Koh Tao murder trial reconvenes in Koh Samui

[catsanddogs]

My post has disappeared so apologies if it appears again!

It said - I would be interested to know if the clothes that were stolen from Win on the beach were described in court today. The top that Maung was wearing in the CCTV stills appeared to be the one that Win was wearing on the motorbike. So I'm wondering if the black top was the one that was supposedly stolen from the beach that Maung seemed to be wearing later on. unfortunately I cannot find a pic of Maung wearing it with a timestamp on but I believe other posters may have one. As often happens, I am not being given an option on here to attach files so will post separately.

[thailandchilli]

Telegraph article http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/asia/thailand/11838501/Suspect-in-British-backpacker-murder-trial-describes-police-torture.htmi

i think we would all expect his kind of narrative...

Really why's that, do you know the reporter, whats wrong with his report? He was at court, were you?

[surangw]

good reason to video record interrogations and confessions

[Harry H]

Telegraph article http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/asia/thailand/11838501/Suspect-in-British-backpacker-murder-trial-describes-police-torture.htmi

i think we would all expect his kind of narrative...

Really why's that, do you know the reporter, whats wrong with his report? He was at court, were you?

Give it some thought and come back later...

[StealthEnergiser]

Telegraph article http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/asia/thailand/11838501/Suspect-in-British-backpacker-murder-trial-describes-police-torture.htmi

i think we would all expect his kind of narrative...

Really why's that, do you know the reporter, whats wrong with his report? He was at court, were you?

Give it some thought and come back later...

Can you please explain what you are talking about ?

[thailandchilli]

Telegraph article http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/asia/thailand/11838501/Suspect-in-British-backpacker-murder-trial-describes-police-torture.htmi

i think we would all expect his kind of narrative...

Really why's that, do you know the reporter, whats wrong with his report? He was at court, were you?

Give it some thought and come back later...

Or try reply to my questions rather than deflecting

[Trouble]

Umm......to put it mildly this whole trial seems very messy and I wouldn't anticipate any just outcome coming from it. TIT

That is an understatement. The police investigative efforts were messed up from the beginning as was the investigative report/case handed to the prosecutors, which had to be handed back a couple of times for additional work. A court that won't allow reporters to take notes nor allow review of court reporter transcripts of testimony (if that is being done) is all part of a very sloppy justice system. It is difficult to call this anything but a circus disguised as a justice.

[balo]

UPDATE REGARDING THE WITHERIDGES

They are not in the court. This is false reporting from the Samui newspaper.

I have a friend inside the court so I know the truth as I spoke to them on the break.

Thank you for pointing that out.

Some members here actually believe that the family is sitting with the defense team which would be considered weird in any court room .

I guess the family found it safer to follow this from home where they get daily updates and will maybe arrive the court just before the verdict.

[Fat Haggis]

Really why's that, do you know the reporter, whats wrong with his report? He was at court, were you?

Give it some thought and come back later...

Or try reply to my questions rather than deflecting

He's baiting you, don't respond, his posts are short, and antagonistic, offering very little to the thread. "don't feed him"

[catsanddogs]

Telegraph report says that after Win was stripped, blindfolded, beaten, told that his body would be dumped at sea,

he was told if he confessed that he would just go to prison for four or five years. And he had plastic bags on his head for the duration.

I am inclined to believe his statement. I sincerely hope that everyone who pays their fiver via direct debit to Amnesty

International every month will demand answers as to why they were not able to intervene when the B2 first retracted their confessions and spoke of

their torture. Disgusted.

[balo]

Not trying to be smarter than the rest but just asking: What is the value of any DNA evidence and retesting if "no proper conditions were observed and recorded in obtaining the samples"?

DNA test results may be basis for conviction only if there is "no way it can be concocted at collection point".

You're probably right. Ms Pontip will certainly address that isse. However, I for one don't want the DNA trail to be deemed completely bolloxed. I hold a quixotic hope that when the B2 are acquitted, that the original prime suspects will be hauled in to court. I admit the chances of that are about 2%, but if that were to happen, DNA would be crucial to that process.

