Land Price Increase In Chiang Mai

[tom joad]

Not long ago in Chiang Mai Citylife I saw something about an increase in the price per square wah in and around Chiang Mai, and that some local real estate agents had filed a grievance about government-imposed increases being unrealistically high.

Does anybody know anything about this?

[astral]

Very strange.

I would have expected these prices to be market driven,

not government regulated.

[tom joad]

Very strange.

I would have expected these prices to be market driven,

not government regulated.

Thanks for the reply, Astral.

Like you, I would also think that real estate price increases are market-driven. However, once I saw the following July issue Citylife Forum (Local News) posting, I decided to take a back seat and watch the real estate market more closely for a while before investing in a Chiang Mai property, which I was (and still am) planning to do.

Unfortunately, there was only one response to the posting. So, I'm curious as to what people on this site think, and what they may have heard over the past couple of months.

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Posted: Wed Jul 05, 2006 8:18 am Post subject: Rising Land Values ‘Out of Touch with Reality’

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Rising Land Values ‘Out of Touch with Reality’

The Chiang Mai-Lamphun Real Estate Association has raised a complaint against the government’s revised land value is being higher than reality.

“The increased official appraisal price has triggered a rise in land price to a value that is out of reach with reality and is likely to halt the investment in a near future”, said Nont Hirunchet, the association’s committee. He cited the doubled land prices in tambon Paton of Muang district from 6500-7000 to 12,000-15,000 baht a square-wa as an example. “Most of housing estates target at middle and working class people but the price has climbed enormously and become unaffordable for them”, Nont explained. The risen price might affect the real estate growth as the businesses in Chiang Mai and Lamphun are recently on a rise.

The Finance Ministry reports that 115 housing estate projects have been launched offering almost 22,000 houses in the first quarter of 2006. Collection of Chiang Mai’s land trade fee in May 2006 stands at over 48 million baht, emphasizing the boom of real estate.

“Introduction of a number of mega projects in Chiang Mai is the main factor driving an increase of the real estate investment”, said Nont.

Hang Dong district is Chiang Mai’s prime location for housing estates. “Average land price in Hang Dong stands at 5500-12500 baht a square-wa and most of the housing estates in the district are large-scales or luxurious housing projects”, Nont continued. Many housing estates are also mushrooming in San Sai and Doi Saket districts as a result of improvement to the city’s ring roads and the construction of underground tunnels to ease congestion.

[lannarebirth]

I've bought and sold several pieces of property near Chiang Mai and prices paid are only driven by market forces. I believe the "official appraisal" is used for taxation and loan funding matters.

[Rinrada]

Definately market forces driven and C.M. has done a nice little body swerve with their land prices.

Some have reached what can only be "Cloud koo-coo" levels but as long as there are people willing to part with their dosh to secure their dream...."Capitalism lives"...

Met a guy last time who bought a little house with an even smaller "patch" of land for.............

Rough guess I would say that its been doubling each year for at least the last the last 3.......where to next....and how ...Far.........

[cclub75]

Anyway don't worry, Chiang Mai Bubble is going to burst pretty soon... because Thaksin has been ousted !

No more crazy megaprojects, no more "Safari Night Day Moon Zoo", no more 8767 km of new lines of undergound and sky train for next year, no more Walt Disney Thai Theme park ("to compete with Hong Kong"), whatever.

[ThaiPauly]

Anyway don't worry, Chiang Mai Bubble is going to burst pretty soon... because Thaksin has been ousted !

No more crazy megaprojects, no more "Safari Night Day Moon Zoo", no more 8767 km of new lines of undergound and sky train for next year, no more Walt Disney Thai Theme park ("to compete with Hong Kong"), whatever.

Amen to that

[lannarebirth]

Anyway don't worry, Chiang Mai Bubble is going to burst pretty soon... because Thaksin has been ousted !

