Raising a quadrilingual kid?

[kennypowers]

I speak English to my young daughter, her mum speaks central Thai to her and her aunt speaks Chinese to her Get as many languages in as you can at a young age as the brain just soaks them up, unlike when you're an adult.

[recycler]

We are in a similar situation, but as my wife spends much more time with the kids because I'm working I have decided to focus on English first to make sure they have one strong western language next to Thai. My native language, Dutch will follow later, same as Swedish it's not a language that is spoken globally.

I consider it very important that our kids learn to think and communicate in English as Thai language comes with a lot of social programming that I would actually rather avoid at young age.

Dear Recycler, I was in a similar situation and made a similar decision but regret it now. Let me explain.

My wife native language is Portuguese and mine is Dutch. We have virtually always lived outside our home countries (now a number of years in Thailand) and no plans to permanently return to our home countries. We always communicated in English wherever we lived (over 15+ countries) and as a result my wife does not speak Dutch and I do not speak Portuguese. When my daughter was born in the US I decided (for a number of reason) to only speak with her in English while my wife speaks Portuguese with her when I was away from home for my work (or when they don't want me to hear what they are talking about).

Hindsight I regret this decision as I realize now that my daughter would easily have learned a 3rd language. She is now 13 and may not have been able to speak fluent Dutch but enough to be accepted at her International school in Bangkok for Dutch classes.

We just returned from a vacation in the Netherlands and I noticed that it was difficult for my daughter to communicate with her age group and other family members who do not speak English well enough. This isolated her quite a bit. A few weeks earlier we were in Brazil and my Daughter had a much better time there as she could communicate in Portuguese. My daughter actually "blames" me a bit for not speaking Dutch with her at a much younger age. She has now decided to put in some effort to learn Dutch.

In summary my recommendation would be to teach the child the mother tongue of both parents in addition to any other language that may be required.

Thank you for sharing your experience. I certainly intend to insert Dutch in the language mix, but before that I want them to have a firm basis in English to balance the Thai that they speak all day with my wife. I'm working and spent less time with the kids than my wife, so I decided to push forward on the English first followed by Dutch.

My problem is that Thai language is highly inefficient and causes many misunderstandings and even worse, every sentence that people speak with each other is modeled around vice versa confirmation of the relative status of the people that communicate. From the first words that kids learn in Thai they learn to speak in a ranking system. If you literally translate a conversation between Thai people it sounds ridiculous. It doesn't help the message if it's cluttered in non-essential formalities titles and having to confirm and re-confirm in every sentence who is the older and who the younger one. It also doesn't help if people have to refer to themselves as "mouse" because they are considerable younger than someone else. Thailand has a very strict caste society and that is highly reflected in the language.

I recently read some research done among bi-lingual people that speak German and English and their personality was different in either language due to the means of expression that the language offers. This made me really scared about the influence of Thai language on our kids personalities.

[elgordo38]

There really is no limit to the number of languages we as people can learn. Most are just too lazy to teach their children. When you have children start before birth. Then i would suggest each parent use their native language in speaking with your child. Local dialects such as isaan will come along when your child begins playing with others. Then fill in other languages with songs, cartoons and in every speech. Some experts believe the magic age is 3. to get yheir brains hardwired to learning languages. My little one now understands english, thai, issan, french, and just yesterday she was singing a song in japanese although neither my wife nor i speak it. She can repeat the sounds and can find objects in all the languages. It does not confuse them as we do separate who speaks which language so that she will speak french or english with me but hardly ever uses thai (even if i ask in thai where are your shoes her reply comes in english, same if moma asks her in english my daughter will reply in thai).

So in a nutshell speak as many languages as you can they are like little sponges and will sort it out in time.

I think the above poster is correct. When small I was learning English and while visiting my sainted grandmother (a lot) she taught me Pennsylvania-Dutch. My mind sorted it all out. I speak well no understand some French and Spanish. To this day a lot of the PD still sticks in my head and I can follow German to some degree if it goes slow enough. I am amazed when reading about people who can speak up to 10-15 languages but then a lot of languages are similar in nature. If you speak Italian for instance you can follow Spanish and some other languages. I think there are also root languages possibly Italian being among them. Speaking multiple languages broadens the mind I believe. In the world of the future I the speaking Chinese would definitely be an asset.

