Koh Tao murder trial reconvenes in Koh Samui

[Madaussie]

It's not my version, it's the version of the two defendants and the two witnesses that testified.

As for criminals keeping incriminating evidence in their homes... have you seen the news lately?

The defendants also agreed that broken glass was used as murder weapon, though no glass was found at or near the crime scene. When a person is being tortured, they'll say any damn thing. BTW, why have we heard nearly nothing in the prosecutions' presentations about wounds to victims or weapons used? It couldn't be because RTP and prosecution are hiding things could it? or maybe because Thai forensics completely mis-read (intentionally or unwittingly) the items they're supposedly trained to diagnose. It will be interesting when Ms Pontip takes the stand. Even more interesting if any British forensic findings are submitted to the proceedings.

Thanks for bringing up the so called murder weapon.

Not long after the murders occurred and the B2 were arrested, one of the posters from the "other" side tried to convince me that it was indeed possible that the hoe made the sharp cuts that were inflicted on DM. That discussion finished along the lines that it will be proven conclusively in court.

However, I didn't read anywhere where any particular attention was focused on whether the hoe was in fact the murder weapon used on DM (it could possibly have been on HW). Also, there were no reports of any other weapons that could have inflicted the wounds on DM. I'm just wondering if whether the defence decided that it was unnecessary to pursue this as the hoe does not belong to the B2 so it doesn't do anything to either the prosecution or defences' case. Also, it was unnecessary to focus on possible shark-toothed rings as once again, it would not bolster the defence's case as it is the B2 that are on trial and not some others.

The murder weapons according to the Roti seller included a wine bottle. So if they obtained autopsy reports then fragments may well remain. Does anyone know if the mention of a wine bottle was made in court. I haven't seen it from the reports I read?

I think David's injuries could well have been made with a short sharp instrument similar to a reconstruction that was made in this bar. A few weeks after the murder and posted on-line.

[AleG]

A claim supported by two witnesses, friends of the defendants, that testified in court of receiving the phone from them and discarding it where it was subsequently found. You know, like normal, low income people would do with an expensive phone.

You are correct in this post AleG but if you don't mind I would like to expand on this a bit more.

It was reported early on by the Media, somewhere around October 7th I think, that a Senior Official "Sorayuth Suthassanachinda" went on Channel 3 News and tried to explain exactly how they found David Millers Mobile Phone. Linking his name to David Millers Mobile Phone on Google should provide this from the Media.

Anyway, it is alleged by this Media Report that he said they knew very early on that David Millers Mobile phone was missing from his person from information gained from David's friends and family but did not make this public knowledge. I suppose in an attempt to catch the culprit(s) with it Red Handed.

It was also alleged then that after the accused were arrested and confessed, they asked them about this missing phone. One of the accused (which I believe it was Win) had told them they left this with a friend. So it was this confession that led the Police to his friend, who had later testified in court that he had discarded it and threw it away behind his living quarters.

His living quarters was a camp shared by many Migrant Workers with 3 or 4 workers to a room. The reason given by this friend was that he became suspicious as the the Origins of this Mobile Phone. It was later reported that this Mobile Phone was smashed up before it was discarded. To my knowledge there was never a reason given as to why this was given to a friend, or even when and why this friend became suspicious of this phone and when exactly he discarded it.

What is alleged that after the 2 accused recanted their guilty plea they said they had found this Mobile Phone on the beach that night. So since the accused already admitted to having this Mobile Phone, and giving it to a friend, who also admitted this and showed the police where he put it, then their would be no need for doing any Finger Printing or taking DNA, since it would only tell them what they already know.

As to this Mobile Phone being David Millers I find it surprising that they could not link it with just a Bill of Sale or a Warranty Card that David must have someplace, and match that to the Serial Number of the discovered Mobile Phone. But perhaps they couldn't find this on the smashed up phone, or the required documents from David's family or friends. I don't know.

So I am not sure also if a sworn Testimony in court from a high ranking police officer who got verbal confirmation from the SIM Card is enough either. I suppose that is up to the courts to decide. The Defense will have there chance next week to make their case and perhaps then they will clear this all up.

It would be interesting to know why their friends thought the phone was suspicious to the point of taking the actions they did.

