations" is a misguided attempt to impose artificial, perceived and/or western standards or a higher perceived standard on Thai culture and performance. So by implying that those who say that one should expect a lower standard is soft bigotry the actual opposite is true. One should expect Thai style standards. It doesn't equate as bigotry. While this does not excuse the lackadaisical or poor performance of the Thai standard in certain circumstances what might be perceived as poor service might not be poor but the "western desire for western expectations." For example, wanting servers to speak English in a western style restaurant or to be offered coffee and dessert or a refill of a beer or an explanation of the food or the modifying of the menu or the waitress to talk with the male customer or asking about food allergies. The list goes on with the basic differences.

I guess I'm getting old because I still remember carrying a phrase book and trying to ask in a native tongue if I could get a beer or where I could find the bathroom. I remember speaking in English and having servers look at me like (guess what?) they didn't have a clue about what I was talking. I remember getting food that we did not order and eating it because we were hungry. These were all part of the charms of being in a different culture and a different country.

Again, I'm not talking about poor and/or lackadaisical service that does happen in all countries and some of which is being brought up here and I'm not saying that the western standard or "higher" perceived or desired standard does not on occasionally happen here. TIT.

D

but what do you call beer glasses that smell like beer, before you put beer in them? Or no soap in the restrooms? Some things really can't be attached to culture, and are just plain wrong, even if it is fairly standard procedure in some areas. Rats? mai pen rai?

[theDukes]

Sure, you'll note that I did not excuse poor and/or lackadaisical service that does happen a lot here and in any country.

Edited August 3, 2015 by theDukes

[Saan]

 

Better restaurateurs know that customers rightly expect a positive dining experience, not just "a meal", and work hard to provide such an experience. World class restaurants carry this to extremes that would amaze anyone who has not been closely involved with one. Included in the overall dining experience are ambience, service and food quality (There's more.). The experience begins when you walk in the door and ends when you walk out. Everything in between is important, from cleanliness and noise levels to food presentation, and a fair degree of quality in every area is being paid for by perceptive customers whether or not it is received. Excusing Thai restaurateurs because they are Thai is yet another example of 'the soft bigotry of low expectations' that often appears here in various guises whenever legitimate criticism is expressed.

 

I'm sorry but while I agree with you on a few of your arguments I have to disagree on the standards of service. While the dining experience starts and ends at the front door standards are different in Thailand and Thai style service is different than it would be in other parts of the globe. Staying away from a table but standing on point and letting the customer tell the service staff what to do, leaving all dishes until the customer leaves and even a server not speaking can be perceived by Thai customers as "good" service. In Thailand a good server doesn't work for tips and would never suggest what a customer should buy. In fact the only interaction between a server (laborer) and a customer would be a polite wai before and after the meal. Only an owner and/or manager would have a verbal interaction with the guest. Thai customers will know what they want and will grab what appears to be the nearest worker to get it. After the bill is presented and the change made the server would return to the table and hand over the check book and wait while the customer would review his/her change and then deposit a 20 Baht note in the book and hand it back to the server. This is good and maybe exceptional, Thai style service.

What people get confused is the difference in cultures and what they perceive is a level or higher standard of service that they receive elsewhere and compare it to what they want here. Not that this other standard doesn't happen here or happen sometimes. The "soft bigotry of low expectations" is a misguided attempt to impose artificial, perceived and/or western standards or a higher perceived standard on Thai culture and performance. So by implying that those who say that one should expect a lower standard is soft bigotry the actual opposite is true. One should expect Thai style standards. It doesn't equate as bigotry. While this does not excuse the lackadaisical or poor performance of the Thai standard in certain circumstances what might be perceived as poor service might not be poor but the "western desire for western expectations." For example, wanting servers to speak English in a western style restaurant or to be offered coffee and dessert or a refill of a beer or an explanation of the food or the modifying of the menu or the waitress to talk with the male customer or asking about food allergies. The list goes on with the basic differences.

I guess I'm getting old because I still remember carrying a phrase book and trying to ask in a native tongue if I could get a beer or where I could find the bathroom. I remember speaking in English and having servers look at me like (guess what?) they didn't have a clue about what I was talking. I remember getting food that we did not order and eating it because we were hungry. These were all part of the charms of being in a different culture and a different country.

