Hello all.

I’m a newbie and I hope you all can help me out with a big Non-Immi B visa mess I’m in the middle of.

I’m a 53 year old USA passport holder. I have taught ESL in Asia for 10+ years and vacationed often in Thailand during that time. I am currently living in Nong Bua Lam Phu City with my Thai wife ( ring only, no papers ). I got my first teaching job in Thailand a few months ago, and that’s where my problem starts.

I signed a contract with a private regular school ( Pratom 1~6 ) in Nong Bua and taught there from May 25 to July 23 of this year, 2015. I got the Non-Immigrant B visa – which I paid 100% for, visa and travel costs - and a week later I quit the school ( I know that looks bad for me. I can give the details in a follow up post if asked for ). The manager was very angry and insulting. She said she would send a letter to Udon Thani Immigration and cancel my Non-Immi B visa. I told her this was not possible since the work permit was never applied for ( I got most of my information from this forum. Thanks. ). She laughed it off and said something to the effect of “why is my information wrong too many times?” We then had a nice conversation about me finishing off some paperwork and when I could collect my salary. She said if I was leaving Nong Bua City and planning to teach at another school, then the visa would be “OK”. But I didn’t trust her, because her English is not very good and I had had a problem already in Vientiane because of documents she didn’t supply. So I planned to go to Udon Thani Immigration

On Aug 4, my wife and I went to Udon Thani Immigration to check on my visa status. A middle aged man - maybe the director? - spoke to us and assured us that no one can cancel my visa since no work permit was issued, that I would have no problem getting a work permit from a new school in any province, and added that it would be best if I applied very soon for that. One thing we asked him was to check the computer, but he declined to do so.

The next day, Aug 5, we went to Phitsanulok City and signed a contract with a school there. It is a new private English institute that opened in January 2015. Everything there went great. The Phits’ director and her business partner are professional, courteous, intelligent people who seem to genuinely care about their staff and students. The director is a friendly Thai woman whose English is native speaker level. She is well informed and explained everything that the school and I would need to do for my work permit, etc. We returned to Nong Bua on the 6th.

Then yesterday the Phits’ director called me to say she spoke with Phits’ Immigration and they told her that because the Nong Bua school’s name is written in pen above the visa sticker in my passport, I need a release letter stating my last day of employment at the Nong Bua school, and that I would have to leave the country and obtain a 30 day tourist stamp on my return, effectively cancelling my Non-Immi B which I paid 100% for. This was the exact opposite of what Udon Immi told me. I didn’t ask for the letter when I resigned because all the info I had read said I didn’t need one if I didn’t have a work permit. After the Phits director spoke to Phits Immi 2 more times confirming I need the letter, I called the Nong Bua school manager. Her English is not very good, so she texted my wife and sent her a photo of a 1 page document in Thai that she said was a “visa cancellation letter” that she had sent to Nong Bua Immigration on July 23 and she would not do any more. We replied that we had gone to Udon Immi and they told us my Non-Immi B was fine. The mgr said that the cancellation was “automatic” – a google translation of the Thai word she used – and that probably the immigration staff didn’t know about it, and added that I was now on overstay and would have to pay a lot of money when I apply for a new visa. My wife said that in the texts the manager “spoke bad” to her. This sounds unbelievably ridiculous to me and smells like harassment and intimidation. But I also remember something that the other teacher at Nong Bua school told me more than once about how the owners were “connected” to powerful people in Nong Bua. At the time I dismissed it, but now I wonder.

Anyway, we were traveling on a bus at the time, so after 4 hours of confusion and bad phone signals, I had my wife ask the Nong Bua mgr if the Phits director could call and speak with her. In hindsight maybe a bad idea. My wife said she agreed, and backed off her aggressive tone and said basically “she can call, but I don’t know anything.”

The Phits director’s plan was to ask for a release letter which stated that Aug 13 was my last day of employment since I had some training scheduled until the 11th and I would need to leave the country on the date on the letter. After what seemed a long time, 20~30 minutes, the Phits director called with bad news. She seemed to take the Nong Bua mgr at her word, and I felt the Phits director was washing her hands of me. She wouldn’t give me details of the conversation, and simply told me that the Nong Bua mgr sent a cancellation letter to Udon Immi and I would have to go to Udon Immigration and get information. !!! She is well aware of my visit to Udon Immi. She told me she would try to help me, to call her, blah blah – I feel that’s just blowing smoke at this point. I think she was scared off by the Nong Bua mgr who is a veteran of the school system and the Phits dir is all new to this.