No more crazy megaprojects, no more "Safari Night Day Moon Zoo", no more 8767 km of new lines of undergound and sky train for next year, no more Walt Disney Thai Theme park ("to compete with Hong Kong"), whatever.

I hope you're right about the megaprojects, but I think you're wrong about land values. I'm starting to see another move up. Just this week AI'm getting lots of calls for a piece I just listed. I've already turned down an offer. Compared to ,any other parts of Thailand it still presents good value. I'll grant you it's not as cheap as Isaan though.

[BlackArtemis]

I have noticed a genral increase in just the last few months. My Fiancee and I are not sure about how long we will stay in Chiang Mai or when we will go to the States etc so while we want to buy a house its a little shakey. But it may just be a smarter idea to buy land now and work out the other details later.

[tom joad]

I have noticed a genral increase in just the last few months. My Fiancee and I are not sure about how long we will stay in Chiang Mai or when we will go to the States etc so while we want to buy a house its a little shakey. But it may just be a smarter idea to buy land now and work out the other details later.

Thanks for the observation and what sounds like good advice BlackArtemis.

Thanks also, both to you and all of the others who have taken the time to respond.

Nevertheless, since I'm in no real hurry to make the kind of move you suggest, I have the luxury of watching the price of land rise or fall, over the course of the next few months/years - whatever, which I have decided to do.

However, other than you and a maybe couple of others in this thread, so far nobody else seems to be all that concerned about how quickly the prices have gone up.

Of course, from an investor's point of view, that is all well and good, especially in the cases where some lucky soul's property has doubled in value from one year to the next. Unfortunately, that is precisely what concerns me the most.

Such rapid rises are often attributable to a knee-jerk reaction to "demand" and do not always reflect a fair market value, which begs the question: can those who are about to invest in higher-priced property around Chiang Mai be guaranteed an equitable return on their investment in the years to come, should they decide to sell?

I've been following several Chiang Mai realtors' websites this past year, and there are MANY nice-looking properties that are obviously not moving. And, like anyone else, I don't want to fork out a sizeable chunk of savings on property that I can't get back if I (or my wife) need to sell it in the future. Plus, I don't want my investment to suffer a 60% loss, which reflects the increase in costs at some of the the newer developments over the past year or two.

[Loom]

Probably the best way to watch the market is to be on the ground, looking and asking. I don't know about those govt appraisals...might be land with house.

Wife and I looked around for the past year, not in the city, but north and south ~10-30km nearby and along the river. Almost universally people were asking Bt1m/rai for raw land. We have friends who purchased land on the river probably 5 years ago for the same price. Maybe there are bubbles in certain areas of CM, but apparently not where we were looking, though I think that BT1m/rai is a steep price to pay. I don't see any way land priced at this level would be profitable as farmland.

We did find land priced lower than that, but I'd say 80% of the time the starting price was 1m. If you're interested in avoiding a big loss, a lot harder trying to do it in an armchair. I'd recommend going out on the ground and finding a property that's being offered at a discount to other property on offer in the adjacent area for no other reason than a motivated seller.

[rishi]

I've been following several Chiang Mai realtors' websites this past year, and there are MANY nice-looking properties that are obviously not moving ...

Many of the smaller agents, don't bother to update after sales. If someone should inquire for a house that already has been sold - the worst thing that could happen is that the inquirer isn't interested in anything on stock. So don't count on a website listing at last years prizes - it might have been sold last year.

[tom joad]

I've been following several Chiang Mai realtors' websites this past year, and there are MANY nice-looking properties that are obviously not moving ...

Many of the smaller agents, don't bother to update after sales. If someone should inquire for a house that already has been sold - the worst thing that could happen is that the inquirer isn't interested in anything on stock. So don't count on a website listing at last years prizes - it might have been sold last year.

Yes, "some" sites don't update and are perhaps so far outdated that they are now basically useless, with mostly dead links. However, others, such as First National (and others), do make an effort to keep their sites properly maintained, and they provide relatively instant communication in response to inquiries. Furthermore, some of these sites provide the dates the add was posted, although I have to wonder if the original posting date is lost whenever an ad is renewed. In any event, some of these posting dates go back almost a year, and perhaps more.