Again, I'm not talking about poor and/or lackadaisical service that does happen in all countries and some of which is being brought up here and I'm not saying that the western standard or "higher" perceived or desired standard does not on occasionally happen here. TIT.

D

A fascinating insight into Thai serving culture. I usually don't let these things worry me too much but it is nice to know the reason behind the behavior.

You touched on one thing that used to peeve me and that is the waitress refusing to have any interaction with the male (non Thai) customer when he is with a Thai female. At the River Market, on one occasion, I ordered a bottle of wine, pointing it out in the menu to the waitress. She then consulted with my wife about the wine order. My wife had less idea about wine than waitress but somehow between the two of them they seemed to agree that I should be allowed the wine. Or that is how it felt to me.

[theDukes]

 

Better restaurateurs know that customers rightly expect a positive dining experience, not just "a meal", and work hard to provide such an experience. World class restaurants carry this to extremes that would amaze anyone who has not been closely involved with one. Included in the overall dining experience are ambience, service and food quality (There's more.). The experience begins when you walk in the door and ends when you walk out. Everything in between is important, from cleanliness and noise levels to food presentation, and a fair degree of quality in every area is being paid for by perceptive customers whether or not it is received. Excusing Thai restaurateurs because they are Thai is yet another example of 'the soft bigotry of low expectations' that often appears here in various guises whenever legitimate criticism is expressed.

 

I'm sorry but while I agree with you on a few of your arguments I have to disagree on the standards of service. While the dining experience starts and ends at the front door standards are different in Thailand and Thai style service is different than it would be in other parts of the globe. Staying away from a table but standing on point and letting the customer tell the service staff what to do, leaving all dishes until the customer leaves and even a server not speaking can be perceived by Thai customers as "good" service. In Thailand a good server doesn't work for tips and would never suggest what a customer should buy. In fact the only interaction between a server (laborer) and a customer would be a polite wai before and after the meal. Only an owner and/or manager would have a verbal interaction with the guest. Thai customers will know what they want and will grab what appears to be the nearest worker to get it. After the bill is presented and the change made the server would return to the table and hand over the check book and wait while the customer would review his/her change and then deposit a 20 Baht note in the book and hand it back to the server. This is good and maybe exceptional, Thai style service.

What people get confused is the difference in cultures and what they perceive is a level or higher standard of service that they receive elsewhere and compare it to what they want here. Not that this other standard doesn't happen here or happen sometimes. The "soft bigotry of low expectations" is a misguided attempt to impose artificial, perceived and/or western standards or a higher perceived standard on Thai culture and performance. So by implying that those who say that one should expect a lower standard is soft bigotry the actual opposite is true. One should expect Thai style standards. It doesn't equate as bigotry. While this does not excuse the lackadaisical or poor performance of the Thai standard in certain circumstances what might be perceived as poor service might not be poor but the "western desire for western expectations." For example, wanting servers to speak English in a western style restaurant or to be offered coffee and dessert or a refill of a beer or an explanation of the food or the modifying of the menu or the waitress to talk with the male customer or asking about food allergies. The list goes on with the basic differences.

I guess I'm getting old because I still remember carrying a phrase book and trying to ask in a native tongue if I could get a beer or where I could find the bathroom. I remember speaking in English and having servers look at me like (guess what?) they didn't have a clue about what I was talking. I remember getting food that we did not order and eating it because we were hungry. These were all part of the charms of being in a different culture and a different country.

Again, I'm not talking about poor and/or lackadaisical service that does happen in all countries and some of which is being brought up here and I'm not saying that the western standard or "higher" perceived or desired standard does not on occasionally happen here. TIT.

D

A fascinating insight into Thai serving culture. I usually don't let these things worry me too much but it is nice to know the reason behind the behavior.