So now I am very confused. I already cancelled my scheduled training at their head office in Pattaya ( maybe some of you can figure out the Phits school by now ) and I’m trying to figure out my next move. My money is just under 40,000 baht right now, I am supporting my wife’s family of 4, and I have no other job prospects. Yes, I can re-apply to more schools, borrow some money from my family in the states which is no fun, and go through this “process” all over again, but… right, is it worth it? So my questions are:

1: Am I on overstay right now, which means I need to leave the country ASAP?

2: Should I go back to Udon Immi and have someone check the computer for verification?

3: I’m thinking about marrying my wife legally and getting a Non-Immi O, but will that make obtaining a legal job easier for me?

4: Do I have any legal recourse against the Nong Bua school?

Please, any clarifying info on my situation is much appreciated. I’m ready to pull up stakes and go to Vietnam at this point. Help!

Thanks in advance.

The question is as to where you obtained what you call the non immigrant 'B' visa, at Thai Immigration, or from a Thai Consular facility outside of Thailand?

1: Am I on overstay right now, which means I need to leave the country ASAP?

2: Should I go back to Udon Immi and have someone check the computer for verification?

3: I’m thinking about marrying my wife legally and getting a Non-Immi O, but will that make obtaining a legal job easier for me?

4: Do I have any legal recourse against the Nong Bua school?

1. It depends on the expiration date of your permission to stay, which you have not mentioned.

2. No. Check your passport. On your arrival stamp, what is the date after "admitted until"?

3. No.

4. Accusing the school of what?

No immigration office can cancel visa obtained at an embassy or consulate. They can only cancel an extension of stay that they issued.

You apparently are still on the 90 day entry from a non-b visa since you never got work permit needed to apply for an extension.

It not unusual for immigration not to accept a non-b visa entry for an extension if their is annotation on the visa about the employer that supported the application. Not sure why there would be any contact yet with immigration since you have not gotten a work permit which is done by the Labor ministry.

Thank you all for your replies.

To answer your questions:

I received my Non-Immigrant B visa from the Thai Consulate in Vientiane. It is dated 14 July 2015. The “Admitted until” stamp date is 12 Oct 2015.

I realize I misspoke in my question #4. I meant to ask if I should seek a lawyer’s advice, not actually sue the Nong Bua school. Sorry.

Yes, I am still on the original 90 day entry stamp. No extension was ever issued by an immigration office.

There was contact with immigration because the Phits director is being very pro-active in making sure what needs to be done for my work permit before the papers are submitted.

I spoke to the Phitsanulok director again today. She told me that the Labor Office in Phitsanulok told her that it is impossible for them to issue me a work permit for one school that was sponsored by another school. So I will have to leave Thailand and get a 30 day tourist entry stamp and then apply for a new Non-Immi B sponsored by the Phits school.

So now my plan is to do a visa run to Vientiane sometime next week.

2 questions:

From all of your replies, it appears that I will not have to pay any overstay fees if I leave Thailand next week, is this correct?

Also, can I immediately re-enter Thailand after receiving my entry stamp in Vientiane?

Thanks.

Your new school should be able supply you the paperwork for a new non-b visa. I cannot understand why you would need to go out for a new entry since your current entry is still valid.

You are not on a overstay because you entry is still valid. It cannot be canceled.

I cannot understand why you would need to go out for a new entry since your current entry is still valid.

Yes, ubonjoe, we also cannot understand this. But Phitsanulok Labor office is telling us I cannot use the Nong Bua school sponsored Non-Immi B to get a work permit from the Phitsanulok school.

So that's where we are. I need to get a new Non-Immi B from the Phits school which the Phits Labor Office will accept to issue me a work permit. Which means cancelling the Non-Immi B I have now by leaving the country and getting a 30 day tourist stamp, which can be used to apply for the new Non-Immi B as long as it has 15 days left on it.

You have put my mind at ease about the overstay charges. Thanks for that. I always thought my old manager was just trying to scare us. And I'm sorry my wife got involved in the discussions because she really did get worried.

I don't think the local immigration office will be able ot convert you visa exempt entry to a non-b visa.

That's a good point. I expect I'll have to leave Thailand again in 2 weeks to get my new Non-Immi B visa in Vientiane. The Phits director assured me many times that she spoke to the correct people - I think she said the local immigration office - who told her I can apply for a Non-Immi B if I have at least 15 days left on my 30 day stamp. Maybe "apply" is not the right word , but that's the idea.