However it's my understanding that their testimony was taken in October because the court thought it better to not wait until the trial began, since they were at risk of going back to Myanmar and be unavailable later, so it's quite possible that has already happened.

[Patsycat]

So sad to see pics of her enjoying her hols. Such a pretty girl.

[Madaussie]

The British Embassy Police Liason is certainly aware that UK authorities do not provide any assistance in death penalty cases, Embassy staff are held accountable and that would definitely be a major cock up on that employees record. It's why RTP don't have any email corespondents or documents to support their claim that the IMEI was David's. I fear much like the majority of the evidence, Police believed a simple official statement from an officer would suffice.

They would have had the:

Serial Number

The IMEI Number

First unbrick date

Last Unbrick Date

The Product Version

Initial Activation Policy ID

The Service provider

Mac Address

Bluetooth address

Model details

They could find the owner through the billing details as well when it logged into a Thai network if it was a foreign phone. they just ask CAT etc. Whoever it was roaming on. Plenty enough to ascertain its identity I am sure.

[seahorse]

Still no one but you and your "friend on Samui" have made any mention at all of an "Ace card." You say it's because the prosecution isn't reporting outside the court-room and any and all media sources have lost interest. A rather detailed explanation, you give a lot of those, shape the whole reality within a sentence or two, present it as fact when it's all verbiage with no confirmation elsewhere, no evidence at all.

When you suddenly start posting non-stop about this case after joining up, and aside from such an intense interest make categorical statements like "I expect the RTP will have done due diligence" it's hard not to conclude you are NOT just a disinterested observer.

95% of the people on these KT murder threads have a strong position on the case and the other 5% are liars.

Is the "Ace card" the judges?

[GOLDBUGGY]

A claim supported by two witnesses, friends of the defendants, that testified in court of receiving the phone from them and discarding it where it was subsequently found. You know, like normal, low income people would do with an expensive phone.

You are correct in this post AleG but if you don't mind I would like to expand on this a bit more.

It was reported early on by the Media, somewhere around October 7th I think, that a Senior Official "Sorayuth Suthassanachinda" went on Channel 3 News and tried to explain exactly how they found David Millers Mobile Phone. Linking his name to David Millers Mobile Phone on Google should provide this from the Media.

Anyway, it is alleged by this Media Report that he said they knew very early on that David Millers Mobile phone was missing from his person from information gained from David's friends and family but did not make this public knowledge. I suppose in an attempt to catch the culprit(s) with it Red Handed.

It was also alleged then that after the accused were arrested and confessed, they asked them about this missing phone. One of the accused (which I believe it was Win) had told them they left this with a friend. So it was this confession that led the Police to his friend, who had later testified in court that he had discarded it and threw it away behind his living quarters.

His living quarters was a camp shared by many Migrant Workers with 3 or 4 workers to a room. The reason given by this friend was that he became suspicious as the the Origins of this Mobile Phone. It was later reported that this Mobile Phone was smashed up before it was discarded. To my knowledge there was never a reason given as to why this was given to a friend, or even when and why this friend became suspicious of this phone and when exactly he discarded it.

What is alleged that after the 2 accused recanted their guilty plea they said they had found this Mobile Phone on the beach that night. So since the accused already admitted to having this Mobile Phone, and giving it to a friend, who also admitted this and showed the police where he put it, then their would be no need for doing any Finger Printing or taking DNA, since it would only tell them what they already know.

As to this Mobile Phone being David Millers I find it surprising that they could not link it with just a Bill of Sale or a Warranty Card that David must have someplace, and match that to the Serial Number of the discovered Mobile Phone. But perhaps they couldn't find this on the smashed up phone, or the required documents from David's family or friends. I don't know.

So I am not sure also if a sworn Testimony in court from a high ranking police officer who got verbal confirmation from the SIM Card is enough either. I suppose that is up to the courts to decide. The Defense will have there chance next week to make their case and perhaps then they will clear this all up.

It would be interesting to know why their friends thought the phone was suspicious to the point of taking the actions they did.

However it's my understanding that their testimony was taken in October because the court thought it better to not wait until the trial began, since they were at risk of going back to Myanmar and be unavailable later, so it's quite possible that has already happened.