You touched on one thing that used to peeve me and that is the waitress refusing to have any interaction with the male (non Thai) customer when he is with a Thai female. At the River Market, on one occasion, I ordered a bottle of wine, pointing it out in the menu to the waitress. She then consulted with my wife about the wine order. My wife had less idea about wine than waitress but somehow between the two of them they seemed to agree that I should be allowed the wine. Or that is how it felt to me.

She was probably just checking with your wife to make sure she had the order correct. Thai language speaker to Thai language speaker.

[Chiengmaijoe]

 

Better restaurateurs know that customers rightly expect a positive dining experience, not just "a meal", and work hard to provide such an experience. World class restaurants carry this to extremes that would amaze anyone who has not been closely involved with one. Included in the overall dining experience are ambience, service and food quality (There's more.). The experience begins when you walk in the door and ends when you walk out. Everything in between is important, from cleanliness and noise levels to food presentation, and a fair degree of quality in every area is being paid for by perceptive customers whether or not it is received. Excusing Thai restaurateurs because they are Thai is yet another example of 'the soft bigotry of low expectations' that often appears here in various guises whenever legitimate criticism is expressed.

 

I'm sorry but while I agree with you on a few of your arguments I have to disagree on the standards of service. While the dining experience starts and ends at the front door standards are different in Thailand and Thai style service is different than it would be in other parts of the globe. Staying away from a table but standing on point and letting the customer tell the service staff what to do, leaving all dishes until the customer leaves and even a server not speaking can be perceived by Thai customers as "good" service. In Thailand a good server doesn't work for tips and would never suggest what a customer should buy. In fact the only interaction between a server (laborer) and a customer would be a polite wai before and after the meal. Only an owner and/or manager would have a verbal interaction with the guest. Thai customers will know what they want and will grab what appears to be the nearest worker to get it. After the bill is presented and the change made the server would return to the table and hand over the check book and wait while the customer would review his/her change and then deposit a 20 Baht note in the book and hand it back to the server. This is good and maybe exceptional, Thai style service.

What people get confused is the difference in cultures and what they perceive is a level or higher standard of service that they receive elsewhere and compare it to what they want here. Not that this other standard doesn't happen here or happen sometimes. The "soft bigotry of low expectations" is a misguided attempt to impose artificial, perceived and/or western standards or a higher perceived standard on Thai culture and performance. So by implying that those who say that one should expect a lower standard is soft bigotry the actual opposite is true. One should expect Thai style standards. It doesn't equate as bigotry. While this does not excuse the lackadaisical or poor performance of the Thai standard in certain circumstances what might be perceived as poor service might not be poor but the "western desire for western expectations." For example, wanting servers to speak English in a western style restaurant or to be offered coffee and dessert or a refill of a beer or an explanation of the food or the modifying of the menu or the waitress to talk with the male customer or asking about food allergies. The list goes on with the basic differences.

I guess I'm getting old because I still remember carrying a phrase book and trying to ask in a native tongue if I could get a beer or where I could find the bathroom. I remember speaking in English and having servers look at me like (guess what?) they didn't have a clue about what I was talking. I remember getting food that we did not order and eating it because we were hungry. These were all part of the charms of being in a different culture and a different country.

Again, I'm not talking about poor and/or lackadaisical service that does happen in all countries and some of which is being brought up here and I'm not saying that the western standard or "higher" perceived or desired standard does not on occasionally happen here. TIT.

D

I agree with most of what you said, except the bit at the end where you called him a TIT!

[NancyL]

 

Better restaurateurs know that customers rightly expect a positive dining experience, not just "a meal", and work hard to provide such an experience. World class restaurants carry this to extremes that would amaze anyone who has not been closely involved with one. Included in the overall dining experience are ambience, service and food quality (There's more.). The experience begins when you walk in the door and ends when you walk out. Everything in between is important, from cleanliness and noise levels to food presentation, and a fair degree of quality in every area is being paid for by perceptive customers whether or not it is received. Excusing Thai restaurateurs because they are Thai is yet another example of 'the soft bigotry of low expectations' that often appears here in various guises whenever legitimate criticism is expressed.