Thanks everybody for your help.

Cheers!

Since you plan on going to the consulate for a tourist visa, why not get the correct paperwork and apply for a B Visa instead?

Even if it takes a few extra days to get the paperwork, you're not close to being on overstay yet.

Since you plan on going to the consulate for a tourist visa, why not get the correct paperwork and apply for a B Visa instead?

Even if it takes a few extra days to get the paperwork, you're not close to being on overstay yet.

Just guessing, but maybe the Phits labour office won't issue the work permit application/under consideration letter (which the OP would need for his non-B application in Laos) because of his current visa status, in that it was sponsored by another school?

Both Phits immigration and labour offices have been great for the last 16 years i have been here, both appear to be straight shooters.

Since you plan on going to the consulate for a tourist visa, why not get the correct paperwork and apply for a B Visa instead?

Even if it takes a few extra days to get the paperwork, you're not close to being on overstay yet.

Just guessing, but maybe the Phits labour office won't issue the work permit application/under consideration letter (which the OP would need for his non-B application in Laos) because of his current visa status, in that it was sponsored by another school?

Both Phits immigration and labour offices have been great for the last 16 years i have been here, both appear to be straight shooters.

He will be working as a teacher. Teachers do not need a work permit application approval letter to get a non-b visa.

Since you plan on going to the consulate for a tourist visa, why not get the correct paperwork and apply for a B Visa instead?

Even if it takes a few extra days to get the paperwork, you're not close to being on overstay yet.

Just guessing, but maybe the Phits labour office won't issue the work permit application/under consideration letter (which the OP would need for his non-B application in Laos) because of his current visa status, in that it was sponsored by another school?

Both Phits immigration and labour offices have been great for the last 16 years i have been here, both appear to be straight shooters.

He will be working as a teacher. Teachers do not need a work permit application approval letter to get a non-b visa.

Cheers Joe

Very much appreciated all of your replies. They have all helped me get a clear picture of where I stand and what I need to do.

I’ve decided to cut my losses and decline the position in Phitsanulok. Looking at the raw numbers it doesn’t make sense for me to take the job. I’d have to pay approx 15,000 baht to jump over the border twice, attend a “required training” in Pattaya, and do all the paperwork, and I’d only receive 3000 back after several months. I don’t have the funds right now, and I’m going to use what I have to feed my family.

I informed the director of this today. We were both very sorry and she understood my decision and wished me well. She even offered me an open door if I ever considered working for her school in the future, saying she would gladly welcome my return. Very pleasantly surprising and gratifying.

In the 10 weeks since I started teaching in Thailand I have experienced the following:

1. I was missing 2 documents when my first school sent me to Vientiane for the Non-Immi B. I had to stay an extra day, and the entire trip was paid for by me. Whether it was the school’s fault or that of Thai immigration is debatable.

2. The same school repeatedly gave me wrong information about the visa process, whether intentional or not I’m not sure.

3. I skype interviewed with another school and was told that the director wanted me. The recruiter repeatedly assured me for a week that the position was mine and we discussed at length the job requirements. My wife and I were packing our bags to go to sign the contract, when the night before he called to say the director hired someone else.

4. My wife and I flew to Bangkok where I interviewed with a corporate education company. Again I was assured by the recruiter that I was perfect for this one position, discussed it at length, promised me emails, wanted me to sign in 2 days time, yadda yadda. After I left the office I never heard from her again.

5. Even the Phits director, as helpful as she has been, again wrongly stated in an email to me yesterday that my current Non-Immi B visa is invalid at this time.

So at this point, even if I had the money to go through the work permit process, I wouldn’t. I don’t have the patience or confidence in the system anymore to do everything required for a teaching position in Thailand. The salaries aren’t good enough for me to endure the trouble and expense. I’ve heard many times that it has become much more difficult in the last 2 years for ESL teachers here and many are leaving to other more hospitable countries in the region. I can say now I know why. My wife and I were planning to move to Japan or Malaysia next year, 2 countries that I know and love very well. Now we’ve decided that I will borrow some money from family and relocate asap. We’ll be able to support our family of 6 and have a comfortable and secure life. I wish it wasn’t so, I love living in Thailand, but even my wife agrees that Thailand is not the place for us to make a living.

Perhaps in the future after I obtain a CELTA or an MA, I can return and teach in Thailand. In the meantime I can visit my Thai family in the small village I love on my vacations and enjoy this country again.

Thank you and good luck to you all.

Godspeed