[Tony125]

I used to date a Thai who formerly was married to a Swiss and travelled back and forth to Thailand. She had a 5 1/2 yo daughter she was raising in Switzerland who could speak to me in English but also spoke Thai , Swiss and German. They can pick up languages very easily at young age becomes more difficult as we get older. We do't learn our native language by going to school children already know how to talk in native tounge when they start school.

Should teach her Thai and Swiss and then English as she has world wide opportunities if she can speak it well. English has repalced French as the lingua franca = world language

[Rayinbkk]

A good starting point is for each parent to use their own mother tongue when speaking to their children. It is best to try to maintain consistency. This is not as easy as it sounds. If the parents use a third language when speaking to each other, the child will automatically become involved in those conversations over time. You should definitely try to speak Swedish yourself as it might well be the only chance the child has to master that language. The easiest of the languages for the child to learn is likely to be Thai as you are living in Thailand and there will be a lot of exposure to it. In your place, I would consider switching to speaking English with my wife so the child gets early exposure to that language which will otherwise be the weakest. Also, remember that while all normal children can learn languages, this does not mean that they all have an equal aptitude for them. Some children manage multiple languages much better than others. Finally, you can find you have less control over the process with a second child. A new facor enters into the equation when the first child decides what language to speak to the second!

[atyclb]

yours is truly a wise decision posting the question for the thaivisa developmental experts

[banglassie]

A good starting point is for each parent to use their own mother tongue when speaking to their children. It is best to try to maintain consistency. This is not as easy as it sounds. If the parents use a third language when speaking to each other, the child will automatically become involved in those conversations over time. You should definitely try to speak Swedish yourself as it might well be the only chance the child has to master that language. The easiest of the languages for the child to learn is likely to be Thai as you are living in Thailand and there will be a lot of exposure to it. In your place, I would consider switching to speaking English with my wife so the child gets early exposure to that language which will otherwise be the weakest. Also, remember that while all normal children can learn languages, this does not mean that they all have an equal aptitude for them. Some children manage multiple languages much better than others. Finally, you can find you have less control over the process with a second child. A new facor enters into the equation when the first child decides what language to speak to the second!

Good point, however my wife don't speak English. She works for CPB and have had next to zero reason to ever speak English. While she does understand a lot she's way too shy to try and speak in public, or even longer sentences with me. I can kind of understand that, many older people in Sweden and Norway know English well, but they simply refuse to speak since they feel very uncomfortable.

my Thai is good, but needs some improvement when it comes to spelling, but as for speaking I have no problems to understand central Thai, Isan and Southern. My dads best friends where Thais when I was young, and they were living in an apartment next to ours in Stockholm, I used to run in and out of their home all the time, it was like a portal to another world with weird sweet coconutty snacks. While they did speak some Swedish they spoke Thai to me since I was about 2-3 years old. To this day I'm certain it helped me a lot in understanding and pronunciation. I never studied Thai in school, but I do still read and write (but spelling can be confusing at times, as stated before).

My point is, it would feel very unnatural for both of us to change to English, and I feel quite sure the English level we would use would just be confusing. I would prefer if my kid learns English and not Thinglish. And I feel me, my friends and TV, movies, games etc. will help that more than me and the wife speaking it.

Then again we really should speak English instead of Thai to help my wife get better, but changing things that have been going on for years is not the easiest, it can be done while trying to do it, but if not thinking about it I'm sure everything will just fall back into old patterns.

Edited August 13, 2015 by banglassie

[banglassie]

yours is truly a wise decision posting the question for the thaivisa developmental experts

So far so good I'd say. I'm amazed not more negative Thai-bashers have surfaced, but there you go.

I'm sure nobody would let TVF have the final say in ones decision, but it is a discussion board, seems wise to use it for some constructive discussions and theories instead of just going on a rant, no?

[DLang]

yours is truly a wise decision posting the question for the thaivisa developmental experts

You mean those that have been there, done that, multiple times for decades?

