Koh Tao murder trial reconvenes in Koh Samui

[thailandchilli]

The Samui Times is not known for its accuracy. 2 or the Miller family are in court but no one from the Hannah's side

Sky news reported that on day one, Hannah's parents saw the graphic images of Hannah's body and after that they didn't go to the court again.

It is quite possible that other members of the family are there.

No family there at all. no one. They are getting reports from someone there daily. They wont go back.

I think you'll find two of the Miller family are in court

Heidi Anna our adorable Zaw Lin on the stand now. he's feeling strong! many Burmese brothers and sisters in attendance at court today! mums feeling strong and looking gorgeous! had another conversation with Mrs. Miller thanking me profusely for our conversation and hug last night. she thanked me for keeping David's name alive... blessings to all the families deeply affected by this tragic case... we demand the truth and justice and will continue to fight for it!?????

[IslandLover]

Shermanator, the guy whose picture you have posted is a different guy from the ring guy.

Thanks for pointing that out, but who's the perverted <deleted> posing with the hoe then?

"Hoe Man" is Aon. He's another regular on the AC bar party scene. According to local KT sources he runs a motorbike rental and repair shop.

The pictures above are of "Stingray Man", another regular at the AC bar. I don't know what his name is but you can recognise him by the prominent birthmark across his forehead.

[thailandchilli]

http://www.edp24.co.uk/news/senior_police_officers_give_contradictory_evidence_at_hannah_witheridge_murder_trial_1_4215995

In court today, one of the main police investigators, Lieutenant Colonel Somsak Nurod, said he had spoken to the police pathologist on the 2nd and 3rd of October, at the same time as the defendants were arrested and two weeks after the autopsies, but otherwise he had no further contact with him.

However, the defence lawyers representing the two Myanmar workers produced a statement from the pathologist, stating that Lt Col Nurod had made two separate trips to meet with him in Bangkok in late October, and again on the November 18 after both defendants had retracted their confessions.

The pathologist’s statement said that the meetings had included discussion on the hair found in Ms Witheridge’s hand.

I take it then that there's no equivalent law in Thailand as in the west for Perjury, outright lying to the court in other words. I guess there's no oath to take in Thailand so they can basically say what they want with no recourse, up to them...

[sweatalot]

Heidi Anna our adorable Zaw Lin on the stand now. he's feeling strong! many Burmese brothers and sisters in attendance at court today! mums feeling strong and looking gorgeous! had another conversation with Mrs. Miller thanking me profusely for our conversation and hug last night. she thanked me for keeping David's name alive... blessings to all the families deeply affected by this tragic case... we demand the truth and justice and will continue to fight for it!

from her fb page 2 hrs ago

Omg our adorable??!!!?? Hugs and kisses with the victims family??? Wowwowow where is that obscure antiquated post now about the families saying the defence has a tough case to answer to??? Ahhhhhhahaja loving this already hah

Loving this???... have you forgotten that two young people were murdered and their families are never going to fully get over this, but hey ho at least you're getting your kicks out of it.

Maybe loving this is a poor choice of words sir. Sorry to offend you. I am liking very much the display or reports of displays of touching emotion and the appearance of the families coming to terms with this hoax on display by the thai rtp courts and prosecution. To clarify no i am not loving the situation these families are being put through nor the moment of terror and pain hanna and david experienced. Retribution is a long time coming in this charade please don't think I am enjoying "the show".

never thought that. And I think most of the other posters here didn', too.

[dragonballs]

i hope for him it is not a roti seller doing the translation, again

[Rykbanlor]

i hope for him it is not a roti seller doing the translation, again

Haha, no, I reckon the defence team may have been able to provide a better service.

[stephenterry]

http://www.edp24.co.uk/news/senior_police_officers_give_contradictory_evidence_at_hannah_witheridge_murder_trial_1_4215995

In court today, one of the main police investigators, Lieutenant Colonel Somsak Nurod, said he had spoken to the police pathologist on the 2nd and 3rd of October, at the same time as the defendants were arrested and two weeks after the autopsies, but otherwise he had no further contact with him.

However, the defence lawyers representing the two Myanmar workers produced a statement from the pathologist, stating that Lt Col Nurod had made two separate trips to meet with him in Bangkok in late October, and again on the November 18 after both defendants had retracted their confessions.

The pathologist’s statement said that the meetings had included discussion on the hair found in Ms Witheridge’s hand.

When challenged in court, Lt Col Nurod admitted that further discussion about the hair strand had indeed taken place, but he did not reveal exactly what was said.