.... if the B2 are guilty I want to see them locked behind bars for a long time. If the court can't prove they are guilty we are back to square one.

And what would "Square One" be? To me, 'square one' connotes going back to the crime scene to try and start all over again, as if the crime just happened and we don't know anything - as if we're starting with a clean slate. But we're not. We (concerned public and RTP and objective investigators) already know quite a bit. At the least, we know where to look, if there are any more clues. Example: look at flight manifests/video to Bkk for that morning. Look at ALL phone activity. Thoroughly search Mon's room, where he does laundry, and same for AC bar tough guys, Mon's cop friend, and Nomsod. If you ask me, it would be about 'Square Fifty' rather than 'Square One.' Sorry if I sound a bit frazzled, but this 'ignoring the 900 pound gorilla in the middle of the room' mentality has been dominating proceedings for nearly a year. It's frustrating, and it's far beyond RTP doing their jobs badly. It's RTP (and forensics and prosecution) purposefully skewing evidence. It stinks, and we're all (well, most us) smelling it.

Well square one or square 50 , what do you think will happen if B2 are set free? Unless someone else step forward with new information this will be a lost case I'm afraid. Maybe hire a private investigator ?

[catsanddogs]

 

UPDATE REGARDING THE WITHERIDGES

They are not in the court. This is false reporting from the Samui newspaper.

I have a friend inside the court so I know the truth as I spoke to them on the break.

Thank you for pointing that out.

Some members here actually believe that the family is sitting with the defense team which would be considered weird in any court room .

I guess the family found it safer to follow this from home where they get daily updates and will maybe arrive the court just before the verdict.

I did post earlier in the week that it was stated by the sister of Hannah on their fund raising site that the Witheridge family would be returning to the court for the verdict.

Edited September 2, 2015 by catsanddogs

[frank83628]

Good video, summing up the investigation cockups:

Did the wounds on Miller's head every come up in testimony? They appear to be delivered more so by a shark tooth ring that has been shown on other sites rather than a hoe.

Correct! Wounds were shallow and inflicted by a ray tooth ring or a push dagger. Inflicted by a left hander of equal size to David, not by a dwarf. Think the Burma guys are both right handers. Might point to whom they call "Stingray Man", bouncer at the bar where David and Hannah were part of a "conflict" that included Thais, most likely because one of the Thais started to fondle and/or insult Hannah. This has neven been investigated. Ray Shark man later posed with a hoe for a photo that basically insulted the victims once more. Some posts in other forums said that he was accused of trying to rape a blonde western girl some months before. She was able to jump off the balcony and flee from the apartment where the attack took place. Here he is - a cold blooded and sadistic person as he is described by KT locals in forums and on the street. Even though all this might be referred to as hearsay, I think that it tells a lot about a person's mindset if he proudly poses with a tool similar to the gruesome murder weapon for anyone to see...

this guy is not a bouncer, he's a motor bike mechanic, as for posing for photos, ..although the murders and how they were carried out were horrific you have to realise that not everyone has the same feelings as you lot here do, david & hannah were just tourists/farrangs as far as some (not all) were concerned…. would you all be here with so much passion if it were some thais or burmese that it happened to..i doubt it!…i dont expect many are that interested in the victims of the bombing in bkk..and before anyone jumps in i am merly pointing this out, not condoning it.

GB..you are probably right, most people with a difference of opinion have stopped posting on the thread as nothing changes and within 10 pages of being re-opened its back to personal attacks and removed posts.

[oldsailor35]

And more blonde hairs discovered, thank you to AleG for the article he posted above:

Comparing his features to images captured on CCTV, police were able to ascertain that he was one of the three men in the footage.

He had recently dyed his hair black when originally his hair was dyed blond.

Some blond strands of human hair were found at the scene and were kept as evidence. Police are awaiting DNA test results to confirm their case.

http://englishnews.thaipbs.or.th/three-migrant-workers-confess-rape-murder-british-tourists

The "running man" in the CCTV clips has black hair though...

