I'm self employed via an online sales and skype mentoring business, 40y.o. I'm looking to relocate to BKK to live close to my Thai GF with a view to getting married in the next year and hopefully staying on.

I genuinely wish to study Thai language while continuing to get my web based income and considered the Non-Immi ED visa and can comply with the attendance, but a Thai-based legal service suggested "One Year Multiple Entry Non-Immigrant Visa" (no class specified). According to them...

This one year visa will allow you to stay 90 days for each entry, within the One Year Period. If you would like to stay in Thailand for longer than 90 days then you will only have to do go cross the border or leave Thailand and come back to renew your 90 days Visa.

With this One Year Non-Immigrant Visa from oversea, you will be able to obtain a work permit and apply for the Business Visa in Thailand

I won't need a work permit because my money comes in via Paypal/direct deposit from my clients around the world. Upon telling Thai-based legal service this, they still suggest the above, saying I can then study Thai as little or as much as I wish/can without the attendance minimums.

Yes, I understand well that you will not be also needing a work permit in Thailand. We have chosen the most appropriate category for processing your one year multiple entry non-immigrant visa.

If it were that easy, wouldn't every student do it that way?

Australia Royal Embassy conflicts this with

To ask for Non-Immigrant B (Multiple Entry), you need to have the work permit first, which you can obtain once arrived Thailand and already have employer only. Therefore, you can do this type of visa in Thailand only.

Am I getting mixed info, or just half the facts?

Thanks!

It does not matter where the money comes from, the fact that YOU are in Thailand, means that in theory, you would need a work permit. That said, there are thousands of people who do the very same as you without one. :-)

How do I get a work permit from myself?

Work permits are issued by the Department of Labor, not by the employer, and they are not issued to the self-employed.

I suggest you use the search feature to find and read the many long discussions about digital nomads.

"I genuinely wish to study Thai language while continuing to get my web based income and considered the Non-Immi ED visa and can comply with the attendance, but a Thai-based legal service suggested "One Year Multiple Entry Non-Immigrant Visa" (no class specified). According to them I won't need a work permit because my money comes in via Paypal/direct deposit from my clients around the world. Upon telling Thai-based legal service this, they still suggest the above, saying I can then study Thai as little or as much as I wish/can without the attendance minimums."

If you want an ED visa you can get one legitimately with an invitation from a school but there are people, including lawyers, that can arrange any visa, illegally, at a cost. If you get a legitimate ED visa you must attain a minimum number of hours at the school each week. You don't need an ED visa to study, any visa will do, although your options at 40 are very limited.

Working while resident in Thailand requires a work permit and it doesn't matter if your paid or where the money comes from. Operating an online business would be classed as working. If you want to work legally you need a work permit that can only be issued by the Labour department if you are employed by a Thai entity or if you set up a partnership or company that employs you. Any business you set up requires a 51% Thai majority shareholder. A self employed Alien doesn't qualify for a work permit. Setting up partnerships and companies is very expensive and probably not cost effective unless your business is very profitable. You need to employ a minimum of 4 Thais etc, and if you want an extension of stay based on employment you need to be paid a minimum of 50,000 baht per month and pay tax.

Thai authorities are aware that many Aliens work online from within Thailand but don't seem to actively pursue them for prosecution. However, if they know about it they would probably take action which is likely to include a fine and deportation. People that work here illegally keep quiet about it and stay under the radar. They never disclose the fact to immigration.

Thanks for the detailed reply!

If you get a legitimate ED visa you must attain a minimum number of hours at the school each week.

Well this was my plan A because I do want to put in the hours.

Working while resident in Thailand requires a work permit and it doesn't matter if your paid or where the money comes from. Operating an online business would be classed as working.

This is the grey area, because I'd basically be sitting on my ass while sales of digital products come into the bank. If I visited 5 countries on the way to Thailand when orders took place, I'd be classed as working in each of those countries? Well not really but you see what I'm getting at. I'd still be paying tax in my own country on those sales I assume.

If you want to work legally you need a work permit that can only be issued by the Labour department if you are employed by a Thai entity or if you set up a partnership or company that employs you. Any business you set up requires a 51% Thai majority shareholder. A self employed Alien doesn't qualify for a work permit. Setting up partnerships and companies is very expensive and probably not cost effective unless your business is very profitable. You need to employ a minimum of 4 Thais etc, and if you want an extension of stay based on employment you need to be paid a minimum of 50,000 baht per month and pay tax.

