Stunned Thaksin Followers Mull Options

[Siripon]

Thaksin inherited the Palang Thamma party from Jamlong Srimuang,(later a PAD leader), they were a collection of middle-class Bangkokians self- righteous as their name implies, but they were almost extinct by the mid 1990s.

So Thaksin formed TRT, of the original founders many were ex-employees from AIS, for example Purachai, the moral crusader. Some were from the October generation who had to flee to the jungle after the right wing massacres such as Promin and Prapat. A few were big businessmen.

A curious mixture of left and right. The ideology espoused was' think anew, do anew,' under a dynamic, proactive business leader,(no need to be corrupt because rich already), coupled with researchers to find out what the grassroots wanted. A party for the people.

Economically it was a twin track policy, exports and boost the local economy.

But Thaksin coudn't wait, rather than develop the party gradually, with his massive war chest

he bought up all the smaller, fiefdom parties whoseonly loyalty was to their leaders.

Quantity not quality became the name of the game, with his power becoming absolute Thaksin and his inner group of cronies and clans took their turns at the trough, all the time citing the mantra of the largest number of votes at the election, nothing else mattered.

Disgusted by Thaksin's behaviour, over half the original number of founders had left by this time- in just 7 years.

But there is one party that has always maintained an ideology where promotion, at least until recently was based on merit, namely The Democrats.

They can rightly be accused of being behind the times, boring and somewhat staid,but with the occasional exception of people such as Suthep they have run an honest ship. Every MP has to contribute 10% of his salary to the party.

From the remains of TRT the factions will rise again,probably in different parties newly formed,

if the new constitution can effectively control corruption it will be interesting to see policy platforms being debated, real attempts to develop the provinces with improved education and well directed investment rather than blatant populist policies.

One good aspect of this whole Thaksin fiasco has been the real lesson in politics it has been for the people. I heard one Thai recently say,' We thought democracy was the right way but what happens if in a group of 50 voters,49 are ignorant, only one is wise and the leader says we must kill all Aids patients because by breathing the same air we will get Aids too. The ignorant agree and of course vote with the leader. Now this isn't right but it's democracy!'

The awareness of transparency being a vital part of democracy is something I hope the Thai public is taking to heart.

[Siripon]

I dont think we've seen the last of TRT or Thaskin - lad has more lives than a cat.

I remember a few months ago how you said Thaksin was being very clever what with dissolving Parliament and how he would come back, win the election and crush the PAD.

Err, what happened Brit? or is this all part of his plan?

[Mosha]

Wasn't Thaksin being investigated for corruption before he first came to power? I'm sure that was in the British newspapers, and that he was just weeks away from being arrested at the time of his election victory.

[Cool Water Palace]

"Many TRT figures now in London"

So says the subheading of the thread, but the content does not really deal with this, so this post may be in line with the original intention, but not with the content.

What I want to say, and I hope is considered relevant, is:

All these people on London? I don't want at all to pursue the immigration issue - a red herring in my view. But, unless a post 'junta' (?) government is again TRT, will relations between UK and Thailand be a bit strained, especially if plotting continues after there may be common support for developments after appointment of a PM? But then all sorts have plotted in exile in London (eg Marx/Engels, and African liberation movements).

[Rinrada]

Stunned Thaksin followers mull options

BANGKOK: -- Former Thai Rak Thai MPs have admitted that it is likely the party was doomed after the government was overthrown.

Party leader and deposed PM Thaksin Shinawatra and many of its key figures are now in London.

and a bit of inside info tell me that they all meet up and take lunch together at Pims Thai Food snack back in Chapel Market which is between Islingtons Upper Street and Pentonville rd.(near the new mall..nice coffee bars)

There is a handy Woolworths nearby and next to the stall an Albanian refugee sells them fake Lolexes and YSL "real" leather belts...just like home

From further info they then all retire to the local pub (next to Waitrose...but mai phut name) to sceme and plot their glorius return.

Pims Thai Food snack bar is a market takeaway so unlikely they would eat there. More probably in Islington they would eat at the Thai Square which could accommodate a large entourage, or alternatively the Rabeing Thai restaurant or the Isarn or the Tuk Tuk...all on Islington Upper Street. As for drinking, thats obvious: Filthy McNasty's on nearby Amwell Street.

Have you seen the price of a COW Pat in Thai square.....

These guys are/will now be on their uppers and Pims (name changed to protect the innocent)is very good with refugees...