And, as for Loom's suggestion to basically "hunt and gather" - that's fine for those property seekers who want to live outside the beaten track, but many of us want at least some semblence of "security" that a gated community might provide. That is what I was referring to in an earlier post, regarding the seemingly overnight 60% increase in property and building costs in some of the newer developments, particularly between the airport and Hang Dong.

What I truly want to know is: how sound of an investment is Chiang Mai real estate at the current rates? And, can MOST property buyers/house builders, at best, get back (if they decide to sell) what they invest?

[lannarebirth]

And, as for Loom's suggestion to basically "hunt and gather" - that's fine for those property seekers who want to live outside the beaten track, but many of us want at least some semblence of "security" that a gated community might provide. That is what I was referring to in an earlier post, regarding the seemingly overnight 60% increase in property and building costs in some of the newer developments, particularly between the airport and Hang Dong.

What I truly want to know is: how sound of an investment is Chiang Mai real estate at the current rates? And, can MOST property buyers/house builders, at best, get back (if they decide to sell) what they invest?

Hi Tom,

I have a house in one of those developments between the airport and Hang Dong and it's value has not increased 60% overnight. It's worth about 4 million and it's in a development of 3 - 12 million baht homes. If I had to sell it in 2 days I could get 3.5 million easily. Could it go down to 3 million or 2.5 million if the economy weakened? Sure it might, but that's really not much risk. compared to the fact it's in a good location in the nations second largest city, whose population is becoming better educated and more prosperous by the year.

You know Tom, I trade stocks for a living and it's really hard for me, as I see most of the things I trade being without much intrinsic value. Compared to most places I've ever been (and probably where you're from too), I find land and homes here are dirt cheap and I'd be very surprised if that remained the case. I'm not saying you should speculate in real estate Tom, but everyone has to live somewhere and if you pay a little bit over or a little bit under present market value it's really not going to matter much later is it?

[backflip]

"Such rapid rises are often attributable to a knee-jerk reaction to "demand" and do not always reflect a fair market value"

I'm not sure what sort of economic model you've dealt with in the past, but in a "supply and demand" paradigm, both "supply" and "demand" drive the "fair market value".

[think_too_mut]

I just don't know why would a land locked, irrelevant place, as Chiang Mai command any real estate prices.

Could be, it's heading the same way as Nevada, Arizona, New Mexico..when in 20 yrs all the residents either die or are good for nothing.

The strength Thai economy has exercised and enjoyed has been - close to the ports, young and cheap labour.

In a year or two, we may see some decay of Hua Hin and the places "on the wrong side of the airport".

The deposed PM tried to make something of Chiang Mai, crazy projects somebody mentioned earlier, even shifted a portion of TG flights to originate from there but it was mostly his political will, nothing really demanded by the public.

Also, has not Pattaya became the second largest city in the country where the second is 2% of the population (and market) of the capital?

I would know I am wrong when there are many reports about BKK graduates migrating towards Chiang Mai.

IMO, that place lives in the heads of rich Thai retirees, farangs and regional airlines who want to bring customers to something not seen before.

Junk investment it is, in anything there, IMO.

[tom joad]

"Such rapid rises are often attributable to a knee-jerk reaction to "demand" and do not always reflect a fair market value"

I'm not sure what sort of economic model you've dealt with in the past, but in a "supply and demand" paradigm, both "supply" and "demand" drive the "fair market value".

Hi Backflip and Lannarebirth:

First, let me clarify something to Backflip.

The knee-jerk reaction to demand comment that you responded to is in reference to the demand for the newer moo baans, where so many people are now having houses built. The supply and demand paradigm that you mention is perhaps moreso a reference to all-available-properties inclusive. And my perception of that is: there are vast numbers of "used" houses available on the market in Chiang Mai, many of them of exceptional value for price - many of them not (check out Professionals and First National websites). Yet, in recent years the new, gated-community developments have seemingly sprung up in a lot of areas around CM, most notably between the airport and Hang Dong.

