Filing American Taxes with Foreign Spouse (Non Resident Alien)

[flyingsaucersarereal]

Ok so I recently got married to a Thai woman and am wondering the best way of filing my American taxes from Thailand.

I read that because she doesn't have a itin number or a SSN I am not able to efile.

So what is the best option for this? Do I just mail everything in? If so what mail service would I use and how safe is that?

Also is there anyway to get around this and file online?

Thanks

Edited August 21, 2015 by flyingsaucersarereal

[metisdead]

Moving to Home Country forum.

[Spaniel]

Why don't you apply for a ITIN (Individual Taxpayer Identification Number) for your wife? The form you need is a W-7. You can go to the IRS site for details.

[Stradavarius37]

Best wishes

Edited August 22, 2015 by Stradavarius37

[Langsuan Man]

You can still file without her having a TIN , but you will have to file single. She can only be a dependent with a TIN so if you want to take advantage of the "benefit" of filing married then you will have to obtain a TIN for her as suggested in post #3

[Royrex]

In april I had to mail my return ( with the W7 and thai wife passport) to a special address in Texas(I think), about six weeks later got her passport back, maybe a month later got her itin number. now next year taxes, I think I can do online using the same itin number. FYI, I also filed an amend prior year taxes at the same time.

ps, Next year I'm thinking of adding her parents as my dependents.

Edited August 24, 2015 by Royrex

[gk10002000]

In april I had to mail my return ( with the W7 and thai wife passport) to a special address in Texas(I think), about six weeks later got her passport back, maybe a month later got her itin number. now next year taxes, I think I can do online using the same itin number. FYI, I also filed an amend prior year taxes at the same time.

ps, Next year I'm thinking of adding her parents as my dependents.

Now I like the dependents idea. Factually, there is a fair chance many Farangs are providing more than 50% of their in-law's support. Many certainly are doing that monetarily. The trick might be how to document the support sufficiently for the IRS, since they look at more than just documented income.

[lopburi3]

You apply for an ITIN at the same time you file your income tax under the current regulations. So you file as married joint return and attach a signed statement that spouse agrees to paying US tax as outlined in IRS instructions and include the ITIN application. Information is available on internet with Google search as many do this.

[lopburi3]

In april I had to mail my return ( with the W7 and thai wife passport) to a special address in Texas(I think), about six weeks later got her passport back, maybe a month later got her itin number. now next year taxes, I think I can do online using the same itin number. FYI, I also filed an amend prior year taxes at the same time.

ps, Next year I'm thinking of adding her parents as my dependents.

Now I like the dependents idea. Factually, there is a fair chance many Farangs are providing more than 50% of their in-law's support. Many certainly are doing that monetarily. The trick might be how to document the support sufficiently for the IRS, since they look at more than just documented income.

Check that - believe dependents must be citizens or living in US under current laws (but it has been several decades since I checked).

[Rocketsurgeon]

I don't have a number for the wife and filed 3x back taxes. Filed jointly but did not list her as dependant nor take deduction for her. I don't want to screw around with taxid. Going back is closer than ever and if we don't, the less she's involved with us tax system the better.

I'm largely tax defered, no need to worryabout taxes till 60.

Taxes were dent to US to be remailed a few days ago. Wait and see....

Edited August 25, 2015 by Rocketsurgeon

[Smokin Joe]

First thing you should do is get the W-7 from the IRS web site and read the instructions.

When sending the Form W-7 you will need to send her ID. You have a couple of options in the instructions. You can send original ID as one option and they will return it. The best option, in my opinion, is to get a certified copy of her passport.

The US embassy used to be able to do this but no longer does it for foreign documents. You would need to get her passport copy certified by the Ministry of Foreign Affairs (MFA). You can do it your self but most offices that do translations could have it done for you also.

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

I got an ITIN number for my Thai wife in the past couple months.

You need the ITIN if you want to claim a personal exemption for your Thai wife, which knocks off about $4000 from your taxable income amount as a U.S. citizen filer. I did that this year under the married, filing separate filing status. To qualify for the exemption, the wife has to have NO/ZERO U.S. source income, which is probably not a problem for most Thai citizen wives living in Thailand.

Claiming the wife as an exemption of your own tax filing is entirely different than claiming a wife as a dependent. AFAIK, a Thai citizen wife living in Thailand cannot be claimed as a dependent by a U.S. citizen filer.

