Dr Thon offers tips on how to protect oneself from box jellyfish attacks

[cumgranosalum]

I think it is fairly obvious from tmany of the posts here that there is a huge ignorance of both Box Jellies and related species and this is lagely due to a lack of information by the Thai authorities. There have been conferences on this in Thailand and recommendations have been made...e.g. setting up of vinegar stations and public info campaigns - of course all of this is een as having the potential to deter tourists so cooperation has been at best reluctant.

Vinegar stations have been set up sporadically here and there but they aren't maintained and it appears notices only go up AFTER a serious incident.

In Australia the stinger is well researched and the seasons well defined.....this is not so for the stingers that inhabit Thai waters (and probably elsewhere in neighbouring countries) .

howeer I can say that the last time I was in Penang we were all well warned of the dangers of stinging jellyfish and advised not to swim in certain areas. Exactly what species they were, I never found out.

As ever the Thai authorities have done a ot of head-nodding and talking, but when it comes to actions - especially those that might impinge on tourist income - they fail to produce.

s

in the long term of course this will have an adverse effect of tourism as no-one wants to visit a country that has a reputation of doing nothing to protect its visitors

[BigBadGeordie]

Dr Thon, vice dean, faculty of fisheries, Kasetsart University basic advice is to refrain from swimming, no shit!

What he actually said was "refrain from swimming during the rainy season', and if you have to " swim where there are waves and cover yourself with body or stinger suit'. All common sense advice i think. But of course leaving these clarifications out enabled you to indulge in your daily fix of Thai bashing didn't it? Carry on making a fool of yourself, it gives plenty of us on here a good laugh!

Thank you for your comment, I am pleased that I keep you amused;-)

[limbos]

Dr Thon, vice dean, faculty of fisheries, Kasetsart University basic advice is to refrain from swimming, no shit!

What he actually said was "refrain from swimming during the rainy season', and if you have to " swim where there are waves and cover yourself with body or stinger suit'. All common sense advice i think. But of course leaving these clarifications out enabled you to indulge in your daily fix of Thai bashing didn't it? Carry on making a fool of yourself, it gives plenty of us on here a good laugh!

The original post of the news was adjusted and now vinegar use is mentioned, but in the wrong order. Using seawater is advised before using vinegar, which is the wrong running order.

Dr Thon is aware of a paper that shows the course of action when dealing with jellyfish stings, but he really doesn't have a clue at all what he's talking about. The official Thai work group, dealing with box jelly fish stings doesn't know this person and is trying to control the 'damage' he's doing.

This is most likely the poster he got parts of his 'knowledge' from. No idea how he came up with the seawater reference.

Edited August 4, 2015 by limbos

[casualbiker]

First time I've seen the reference to soft drink! Does it work?

[AlQaholic]

As an avid surfer, from a very young age, we nippers

approached the surf in Australia cautiously, we studied

the wave patterns, counted the wave sets, located the

rip and lastly before jumping into the surf i would walk

up and down the beach looking at the sand looking for

blue bottles, any jellyfish, if i saw anything i would not

enter the water, i have experienced the pain it hurts.

Just curious, why would you look for blue bottles?

Anyway once the Navy have those submarines they would rid the seas of those pesky jellies in no time!

[mojorison]

A more efficient solution would be to stop overfishing the offshore waters. Sharks and especially sea turtles eat jellyfish. Unfortuatelyrying to explain natural predation as a means of controlling pests is not something Thais understand.

No that's not true. Obviously the gulf is virtually devoid of fish, but the issue of stingers and fish eatin' em is not relevant. Stingers exist.

"Obviously the gulf is virtually devoid of fish..."

Neither is that true. Obviously.

Yes it is a minor embellishment. However the gulf is fetid from top to bottom, and the existence of larger species has been decimated because of the wholesale raping of smaller species (anchovies especially), I dread to think what toxins are present in the shellfish, but I guarantee it would be very concerning. It is a tribute to the tenacity of the jelly fish that they can exist ion such a putrid environment. But I guess that is where life began in a sense, so they have been through quite a lot of hardship in the last 4 billion years or so.

[cumgranosalum]

A more efficient solution would be to stop overfishing the offshore waters. Sharks and especially sea turtles eat jellyfish. Unfortuatelyrying to explain natural predation as a means of controlling pests is not something Thais understand.

No that's not true. Obviously the gulf is virtually devoid of fish, but the issue of stingers and fish eatin' em is not relevant. Stingers exist.