 

I'm sorry but while I agree with you on a few of your arguments I have to disagree on the standards of service. While the dining experience starts and ends at the front door standards are different in Thailand and Thai style service is different than it would be in other parts of the globe. Staying away from a table but standing on point and letting the customer tell the service staff what to do, leaving all dishes until the customer leaves and even a server not speaking can be perceived by Thai customers as "good" service. In Thailand a good server doesn't work for tips and would never suggest what a customer should buy. In fact the only interaction between a server (laborer) and a customer would be a polite wai before and after the meal. Only an owner and/or manager would have a verbal interaction with the guest. Thai customers will know what they want and will grab what appears to be the nearest worker to get it. After the bill is presented and the change made the server would return to the table and hand over the check book and wait while the customer would review his/her change and then deposit a 20 Baht note in the book and hand it back to the server. This is good and maybe exceptional, Thai style service.

What people get confused is the difference in cultures and what they perceive is a level or higher standard of service that they receive elsewhere and compare it to what they want here. Not that this other standard doesn't happen here or happen sometimes. The "soft bigotry of low expectations" is a misguided attempt to impose artificial, perceived and/or western standards or a higher perceived standard on Thai culture and performance. So by implying that those who say that one should expect a lower standard is soft bigotry the actual opposite is true. One should expect Thai style standards. It doesn't equate as bigotry. While this does not excuse the lackadaisical or poor performance of the Thai standard in certain circumstances what might be perceived as poor service might not be poor but the "western desire for western expectations." For example, wanting servers to speak English in a western style restaurant or to be offered coffee and dessert or a refill of a beer or an explanation of the food or the modifying of the menu or the waitress to talk with the male customer or asking about food allergies. The list goes on with the basic differences.

I guess I'm getting old because I still remember carrying a phrase book and trying to ask in a native tongue if I could get a beer or where I could find the bathroom. I remember speaking in English and having servers look at me like (guess what?) they didn't have a clue about what I was talking. I remember getting food that we did not order and eating it because we were hungry. These were all part of the charms of being in a different culture and a different country.

Again, I'm not talking about poor and/or lackadaisical service that does happen in all countries and some of which is being brought up here and I'm not saying that the western standard or "higher" perceived or desired standard does not on occasionally happen here. TIT.

D

A fascinating insight into Thai serving culture. I usually don't let these things worry me too much but it is nice to know the reason behind the behavior.

You touched on one thing that used to peeve me and that is the waitress refusing to have any interaction with the male (non Thai) customer when he is with a Thai female. At the River Market, on one occasion, I ordered a bottle of wine, pointing it out in the menu to the waitress. She then consulted with my wife about the wine order. My wife had less idea about wine than waitress but somehow between the two of them they seemed to agree that I should be allowed the wine. Or that is how it felt to me.

Actually, in most restaurants in Thailand they do the same thing to Hubby and me, too, and I'm not Thai. I do speak somewhat better Thai than Hubby, but not much better. I think maybe it's just a culture that the wife is going to take care of her husband. They also bring me the change, even when Hubby pays the bill. Maybe they think I'm more likely to leave a tip.

Edited August 3, 2015 by NancyL

[Mapguy]

Just custom.

[naboo]

She was probably just checking with your wife to make sure she had the order correct. Thai language speaker to Thai language speaker.

This happened to my wife at the River Market. She was with my mother who ordered something, the waitress wasn't sure of the order, checked with my wife in Thai, my wife wasn't sure and went with the waitresses understanding, the order arrived and my mother sent it back as it was not what she ordered. My wife now won't go back as she lost face, when she was trying to save face - her English is far from perfect, our language at home is Thai, but she felt the need to hide this and told me when she got home that she did not know what to do. Ridiculous, I know, but I'm not sure that checking the order with someone who did not make the order is such a great idea.

[bangmai]

I've been amazed at how difficult some of the Thais can make placing their orders at Thai places. My order takes about 5 seconds, and they will go on and on for five minutes...and this can be at a noodle shop. Then they get their food and there is a problem. maybe it is a form of class warfare. but I'm thinking, gee, I barely speak any Thai, been to the place 200 times, never had any problem, and this girl is acting like she is negotiating the sale of a house. Be very careful, who your bring to your favorite places....

Edited August 3, 2015 by bangmai