I take it then that there's no equivalent law in Thailand as in the west for Perjury, outright lying to the court in other words. I guess there's no oath to take in Thailand so they can basically say what they want with no recourse, up to them...

of course there is. It's just that there is NO enforcement. Rtp are a law unto themselves

[edwinchester]

Zaw Lin accused of Koh Tao murders takes the stand as the defense present their case

KOH SAMUI: -- Zaw Lin, one of the two migrant workers charged with the Koh Tao murders took the stand in Koh Samui Provincial court today, 2nd September 2015, a day later than expected. After twelve days of prosecution evidence one further day was required for the testimony of a senior police officer who took the stand on the 1st of September in a hearing that did not close until 1.02am.

The court session, due to reconvene at 10am today got underway at 10-30. In front of a packed court room including members of both Hannah Witheridge and David Millers family. 22 year old Zaw Lin faced the judges with a translator to his left. Giving his testimony in Burmese the accused was questioned by the defense team on his movements on the night of the murders.

Bar worker Zaw Lin seemed confident in delivering his testimony despite the stressful situation. His mother as well as the mother of his co-accused Wei Phyo, were also in the court room.

After initially confessing to the crime, both Zaw Lin and Wei Phyo, both from Rakhine State, retracted their confessions claiming their admission of guilt was the result of torture. Although the police strenuously deny any allegations of torture a cell mate of the accused testified he had seen wounds on the accused bodies and Zaw Lin was taken to Samui Hospital complaining of chest pains after his incarceration.

The court also heard that the accused were initially questioned by the police via translators from Myanmar who do not speak the Rakhine dialect or have full comprehension of the Thai language. The witnesses for the prosecution have largely been police officers. DNA linking the pair to the crime has also been presented, however leading Thai pathologist Porntip Rojanansund, has been highly critical of the way the forensic investigation was conducted, she is due to take the stand later this month.

The trial that started on the 8th of July, will break once again after today’s hearing, originally due to reconvene on the 22nd of September the 11th has now been earmarked as an additional date for the defense team.

-- Samui Times 2015-09-02

So here it is:

"DNA linking the pair to the crime has also been presented"

I hope this puts the argument that no evidence, DNA or otherwise, has been presented to rest.

DNA has been presented but consider this, Lt Gen Kamrob Panyakeaw, head of the Police Forensic Institute in Bangkok, is on record as saying "We are not in charge of the case investigation part, therefore we don’t get the reports of who the DNA we are testing belongs to. This however leaves control of the tests in the hands of one unit and takes away normal safeguards."

[thailandchilli]

So here it is:

"DNA linking the pair to the crime has also been presented"

I hope this puts the argument that no evidence, DNA or otherwise, has been presented to rest.

DNA has been presented but consider this, Lt Gen Kamrob Panyakeaw, head of the Police Forensic Institute in Bangkok, is on record as saying "We are not in charge of the case investigation part, therefore we don’t get the reports of who the DNA we are testing belongs to. This however leaves control of the tests in the hands of one unit and takes away normal safeguards."

Normal safeguards were not the strong point in forensics. Collected by the RTP, tested by the RTP who even admitted they were surprised in how quickly they got the results, reports delivered by the RTP, contradictions in their own statements by the RTP. But guess what, the results are still believed by a handful of posters

[StealthEnergiser]

Will the Defence call Nomsod to the stand just for a few questions and put him under oath to say where he was on the night of the murders.

[AleG]

The court session, due to reconvene at 10am today got underway at 10-30. In front of a packed court room including members of both Hannah Witheridge and David Millers family

Is that true? I didn't think they had attended?

Well, this is pretty well how the Media has reported this case from day one.

One day reported the Family is not here and is not coming. The next day they are reported sitting in the Court Room.

The Samui Times is not known for its accuracy. 2 or the Miller family are in court but no one from the Hannah's side

Sky news reported that on day one, Hannah's parents saw the graphic images of Hannah's body and after that they didn't go to the court again.

It is quite possible that other members of the family are there.

It's also possible that they are not there but someone again is pretending to be part of the Whiteridge family. The incident referred in this article was allegedly that, people pretending to be Hannah Witheridge family members to get access to the courtroom:

"And of course it is also of the utmost importance that those attending the trial do so with decorum and dignity. While many accusations have been made with regards to the wrong men standing trial it is important to remember that no matter what one’s own personal opinions are, the court is a court – where respect and good manners should be expected. Respecting those in authority, dressing appropriately, abiding by court protocol and never using dubious means to gain access to the court are all vital factors in ensuring this high profile trial is not turned into a high profile media circus that will damage all those concerned."