(This is where my response includes you as well, Lannarebirth).

My wife and I became very interested in one of these places late last year. We are still not quite ready to move to Chiang Mai on a permanent basis. However, when we first heard (according to one such new development's website) that we could have a 3br house built on a reasonably-sized plot of land for @1.7 million Baht, we decided to look into it. However, because of the website not being updated for such a long time, when we visited and enquired, we found that the second phase of the development (almost completed by the time we got there) had gone up from less than 8,000 Baht per sq wah to 9500, which meant an overall increase in cost of more than 500,000 Baht, including construction cost increases.

Unfortunately, there were no available properties that satisfied our needs (size, location). So we decided to wait for the next phase. By the time that was in the final planning stage, even the staff seemed unsure as to what the new prices would be. The most senior person available to us when we toured the development a second time said the cost would probably rise to 10,200 per square wah. Later on, in an email, another staff person said the price would fall into the range of between 9500-11,000 per sq wah. However, when the first notification of the commencement of the third phase came out, the price was suddenly up to 12,000 per sq wah. Plus, the costs of construction also went up again.

However, what kicked us the hardest was the realization that the same-sized house in the same development that once would have cost us @1.7 million would now cost us closer to 3 million.

That is what I was referring to when I mentioned the seemingly overnight 60% increase, Lannrebirth.

And, yes, Backflip, this is all due to the same supply and demand paradigm we are both well aware of. However, from my perhaps overly cautious point of view, such a rapid increase in value could very well fall under the "too good to be true" umbrella. Maybe it's the number (60%) that screams "Buyer beware!" to me. That's the amount of salary cut I took (overnight!!!) when I worked in SE Asia in 1997, a time when everything in the region appeared to be booming and going stronger-than-expected, economically-speaking.

Thus, what had first attracted our attention, a home in a city and country that we have grown to love over the years, for a very agreeable price has now just become a dream - yet to be realized.

Hopefully, it will still happen, just not as soon as expected. And if I'm wrong, and the price keeps going up?

Well, we can always rent!

Cheers.

[rishi]

I just don't know why would a land locked, irrelevant place, as Chiang Mai command any real estate prices.

Could be, it's heading the same way as Nevada, Arizona, New Mexico..when in 20 yrs all the residents either die or are good for nothing.

The strength Thai economy has exercised and enjoyed has been - close to the ports, young and cheap labour.

In a year or two, we may see some decay of Hua Hin and the places "on the wrong side of the airport".

The deposed PM tried to make something of Chiang Mai, crazy projects somebody mentioned earlier, even shifted a portion of TG flights to originate from there but it was mostly his political will, nothing really demanded by the public.

Also, has not Pattaya became the second largest city in the country where the second is 2% of the population (and market) of the capital?

I would know I am wrong when there are many reports about BKK graduates migrating towards Chiang Mai.

IMO, that place lives in the heads of rich Thai retirees, farangs and regional airlines who want to bring customers to something not seen before.

Junk investment it is, in anything there, IMO.

I've heard rumeurs, that the flow of tourists from China, Japan and that neighborhood will increase way beyond the level of Western tourists going to Pattaya, Phuket nowadays... I've heard rumeurs that a lot of those tourists might go by land or prefer to have their Thailand tour start in the closest Thai international airport. .. I've also heard rumeurs that something called Asean treaties are evolving which would put Chiang Mai in the center of where the logistics of 3-4 Asean member's mutual trade, would be most beneficial.

But that's just rumeurs, I've heard...

[Loom]

"Such rapid rises are often attributable to a knee-jerk reaction to "demand" and do not always reflect a fair market value"

I'm not sure what sort of economic model you've dealt with in the past, but in a "supply and demand" paradigm, both "supply" and "demand" drive the "fair market value".