Also as far as a refreshment is concerned the only local joint to flog a bottle or 2 of Sing..T/land fav beer etc is the the local wetherforks boozer (special price on Mondays )and just right for TIT lads.

The Sunshine Boys Government in exile might have owned all of the breweries-airlines-telephone companies in LOS last week but now they gotta hoof it like all the other claiments and cut their cloth etc...wee guy on the market could rustle up a nice tin flute...Mai Peng...makes you look just like a millionaire.....

[thaimeup]

How does a snake without a head move forward, unless the CEO consults those trusted astrology with black magic to bringing his life back.

Chop a snake's head off and it will wiggle a bit while it can no longer bite anyone.

Surely it must be time now that the ex Bangkok governor, celebrity cook and Taksin lover 'Samak' got his final five minutes of fame. How about... his head on a silver plate, an apple in his mouth and a light garnish to top it of? Let the feast begin.

Penzman, That was spot on! Samak never looked so good!!!

[j_cheung]

I dont think we've seen the last of TRT or Thaskin - lad has more lives than a cat.

I remember a few months ago how you said Thaksin was being very clever what with dissolving Parliament and how he would come back, win the election and crush the PAD.

Err, what happened Brit? or is this all part of his plan?

Possibly never in any formal leadership role ... but as a retired "advisor" (or hidden kingpin) of sorts. He's the Richard Milhouse Nixon of Thailand

[fruittbatt]

Thaksin inherited the Palang Thamma party from Jamlong Srimuang,(later a PAD leader), they were a collection of middle-class Bangkokians self- righteous as their name implies, but they were almost extinct by the mid 1990s.

So Thaksin formed TRT, of the original founders many were ex-employees from AIS, for example Purachai, the moral crusader. Some were from the October generation who had to flee to the jungle after the right wing massacres such as Promin and Prapat. A few were big businessmen.

A curious mixture of left and right. The ideology espoused was' think anew, do anew,' under a dynamic, proactive business leader,(no need to be corrupt because rich already), coupled with researchers to find out what the grassroots wanted. A party for the people.

Economically it was a twin track policy, exports and boost the local economy.

But Thaksin coudn't wait, rather than develop the party gradually, with his massive war chest

he bought up all the smaller, fiefdom parties whoseonly loyalty was to their leaders.

Quantity not quality became the name of the game, with his power becoming absolute Thaksin and his inner group of cronies and clans took their turns at the trough, all the time citing the mantra of the largest number of votes at the election, nothing else mattered.

Disgusted by Thaksin's behaviour, over half the original number of founders had left by this time- in just 7 years.

But there is one party that has always maintained an ideology where promotion, at least until recently was based on merit, namely The Democrats.

They can rightly be accused of being behind the times, boring and somewhat staid,but with the occasional exception of people such as Suthep they have run an honest ship. Every MP has to contribute 10% of his salary to the party.

From the remains of TRT the factions will rise again,probably in different parties newly formed,

if the new constitution can effectively control corruption it will be interesting to see policy platforms being debated, real attempts to develop the provinces with improved education and well directed investment rather than blatant populist policies.

One good aspect of this whole Thaksin fiasco has been the real lesson in politics it has been for the people. I heard one Thai recently say,' We thought democracy was the right way but what happens if in a group of 50 voters,49 are ignorant, only one is wise and the leader says we must kill all Aids patients because by breathing the same air we will get Aids too. The ignorant agree and of course vote with the leader. Now this isn't right but it's democracy!'

The awareness of transparency being a vital part of democracy is something I hope the Thai public is taking to heart.

Thanks for a comprehensive recent history of the party system in Thailand.

I have read (Ockey:Making Democracy) that one of the greatest historical obstacles to democratic representation has been the means by which cabinet posts are allocated: based on the number of MPs a prospective Minister can "deliver" who are loyal to the dominant party in a coalition government. Given the vast (& purchased) TRT majority in the last (oligarchic) gov't this type of allocation was evidently not at issue. ( Cabinet posts were awarded much more directly to Thaksin's most useful personal supporters).

With the TRT in tatters it is seems quite likely that any future government will be a coalition and therefore open to the same potentially corrupt & democratically-self defeating system of allocating Ministries. What are your thoughts about this?

[Jai Dee]

Ousted PM's wife leaves for London

The wife of deposed Prime Minister Thaksin Shinawatra, Pojaman, left Bangkok early Monday to join her husband in London as the nation's new military leaders launched graft probes against him, the chief of immigration said.

