Chiang Rai Immigration

[boomerangutang]

Is there anywhere we farang can officially complain about this apartheid rule?

 

I know we can never vote and are essentially powerless here.  I've somewhat accepted that.

 

If we went to Tourist Police, they would probably laugh us out of the building, if any one of us went and complained about this restriction.  I've been laughed at there before, when I naively went and mentioned a party near my house which had music so loud, it rattled my windows until 3 am.  Tourist police in Chiang Rai are so determined to do as little as possible, that they get a building south of town with near zero no activity.  If they were any more out of touch, they'd be in the middle of a rice paddy in another province.

 

A farang could go to voice concern at the Imm Office, but again: It would be met by the kind of looks (from uniformed officials) which convey:  "This rule came from Bangkok.  No one ever questions a requirement handed down from Bangkok.  They're our superiors.  What they require is what they require.  Nothing can change that.  End of conversation."  Then they would ask to look at your passport, and scrutinize it with furrowed brow.

 

 

[Rotweiler]

boomer:

 

Here's my confusion.  If I go to Lao for a visit.  In returning I must report to immigration at the border.  Report to Chiang Rai Immigration at the border. 

 

Are you suggesting that I must additionally to to the Chiang Rai Immigration office and report AGAIN?

 

 

[SoilSpoil]

57 minutes ago, Rotweiler said:

boomer:

 

Here's my confusion.  If I go to Lao for a visit.  In returning I must report to immigration at the border.  Report to Chiang Rai Immigration at the border. 

 

Are you suggesting that I must additionally to to the Chiang Rai Immigration office and report AGAIN?

 

 

Actually, your landlord or wife has to. Within 24 hours. If not, your landlord or wife risk a fine up to 2,000 baht. 

[boomerangutang]

9 hours ago, Rotweiler said:

boomer: Here's my confusion.  If I go to Lao for a visit.  In returning I must report to immigration at the border.  Report to Chiang Rai Immigration at the border. Are you suggesting that I must additionally to to the Chiang Rai Immigration office and report AGAIN?

That's my understanding.  Less than a week ago, I renewed my 1 year visa. As I was about to leave, two uniformed women who work there - came to me and told me what I've been writing about; must come in to the Imm Office in person - purportedly to maintain the info that I still reside where I reside.  

For awhile, I thought it may be directed to me personally for some odd reason.  Then, a day later, I read a letter in the Post complaining about the same issue, written by a farang guy in Phuket.   Now, with a few mentions by others, it appears it's a serious rule.  Non-compliance may get a person a Bt.2000 fine.  

 

Another angle:  For people familiar with Thailand, we know that laws are administered differently in different places.  There's much subjectivity.  For example, a farang tossing a dead cig butt in certain places in Bkk, can get slapped with a Bt.2000 fine right away.   Or pee tests required, late at night, at heavily-touristed night club areas.   

 

Strictly speaking, all farang in Thailand are legally required to carry their passports with them every moment they're out and about.  Yet, that rule is v. rarely enforced.  I'm hoping this ridiculous rule about reporting (after returning to C.Rai province) will go that same route, and just get ignored by bureaucracy.

[Robinsons]

11 hours ago, boomerangutang said:

That's my understanding.  Less than a week ago, I renewed my 1 year visa. As I was about to leave, two uniformed women who work there - came to me and told me what I've been writing about; must come in to the Imm Office in person - purportedly to maintain the info that I still reside where I reside.  

For awhile, I thought it may be directed to me personally for some odd reason.  Then, a day later, I read a letter in the Post complaining about the same issue, written by a farang guy in Phuket.   Now, with a few mentions by others, it appears it's a serious rule.  Non-compliance may get a person a Bt.2000 fine.  

 

Another angle:  For people familiar with Thailand, we know that laws are administered differently in different places.  There's much subjectivity.  For example, a farang tossing a dead cig butt in certain places in Bkk, can get slapped with a Bt.2000 fine right away.   Or pee tests required, late at night, at heavily-touristed night club areas.   

 

Strictly speaking, all farang in Thailand are legally required to carry their passports with them every moment they're out and about.  Yet, that rule is v. rarely enforced.  I'm hoping this ridiculous rule about reporting (after returning to C.Rai province) will go that same route, and just get ignored by bureaucracy.

many things change to the bad for us farangs at the moment...

yesterday I have to wait for an easy 90day report at the cr io nearly 1 hour!