With 4 such contrasting languages, being able to read and write all four fluently, will definitely give them a massive advantage in the future if they ever get involved with MNC's in the region

.

[Mudcrab]

yours is truly a wise decision posting the question for the thaivisa developmental experts

Especially when some have kids fluent in two or three languages at 3 years old..

I suspect fluent may mean something to them other than the english term with which I am familiar.

[nakhonandy]

I wouldn't worry too much about what language to use, probably your mother tongues are best as you and your wife are fluent in these. The rest will come from school (a good one) and interaction with others.

I lived in Holland for a long time and speak dutch, however I only ever spoke my native English to my daughter, she is now fluent in both.

As many have said, kids are like sponges, they soak it all up and sort it out themselves, usually better than us!

At home in Thailand I speak English to my son and my wife speaks Thai. He understands both.

[DLang]

Also important that up until the age of 7-8, children don't learn languages, they acquire them.

Language acquisition, I believe, is the term.

They acquire them via exposure. Expose them as much as possible up to this age.

Interestingly enough, any children that were found to be 'wild' in jungles etc, that were past this age could not be taught how to speak.

At the age of 7-8 the development changes occur and they no longer 'acquire' their languages, from then on their brains learn them the same way we do as adults.

Edited August 13, 2015 by DLang

[hellohello123]

I speak 2.5 languages. Ie two fluent and one fairly basic

I have same ethnicity parents and speak that language and my home countrys and another one that i studied at school that i continued after school

This is not what you are want to hear but unless your child is very talented at languages and both parents put in a heck of a lot of effort and resources. Four languages. In your dreams

Id say 2 would be max

If your definitiom of fluent is being able to order at the local restaurant or have a few lines of conversation with grandparents or be able to read a street sign or two. Then go for it

A lot of these kinds of relationships. The parents often become complaceant and often deluded that think speaking multiple languages is easy as whispering a few words into the kids ear at night and rxpect them to be fluent

The reality is far different and if you are not careful you are going to get a child thats crap at every language and once enrolled in school is going to be behind from day one or confused why a certain word he knows doesnt make sense to anyone

These kids often get so confused and as they get older say "F this, im just going to learn one language. And even hate the other languages

Obviously if the 2 or 3 or 4 langauge are similar then its less of a problem. Eg say french and spanish

[AlQaholic]

My advice is to focus on two languages, Thai of course and then you must speak English to the kid. I myself is Swedish, my wife and I speak Swedish to each other, I speak English and Thai to our Daughter and Mother speaks Thai to her. Kid is fluent in Thai, a bit shy on the English but she understands well, has picked up a few words of Swedish, but we try to discourage Swedish as much as possible.

Anything watched on the TV when I am around (including the children stuff) is in English. No Thai soaps and that other show crap, but Thai News is OK.

I assume you live here in Thailand, right?

While I completely see what you are doing, would it not be worth to know Swedish fluently if only for the reasons she:

1. is partly Swedish and will have a Swedish passport?

2. probably have family over there?

3. Since education is both free and good she could go and study there if she wants to?

I live in Thailand yes.

I agree totally with your points, if the eventual goal is to go live in Sweden it would be a good point to learn Swedish as well. However it seems over the recent decade or more the Swedish public (free) education system is declining in quality as are the private schools as they are purely profit makers and do not seem to care too much how many kids they put in every class or how they conduct their studies. Might be better off elsewhere educationalwise. Only things still good in Sweden are the universities.

My friend who lives in Thailand let his kids go to public schools here in Thailand but managed to find the right (good) ones with a little bit of money passing under the table, and when it came to going to Universities they where both well prepared, one studied in ABAC here in Thailand and the other went to Australia and studied there, they are currently doing very well, both completed university with honors.

Edited August 13, 2015 by AlQaholic

[oztaurus]

Look into the linguistic work of Noam Chomsky and the Language Acquisition Centre in the brain - he postulates that exposure to multiple languages at an early age are kind of like taking a snapshot in an old film camera. the foundations are laid down like an undeveloped negative. In later life when the child starts to study the language more formally it is like developing the film ..... learning becomes much, much easier.