Hi Backflip and Lannarebirth:

First, let me clarify something to Backflip.

The knee-jerk reaction to demand comment that you responded to is in reference to the demand for the newer moo baans, where so many people are now having houses built. The supply and demand paradigm that you mention is perhaps moreso a reference to all-available-properties inclusive. And my perception of that is: there are vast numbers of "used" houses available on the market in Chiang Mai, many of them of exceptional value for price - many of them not (check out Professionals and First National websites). Yet, in recent years the new, gated-community developments have seemingly sprung up in a lot of areas around CM, most notably between the airport and Hang Dong.

(This is where my response includes you as well, Lannarebirth).

My wife and I became very interested in one of these places late last year. We are still not quite ready to move to Chiang Mai on a permanent basis. However, when we first heard (according to one such new development's website) that we could have a 3br house built on a reasonably-sized plot of land for @1.7 million Baht, we decided to look into it. However, because of the website not being updated for such a long time, when we visited and enquired, we found that the second phase of the development (almost completed by the time we got there) had gone up from less than 8,000 Baht per sq wah to 9500, which meant an overall increase in cost of more than 500,000 Baht, including construction cost increases.

Unfortunately, there were no available properties that satisfied our needs (size, location). So we decided to wait for the next phase. By the time that was in the final planning stage, even the staff seemed unsure as to what the new prices would be. The most senior person available to us when we toured the development a second time said the cost would probably rise to 10,200 per square wah. Later on, in an email, another staff person said the price would fall into the range of between 9500-11,000 per sq wah. However, when the first notification of the commencement of the third phase came out, the price was suddenly up to 12,000 per sq wah. Plus, the costs of construction also went up again.

However, what kicked us the hardest was the realization that the same-sized house in the same development that once would have cost us @1.7 million would now cost us closer to 3 million.

That is what I was referring to when I mentioned the seemingly overnight 60% increase, Lannrebirth.

And, yes, Backflip, this is all due to the same supply and demand paradigm we are both well aware of. However, from my perhaps overly cautious point of view, such a rapid increase in value could very well fall under the "too good to be true" umbrella. Maybe it's the number (60%) that screams "Buyer beware!" to me. That's the amount of salary cut I took (overnight!!!) when I worked in SE Asia in 1997, a time when everything in the region appeared to be booming and going stronger-than-expected, economically-speaking.

Thus, what had first attracted our attention, a home in a city and country that we have grown to love over the years, for a very agreeable price has now just become a dream - yet to be realized.

Hopefully, it will still happen, just not as soon as expected. And if I'm wrong, and the price keeps going up?

Well, we can always rent!

Cheers.

Tom,

I'm not terribly familiar with that segment of the market in Chinag mai, but based on what's happening in and around Bangkok, there's not a big risk that the market will collapse like it did in the late 1990s, but things are slowing and pricing could flatten out or drift slightly lower in the coming months. There's relatively little inventory overhang compared to the mid-1990s, so even if demand collapses, any price correction shouldn't be too bad. The indicators for pricing that I've seen for bangkok condos shows that price increases are slowing. Overall sentiment has been hit by rising interest rates and oil prices.

Bangkok condo prices approximately doubled from 2000 (some of that is due to a higher proportion of high priced units) and that would correspond to the price increases reported for Chiangmai. Most of the increases came in the past two years or so. But if that's put into context, the market has just played catch up. Pricing hadn't gone anywhere for many years after the financial crisis. Cheap money all around for the past three/four years pretty much explains revival in the market. But in Thailand's case, the economy is on much firmer footing since the crisis. Banks have been lending again and companies are investing. That's also contributed to the revival in property markets.

It many look a lot more expensive now, but relative to other markets still a bargain. I'd be reluctant to chase markets when they are moving higher and faster esp. now that things are slowing globally due to higher interest rates and oil prices, in addition to stricter regulations for foreign property purchases. Odds are you'll be in a better bargaining position in another 12 months. Developers aren't that capable of predicting the market and will probably have projects that will be completed in the coming months that were planned based on stronger expected levels of demand.