Right again AleG. I see it as though this did not make sense to them at that time to keep the witness here this long when they can get a sworn testimony in court when they did. But the Defense may differ as they really didn't have time to prepare for this testimony either. Although I am not sure that would make a difference as the accused have not changes their story (that I know of anyway) in not giving the phone to a friend, nor the friend denying this either. .

I think we could both get Tarred and Feather here if we speculated on when and why the friend became suspicious and discarded this mobile phone they way he did, but it is pretty obvious something must have spooked him if this is all true. In that case my best guess (and it is only a guess) is perhaps about the time when the accused where brought in for questioning for this rape and murders. In a small village, like any other village I suppose, word like that would travel quickly.

I won't read anything else into this, as many could easily do. I will just wait to see if the Defense brings this up again and their explanation.

[Madaussie]

So sad to see pics of her enjoying her hols. Such a pretty girl.

Heart Breaking... Absolutely Heartbreaking. As well as David who had a great future ahead. He had just been on work placement here in Australia.

[seahorse]

Ok finally breaking my silence after a long time following this. I have read every thread, every post, and feel a bit humbled to be actually entering this arena. My simple thought is...if this is david millers phone, why hasn't photos data numbers contacts etc been extracted and displayed prominantly on a big screen in the court. Please don't reply if you genuinely think smashing a phone to bits actually eliminates said data. Ok back to my observer status...carry on mates!

Exactly the reason may well be that the smashed up phone belonged to another person involved in the crime and it was intentionally smashed so the person could not be identified I mentioned this a long way back in another thread.

Maybe it belonged to someone and they had left the island and gave orders to smash it up and ditch it we can think of many different scenarios .

Also the video of the running man when it was enhanced looked like the person may have been carrying a phone could someone have mixed up phones we don't know.

But this smashed up phone should have been forensically examined I hope the defence call for it.

On the subject of phones, I still would like to know why Sean McAnna needed to use the cashier at the convenience store's phone. Where was / is his phone? Why did he not have it in the convenience store? Why did Mon harass him about this case?

[seahorse]

Without a substantial bribe the only logical decision would be innocent.

I would have thought so, but then we are not privy to every bit of evidence that is presented to the Judges.

A lot of evidence seems to have been discredited, and now it seems the only evidence the prosecution has is the phone...

The B2 actually admitted to handling it, but say they found it which is quite plausible, and seems their is actually no proof it was David's... or even if he had it at the time he was murdered.

Maybe someone gave it to them? You know, like a reward, for example, for doing some manual labour, like lifting heavy objects.

[Gweiloman]

I would have thought so, but then we are not privy to every bit of evidence that is presented to the Judges.

A lot of evidence seems to have been discredited, and now it seems the only evidence the prosecution has is the phone...

The B2 actually admitted to handling it, but say they found it which is quite plausible, and seems their is actually no proof it was David's... or even if he had it at the time he was murdered.

Maybe someone gave it to them? You know, like a reward, for example, for doing some manual labour, like lifting heavy objects.

There has been so much misinformation (particularly on this thread and especially the last few posts) about this phone that I doubt if anyone remembers exactly what was said and what is actually true.

Whatever the truth about the phone, it is still, at the end of the day, just circumstantial evidence in a trial about rape and murder (it's not a trial about a phone theft). If this is the only solid "damning" evidence the prosecution has, then I can't possibly imagine a conviction based solely on this.

[Gweiloman]

The defendants also agreed that broken glass was used as murder weapon, though no glass was found at or near the crime scene. When a person is being tortured, they'll say any damn thing. BTW, why have we heard nearly nothing in the prosecutions' presentations about wounds to victims or weapons used? It couldn't be because RTP and prosecution are hiding things could it? or maybe because Thai forensics completely mis-read (intentionally or unwittingly) the items they're supposedly trained to diagnose. It will be interesting when Ms Pontip takes the stand. Even more interesting if any British forensic findings are submitted to the proceedings.

Thanks for bringing up the so called murder weapon.

Not long after the murders occurred and the B2 were arrested, one of the posters from the "other" side tried to convince me that it was indeed possible that the hoe made the sharp cuts that were inflicted on DM. That discussion finished along the lines that it will be proven conclusively in court.