 

boomer,here is the phone number for the boss of cr immigrations office, super intendant pol. col. aekorn 081-8952945

at the wall in the immi office is an picture from him with the phonenumber and written above "if you have any inconvinence please let me know"

give him an call,maybe he can clear or change something...

my English isn't good enough for an call with an high ranked immi officer.

robinsons

[boomerangutang]

4 hours ago, Robinsons said:

here is the phone number for the boss of cr immigrations office, super intendant pol. col. aekorn 081-8952945

Hi, I called that number.  Aekorn answered but, when he heard me speaking in English, handed the phone to his assistant (I didn't get her name).  We spoke for about 10 minutes.  It wasn't easy because she spoke in end-to-end broken sentences, and it was not easy to get a word in edge-wise.

 

She said the reporting is required, but it can be done by email.  Within seconds she said it can be done by letter.  When I asked about email, she said it was better to do by letter ('because it's hard to confirm by email?  I don't know').   She said put a self-addressed stamped (3 baht) envelope in the letter.  I think the letter to them only needs to have your name, nationality, passport# and resident address.   She made a mention of the Thai person who you're renting from and/or is behind every farang residing in Thailand. I sidestepped that issue, because I don't have a wife and I live in a  house with yellow 'tabian ban'.  Anyhow, here's the Imm address:

 

Chiang Rai Immigration

117 Ampoe Mai Sai
Wiang Pankaw

Mae Sai, Chiang Rai, 57130

 

The spellings are probably not perfect, above.  Any corrections are appreciated.  I wrote it as I heard it.  Online, the street address mentions "Chang Wat" (elephant temple?). 

 

I ended the phone call by telling her the new enforcement of the rule is stupid. She said that's the rule.  I told her rules are made by men, and they can be changed by men.  She said even her boss, who is a colonel, doesn't have any leverage with the brass in Bangkok.  Perhaps if enough farang (and their gf's/wives) call that number and complain, .....the idiotic rule will be rescinded or diluted. 

[Robinsons]

1 hour ago, boomerangutang said:

Hi, I called that number.  Aekorn answered but, when he heard me speaking in English, handed the phone to his assistant (I didn't get her name).  We spoke for about 10 minutes.  It wasn't easy because she spoke in end-to-end broken sentences, and it was not easy to get a word in edge-wise.

 

She said the reporting is required, but it can be done by email.  Within seconds she said it can be done by letter.  When I asked about email, she said it was better to do by letter ('because it's hard to confirm by email?  I don't know').   She said put a self-addressed stamped (3 baht) envelope in the letter.  I think the letter to them only needs to have your name, nationality, passport# and resident address.   She made a mention of the Thai person who you're renting from and/or is behind every farang residing in Thailand. I sidestepped that issue, because I don't have a wife and I live in a  house with yellow 'tabian ban'.  Anyhow, here's the Imm address:

 

Chiang Rai Immigration

117 Ampoe Mai Sai
Wiang Pankaw

Mae Sai, Chiang Rai, 57130

 

The spellings are probably not perfect, above.  Any corrections are appreciated.  I wrote it as I heard it.  Online, the street address mentions "Chang Wat" (elephant temple?). 

 

I ended the phone call by telling her the new enforcement of the rule is stupid. She said that's the rule.  I told her rules are made by men, and they can be changed by men.  She said even her boss, who is a colonel, doesn't have any leverage with the brass in Bangkok.  Perhaps if enough farang (and their gf's/wives) call that number and complain, .....the idiotic rule will be rescinded or diluted. 

thanx for your info boomer!

but for sure when I travelling within Thailand and come back home,i don't go to the cr io each time with my wife.

will see than whats about the fine and how they want to handle or controlling it...

robinsons

[boomerangutang]

11 hours ago, Robinsons said:

thanx for your info boomer! but for sure when I travelling within Thailand and come back home,i don't go to the cr io each time with my wife. will see than whats about the fine and how they want to handle or controlling it...  robinsons

If you don't use your ID/passport (for example: checking in to a hotel) when traveling to another Thai province, then you're probably are ok with not doing the formal report (Imm office visit) when you get back to C.Rai.  That's my opinion, so don't take it as gospel.

I spoke to one farang who said he uses another type of ID when he checks in to a hotel in an outside province.  I assume a Thai drivers license (which I use for hotels and for plane travel within Thailand) is ok, and would probably preclude the apartheid-like checking in-person at Imm Office.

[boomerangutang]

Note:  addresses in Thailand are akin to transliteration of Thai to Roman letters.   They vary a lot.