[tom joad]

Hi Loom, et al:

This link may or may not not be directly related to my original inquiry about rapid land value increases in Chiang Mai, but it does address my concerns about markets that grow at too rapid a pace.

http://articles.moneycentral.msn.com/Inves...y.aspx?GT1=8689

Is this an echo of 1997?

As the saying goes, "Once bitten, twice shy."

[Loom]

This is diverging from the original question, but the markets are all inter-related and driven by the same key variables at the end of the day...monetary and fiscal policy. People have been harping on the global trade imbalances almost as long as the "bubble" in US property market (for the past 3-4 years). This time around, however, it's the US that's dealing with the imbalance, but since the "US consumer" has a lot of economic clout with the Asian, low-cost export economic model, it wouldn't be good for anyone. Based on what has happened since the last crisis, Thailand and its property market are on much better footing if there's turbulence ahead.

It's probably worth considering if you're in the market looking to buy next week. It's very difficult to predict if you're gonna make a quick gain or loss on property for these reasons, so it's probably better just to focus on what you can control with your own actions and that would be finding something that's being offered at a large relative discount. Then you've got a safety cushion if a bubble bursts or the world economy does fall apart.

There's an interesting discussion on Bangkok condo prices somewhere else in this forum.

[cclub75]

I've heard rumeurs, that the flow of tourists from China, Japan and that neighborhood will increase way beyond the level of Western tourists going to Pattaya, Phuket nowadays... I've heard rumeurs that a lot of those tourists might go by land or prefer to have their Thailand tour start in the closest Thai international airport. .. I've also heard rumeurs that something called Asean treaties are evolving which would put Chiang Mai in the center of where the logistics of 3-4 Asean member's mutual trade, would be most beneficial.

But that's just rumeurs, I've heard...

I've heard another one : the level of oceans is going to increase because of global warming, Bangkok would be wipped off. And government would relocate in the mountains, in Chiang Mai.

[THAIJAMES]

regarding the Thai government Valuations. These are what the land department assess the value of the property for land transfer taxes and does not reflect the real market value of the land. some people are complaning that in some areas the government's assessment of land values is too high compared to the market value. (And some areas are very low, but no one complains about that!)

Regarding the rise of property values in Chiang Mai, most of the rises took place 2 or 3 years ago. This year the price of real estate has stabalized and there is much less interest.

Some areas are still hot, for example the Nimanhemin area. Generally I don't think prices have significantly gone up in the last year. Of course you have plently of Thai owners that think their property is worth much more than market value. but they are not actually able to sell their land.

[teletiger]

Hang Dong district is Chiang Mai’s prime location for housing estates. “Average land price in Hang Dong stands at 5500-12500 baht a square-wa and most of the housing estates in the district are large-scales or luxurious housing projects”, Nont continued. Many housing estates are also mushrooming in San Sai and Doi Saket districts as a result of improvement to the city’s ring roads and the construction of underground tunnels to ease congestion.

My wife has 200 square wah, just outside Hang Dong, for sale at 4000 baht per square wah. 6 months on and still no takers. Maybe we should double the price

Regards

[cmsally]

Hang Dong district is Chiang Mai’s prime location for housing estates. “Average land price in Hang Dong stands at 5500-12500 baht a square-wa and most of the housing estates in the district are large-scales or luxurious housing projects”, Nont continued. Many housing estates are also mushrooming in San Sai and Doi Saket districts as a result of improvement to the city’s ring roads and the construction of underground tunnels to ease congestion.

I was looking at houses in Lanna Pinery last week and for land prices there they are charging 13,900Bt/square wah. I also checked out Home in Park and if memory serves me correctly it was exactly the same price. Anyone know if this is a recent increase or has it been this price for a while, price seems a bit over the top to me. Has anyone bought to rent in this area , is the return rate realistic. Any opinions or thoughts or knowledge on this??