"She has left with two others, her housekeeper and a close friend, at 1:30 am on Thai Airways Flight 910" to London's Heathrow airport," Lieutenant General Suwat Thamrongsrisakul told AFP.

Pojaman is widely believed to have exerted great influence over her husband's activities. Much of the billionaire politician's wealth is held by her and their three children.

Thaksin was in New York for the UN General Assembly when the military seized power during the night of September 19. He then went to London, where he maintains a residence and where one of his daughters is studying.

His two other children are believed to be in Thailand.

The new ruling junta has moved quickly to open investigations into alleged corruption by Thaksin's government and have threatened to seize the assets of anyone found guilty of wrongdoing.

Source: The Nation - 25 September 2006

[brahmburgers]

Ousted PM's wife leaves for London

The wife of deposed Prime Minister Thaksin Shinawatra, Pojaman, left Bangkok early Monday to join her husband in London as the nation's new military leaders launched graft probes against him, the chief of immigration said.

"She has left with two others, her housekeeper and a close friend, at 1:30 am on Thai Airways Flight 910" to London's Heathrow airport," Lieutenant General Suwat Thamrongsrisakul told AFP.

Pojaman is widely believed to have exerted great influence over her husband's activities. Much of the billionaire politician's wealth is held by her and their three children.

Thaksin was in New York for the UN General Assembly when the military seized power during the night of September 19. He then went to London, where he maintains a residence and where one of his daughters is studying.

His two other children are believed to be in Thailand.

The new ruling junta has moved quickly to open investigations into alleged corruption by Thaksin's government and have threatened to seize the assets of anyone found guilty of wrongdoing.

Source: The Nation - 25 September 2006

'a day late and a dollar short' should be the title of the upcoming investigations. Thaksin and his family have dodged repercussions of their insatiable greed thus far, and will continue to do so. If Reagan was the 'teflon president' Thaksin is the 'oil on grease PM.'

[Tony Clifton]

Thaksin will tell his future this afternoon : TRT

Deposed Prime Minister Thaksin Shinawatra will reveal decision on his political future Tuesday afternoon, Thai Rak Thai's deputy spokesman Chatuporn Prompan said.

Thaksin who is now in London will send his message today to party members about his political future (NONE!) and the party's directions. (He may want to watch a few documentaries about The Titanic's wreck sitting at the bottom of the sea and the impossibility of bringing the boat back to the surface ever.) The party will give a press briefing to tell the public about the decision.

Thaksin was ousted last month when the military seized power from his government while he was in New York to attend UN General Assembly.

He then travelled to London where his family has an apartment to live with his daughter.

Thaksin's message came two days after Gen Surayud Jalanont was appointed as the prime minister of an interim government.

The Nation

The title left me thinking he now has his own crystal ball, sheep guts and tarot cards.

Edited October 3, 2006 by Tony Clifton

[seri thai]

Thaksin inherited the Palang Thamma party from Jamlong Srimuang,(later a PAD leader), they were a collection of middle-class Bangkokians self- righteous as their name implies, but they were almost extinct by the mid 1990s.

So Thaksin formed TRT, of the original founders many were ex-employees from AIS, for example Purachai, the moral crusader. Some were from the October generation who had to flee to the jungle after the right wing massacres such as Promin and Prapat. A few were big businessmen.

A curious mixture of left and right. The ideology espoused was' think anew, do anew,' under a dynamic, proactive business leader,(no need to be corrupt because rich already), coupled with researchers to find out what the grassroots wanted. A party for the people.

Economically it was a twin track policy, exports and boost the local economy.

But Thaksin coudn't wait, rather than develop the party gradually, with his massive war chest

he bought up all the smaller, fiefdom parties whoseonly loyalty was to their leaders.

Quantity not quality became the name of the game, with his power becoming absolute Thaksin and his inner group of cronies and clans took their turns at the trough, all the time citing the mantra of the largest number of votes at the election, nothing else mattered.

Disgusted by Thaksin's behaviour, over half the original number of founders had left by this time- in just 7 years.

But there is one party that has always maintained an ideology where promotion, at least until recently was based on merit, namely The Democrats.

"They can rightly be accused of being behind the times, boring and somewhat staid,but with the occasional exception of people such as Suthep they have run an honest ship. Every MP has to contribute 10% of his salary to the party.