 

You could get 5 Thai people to write an address for a particular place, and it wouldn't be surprising that you'd get the address written 5 different ways.  I mention that because: the address the woman official gave me over the phone is similar, but different than the address on web sites - for the Mae Sai Imm office.

 

 

[boomerangutang]

 

On 2/5/2018 at 9:53 AM, Rotweiler said:

boomer: Here's my confusion.  If I go to Lao for a visit.  In returning I must report to immigration at the border.  Report to Chiang Rai Immigration at the border. Are you suggesting that I must additionally to to the Chiang Rai Immigration office and report AGAIN?

I'm not an expert on this stuff, but my assumption is: if the Imm office at the border crossing is an official Imm office (rather than just an office which rubber stamps people coming and going), then you're probably ok.  I doubt the office at the border crossing is official - in this context.

 

[sceadugenga]

I had what must be a world record for a 90 day report today.
Arrived 8.45, parked by door, did 90 day, found and used toilet, back in car at 8.55.


Sent from my iPad using Thaivisa Connect

[boomerangutang]

I woke up this morning (yes, I do that occasionally) and realized I didn't report to Imm - that I had crossed over to Tachilek (and returned to Mai Sai) six days ago.  Whoa.  Saturday (today) C.Rai Imm is probably closed.  Sunday certainly (despite Sunday being a Christian day-off).  So, do I be a good farang and dutifully show up Monday to formally inform Imm that I live at the same house I've resided at for 19 years?  I'm tempted to slough it off, and hope that Imm isn't worried about the ridiculous rule, ....similar to how it doesn't enforce other ridiculous rules.    

 

Police don't enforce rules, but that's a different story.  Police can sit at a busy intersection and watch 50 cars and trucks per minute go speeding through red lights, but..... mai pen rai.

 

When I went to C.Rai Imm 2 mondays ago, there weren't any 'take a number' numbers.  I was told they were full and couldn't handle any more people, period.  It was 11 am.   So, if I go this Monday, will I get the same non-reception, or will it only take 2 or 3 hours - to formally inform them that yes, I still reside in the same house I've resided in for 19 years.   

 

Don't tell anyone.  Thanks.

[frodo77]

For the annual retirement extension, here in Chonburi you can do it up to one month before its due. Anyone know about CR? Thanks.

[Robinsons]

16 hours ago, frodo77 said:

For the annual retirement extension, here in Chonburi you can do it up to one month before its due. Anyone know about CR? Thanks.

Same here in CR!

[frodo77]

Can someone please confirm that you do your retirement renewal on Mondays and Wednesdays at CR Immigration? Also do you get your passport back at the same time, as in Chonburi you had to return the next day to pick up your passport. Thanks.

[OneZero]

34 minutes ago, frodo77 said:

Can someone please confirm that you do your retirement renewal on Mondays and Wednesdays at CR Immigration? Also do you get your passport back at the same time, as in Chonburi you had to return the next day to pick up your passport. Thanks.

Unless it has recently changed...Yes, Monday & Wednesday.  You get your passport back because you stay until it's complete; the lines are not long like could be possible in Jomtien or Chiang Mai. 

 

Jomtien does it's customers a favor by eliminating a potential long wait, by just taking your passport without a wait & you pick it up next day all complete.  Chiang Mai could not be bothered to come to the realization that there are ways to eliminate potential long waiting times (for those that find it convenient to pick up the next day).

 

Jomtien 

[frodo77]

Well after reading all the positive comments, I was looking forward to renewing my retirement visa this morning. I was told that I have to have been here for 90 days before I can do it. Apart from the young girl where you get your ticket number, the 2 ladies next to her were very adamant about this rule and not at all friendly. I was very polite and smartly dressed. This appears to be a local rule. So far I am not impressed with this office. Now I have to return to Chonburi at extra expense just because some local official has made this rule.

[OneZero]

4 hours ago, frodo77 said:

Well after reading all the positive comments, I was looking forward to renewing my retirement visa this morning. I was told that I have to have been here for 90 days before I can do it. Apart from the young girl where you get your ticket number, the 2 ladies next to her were very adamant about this rule and not at all friendly. I was very polite and smartly dressed. This appears to be a local rule. So far I am not impressed with this office. Now I have to return to Chonburi at extra expense just because some local official has made this rule.

I doubt very much that it was "some local official has made this rule".    So in this case , I would suggest reserving your anger for head office Immigration bureaucrats, unless you have evidence of local lack of incentive to improve poor quality administrative performance for customers (as has seemed to exist in Chiang Mai for years).