These prices seem to suggest an increase from some of the earlier posts. Or is just a certain sector of the market that's performing well (this would be my opinion).

[lannarebirth]

Hang Dong district is Chiang Mai’s prime location for housing estates. “Average land price in Hang Dong stands at 5500-12500 baht a square-wa and most of the housing estates in the district are large-scales or luxurious housing projects”, Nont continued. Many housing estates are also mushrooming in San Sai and Doi Saket districts as a result of improvement to the city’s ring roads and the construction of underground tunnels to ease congestion.

I was looking at houses in Lanna Pinery last week and for land prices there they are charging 13,900Bt/square wah. I also checked out Home in Park and if memory serves me correctly it was exactly the same price. Anyone know if this is a recent increase or has it been this price for a while, price seems a bit over the top to me. Has anyone bought to rent in this area , is the return rate realistic. Any opinions or thoughts or knowledge on this??

These prices seem to suggest an increase from some of the earlier posts. Or is just a certain sector of the market that's performing well (this would be my opinion).

I don't know about the specifics of those moo baans, but I think I'm developing some insight into how things work. My girlfriend owns a house in Moo Baan Nai Fun(which seemingly has about 30% of it's homes for sale or rent). The day after she bought it, a couple of years ago, she put up a "For Sale" sign, (asking about 50% more than what she'd paid). She had no intention of selling her home, but she was leaving herself open for the possibility of a windfall profit, with which she could buy a bigger house. . Now, she's getting lots of people coming by to look around the house and she's afraid someone might buy it, so she's thinking of raising the price, because what once seemed like a windfall is now very close to the market price, and if there's no windfall to be had, why sell? . So, this is what I'm thinking. If she is in any way representative of other "sellers", perhaps there is less housing inventory for sale than a drive around might suggest, and that could be pressuring prices higher.

Edited October 18, 2006 by lannarebirth

[BlackArtemis]

Well since my last post in the thread I had some things solidified (attending payap next year for an MBA) so I have a down payment waiting as we look at houses. While I was looking at houses I saw the general gated village asking 15-18k per wa.

Non gated village 11-14k

Other land 5-12k

The sad fact for me is that I would love to buy into the gated communities since after I am done my MBA we will probally be in and out for months at time. So knowing my house has an alarm, and is watched by survielence makes me happy.

But when I hear of 4k/wa in Hangdong I dream of the money I can save....

[ataloss]

In our area of CMai suburbia southwest of Sanpatong halfway to Mae Wang, prices are slowly climbing as land plots continue to sell at prices as low as 1000Baht/TW.

I agree the prices in CMai and areas North and East of CMai are well out of reach of the average Thai and those farangs wishing to not only own land, but to build their retirement villa. Someone mentioned 15000 per TW (12 mil per rai), yet a recent check came to close to double that, which is one reason these new houses are built on only 45-50 TW. Visits to these areas by potential buyers will confirm this. While visiting the new housing estates where neighbors share views through adjacent windows, and where your neighbors’ laundry decorates the front lawns, their radios beat incessantly, and their jerry-rigged carports obstruct all free-flow of breeze, take time to check the nearby on-going construction: houses tend to sink overtime on reclaimed rice fields, footings too narrow or too wide to prevent the house subsiding on any but gravel soil ( note all the cracked walls throughout Thailand), use of thin, smooth ‘hun’ steel wire instead of thick, ribbed ‘rebar’ in the concrete, bamboo slats as opposed to proper wire hun mesh in the concrete slabs, cheap roofing foil or lack of any insulation whatsoever… the list goes on: inexpensive- yes, but a place to bring up a family or to retire– hmmm…. Now you know why many homes in the CMai area realty magazines have been listed, in some cases, for the last 3 to 5 years and are yet to sell; caveat emptor! There are currently only two new gated-community developments off the new bypass near Payap University which IMHO are well-designed and constructed including the use of the new Euro-Blok; but these houses average 12 to 14 million Baht each.