However, I didn't read anywhere where any particular attention was focused on whether the hoe was in fact the murder weapon used on DM (it could possibly have been on HW). Also, there were no reports of any other weapons that could have inflicted the wounds on DM. I'm just wondering if whether the defence decided that it was unnecessary to pursue this as the hoe does not belong to the B2 so it doesn't do anything to either the prosecution or defences' case. Also, it was unnecessary to focus on possible shark-toothed rings as once again, it would not bolster the defence's case as it is the B2 that are on trial and not some others.

The murder weapons according to the Roti seller included a wine bottle. So if they obtained autopsy reports then fragments may well remain. Does anyone know if the mention of a wine bottle was made in court. I haven't seen it from the reports I read?

I think David's injuries could well have been made with a short sharp instrument similar to a reconstruction that was made in this bar. A few weeks after the murder and posted on-line.

Imo, I don't think a pick axe could be wielded with sufficient precision to cause those wounds. If you were to swing a pick axe at another, you would be doing it with a tremendous amount of force and if it connects with flesh, it would imbed itself quite deeply. The wounds on David (and on Sean) don't seem very deep - maybe just to the depth of what a short push knife would achieve.

Bear in mind that the "investigators" need to have a plausible explanation for what could have caused those wounds. If they were trying to protect some individuals, they would have to steer away from weapons openly worn by these individuals. The wounds looked like they could also be caused by shards of glass. This could explain why a wine bottle was introduced into the "confession". This might well have been a miscalculation - what are the chances there would be wine bottles conveniently lying around? It would have been more believable if they had said beer bottles.

[Madaussie]

The defendants also agreed that broken glass was used as murder weapon, though no glass was found at or near the crime scene. When a person is being tortured, they'll say any damn thing. BTW, why have we heard nearly nothing in the prosecutions' presentations about wounds to victims or weapons used? It couldn't be because RTP and prosecution are hiding things could it? or maybe because Thai forensics completely mis-read (intentionally or unwittingly) the items they're supposedly trained to diagnose. It will be interesting when Ms Pontip takes the stand. Even more interesting if any British forensic findings are submitted to the proceedings.

Thanks for bringing up the so called murder weapon.

Not long after the murders occurred and the B2 were arrested, one of the posters from the "other" side tried to convince me that it was indeed possible that the hoe made the sharp cuts that were inflicted on DM. That discussion finished along the lines that it will be proven conclusively in court.

However, I didn't read anywhere where any particular attention was focused on whether the hoe was in fact the murder weapon used on DM (it could possibly have been on HW). Also, there were no reports of any other weapons that could have inflicted the wounds on DM. I'm just wondering if whether the defence decided that it was unnecessary to pursue this as the hoe does not belong to the B2 so it doesn't do anything to either the prosecution or defences' case. Also, it was unnecessary to focus on possible shark-toothed rings as once again, it would not bolster the defence's case as it is the B2 that are on trial and not some others.

The murder weapons according to the Roti seller included a wine bottle. So if they obtained autopsy reports then fragments may well remain. Does anyone know if the mention of a wine bottle was made in court. I haven't seen it from the reports I read?

I think David's injuries could well have been made with a short sharp instrument similar to a reconstruction that was made in this bar. A few weeks after the murder and posted on-line.

Imo, I don't think a pick axe could be wielded with sufficient precision to cause those wounds. If you were to swing a pick axe at another, you would be doing it with a tremendous amount of force and if it connects with flesh, it would imbed itself quite deeply. The wounds on David (and on Sean) don't seem very deep - maybe just to the depth of what a short push knife would achieve.

Bear in mind that the "investigators" need to have a plausible explanation for what could have caused those wounds. If they were trying to protect some individuals, they would have to steer away from weapons openly worn by these individuals. The wounds looked like they could also be caused by shards of glass. This could explain why a wine bottle was introduced into the "confession". This might well have been a miscalculation - what are the chances there would be wine bottles conveniently lying around? It would have been more believable if they had said beer bottles.

oh they are nasty sharp things I think they use them to cut into trees? to tap the rubber maybe?? just an idea

[Gweiloman]

The murder weapons according to the Roti seller included a wine bottle. So if they obtained autopsy reports then fragments may well remain. Does anyone know if the mention of a wine bottle was made in court. I haven't seen it from the reports I read?