 

For years I have found it aggravating, while on holiday in another province, to have to return to "Home Province" to do such administrative headaches.  People wanting to buy used vehicles advertised in another province may also have paperwork headaches if all the "T"s are not crossed correctly and the seller doesn't accompany the buyer to the Transport Office.

 

Speculation:  There could be a fair number of folks hoping to avoid the potential long waits at the notoriously potentially poor service Immigration Offices (Hint again: Chiang Mai) who hope to get things done in Chiang Rai while on a road trip (that may have been disguised to not appear to be solely a road trip).  Just speculation (and my suspicious nature) of course.  On the other hand, perhaps just typical head office bureaucratic requirements that ignore the convenience of customers.

Edited April 4, 2018 by OneZero
clarification

[frodo77]

I posted about this on the main forum. Here is ubonjoe's reply, who is very knowledgeable. -

There is no rule that states you have to be in the province where you are applying for 90 days.

Was that the office in the city or the one in Mae Sai? Perhaps try at the other office.

[OneZero]

Give it a try at the other office.  Let us know what happens. 

We all want to know the truth & what shenanigans may be occurring.  I know there are restrictions against just using any province convenient to do a retirement renewal.  I have had to contend with that myself.  But I have not heard of a full 90 day wait to evidence / prove it's a sincere change of province. 

Let us know what you find out.

 

Edited April 5, 2018 by OneZero

[frodo77]

After doing my retirement renewal in Chonburi on Thursday, picked up my passport yesterday and flew into Chiang Rai last night. Went this afternoon to report my change of address with my Thai partner. We are staying in a 2 -bedroom house that my partner has bought. Ticket counter said it was full. Spoke with ticket lady, and asked about 90 day reporting. She was insistent that you have to be in the province for 90 days. I told her that Chonburi told me that I have to do my next 90 days report where I am residing and that they will not do it, so what should I do? She said do it online. I told her I cannot do it online since I entered Thailand in 2012 and so I am not in the system. She then referred us to "boss" lady. She wanted to know the reason why I had moved here. When that was explained, she then put me in the system as living here and told me to come back in June to do my 90 day report. Very nice lady and so all went well finally.

[Robinsons]

On ‎2‎/‎6‎/‎2018 at 6:33 AM, Robinsons said:

many things change to the bad for us farangs at the moment...

yesterday I have to wait for an easy 90day report at the cr io nearly 1 hour!

 

boomer,here is the phone number for the boss of cr immigrations office, super intendant pol. col. aekorn 081-8952945

at the wall in the immi office is an picture from him with the phonenumber and written above "if you have any inconvinence please let me know"

give him an call,maybe he can clear or change something...

my English isn't good enough for an call with an high ranked immi officer.

robinsons

today again pain in the ass for my 90 day report at the cr city immigration office...

this time have to wait more as 2 hours!!!

directly after lunchtime of io I have taked my number and after long time waiting I asked at 3 different times 3 different officers why they not open the separate 90 day counter,as before.

answer: many people,have to wait...

at last and after more as 2 hours I asked the lady officer with the most stripes on the uniform,i think she was the boss of all officers in the office.

she looked with big eyes to my face,told me oh sorry and opened directly the 90 day counter.

many other people jumped to the 90day counter too...

five minutes later my 90 day report finished and out of the office.

sorry for my poor English.

robinsons

 

[Robinsons]

On ‎5‎/‎7‎/‎2018 at 5:33 PM, Robinsons said:

today again pain in the ass for my 90 day report at the cr city immigration office...

this time have to wait more as 2 hours!!!

directly after lunchtime of io I have taked my number and after long time waiting I asked at 3 different times 3 different officers why they not open the separate 90 day counter,as before.

answer: many people,have to wait...

at last and after more as 2 hours I asked the lady officer with the most stripes on the uniform,i think she was the boss of all officers in the office.

she looked with big eyes to my face,told me oh sorry and opened directly the 90 day counter.

many other people jumped to the 90day counter too...

five minutes later my 90 day report finished and out of the office.

sorry for my poor English.

robinsons

 

next time I will try the 90 day online reporting.

has anybody experience with the 90 day reporting online service?

is it working correct?

robinsons

[sceadugenga]

I had a completely painless 90 day report today, parked near the door, actually sat down for a few minutes before realising they had a officer doing 90 days exclusively.

5 minutes.

 

[OneZero]

7 hours ago, sceadugenga said:

I had a completely painless 90 day report today, parked near the door, actually sat down for a few minutes before realising they had a officer doing 90 days exclusively.

5 minutes.