If you’ve seen and appreciated the 4-lane highway at the CMU canal running past the Night Safari, you may be interested in knowing it is being extended straight thru where it and the canal veer off towards Sanpatong to the main highway from CMai. The newly-surveyed extension of the CMU-Night Safari canal 4-lane highway is to continue directly south to bypass the heavily congested ‘Airport Plaza-Lotus-Lanna Intl School-hang Dong-Sanpatong’ highway: it will open up direct rapid access to the city from the ‘Sanpatong-Doi Law-Mae Wang Tri-district intersect’ just South-Southwest of Chiangmai. Instead of the current ~40-km trip via the foregoing congested road past Lotus-airport to Sanpatong where one turns right towards Mae Wang, the newly-surveyed Night safari/canal bypass should be only ~20Km of 4-lane rapid access.

Thais in the know are continuing to buy up land in this area including Japanese buyers via Thai wives or partners some of whom already own upwards of 60 rai old-growth longan orchards near us. Thai doctors, military and police officers, businessmen from Bangkok, teachers, plus ‘gentleman’ farmers are our neighbors. While not a daily occurrence, their friends and colleagues are nonetheless purchasing on a monthly basis and not using realty brokers but via the village Kamnan or headman. In the last two years roads and bridges in this area have been greatly improved; the gravel road past our property being upgraded to a beautiful two-lane paved road linking the main Chomtong-Hang Dong-Chiangmai route. The influential Thais moving here obviously have a voice in local government construction.

Suggest you contract your own home, on your piece of heaven in the Tri-District border area if you care to. Anywhere there will do. Take a car ride with the family to meet any of the village headmen throughout the area who will steer you to what’s for sale until you fall in love once again - with that perfect location. Have your Thai partner invest in at least four rai to preserve your sanity against future noise pollution and unsightly housing onslaughts, should the area quickly become suburbia. The prices here are the least expensive in all of Chiangmai…so far. Most are titled NorSor3 which are all currently being upgraded en mass by the government land office which started about 3 years ago. Keep in mind though, rice fields, normally sor por kor, are generally suitable for rice plants-not houses.

You don’t have to live directly in Chiangmai to still appreciate it, at a reasonable price; so why not pack a picnic and enjoy your treasure hunt before the new exrtension is actually completed and land prices go through the ceiling like the areas already mentioned in the posts?

Just luv Chiangmai - don’t you?

Regards, Ataloss

[BlackArtemis]

What is the commute time to the old city from there? One of the reasons those gate communities look so nice is that they ARE close to Payap. I plan on getting my MBA there and my fiancee is applying for a teaching posisition within the TEFL department.

[ataloss]

What is the commute time to the old city from there? One of the reasons those gate communities look so nice is that they ARE close to Payap. I plan on getting my MBA there and my fiancee is applying for a teaching posisition within the TEFL department.

Because the route is 4-lane most of the way from Sanpatong it's about 35mins to the AirportPlaza traffic lights. The same to Payap if you turn East off the 4-lane Cmai-Sanpatong at the new bypass intersection(the one with the very visible countdown timer) to the main CMai_Bkk superhwy. A lot less once the newly-surveyed 4-lane opens to the canal road as you will no longer have to go into Sanpatong to access CMai.

If you are really going to invest in a gated facility, I suggest you go there several times at night to check the noise level, and to visit several times on weekends to check out your future neighbours' impact on your quiet study time. Try to buy at the rear of the community to avoid the noise of the daily commute past your house. Check the site well before purchase to view ongoing construction, and speak to any current owners as to whether they'd buy into that estate had they the chance to do so again. Remember too that this home will be your 1st and last purchase! Chances of resale are negligible considering Thais hate 2nd-hand houses (ghosts and all), and future new housing will be priced to sell at around the same as your asking price or less. Farangs tend to up their prices a heck of a lot, just like they do when selling their cars. Have fun....

Wow! Just Luv Chiangmai!