Oh yes, the RTP forgot that crucial part though. They forgot a lot in their perfect investigation

We all know just who the running man is . Put him on the stand and see what happens then.

[balo]

If I was thay guy on the picture posing ,I would be quite upset actually having to deal with social media gossip .

Yes he could be a bad guy , but maybe just a normal guy, looking tough and posing on pictures.

It will only lead to endless speculations until someone actually can dig up som "dirt" on this guy.

[thailandchilli]

If I was thay guy on the picture posing ,I would be quite upset actually having to deal with social media gossip .

Yes he could be a bad guy , but maybe just a normal guy, looking tough and posing on pictures.

It will only lead to endless speculations until someone actually can dig up som "dirt" on this guy.

Perhaps he shouldn't have put it on social media in the first place. Its still on his facebook page by the way so I guess he has no regrets or worries, along with a few more disgusting pics of the same theme. I notice his Thai friends were the ones to start circulating it first

Edited September 2, 2015 by thailandchilli

[catsanddogs]

Not trying to be smarter than the rest but just asking: What is the value of any DNA evidence and retesting if "no proper conditions were observed and recorded in obtaining the samples"?

DNA test results may be basis for conviction only if there is "no way it can be concocted at collection point".

You're probably right. Ms Pontip will certainly address that isse. However, I for one don't want the DNA trail to be deemed completely bolloxed. I hold a quixotic hope that when the B2 are acquitted, that the original prime suspects will be hauled in to court. I admit the chances of that are about 2%, but if that were to happen, DNA would be crucial to that process.

.... if the B2 are guilty I want to see them locked behind bars for a long time. If the court can't prove they are guilty we are back to square one.

And what would "Square One" be? To me, 'square one' connotes going back to the crime scene to try and start all over again, as if the crime just happened and we don't know anything - as if we're starting with a clean slate. But we're not. We (concerned public and RTP and objective investigators) already know quite a bit. At the least, we know where to look, if there are any more clues. Example: look at flight manifests/video to Bkk for that morning. Look at ALL phone activity. Thoroughly search Mon's room, where he does laundry, and same for AC bar tough guys, Mon's cop friend, and Nomsod. If you ask me, it would be about 'Square Fifty' rather than 'Square One.' Sorry if I sound a bit frazzled, but this 'ignoring the 900 pound gorilla in the middle of the room' mentality has been dominating proceedings for nearly a year. It's frustrating, and it's far beyond RTP doing their jobs badly. It's RTP (and forensics and prosecution) purposefully skewing evidence. It stinks, and we're all (well, most us) smelling it.

Well square one or square 50 , what do you think will happen if B2 are set free? Unless someone else step forward with new information this will be a lost case I'm afraid. Maybe hire a private investigator ?

Well at least if either of the families did decide to start their own private investigations they have a few pointers following a years worth of scrutiny by some people on here. They would at least be aware of the Koh Tao characters that they might want to look into first. I could attach some pics but I think everyone who's been passionate about truth and justice in this investigation will know who I'm talking about.

[Harry H]

If I was thay guy on the picture posing ,I would be quite upset actually having to deal with social media gossip .

Yes he could be a bad guy , but maybe just a normal guy, looking tough and posing on pictures.

It will only lead to endless speculations until someone actually can dig up som "dirt" on this guy.

Correct Balo. the B2 conspiracy theorists here have named and shamed so many people is actually quite embarrassing. To be truthfully, at the end of the day, what they say actually makes to difference, no one really cares what they write, there is a bigger picture and they are 0.00001% of this, i.e irrelevant. They think they are making a contribution but in reality nothing, zero, ziltch.

[frank83628]

And more blonde hairs discovered, thank you to AleG for the article he posted above:

Comparing his features to images captured on CCTV, police were able to ascertain that he was one of the three men in the footage.

He had recently dyed his hair black when originally his hair was dyed blond.

Some blond strands of human hair were found at the scene and were kept as evidence. Police are awaiting DNA test results to confirm their case.

http://englishnews.thaipbs.or.th/three-migrant-workers-confess-rape-murder-british-tourists

The "running man" in the CCTV clips has black hair though...