[Rykbanlor]

annah's body and after that they didn't go to the court again.

It is quite possible that other members of the family are there.

It's also possible that they are not there but someone again is pretending to be part of the Whiteridge family. The incident referred in this article was allegedly that, people pretending to be Hannah Witheridge family members to get access to the courtroom:

"And of course it is also of the utmost importance that those attending the trial do so with decorum and dignity. While many accusations have been made with regards to the wrong men standing trial it is important to remember that no matter what one’s own personal opinions are, the court is a court – where respect and good manners should be expected. Respecting those in authority, dressing appropriately, abiding by court protocol and never using dubious means to gain access to the court are all vital factors in ensuring this high profile trial is not turned into a high profile media circus that will damage all those concerned."

This article did not cite a specific incident.

[metisdead]

A post commenting on moderation has been removed.

This is an English language forum, English is the only acceptable language anywhere on ThaiVisa including Classifieds, except within the Thai language forum, where of course using Thai is allowed.

You can find that near the top of the forum rules: http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/index.php?app=forums&module=extras&section=boardrules

[Madaussie]

I think you'll find two of the Miller family are in court

Heidi Anna our adorable Zaw Lin on the stand now. he's feeling strong! many Burmese brothers and sisters in attendance at court today! mums feeling strong and looking gorgeous! had another conversation with Mrs. Miller thanking me profusely for our conversation and hug last night. she thanked me for keeping David's name alive... blessings to all the families deeply affected by this tragic case... we demand the truth and justice and will continue to fight for it!?????

I was referring to the Witheridges

[Madaussie]

That's a fair comment.

I found this before. A summary of Seans Thai adventures. What do they say. A picture speaks a 1000 words.. well heres about 10,000.

Seans Thai Trip.jpg

Loonodingle, you are not fooling anyone.

You keep your wild allegations to yourself or go for a holiday M8... Just because I stole his pictures..lol..

[thailandchilli]

I think you'll find two of the Miller family are in court

Heidi Anna our adorable Zaw Lin on the stand now. he's feeling strong! many Burmese brothers and sisters in attendance at court today! mums feeling strong and looking gorgeous! had another conversation with Mrs. Miller thanking me profusely for our conversation and hug last night. she thanked me for keeping David's name alive... blessings to all the families deeply affected by this tragic case... we demand the truth and justice and will continue to fight for it!?????

I was referring to the Witheridges

Ah ok I would have given your post a like to acknowledge that but I've run out of likes for today

[sweatalot]

Zaw Lin accused of Koh Tao murders takes the stand as the defense present their case

KOH SAMUI: -- Zaw Lin, one of the two migrant workers charged with the Koh Tao murders took the stand in Koh Samui Provincial court today, 2nd September 2015, a day later than expected. After twelve days of prosecution evidence one further day was required for the testimony of a senior police officer who took the stand on the 1st of September in a hearing that did not close until 1.02am.

The court session, due to reconvene at 10am today got underway at 10-30. In front of a packed court room including members of both Hannah Witheridge and David Millers family. 22 year old Zaw Lin faced the judges with a translator to his left. Giving his testimony in Burmese the accused was questioned by the defense team on his movements on the night of the murders.

Bar worker Zaw Lin seemed confident in delivering his testimony despite the stressful situation. His mother as well as the mother of his co-accused Wei Phyo, were also in the court room.

After initially confessing to the crime, both Zaw Lin and Wei Phyo, both from Rakhine State, retracted their confessions claiming their admission of guilt was the result of torture. Although the police strenuously deny any allegations of torture a cell mate of the accused testified he had seen wounds on the accused bodies and Zaw Lin was taken to Samui Hospital complaining of chest pains after his incarceration.

The court also heard that the accused were initially questioned by the police via translators from Myanmar who do not speak the Rakhine dialect or have full comprehension of the Thai language. The witnesses for the prosecution have largely been police officers. DNA linking the pair to the crime has also been presented, however leading Thai pathologist Porntip Rojanansund, has been highly critical of the way the forensic investigation was conducted, she is due to take the stand later this month.

The trial that started on the 8th of July, will break once again after today’s hearing, originally due to reconvene on the 22nd of September the 11th has now been earmarked as an additional date for the defense team.

-- Samui Times 2015-09-02

So here it is:

"DNA linking the pair to the crime has also been presented"

I hope this puts the argument that no evidence, DNA or otherwise, has been presented to rest.