I think David's injuries could well have been made with a short sharp instrument similar to a reconstruction that was made in this bar. A few weeks after the murder and posted on-line.

Imo, I don't think a pick axe could be wielded with sufficient precision to cause those wounds. If you were to swing a pick axe at another, you would be doing it with a tremendous amount of force and if it connects with flesh, it would imbed itself quite deeply. The wounds on David (and on Sean) don't seem very deep - maybe just to the depth of what a short push knife would achieve.

Bear in mind that the "investigators" need to have a plausible explanation for what could have caused those wounds. If they were trying to protect some individuals, they would have to steer away from weapons openly worn by these individuals. The wounds looked like they could also be caused by shards of glass. This could explain why a wine bottle was introduced into the "confession". This might well have been a miscalculation - what are the chances there would be wine bottles conveniently lying around? It would have been more believable if they had said beer bottles.

oh they are nasty sharp things I think they use them to cut into trees? to tap the rubber maybe?? just an idea

The picture shows this weapon being held in both hands, which indicate weight. Rubber tapping tools are very light and nimble.

On another note, are there rubber plantations in KT?

[Madaussie]

Why didn't they just put the SIM card into a phone and get the contact numbers etc and call them?

Considering we are talking about a government investigating this case so they have huge resources why didn't they just ask the phone company who the number belongs to. I

It will be on the sim card information?

Seems mighty strange to me they didn't do any of this?

[Gweiloman]

Why didn't they just put the SIM card into a phone and get the contact numbers etc and call them?

Considering we are talking about a government investigating this case so they have huge resources why didn't they just ask the phone company who the number belongs to. I

It will be on the sim card information?

Seems mighty strange to me they didn't do any of this?

Good point!

Maybe they already knew, before conveniently finding it in the bushes, whose phone it was?

[Madaussie]

The murder weapons according to the Roti seller included a wine bottle. So if they obtained autopsy reports then fragments may well remain. Does anyone know if the mention of a wine bottle was made in court. I haven't seen it from the reports I read?

I think David's injuries could well have been made with a short sharp instrument similar to a reconstruction that was made in this bar. A few weeks after the murder and posted on-line.

Imo, I don't think a pick axe could be wielded with sufficient precision to cause those wounds. If you were to swing a pick axe at another, you would be doing it with a tremendous amount of force and if it connects with flesh, it would imbed itself quite deeply. The wounds on David (and on Sean) don't seem very deep - maybe just to the depth of what a short push knife would achieve.

Bear in mind that the "investigators" need to have a plausible explanation for what could have caused those wounds. If they were trying to protect some individuals, they would have to steer away from weapons openly worn by these individuals. The wounds looked like they could also be caused by shards of glass. This could explain why a wine bottle was introduced into the "confession". This might well have been a miscalculation - what are the chances there would be wine bottles conveniently lying around? It would have been more believable if they had said beer bottles.

oh they are nasty sharp things I think they use them to cut into trees? to tap the rubber maybe?? just an idea

The picture shows this weapon being held in both hands, which indicate weight. Rubber tapping tools are very light and nimble.

On another note, are there rubber plantations in KT?

Hi Not sure actually anyway its a sharp tool. Easier to swing than a Hoe. I have seen one person using this weapon with a single hand though so I don't think its heavy.

[Madaussie]

Why didn't they just put the SIM card into a phone and get the contact numbers etc and call them?

Considering we are talking about a government investigating this case so they have huge resources why didn't they just ask the phone company who the number belongs to. I

It will be on the sim card information?

Seems mighty strange to me they didn't do any of this?

Good point!

Maybe they already knew, before conveniently finding it in the bushes, whose phone it was?

They even put it in a plastic bag ready for the police to arrive.

[BritTim]

I would have thought so, but then we are not privy to every bit of evidence that is presented to the Judges.

A lot of evidence seems to have been discredited, and now it seems the only evidence the prosecution has is the phone...