Oh yes, the RTP forgot that crucial part though. They forgot a lot in their perfect investigation

We all know just who the running man is . Put him on the stand and see what happens then.

who's is that exactly? unless I'm complete wrong, all the CCTV footage is from the same people you accuse of doing this, they own everything that end of the beach..hardly think they will give clips of their family members.

[Madaussie]

UPDATE REGARDING THE WITHERIDGES

They are not in the court. This is false reporting from the Samui newspaper.

I have a friend inside the court so I know the truth as I spoke to them on the break.

Thank you for pointing that out.

Some members here actually believe that the family is sitting with the defense team which would be considered weird in any court room .

I guess the family found it safer to follow this from home where they get daily updates and will maybe arrive the court just before the verdict.

Hi I don't think safety is the concern?? they haven't been threatened that was the translators but not the family. Millers are there but Hannah's family aren't. Seeing the pictures of his daughter broke Mr Witheridge senior and son they didn't return. It is still fresh in my mind so god only knows how he is coping. Absolutely heart-breaking

[Madaussie]

 

UPDATE REGARDING THE WITHERIDGES

They are not in the court. This is false reporting from the Samui newspaper.

I have a friend inside the court so I know the truth as I spoke to them on the break.

Thank you for pointing that out.

Some members here actually believe that the family is sitting with the defense team which would be considered weird in any court room .

I guess the family found it safer to follow this from home where they get daily updates and will maybe arrive the court just before the verdict.

I did post earlier in the week that it was stated by the sister of Hannah on their fund raising site that the Witheridge family would be returning to the court for the verdict.

Correct but the last update was 5 months ago. Prior to The fathers breakdown in court. They wrote that at the start of the donation page. I have emailed Laura to see if she needed any more funding to make sure they had enough to get there but no reply at all.

[mark131v]

I have just watched a Sky News report from the trial of the B2 and the Koh Tao murder. The report was about the testimony about one of the B2 ?Zaw Lin and it was concerning his treatment whilst in RTP custody

I am paraphrasing but basically he is alleging he was taken from his cell late at night by 10 men in plain clothes then taken to an house (not a police station) where he was beaten and kicked about

The crux of the report was quite detailed and stated he had a plastic bag put over his head was questioned and beaten, he managed to bite a hole in the first bag to breath at which point they put another bag over the first and continued to beat and kick whilst the interpreter kept asking him to admit he had killed the 2 British

It also mentioned that he was told that if he admitted it then he would only serve 5 or 6 years but that if he didn't then he would be put on a boat taken out to sea and thrown overboard, whether true or not it looks like Thailand is back in the news for all the wrong reasons

Don't know if any other news agencies have picked up on it.

[mark131v]

Other are now picking it up, surprised it is not in the news section as I think a lot of people are interested in this

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/asia/thailand/11838501/Suspect-in-British-backpacker-murder-trial-describes-police-torture.html

sky news

http://news.sky.com/story/1545513/backpacker-murder-suspect-tells-of-torture

The Daily Mail though I don't know if you can open this

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3219592/Bar-worker-claims-admitted-murdering-two-British-backpackers-tortured-police-tied-plastic-bags-head-collapsed.html

In the news for all the wrong reasons again

Edited September 2, 2015 by mark131v

[Lozza]

UPDATE REGARDING THE WITHERIDGES

They are not in the court. This is false reporting from the Samui newspaper.

I have a friend inside the court so I know the truth as I spoke to them on the break.

The Millers are there-verified by Heidi Anna (FBook) who spent some time with them..

[CharlieH]

Please stop discussing individual posters and commenting on who they may or may not be.

You can discuss/debate the topic etc but NOT the poster.

[Linky]

Will the Defence call Nomsod to the stand just for a few questions and put him under oath to say where he was on the night of the murders.

Why would they, his whereabouts has been validated, unless you can confirm otherwise

I am not sure if they have been validated under oath .

No need

Why is there no need?

Police have already said the dna he gave has not been verified, nor even seen.