From the remains of TRT the factions will rise again,probably in different parties newly formed,

if the new constitution can effectively control corruption it will be interesting to see policy platforms being debated, real attempts to develop the provinces with improved education and well directed investment rather than blatant populist policies.

One good aspect of this whole Thaksin fiasco has been the real lesson in politics it has been for the people. I heard one Thai recently say,' We thought democracy was the right way but what happens if in a group of 50 voters,49 are ignorant, only one is wise and the leader says we must kill all Aids patients because by breathing the same air we will get Aids too. The ignorant agree and of course vote with the leader. Now this isn't right but it's democracy!'

The awareness of transparency being a vital part of democracy is something I hope the Thai public is taking to heart.

Succinctly put Siripon!

"Not enough tits for the hogs" (Abraham Lincoln)

Tammany Hall politics

Rats leaving sinking ships....

The fact they all joined TRT was because if they didn't their snouts would be pushed out-now they're off and seeking the next free feed..

It's the unadulterated young democracy the US had 80-150 years ago. Lets hope it doesn't evolve into the one the US has now!

This is why the US has protested against anything that upsets the evolution. They see it as disobedience to the"Prime Directive"(Gene Rodenberry!)

[seri thai]

Ousted PM's wife leaves for London

The wife of deposed Prime Minister Thaksin Shinawatra, Pojaman, left Bangkok early Monday to join her husband in London as the nation's new military leaders launched graft probes against him, the chief of immigration said.

"She has left with two others, her housekeeper and a close friend, at 1:30 am on Thai Airways Flight 910" to London's Heathrow airport," Lieutenant General Suwat Thamrongsrisakul told AFP.

Pojaman is widely believed to have exerted great influence over her husband's activities. Much of the billionaire politician's wealth is held by her and their three children.

Thaksin was in New York for the UN General Assembly when the military seized power during the night of September 19. He then went to London, where he maintains a residence and where one of his daughters is studying.

His two other children are believed to be in Thailand.

The new ruling junta has moved quickly to open investigations into alleged corruption by Thaksin's government and have threatened to seize the assets of anyone found guilty of wrongdoing.

Source: The Nation - 25 September 2006

Ooh Er....NO MONEY, NO HONEY!!

[TokyoT]

So what are the rules governing running in the elections in the UK. Mr. Blair is in the process of hanging up his hat.

If so many of the boys of the TRT are in the UK maybe they will simply change hats and the TRT will become the TRUK?

[dr_Pat_Pong]

Wasn't Thaksin being investigated for corruption before he first came to power? I'm sure that was in the British newspapers, and that he was just weeks away from being arrested at the time of his election victory.

He was nearly scrubbed from politics because of ' irregularities ' with his financial declarations as an MP so ...............

[IMA_FARANG]

This comment seems, to me, to be part of the problem of democracy in Thailand - the notion that one can just simply join another party, because its more popular.

Where are the ideologies, the policies, the manifesto? Are political parties in Thailand nothing more "fan clubs" for well-known figures?

. . . . .

Former Bangkok MP Mongkol Kimsoonjan said that Thai Rak Thai might be disbanded even if Thaksin returned to Thailand.

Mongkol is a member of Sudarat Keyuraphan's faction. He believes Sudarat may leave politics, while other party Thai Rak Thai members in different factions might form a new political party.

"For me, if there are two choices, I may choose the Democrat Party because it is more popular than others in Bangkok," he said.

. . . . .

--The Nation 2006-09-23

Where are the ideologies, the policies, the manifesto? Are political parties in Thailand nothing more "fan clubs" for well-known figures?

Of course they are! Is it reallyany different in other "more advanced" democracies in the west? I'm not sure about the politics in the U.K., but in the U.S. much of the political parties are little more than window dressing for popularity contests. Forget the manifesto, the ideology. All that is just a cover for political "heroes" to hide behind. George Bush (or Hillary Clinton) are just examples that come to mind.

I think the Thai people have a very good practical knowledge of how politcs really works. I remember some years ago when a village headman upcountry advertised in the local newspaper that he would sell the votes of his village to the highest bidder. He was roundly criticized in newspaper articles about his "lack of understanding" of democracy. His reply was that he expected to have whoever bought his vote would never keep the promises they made anyhow. He said that was what politicians did. he was simply trying to get the best possible price for his village's votes. They could use the money to improve their village school or hospital.

Seems to me he had a very good idea of what Thai politics really was about.

Edited October 3, 2006 by IMA_FARANG