The B2 actually admitted to handling it, but say they found it which is quite plausible, and seems their is actually no proof it was David's... or even if he had it at the time he was murdered.

The phone (even without proof that it was David's) is extremely interesting. It may or may not be true that Wai Phyo "found" the phone. If, in fact, he did not, there are still scenarios where he was not present at the time of the murder. For instance, perhaps he would lie in a misguided attempt to shield others he believed innocent. There are actually many scenarios, and we are speculating on the truth until we read of Wai Phyo's testimony in court.

[smedly]

some of the wounds on Davids body are consistant with a short sharp weapon, it is very distinct, I have looked at shark bites on the net and the wounds are very similar consistant with a one tooth shark, no such a thing obviously unless....................................

Just passing my opinion which is more than the police investigating have done, in fact it seems to have been totally ignored

[Nigeone]

I have stayed out of this subject post for a while due to several reasons. My total respect goes out to those of you that have persevered in fighting for justice in this case. So many posters on here have continuously put forward there thoughts and opinions on what's happened in this tragic and brutal case. There's also been the very few posters for what ever reason feel they have to derail the forum whenever possible. It's sad that justice in this case for Hannah and David has been obstructed by other agendas and the possible wrongfully sentence of the B2 and the anguish of them and there families. And as for Hannah and David's parents and family I despair for how they must feel especially as the trial has taken its course. From allegedly saying they were hopefull that justice would be done must be totally confused and feel badly let down by the Thai police and authorities. I can say this , and before any of the RTP defenders come at me, as many have said and I have myself stated previously up this date still NO evidence has been produced or offered into the case that remotely would suggest any involvement by the B2. All the pages on this topic and pouring out of opinions and thoughts on what might have happened and failings in procedures have come to nothing apart from making many of us feel we are helping in solving this crime and the possible further one of innocents found guilty. People on here really do care, I know that for sure, and the injustices that abound in the Thai police and justice system have for many been a cause of so much incredulation and amazement. And yes even criminality by the powers that be. Will it ever change? .For those you have fought so hard and long I feel it will and this trial is a watershed I hope that shows up all that's wrong in policing and courts in this country. The RTP have been shown up in lacking even the basic skill set and ability to even muster a half decent case when the questions have been asked and it's clear to me it hasn't happened very often if at all where they have been taken to task and actually had to justify there procedures and decisions. It's very very clear that they haven't a clue how to correctly investigate a crime of this magnitude and seriousness and have been found wanting in every aspect. The cover up daily continues but the good people who have fought this case in here and the likes of Andy Hall I salute you all. Do you, and have you ,made a difference. Dam right you have ! I'm sure of that. It's not going to happen over night but the awareness in the failures of the RTP is there for all to see !! It's no longer enough to say it's like this because we say so ! No evidence ! Up to now, how many days in court, how many witnesses,? What happened to the 65 alleged witness for the prosecution ! The finest defense in this case has been the prosecution. What will happen. The defense will present there case in a professional way as would be expected. And it will go to appeal! Saving face and all that. In any civilized society it would have never made it to trial. And if it did in any civilised society it would have been thrown out in the first weeks.! It's a hot potato and nobody knows what to do least of all the RTP with there 'perfect case'. So hang in there guys, you have made a difference and I know the majority just want justice for Hannah and David regardless of what that means but just don't feel the B2 represents that justice. Bring on the defense !

Edited August 31, 2015 by Nigeone

[Nigeone]

some of the wounds on Davids body are consistant with a short sharp weapon, it is very distinct, I have looked at shark bites on the net and the wounds are very similar consistant with a one tooth shark, no such a thing obviously unless....................................

Just passing my opinion which is more than the police investigating have done, in fact it seems to have been totally ignored

Maybe just maybe,it just didn't fit the agenda they had dreamt up! Too late to change mid course ! I feel sure the fact there's a expert forensic witness for the defense I feel could be the key. I agree those injuries could never ever come from a hoe! In fact there has to be another murder weapon as David never died from been hit with the hoe for sure. But we've been there before so,many times haven't we. Bring on the defense and I feel we will get some interesting points being put forward...

[Madaussie]

some of the wounds on Davids body are consistant with a short sharp weapon, it is very distinct, I have looked at shark bites on the net and the wounds are very similar consistant with a one tooth shark, no such a thing obviously unless....................................