If it isnt given under oath thpen it is only alleged evidence.

Lets see if he will give evidence under oath and see where it goes.

[Lozza]

Good video, summing up the investigation cockups:

Did the wounds on Miller's head every come up in testimony? They appear to be delivered more so by a shark tooth ring that has been shown on other sites rather than a hoe.

Correct! Wounds were shallow and inflicted by a ray tooth ring or a push dagger. Inflicted by a left hander of equal size to David, not by a dwarf. Think the Burma guys are both right handers. Might point to whom they call "Stingray Man", bouncer at the bar where David and Hannah were part of a "conflict" that included Thais, most likely because one of the Thais started to fondle and/or insult Hannah. This has neven been investigated. Ray Shark man later posed with a hoe for a photo that basically insulted the victims once more. Some posts in other forums said that he was accused of trying to rape a blonde western girl some months before. She was able to jump off the balcony and flee from the apartment where the attack took place. Here he is - a cold blooded and sadistic person as he is described by KT locals in forums and on the street. Even though all this might be referred to as hearsay, I think that it tells a lot about a person's mindset if he proudly poses with a tool similar to the gruesome murder weapon for anyone to see...

this guy is not a bouncer, he's a motor bike mechanic, as for posing for photos, ..although the murders and how they were carried out were horrific you have to realise that not everyone has the same feelings as you lot here do, david & hannah were just tourists/farrangs as far as some (not all) were concerned…. would you all be here with so much passion if it were some thais or burmese that it happened to..i doubt it!…i dont expect many are that interested in the victims of the bombing in bkk..and before anyone jumps in i am merly pointing this out, not condoning it.

GB..you are probably right, most people with a difference of opinion have stopped posting on the thread as nothing changes and within 10 pages of being re-opened its back to personal attacks and removed posts.

and if you were a parent in this position, would you change your mind looking at these thugs.

[Madaussie]

Why is there no need?

Police have already said the dna he gave has not been verified, nor even seen.

If it isnt given under oath thpen it is only alleged evidence.

Lets see if he will give evidence under oath and see where it goes.

There's more chance the moon falls out the sky than he ever takes the stand.

Some things you have to accept I think that it may never be solved. There's possibly enough tainting of evidence as to be unable to get a guilty decision for any person. The whole procedure was a mess. You would have to have witness's who would stand and give evidence. If you know 5% about Thailand you will know that will never be possible.

The most anyone can hope for is if the B2 are not guilty for them to walk. that's it. That in itself would be a victory for justice. The rest well forget it. Its never going to happen IMHO.

[Linky]

If I was thay guy on the picture posing ,I would be quite upset actually having to deal with social media gossip .

Yes he could be a bad guy , but maybe just a normal guy, looking tough and posing on pictures.

It will only lead to endless speculations until someone actually can dig up som "dirt" on this guy.

Correct Balo. the B2 conspiracy theorists here have named and shamed so many people is actually quite embarrassing. To be truthfully, at the end of the day, what they say actually makes to difference, no one really cares what they write, there is a bigger picture and they are 0.00001% of this, i.e irrelevant. They think they are making a contribution but in reality nothing, zero, ziltch.

I suppose it is difficult for you to understand that until the B2 are found guilty then the prosecution case is what is considered a conspiracy.

But that may ne too much for you.

Edited September 2, 2015 by Linky

[Basil B]

Telegraph report says that after Win was stripped, blindfolded, beaten, told that his body would be dumped at sea,

he was told if he confessed that he would just go to prison for four or five years. And he had plastic bags on his head for the duration.

I am inclined to believe his statement. I sincerely hope that everyone who pays their fiver via direct debit to Amnesty

International every month will demand answers as to why they were not able to intervene when the B2 first retracted their confessions and spoke of

their torture. Disgusted.

I am of the opinion that either he has been coached well... or it actually happened as he said.

My view is he has a good defence team who know that to put him up to it would be disastrous as they both will be cross examined in detail, my bet is they have been advised well, to tell the truth as they will be vigorously cross-examined.