[manfredtillmann]

i have raised 2 bi - lingual girls and have only ever encountered one quad - lingual CHILD. despite constant exposure to two (or 4) languages, in each case the children developed a liking and preference for the language surrounding them, to the point where my very german ' wife 1' talked to them in german but only ever received replies back in australian. talking german was just 'too uncool'.

it benefitted both girls during their hsc (high school certificate) by giving them a high score in someting they did not have to practice for very much and allowed them to enter university with higher qualifications.

my advice is to evaluate the commercial benefits of the language you can instill in your children the best. if you can employ third parties, such as daycare or babysitters, let them do their thing.

good luck

[smotherb]

My kids are already fluent in Thai and English. I they are 4 and 3 years old. I would like

to introduce a third language but cannot decide which one. We live outside Bangkok so i guess

Mandarin or Russian would be a good choice.

What 3rd language woudl you guys choose for a half British Half Thai kid?

American would be nice. Seriously, it really depends on their future endeavors. If they are to be expat business types English is the best worldwide. However, looking for a third language for staying in Asia, Mandarin would be useful. If to the Americas, Spanish would be beneficial. If returning to Europe, Russian may help. Those choices are dependent upon major economic forces on those areas which speak less English. Most business people in Japan, Korea, Germany and France speak English.

[duanebigsby]

My kids are already fluent in Thai and English. I they are 4 and 3 years old. I would like

to introduce a third language but cannot decide which one. We live outside Bangkok so i guess

Mandarin or Russian would be a good choice.

What 3rd language woudl you guys choose for a half British Half Thai kid?

Mandarin for sure.

for job opportunities.

[ozyjon]

Why in the whole world (except France) is there such

a huge focus on learning English and why do so many

people travel the world teaching English ?

Tell me.

[Happy Grumpy]

Why in the whole world (except France) is there such

a huge focus on learning English and why do so many

people travel the world teaching English ?

Tell me.

Because computer keyboards are in English.

(prepares for simpleton posters who think that might a serious comment)

Edited August 13, 2015 by Happy Grumpy

[benalibina]

We are in a similar situation, but as my wife spends much more time with the kids because I'm working I have decided to focus on English first to make sure they have one strong western language next to Thai. My native language, Dutch will follow later, same as Swedish it's not a language that is spoken globally.

I consider it very important that our kids learn to think and communicate in English as Thai language comes with a lot of social programming that I would actually rather avoid at young age.

Dear Recycler, I was in a similar situation and made a similar decision but regret it now. Let me explain.

My wife native language is Portuguese and mine is Dutch. We have virtually always lived outside our home countries (now a number of years in Thailand) and no plans to permanently return to our home countries. We always communicated in English wherever we lived (over 15+ countries) and as a result my wife does not speak Dutch and I do not speak Portuguese. When my daughter was born in the US I decided (for a number of reason) to only speak with her in English while my wife speaks Portuguese with her when I was away from home for my work (or when they don't want me to hear what they are talking about).

Hindsight I regret this decision as I realize now that my daughter would easily have learned a 3rd language. She is now 13 and may not have been able to speak fluent Dutch but enough to be accepted at her International school in Bangkok for Dutch classes.

We just returned from a vacation in the Netherlands and I noticed that it was difficult for my daughter to communicate with her age group and other family members who do not speak English well enough. This isolated her quite a bit. A few weeks earlier we were in Brazil and my Daughter had a much better time there as she could communicate in Portuguese. My daughter actually "blames" me a bit for not speaking Dutch with her at a much younger age. She has now decided to put in some effort to learn Dutch.

In summary my recommendation would be to teach the child the mother tongue of both parents in addition to any other language that may be required.

Thank you for sharing your experience. I certainly intend to insert Dutch in the language mix, but before that I want them to have a firm basis in English to balance the Thai that they speak all day with my wife. I'm working and spent less time with the kids than my wife, so I decided to push forward on the English first followed by Dutch.

My problem is that Thai language is highly inefficient and causes many misunderstandings and even worse, every sentence that people speak with each other is modeled around vice versa confirmation of the relative status of the people that communicate. From the first words that kids learn in Thai they learn to speak in a ranking system. If you literally translate a conversation between Thai people it sounds ridiculous. It doesn't help the message if it's cluttered in non-essential formalities titles and having to confirm and re-confirm in every sentence who is the older and who the younger one. It also doesn't help if people have to refer to themselves as "mouse" because they are considerable younger than someone else. Thailand has a very strict caste society and that is highly reflected in the language.