Just passing my opinion which is more than the police investigating have done, in fact it seems to have been totally ignored

Maybe just maybe,it just didn't fit the agenda they had dreamt up! Too late to change mid course ! I feel sure the fact there's a expert forensic witness for the defense I feel could be the key. I agree those injuries could never ever come from a hoe! In fact there has to be another murder weapon as David never died from been hit with the hoe for sure. But we've been there before so,many times haven't we. Bring on the defense and I feel we will get some interesting points being put forward...

David died from Drowning. He was alive even though he was wounded. He was drowned..

[Madaussie]

I would have thought so, but then we are not privy to every bit of evidence that is presented to the Judges.

A lot of evidence seems to have been discredited, and now it seems the only evidence the prosecution has is the phone...

The B2 actually admitted to handling it, but say they found it which is quite plausible, and seems their is actually no proof it was David's... or even if he had it at the time he was murdered.

The phone (even without proof that it was David's) is extremely interesting. It may or may not be true that Wai Phyo "found" the phone. If, in fact, he did not, there are still scenarios where he was not present at the time of the murder. For instance, perhaps he would lie in a misguided attempt to shield others he believed innocent. There are actually many scenarios, and we are speculating on the truth until we read of Wai Phyo's testimony in court.

Totally agree.

Now we will hear their side of story and this is what we need. Now its weighted towards to much speculation. None of us know what they are going to say.

[smedly]

ok lets look at this phone issue, there are two camps on here - those (the vast majority) that think this case is a stitch up and those that think the RTP have done a stellar job and have grounds to convict B2 (very few)

suppose for a moment that the police have manufactured this phone trail - how have they done that and what do we know

1. they have presented no evidence that the phone belonged to David (critical) something that would be simple to do, at this moment in time it is an iphone one of many thousands in Thailand - it could still very well be his but that changes nothing from the points below

2, the phone could easily have been planted

3. as far as I know they did not examine the said phone for dna or finger prints, I have got to question that, it is fundamental in any investigation if you want to connect the evidence to the story, why have they not done this

4. the testimony from the 2x people involved that recieved the phone have since gone and are no longer available, they could easily have been paid off to say what they said, why are they not available and why did they leave ? where are they now

5. something I am still not clear about, when did the accused make their statement about the phone, was it before they had legal council and as such would be no more reliable than the discredited retracted confession

6. there are also conflicting accounts of phones from the start of this investigation creating doubt about what the police are claiming, didn't they claim to have found a phone on the beach belonging to one of the victims ?

I am not saying the above is true, it is purely conjecture on my part but IMO is still feasible and not beyond possibility

I would be very interested in other peoples thoughts on the matter so feel free to reply to my post !!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Edited August 31, 2015 by smedly

[Nigeone]

some of the wounds on Davids body are consistant with a short sharp weapon, it is very distinct, I have looked at shark bites on the net and the wounds are very similar consistant with a one tooth shark, no such a thing obviously unless....................................

Just passing my opinion which is more than the police investigating have done, in fact it seems to have been totally ignored

Maybe just maybe,it just didn't fit the agenda they had dreamt up! Too late to change mid course ! I feel sure the fact there's a expert forensic witness for the defense I feel could be the key. I agree those injuries could never ever come from a hoe! In fact there has to be another murder weapon as David never died from been hit with the hoe for sure. But we've been there before so,many times haven't we. Bring on the defense and I feel we will get some interesting points being put forward...

David died from Drowning. He was alive even though he was wounded. He was drowned..

I respect and understand what and why your saying that. We only know what we are told at the moment and initially it was said he died from a blow to the head. I'm not saying your wrong but equally I don't believe anything that comes from the RTP side. I feel we might know more for sure after the defense gets a chance.

PS I do know at a later date it was said he drowned. Would like to hear the UK coroners reports on both Hannah and David sadly..