"Obviously the gulf is virtually devoid of fish..."

Neither is that true. Obviously.

Yes it is a minor embellishment. However the gulf is fetid from top to bottom, and the existence of larger species has been decimated because of the wholesale raping of smaller species (anchovies especially), I dread to think what toxins are present in the shellfish, but I guarantee it would be very concerning. It is a tribute to the tenacity of the jelly fish that they can exist ion such a putrid environment. But I guess that is where life began in a sense, so they have been through quite a lot of hardship in the last 4 billion years or so.

You are trying to say that lack of predation is the cause of an increase in the jellyfish population?

I don't believe there is enough solid evidence as yet to support the suggestion of an increase....and even if this were the case it my well not be due to lack of predation of the species....climate change and different conditions in the estuaries and currents could be moving populations around differently....As well as changes brpought about by the massive increases in populations on the islands themselves and the ramifications thereof.

Another factor is the dramatic increase in the numbers of people actually in the sea.

Edited August 4, 2015 by cumgranosalum

[mojorison]

No that's not true. Obviously the gulf is virtually devoid of fish, but the issue of stingers and fish eatin' em is not relevant. Stingers exist.

"Obviously the gulf is virtually devoid of fish..."

Neither is that true. Obviously.

Yes it is a minor embellishment. However the gulf is fetid from top to bottom, and the existence of larger species has been decimated because of the wholesale raping of smaller species (anchovies especially), I dread to think what toxins are present in the shellfish, but I guarantee it would be very concerning. It is a tribute to the tenacity of the jelly fish that they can exist ion such a putrid environment. But I guess that is where life began in a sense, so they have been through quite a lot of hardship in the last 4 billion years or so.

You are trying to say that lack of predation is the cause of an increase in the jellyfish population?

I don't believe there is enough solid evidence as yet to support the suggestion of an increase....and even if this were the case it my well not be due to lack of predation of the species....climate change and different conditions in the estuaries and currents could be moving populations around differently....As well as changes brpought about by the massive increases in populations on the islands themselves and the ramifications thereof.

Another factor is the dramatic increase in the numbers of people actually in the sea.

I am not saying that at all. I am saying that they are virtually unrelated, and as you agree there is little information about it in this part of the world. It is anomalous behavior, There have been 4 cases I can recall in 30 years... no increase there my friend.

[Jai Dee]

As an avid surfer, from a very young age, we nippers

approached the surf in Australia cautiously, we studied

the wave patterns, counted the wave sets, located the

rip and lastly before jumping into the surf i would walk

up and down the beach looking at the sand looking for

blue bottles, any jellyfish, if i saw anything i would not

enter the water, i have experienced the pain it hurts.

Just curious, why would you look for blue bottles?

Anyway once the Navy have those submarines they would rid the seas of those pesky jellies in no time!

Blue bottles is an Australian term for box jellyfish... due to their pale blue colour.

Some interesting reading about their sting and first aid treatment for the venom can be found here.

Wikipedia also has some very good information.

Edited August 4, 2015 by Jai Dee
Additional information and link added.

[Oziex1]

The net they use at Port Douglas will not stop a hungry croc or shark !

Crocs and sharks are not the problem at that area of beach, stingers are and the net is an effective barrier.

[Oziex1]

As an avid surfer, from a very young age, we nippers

approached the surf in Australia cautiously, we studied

the wave patterns, counted the wave sets, located the

rip and lastly before jumping into the surf i would walk

up and down the beach looking at the sand looking for

blue bottles, any jellyfish, if i saw anything i would not

enter the water, i have experienced the pain it hurts.

Just curious, why would you look for blue bottles?

Anyway once the Navy have those submarines they would rid the seas of those pesky jellies in no time!

Blue bottles is an Australian term for box jellyfish... due to their pale blue colour.

Some interesting reading about their sting and first aid treatment for the venom can be found here.

Wikipedia also has some very good information.

Blue bottles are the Portuguese Man of war jelly fish quite different to the Box Jelly, a painful sting but not in the same league as the Box Jelly.

[cumgranosalum]

Yes it is a minor embellishment. However the gulf is fetid from top to bottom, and the existence of larger species has been decimated because of the wholesale raping of smaller species (anchovies especially), I dread to think what toxins are present in the shellfish, but I guarantee it would be very concerning. It is a tribute to the tenacity of the jelly fish that they can exist ion such a putrid environment. But I guess that is where life began in a sense, so they have been through quite a lot of hardship in the last 4 billion years or so.