" DNA linking the pair to the crime has also been presented, however leading Thai pathologist Porntip Rojanansund, has been highly critical of the way the forensic investigation was conducted, she is due to take the stand later this month".

DNA has been presented but not substantiated, verified, or validated. The rtp have only said it matches.

DNA has been presented.

I think what they mean is that the police say they found dna.

It does not mean it was really there - it's just a claim

[thailandchilli]

The Samui Times is not known for its accuracy. 2 or the Miller family are in court but no one from the Hannah's side

Sky news reported that on day one, Hannah's parents saw the graphic images of Hannah's body and after that they didn't go to the court again.

It is quite possible that other members of the family are there.

It's also possible that they are not there but someone again is pretending to be part of the Whiteridge family. The incident referred in this article was allegedly that, people pretending to be Hannah Witheridge family members to get access to the courtroom:

"And of course it is also of the utmost importance that those attending the trial do so with decorum and dignity. While many accusations have been made with regards to the wrong men standing trial it is important to remember that no matter what one’s own personal opinions are, the court is a court – where respect and good manners should be expected. Respecting those in authority, dressing appropriately, abiding by court protocol and never using dubious means to gain access to the court are all vital factors in ensuring this high profile trial is not turned into a high profile media circus that will damage all those concerned."

And its also a fact that the Miller family are there, below from a reporter in the court

Mr Miller’s family are attending the latest round of court hearings on Koh Samui but Ms Witheridge’s family are not.

http://www.eveningnews24.co.uk/news/senior_police_officers_give_contradictory_evidence_at_hannah_witheridge_murder_trial_1_4215995?utm_medium=twitter&utm_source=twitterfeed

Please tell me where you get the info that somebody tried to impersonate the Witherbridge family to gain entrance into the court? Its just that I've never heard that before?

[AleG]

"Replicated" is too vague to be interpretable in this context, especially when being discussed by, and reported by non-technical personnel. It could mean at least two things and maybe more.

In all reputable forensic labs, once DNA is isolated from the biological sample, a portion is kept in case it is needed for retesting. At its simplest this would mean dividing the sample in half, testing one portion and keeping the rest in a freezer.

This would always be done except when there is so little DNA it must all be used up during testing. To only have this little would be unlikely, as only around 1 nanogram (ng - a billionth of a gram) is needed for a single profile run and, though multiple runs are always necessary, there would usually be enough from rape kit samples to keep many ng of the original DNA in reserve. This would be a "replicate" sample in one sense.

Pure isolated DNA when stored in a freezer under conditions known to all forensic DNA labs keeps indefinitely, for decades.

The second meaning of replication could refer to the basis of the method used to derive a DNA profile, called PCR. Each 1 ng DNA sample you are testing, (this equals a single run) is mixed with a kit solution which contains a set of fluorescent dyes, small pieces of DNA (primer) and an enzyme. By heating and cooling this solution around 25-30 times 15 areas of the DNA are replicated, that is their mass is actually multiplied in the tube thosands of fold from the original sample.

At the end you have 15 multiplied fragments labelled with dye that are run on a machine that detects the size of the fragments. This gives 15 pairs of numbers that comprises a unique profile.

Not all this sample is used for detection on the machine and it can be run through again if necessary without repeating the entire PCR. But although stable for many weeks when frozen , this PCR reaction does go off because of loss of dye stability and so on. If they are referring to these as the "replicated" samples it is possible that they could degrade to the point of being unreadable.

But if they were forced into the position of having to use these old reactions this would mean that they only had a minute amount of DNA to start with, only a few ng, so didn't have enough to run the PCR again from the infinitely stable pure DNA starting sample, which would present zero technical problems (I have done PCRs from 10 year old human DNA with my own hands).

This would argue a disastrously bad sample collection or extremely low levels of touch DNA- you would not expect such problems from a rape kit sample.

This reports are more likely than not coming from a translator with no technical training, translating on the fly to a journalist as witnesses testify, I don't think the terms used in these reports would end up being very accurate.

Having said that, just a couple weeks ago the defense rejected the offer to have samples from the autopsy retested, that, obviously, suggests there are samples available.

[sweatalot]

I had assumed all along that DNA typing was only available to RTP and (later on) prosecutors. However, Headman family/friends' shielders had often written, in these T.Visa threads that essentially everyone had direct access to the DNA typing cards. I distinctly recall JohnThailandJohn posting several times that DNA typing (in this case) was sent to specialists and labs in many places, within and outside of Thailand. I had always doubted that, and now we have proof that's not true. In sum: it backs up my (and many others') assertions that all this talk by RTP for the past 11 months about 'B2 DNA matching and Nomsod's not matching' was/is completely the off-the-cuff blabberings of top brass police - directing how they want the scenario to play out.