I recently read some research done among bi-lingual people that speak German and English and their personality was different in either language due to the means of expression that the language offers. This made me really scared about the influence of Thai language on our kids personalities.

And there was always me thinking....am I the only one to see it this way.....NOT....there is one more negative influx related to the thai language in day to day communication...but maybe you know that as well....good post.

[fvw53]

Before my retirement I was a Dutch speaking diplomat : during the 1970ies and 1980ies I was living in China, Sweden, Germany, Hong Kong and Vietnam.

I kept Dutch as the family language because I did not want to cut them from my family of which nobody spoke a foreign language.

I raised 3 children and sent them to a French school

While playing in the street with other kids they learned all the languages of the other countries fluently.

Learning a language becomes more difficult I guess from the age of 10 when the children start to reason...

[Patsycat]

I used to date a Thai who formerly was married to a Swiss and travelled back and forth to Thailand. She had a 5 1/2 yo daughter she was raising in Switzerland who could speak to me in English but also spoke Thai , Swiss and German. They can pick up languages very easily at young age becomes more difficult as we get older. We do't learn our native language by going to school children already know how to talk in native tounge when they start school.

Should teach her Thai and Swiss and then English as she has world wide opportunities if she can speak it well. English has repalced French as the lingua franca = world language

There is no Swiss language - they either learn French, German or Italian. I guess your Thai friend's daughter was living in the German part of Switzerland who's language is more of a dialect than High German. Which they learn at school.

Myself, i moved to French speaking Switzerland when i was nine - spoke English at home, learnt French at school and playing with my friends and then did 10 years of Spanish at school.

I speak English and French fluently and can just about speak Spanish.

Funny, i met my little month old Great Niece last week and talked to her in French. Her mum is so adament that she will learn languages at an early age!! Me speaking silly baby talk in French might have just been heard!! And registered!!

It's like starting them swimming at two months old, the earlier the better!!

[MaeJoMTB]

It also doesn't help if people have to refer to themselves as "mouse" because they are considerable younger than someone else.

Mouse (noo) is reserved for young girls and women (of any age) who consider themselves 'cute'.

[banglassie]

It also doesn't help if people have to refer to themselves as "mouse" because they are considerable younger than someone else.

Mouse (noo) is reserved for young girls and women (of any age) who consider themselves 'cute'.

While it can be girls "any age who consider themselves cute" it has absolutely nothing to do with cute. Let's say a woman working for some company who has a lot of co-workers who are 5-20 years older, she is very likely to call herself "noo" to her friends there out of respect, not because she consider herself cute.

[MaeJoMTB]

It also doesn't help if people have to refer to themselves as "mouse" because they are considerable younger than someone else.

Mouse (noo) is reserved for young girls and women (of any age) who consider themselves 'cute'.

While it can be girls "any age who consider themselves cute" it has absolutely nothing to do with cute. Let's say a woman working for some company who has a lot of co-workers who are 5-20 years older, she is very likely to call herself "noo" to her friends there out of respect, not because she consider herself cute.

BS!

Edited August 23, 2015 by MaeJoMTB

[duanebigsby]

Why in the whole world (except France) is there such

a huge focus on learning English and why do so many

people travel the world teaching English ?

Tell me.

It's become the language of international diplomacy, travel, business, and tourism.

to get ahead in life financially it has become vital to learn English.;

[banglassie]

It also doesn't help if people have to refer to themselves as "mouse" because they are considerable younger than someone else.

Mouse (noo) is reserved for young girls and women (of any age) who consider themselves 'cute'.

While it can be girls "any age who consider themselves cute" it has absolutely nothing to do with cute. Let's say a woman working for some company who has a lot of co-workers who are 5-20 years older, she is very likely to call herself "noo" to her friends there out of respect, not because she consider herself cute.

BS!

You obviously don't know what you're talking about, I hear that daily @ CPB..