No that's not true. Obviously the gulf is virtually devoid of fish, but the issue of stingers and fish eatin' em is not relevant. Stingers exist.

"Obviously the gulf is virtually devoid of fish..."

Neither is that true. Obviously.

You are trying to say that lack of predation is the cause of an increase in the jellyfish population?

I don't believe there is enough solid evidence as yet to support the suggestion of an increase....and even if this were the case it my well not be due to lack of predation of the species....climate change and different conditions in the estuaries and currents could be moving populations around differently....As well as changes brpought about by the massive increases in populations on the islands themselves and the ramifications thereof.

Another factor is the dramatic increase in the numbers of people actually in the sea.

I am not saying that at all. I am saying that they are virtually unrelated, and as you agree there is little information about it in this part of the world. It is anomalous behavior, There have been 4 cases I can recall in 30 years... no increase there my friend.

I most certainly don'y agree, there is a lot of information about this part of the world and there is a scientific or critical approach to the problem which you don't appear to be showing....as for your assumption of only 4 cases you are WRONG....and even a little time on google would show you that let alone some proper research.

I think you are simply making up erroneous statements and assumptions from your own prejudices i.e. with no basis in fact or reason.

[cumgranosalum]

As an avid surfer, from a very young age, we nippers

approached the surf in Australia cautiously, we studied

the wave patterns, counted the wave sets, located the

rip and lastly before jumping into the surf i would walk

up and down the beach looking at the sand looking for

blue bottles, any jellyfish, if i saw anything i would not

enter the water, i have experienced the pain it hurts.

Just curious, why would you look for blue bottles?

Anyway once the Navy have those submarines they would rid the seas of those pesky jellies in no time!

Blue bottles is an Australian term for box jellyfish... due to their pale blue colour.

Some interesting reading about their sting and first aid treatment for the venom can be found here.

Wikipedia also has some very good information.

NO!!!!!!

Bluebottle is NOT the Australian term for a box jelly - it is a different animal altogether......THey are a Portuguese Man-o-war jellyfish with nasty stings and a "sail" - they appear like a bottle when beached

[limbos]

Yes it is a minor embellishment. However the gulf is fetid from top to bottom, and the existence of larger species has been decimated because of the wholesale raping of smaller species (anchovies especially), I dread to think what toxins are present in the shellfish, but I guarantee it would be very concerning. It is a tribute to the tenacity of the jelly fish that they can exist ion such a putrid environment. But I guess that is where life began in a sense, so they have been through quite a lot of hardship in the last 4 billion years or so.

"Obviously the gulf is virtually devoid of fish..."

Neither is that true. Obviously.

You are trying to say that lack of predation is the cause of an increase in the jellyfish population?

I don't believe there is enough solid evidence as yet to support the suggestion of an increase....and even if this were the case it my well not be due to lack of predation of the species....climate change and different conditions in the estuaries and currents could be moving populations around differently....As well as changes brpought about by the massive increases in populations on the islands themselves and the ramifications thereof.

Another factor is the dramatic increase in the numbers of people actually in the sea.

I am not saying that at all. I am saying that they are virtually unrelated, and as you agree there is little information about it in this part of the world. It is anomalous behavior, There have been 4 cases I can recall in 30 years... no increase there my friend.

There are way more than 'just' 4 cases in 30 years. That may indeed be what you personally recall, but thee's a lot more cases out there that never make it into the media. Only the fatalities of box jelly fish make it into the media.

Koh Phangan has now since 2002 4 documented box jelly fish fatalities, 2 on consecutive days in August 2002 on Haad Rin, one last year on Bottle beach in August and one this year on Haad Rin again, 31st July.

I can only hope that the authorities, powers that be and vested interest on Haad Rin are willing to listen to experts and do something about the situation. The way the beach is located, it will be fairly easy to put up stinger nets.

This years accident also had three other persons injured at the same moment. Other locations in the Gulf had fatalities as well. Koh Samui back in 1999 on Chaweng beach and Cha'am.

Encounters also happen at the Andaman side.

The list of injured people who survived in the Gulf is sadly enough, fairly long. Almost each year this list grows and there seems to be a concentration in accidents in the August-November period.

[Jonmarleesco]

Thought the arl vinegar thing worked, or is that a myth?

Depends on whether the poison is alkaline or acidic. Simple with bees and wasps, where it's either vinegar or, I seem to remember, among other alkalis, the blue cleaner then used in clothes washing. But jellyfish? No idea whether acidic or alkaline - or neither, which is more likely.