I definitely have no interest in working for or starting any Thai companies. Perhaps down the track with my future wife but not in my own endeavors.

So any idea what Visa classification specifically this Thai company seems to be telling me to go for? Maybe they're holding back until I choose to use them.

Visa info sure is confusing. I've tried the search function on the forum but not having a lot of luck.

What ever you do, Don't be using that legal company that advised you.

That company offering you a type O multi entry but they using hooky contacts & details to get it.

I would simply do tourists for a good year as cheap & simple & legal & if you do get married then go to savannakhet & get your own type O multi entry or do required procedure for extension of stay based on marriage.

You’re welcome.

Anyone visiting Thailand as a tourist can continue to remotely operate their businesses whilst in Thailand. But anyone living here needs a work permit. Once you get a Non-Immigration visa you’re not considered a tourist anymore. However, earning a passive income is perfectly fine.

The Thai agent is either looking to sell you a Non I ‘B’ visa which on its own does not enable you to work, but would be necessary if you wanted to get a work permit, or a Non I ‘ED’. If you genuinely wish to study then a Non I ‘ED” would be the best option. You do not need an agent to apply for any visa. ED visas are simple to get once you have a school to sponsor your application. ED visas have been on the radar for a while because they have been abused for years by people that don’t spend one hour in the classroom and only use them as a means to live here. The authorities are getting more proactive and doing spot checks at schools, therefore, it’s not a good idea to go that route unless you intend to study.

I assume from your post that you are Australian and still in Oz. Unfortunately your choice of visas is limited due to your age. You could buy an Elite Visa for 500,000 THB which would give you unlimited multi entries and the right to live her for up to 6 years. Or you could stay here with Tourist visas which require exiting the country every 2/3 months. Theres no limit to the number of Tourist Visas you can have but after 3 or 4 you might be asked to prove the source of your income before getting more. Or the only Non Immigration visa that fits you is the ED.

You could apply for the ED visa in Australia with the help of a school. If you don’t know which school you want to study at then I suggest you apply for a double entry Tourist visa in Australia. That will give you 60 days when you first arrive which can be extended another 30 days at an immigration office once in Thailand for 1,900 baht. At the end of that 30 days you would need to exit Thailand, turn around and re-enter to activate the second entry. Again you get 60 days is extendable by 30 days. So one exit and two 30 day extensions gives you about 6 months.

During that 6 months you’ll have time to find the school you want to study at and can study with the Tourist visa. Then towards the end of your 6 months you can get the school to sponsor an ED visa which you can easy get from a neighbouring country. Or you could go for another Tourist visa from a neighbouring country.

As you are planning to get married you could live here using Tourist Visas until you get married. Once you are married you can get a Non I ‘O’ on the basis of marriage. Savannakhet in Laos is the best place to apply. You can get a 1 year multi entry visa which requires exists every 3 months and gives you up to 17 months. Or a single entry that will give you an initial 90 days which can be extended to 1 year at an immigration office for 1,900 baht. With a 1 year extension you don’t need to exit every 3 months just report to immigration.

A marriage visa is a better option than an ED visa. Marriage makes starting a business slightly easier and if you go down that route a Non 'O' based on marriage can be used in place of a Non 'B' if applying for a work permit

The system looks a little confusing but it’s fairly straightforward. Based on limited info I'd say your best bet is to use tourist Visas until you know if the marriage is happening and the decide again. I appreciate that someone with the skill set to work remotely feels aggrieved with the Thai laws but if Thailand openly allowed those workers they’d have to allow others.

@Bigt3116 "Yet another case of someone knowing a little bit and passing it off as fact. there are a few ways around the 4 employees rule, and the minimum wage for an extension of stay is nationality based."
As a shareholder and Director of two limited companies I am as qualified as anyone to give advice and know the facts. I’m aware of the minimum wage national scale but as the OP mentions Australia in his post I quoted the requirement for that nationality. The “4 employees rule” is not a rule it’s law, and I’m also aware of the ways that some use to circumvent the law.

Edited August 6, 201510 yr by elviajero

Thanks again @elviajero

Really appreciate you taking the time to demystify so much of what's been confusing me.

FTR, Yes, I'm an Aussie in Australia.