 

I took a number upon entering & sat down for 45 minutes before I realized that there were people without numbers (the number clock was not moving) proceeding to see this one officer.  After watching this for awhile I realized she was doing 90 day reports.  45 minutes wasted not a big deal & I had a coffee.

But I thought to myself that they should have put some sort of notice up alerting folks to this.  Also, probably should also the have  separate numbers for the 90 day report (vs all other business) to avoid potential conflict over who gets served next. 

Overall I'm very happy with the service at CR Immigration because I've seen what Chiang Mai Immiration is like.  The following links address Chiang mai Immigration, not CR Immigration:

The first link is a post of someone arriving at 0200 (2 am) to ensure they could accomplish their visa renewal that day.  The second link I have also copied what the poster wrote about Chiang mai Immigration.

 

 

https://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/1036105-cost-of-visa-agents/?page=3&tab=comments#comment-12945981

 

Simoh asked:

My wife asked me last night why she couldn't represent herself to Immigration as an agent and act on my behalf, much in the same way that my existing established agent does. I didn't have a good answer for her other than she didn't have any contacts at Immigration, although I reckon that developing them shouldn't be difficult. The benefits potentially are reduced fees and improved turnaround, over and above a farang walk-in. Thoughts?

Nancy had a good description of the CM Immigration situation:

Nancy replied:

Your wife can definitely "represent" you at Immigration and for some matters she wouldn't even need a Power of Attorney document (with tax stamps) that is required of visa agents.  For example, I often submit 90 day reports for my husband at Immigration at the same time I submit mine, but it is one of the Immigration matters that one doesn't have to do in person.

 

However, if your wife starts to handle immigration matters for others besides you, she'll find herself in the same position as others I've talked with.  She'll be called into Immigration for a "discussion".  One travel agent in our neighborhood was called in thought she was going to be told to stop doing what she was doing.  Instead, she was told what she was expected to submit to Immigration for each service: 3000 baht for a one year visa extension, 10,000 baht for a visa conversion, 300 baht for a 90 day report, etc.  When she protested that she didn't charge that much for her services, she was told to raise her fees.  In exchange, she could use the special visa-agent desk on the second floor and not have to wait in the queue before dawn.  A restaurant owner I know who sometimes helps her regular elderly expat customers with visa matters had the same type of meeting.  

 

OK, did they record these meetings?  Did they get anything in writing?  Of course not.  Are they corrupt?  No, they're just trying to help their customers.  Who is the corrupt one here?  

 

All this "evidence" has been submitted and reported to the appropriate channels.  As with the editor of CityLife and her planned rally about the air quality, when the reports went up the ladder what happened?  They chose to punish the messenger.  This is old news from 2016-2017 and I came very close to leaving Thailand because of it.  

 

Things have moderately improved at Immigration, but the "pricing structure" remains.  I'm no longer in a leadership position at CM Expats Club, all I do is assist some elderly expats with health issues from time-to-time, so my mandate is less clear.  I stay away from Immigration now and merely observe from afar, mainly by monitoring this forum. 

 

I'm not "anti-visa agents".  They serve a valuable purpose and can be very helpful for some people.  I'm anti-corruption.i.e. the way that the previous head of CM Immigration structured the office to deliberately make it difficult to navigate to drive customers to using visa agents. 

Edited May 16, 2018 by OneZero

[frodo77]

19 hours ago, sceadugenga said:

I had a completely painless 90 day report today, parked near the door, actually sat down for a few minutes before realising they had a officer doing 90 days exclusively.

5 minutes.

 

I am due for 90 day report in June. So how does it work? How do you know which officer is doing the 90 day reports? No numbers for it, so how do you know when its your turn? Seems rather confusing.

[sceadugenga]

There's a sign on the counter, yesterday it was the last officer as you come in the door with the counter to your left.

I took a number and she asked me for it.

[OneZero]

1 hour ago, sceadugenga said:

There's a sign on the counter, yesterday it was the last officer as you come in the door with the counter to your left.

I took a number and she asked me for it.

OK, glad they have a notice for the 90 day desk now.  My experience where it was not noticable (at least to me at the time) was dated 12March, but I failed to mention that in my post above & afterwards I was not able to get back into "edit" to clarify my post.  

[frodo77]

20 hours ago, sceadugenga said:

There's a sign on the counter, yesterday it was the last officer as you come in the door with the counter to your left.

I took a number and she asked me for it.

Just one more question. Did you take a number from the main one, or is there a separate place for 90 day numbers? Thanks.

[sceadugenga]

I took one from the main pile.