[cumgranosalum]

Thought the arl vinegar thing worked, or is that a myth?

Depends on whether the poison is alkaline or acidic. Simple with bees and wasps, where it's either vinegar or, I seem to remember, among other alkalis, the blue cleaner then used in clothes washing. But jellyfish? No idea whether acidic or alkaline - or neither, which is more likely.

again more misinformation.

The vinegar on Box jellies is not an anti-venom or pain-killer.

It is to "paralyse" the nematocysts - the micro-stinging mechanisms along the tentacles and prevent or at least reduce continued envenomation.

Removing the tentacles without doing this will stimulate further action and the victim wil be put in more danger.

there has been research that suggested that vinegar may not do this, but at present it is out-weighed by research to the contrary, and the established method of application of vinegar still prevails.

[limbos]

^^ fully agree with above information by cumgranosalum!

[Boo]

a couple of off topic posts removed

[cumgranosalum]

The OP by Dr Thon is highly misleading.

Do NOT take this a being correct information at all.

Those involved in spreading information about jelyfish consider this post to be misleading

[MiKT]

I find some of these replies a little disturbing. Coming to dive in Thailand in the early 80's we were well informed about the existance of box jellies. Having been introduced to the friendly embraces of normal fat jellies on HK night dives, we were very alert to the possibility of meeting one. Did all this information just disappear ?

[cumgranosalum]

Sadly it seems that despite conferences, campaigns by victims families, the Thai authorities still take the attitude that if they ignore it, it will go away.

Whether or not this is intentionally done in an effort to maintain tourist numbers or whether they are just being plain ignorant I couldn't say.....

Any precautions like vinegar posts and warning signs are either put up AFTER the event or simply left to fall into disrepair.

[cumgranosalum]

As a counterbalance to the crap reported on Dr Thon's article, let me quote from 2 experts in this field.

1 - "Angel"

"I am a research professor at the University of Hawaii with 20 years of experience in focused research on the composition of cubozoan venoms and the mechanisms of pathogenesis. There are over 30 different species of box jellyfish. One family is large, about basketball sized, with up to 15 tentacles per corner. These are called Chirodropids. The other family are the Carybdeids which have only one tentacle on each of the 4 corners. These can vary from thimble sized to 16 inch x4x4 inch bells. The entire class cubozoa (box jellyfish) is dangerous. Deaths have been recorded due to about 8 different species: the large Chirodropid Chironex, as well as Chiropsalmus. Deaths have also occurred after tiny Carukia barnesi as well as Alatina alata and other carybdeid stings. Many carybdeids feel at night. It seems that many if not most of the deaths in Thai waters have been due to chirodropid stings. Because of the size these can often be spotted during the day. Sting nets are sometimes used. It is always prudent to wear full coverage if box jellies are suspected- long sleeve rash guards and long swim pants or 1 mm exposure suits. If stung vinegar spray followed by hot water immersion should be used. I have developed novel technologies now used by US special forces ( stingnomore.com) . Be aware that stings can cause respiratory distress but this is not to be confused with allergic anaphylaxis. Epipens should never be used without clearly determining that the victim is hypotensive (has catastrophic low blood pressure). Lives have been lost due to well intentioned epi administration to attempt to manage respiratory distress. Box jellyfish venom causes a massive and direct increase in victim epinephrine. Adding more can cause end organ failure and cerebral hemorrhage."

2 - L.Gershwin......

Like Angel, I am a researcher on box jellyfish. The box jellyfish is the only thing on the natural world that locks the heart in a contracted state, and after that point (typically 2-4 min) nothing will work to revive it. The top priority is obviously therefore not to get stung. If stung, minimize further envenomation by urgent application of vinegar (DO NOT use freshwater, which will cause more stinging cells to fire and increase the venom load). If the victim passes out or stops breathing, IMMEDIATELY begin CPR - it appears that in some cases if you catch it early enough, you may be able to prevent the heart from locking by keeping blood pumping. All things considered, box jellyfish fatalities are rare compared to the number of people swimming each year in tropical waters. However, they do occur. There was an earlier comment about only two fatalities in Thailand -- this is inaccurate -- there have been many confirmed, and an inestimable number unreported. Don't rely on things like vinegar or showers or sting salves or anything like that to save your life -- use common sense -- these species are the most venomous animals in the world and need to be respected. Cover your skin (Lycra, neoprene, pantyhose), and don't get stung in the first place.