Edited August 31, 2015 by Nigeone

[Nigeone]

ok lets look at this phone issue, there are two camps on here - those (the vast majority) that think this case is a stitch up and those that think the RTP have done a stellar job and have grounds to convict B2 (very few)

suppose for a moment that the police have manufactured this phone trail - how have they done that and what do we know

1. they have presented no evidence that the phone belonged to David (critical) something that would be simple to do, at this moment in time it is an iphone one of many thousands in Thailand - it could still very well be his but that changes nothing from the points below

2, the phone could easily have been planted

3. as far as I know they did not examine the said phone for dna or finger prints, I have got to question that, it is fundamental in any investigation if you want to connect the evidence to the story, why have they not done this

4. the testimony from the 2x people involved that recieved the phone have since gone and are no longer available, they could easily have been paid off to say what they said, why are they not available and why did they leave ? where are they now

5. something I am still not clear about, when did the accused make their statement about the phone, was it before they had legal council and as such would be no more reliable than the discredited retracted confession

6. there are also conflicting accounts of phones from the start of this investigation creating doubt about what the police are claiming, didn't they claim to have found a phone on the beach belonging to one of the victims ?

I am not saying the above is true, it is purely conjecture on my part but IMO is still feasible and not beyond possibility

I would be very interested in other peoples thoughts on the matter so feel free to reply to my post !!!!!!!!!!!!!!

For what it's worth I don't feel it's possible to get past point 1 on your timetable. It's a phone ! Many phones lost or stolen daily everywhere in the world. Doesn't mean a thing unless it's linked to someone. And as you say that's not hard to do and should be the first stop in a investigation as it opens up so many lines of enquiry. But they don't know who's phone it is or don't know how to identify it or it's as likely nothing to do with the crime.

[catsanddogs]

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/british-backpackers-murdered-thailand-police-4266308

SUNDAY PM - Hannah arrives at Koh Tao with around 50 other western travellers and heads for Sairee beach. She meets David at a beachside party

MONDAY 1AM - Hannah and David are seen leaving the bar and heading towards Hat Sai Ri beach, just 100 metres away

MONDAY 5AM - A man is seen leaving the same party and is caught acting suspiciously on CCTV. He is walking back and forth outside a business premises near the beach

This is the first time I have read any report that says 'A man is seen leaving the same party and is caught acting suspiciously on CCTV...'

I assume this is 'running Asian man'. Why wasn't CCTV footage released of this man 'leaving the same party'?

[Patsycat]

some of the wounds on Davids body are consistant with a short sharp weapon, it is very distinct, I have looked at shark bites on the net and the wounds are very similar consistant with a one tooth shark, no such a thing obviously unless....................................

Just passing my opinion which is more than the police investigating have done, in fact it seems to have been totally ignored

Maybe just maybe,it just didn't fit the agenda they had dreamt up! Too late to change mid course ! I feel sure the fact there's a expert forensic witness for the defense I feel could be the key. I agree those injuries could never ever come from a hoe! In fact there has to be another murder weapon as David never died from been hit with the hoe for sure. But we've been there before so,many times haven't we. Bring on the defense and I feel we will get some interesting points being put forward...

David died from Drowning. He was alive even though he was wounded. He was drowned..

And if anyone had the unfortunate look at Hannah's "wounds" they were not made with a little knife. They were, I still can't unsee... horrific. that girl went through hell and back. I just hope they get the bastards that did that to her, and David.

[Nigeone]

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/british-backpackers-murdered-thailand-police-4266308

SUNDAY PM - Hannah arrives at Koh Tao with around 50 other western travellers and heads for Sairee beach. She meets David at a beachside party

MONDAY 1AM - Hannah and David are seen leaving the bar and heading towards Hat Sai Ri beach, just 100 metres away

MONDAY 5AM - A man is seen leaving the same party and is caught acting suspiciously on CCTV. He is walking back and forth outside a business premises near the beach

This is the first time I have read any report that says 'A man is seen leaving the same party and is caught acting suspiciously on CCTV...'

I assume this is 'running Asian man'. Why wasn't CCTV footage released of this man 'leaving the same party'?

I think you know the answer to that already don't you !..but you also know that 200 of the 300 cameras weren't working ! That covers a multitude doesn't it.! Always can fall back on no camera working !

[Eirene]

C&D...I think they are referring to the two unknown tourists seen walking ahead of the running man who they first identified as Hannah and David.