I dearly hope, if it's proven that top brass RTP have intentionally misrepresented key data, that they're disciplined to the full extent. No warnings, no pats on the back, no assignments to inactive post BS .....but real unmitigated criminal proceedings. In a less corrupt country, people who are paid and trusted to uphold the law are given more severe sentences than regular people who break the same sorts of laws.

I, too like to have sweet dreams,

[boomerangutang]

http://www.edp24.co.uk/news/senior_police_officers_give_contradictory_evidence_at_hannah_witheridge_murder_trial_1_4215995

In court today, one of the main police investigators, Lieutenant Colonel Somsak Nurod, said he had spoken to the police pathologist on the 2nd and 3rd of October, at the same time as the defendants were arrested and two weeks after the autopsies, but otherwise he had no further contact with him.

However, the defence lawyers representing the two Myanmar workers produced a statement from the pathologist, stating that Lt Col Nurod had made two separate trips to meet with him in Bangkok in late October, and again on the November 18 after both defendants had retracted their confessions.

The pathologist’s statement said that the meetings had included discussion on the hair found in Ms Witheridge’s hand.

I take it then that there's no equivalent law in Thailand as in the west for Perjury, outright lying to the court in other words. I guess there's no oath to take in Thailand so they can basically say what they want with no recourse, up to them...

Someone beat me to the response, but I'll back it up: As with a thousand other issues in Thailand: there may be a law against perjury, but it's rarely enforced, and even when mentioned, it only applies in a subjective way. In other words, if you're rich or of a high social class, or buddies with important people, then you might just get a stern look or a grin. If you're an ordinary person, maybe a 50 baht fine.

Will the Defence call Nomsod to the stand just for a few questions and put him under oath to say where he was on the night of the murders.

Answer: no. Even if he was on the stand, he would just stare at his lawyer. When his lawyer scratched his right ear, NS would say "I don't know" - when the lawyer scratched his left ear, NS would say "I wasn't on the island that night."

[thailandchilli]

Where has the post gone that was here a minute ago (think it was from Stealth) re Andy Hall's court update?

I think the mods deleted because of oversize text

Andy Hall ‏@Atomicalandy 3h3 hours ago

Day 14 Koh Tao murder trial just ended. Accused Zaw Lin's testimony ongoing as session ended for the day. Trial now recommences 11th Sept.

[metisdead]

If a post using oversize fonts disappears, here is why:

Several posts have had to be edited due to the use of oversized fonts.

In future they won't be edited, simply deleted.

Quit using oversize font for emphasis when posting, otherwise the disappearance of posts will continue.

[StealthEnergiser]

Where has the post gone that was here a minute ago (think it was from Stealth) re Andy Hall's court update?

it may be deleted by mistake as no advice was received from mods here it is again

Follow

Andy Hall‏@Atomicalandy

Day 14 Koh Tao murder trial just ended. Accused Zaw Lin's testimony ongoing as session ended for the day. Trial now recommences 11th Sept.

[Harry H]

Will the Defence call Nomsod to the stand just for a few questions and put him under oath to say where he was on the night of the murders.

Why would they, his whereabouts has been validated, unless you can confirm otherwise

[StealthEnergiser]

Will the Defence call Nomsod to the stand just for a few questions and put him under oath to say where he was on the night of the murders.

Why would they, his whereabouts has been validated, unless you can confirm otherwise

I am not sure if they have been validated under oath .

[Harry H]

Will the Defence call Nomsod to the stand just for a few questions and put him under oath to say where he was on the night of the murders.

Why would they, his whereabouts has been validated, unless you can confirm otherwise

I am not sure if they have been validated under oath .

No need

[StealthEnergiser]

If a post using oversize fonts disappears, here is why:

Several posts have had to be edited due to the use of oversized fonts.

In future they won't be edited, simply deleted.

Quit using oversize font for emphasis when posting, otherwise the disappearance of posts will continue.

Sorry about that it was just straight copy and paste will edit size in future.

[BeefSlapper]

Telegraph article http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/asia/thailand/11838501/Suspect-in-British-backpacker-murder-trial-describes-police-torture.html

[Harry H]

Telegraph article http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/asia/thailand/11838501/Suspect-in-British-backpacker-murder-trial-describes-police-torture.htmi

i think we would all expect this kind of detail, given what the end result could be