As noted above, the process to apply for an ITIN for a Thai wife is to file the W-7 paperwork along with your own U.S. tax filing where you're going to claim her as a personal exemption for the first time. Because the W-7 filing can only be done as paperwork, not online, your own tax filing for that cycle has to be done by paper/mail. Once she's received the ITIN, your future tax filings in later years can be done electronically again.

As far as documentation required by the IRS for the Thai wife, all you really need, along with the W-7 form, is a copy of her Thai passport facepage that's been certified by the Thai Ministry of Foreign Affairs. If she doesn't have or doesn't want to get a Thai passport, then there are alternate ID methods allowed, but those involve two different forms of ID being required.

There are some prior ITIN threads talking about some involvement being required by the U.S. Consulate in BKK, but that's no longer the case when using the wife's Thai passport as her form of ITIN ID. Only the Thai MFA has to certify an official copy of your Thai wife's Thai passport. The U.S. Consulate doesn't have anything to do with that process. The IRS will accept the MFA certified passport copy, since it's the Thai MFA that originally issued the passport.

In my case, it took the IRS about a month to issue my wife's ITIN from the time they received my paperwork in the mail. And then, another month after that before they processed my own tax return and issued the refund I had coming. Obviously, when submitting your tax return and ITIN paperwork by postal mail, you want to send it securely and with some form of postal tracking.

BTW, AFAIK, a U.S. citizen living in Thailand with a Thai citizen wife has the choice of filing their U.S. tax return as either a] married filing separately or b] married filing jointly. In either case, the U.S. citizen is still eligible to claim the Thai wife as a personal exemption on their tax return.

The difference is, married filing separately means any income earned by your Thai wife in Thailand does not fall under the U.S. taxation system. Married filing jointly puts your Thai wife's Thai-source income under the U.S. taxation system, although there are offsets and tax credits that alleviate the impact of that, since presumably she's already liable for Thai income taxation.

Re the OP's original question, he can efile his taxes whether he chooses married filing separately or married filing jointly. The only time he would not be able to efile would be if/when the one year he's submitting an ITIN application on behalf of his Thai wife.

I don't know of any reason why a U.S. citizen living in Thailand with a Thai citizen wife would NOT want to claim the personal exemption on their own taxes for the wife. It makes for a nice savings, and I know of no downside to claiming that additional exemption.

Edited August 26, 2015 by TallGuyJohninBKK

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

She can only be a dependent with a TIN so if you want to take advantage of the "benefit" of filing married then you will have to obtain a TIN for her as suggested in post #3

I don't think that's correct, LSM...

I think you're meaning to talk about claiming the Thai wife as a personal exemption -- not as a dependent. Thai wives of U.S. citizens living in Thailand cannot be claimed as dependents under IRS rules, AFAIK.

Also, the OP, once married, would not typically be filing single. He'd typically choose between married filing jointly vs. married filing separately -- either of which would allow him to claim his wife as an additional personal exemption on his own tax filing.

If he was legally married and still filed his taxes under single status, I'd presume, he'd be unable to claim his Thai wife as an extra personal exemption, which would be throwing away a significant tax savings.

[CWMcMurray]

I got an ITIN number for my Thai wife in the past couple months.

I don't know of any reason why a U.S. citizen living in Thailand with a Thai citizen wife would NOT want to claim the personal exemption on their own taxes for the wife. It makes for a nice savings, and I know of no downside to claiming that additional exemption.

I have one....

In the case that the U.S. Citizen has no income or assets in the U.S.

The U.S. Citizen works in Thailand, so can use the overseas earned income exemption and investments in Thailand under wife's name...

So no taxes owed to Uncle Sam ..,

So no reason to bring wife into the view of Uncle Sam's view.... As no benefit in getting an ITIN

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

ps, Next year I'm thinking of adding her parents as my dependents.

Now I like the dependents idea. Factually, there is a fair chance many Farangs are providing more than 50% of their in-law's support. Many certainly are doing that monetarily. The trick might be how to document the support sufficiently for the IRS, since they look at more than just documented income.

Check that - believe dependents must be citizens or living in US under current laws (but it has been several decades since I checked).

When I researched the issue earlier this year, that was what I found also.

I don't know of any way that a U.S. citizen with a Thai citizen wife living in Thailand (who has no U.S. residency or citizenship status) can claim her (or any of her family) as DEPENDENTS, regardless of how much financial support he's providing to them.

To qualify as dependents under IRS rules, the family has to be living in the U.S., and/or have some other situations that don't apply to expats with non U.S. citizen/resident Thai wives living in Thailand.

Edited August 26, 2015 by TallGuyJohninBKK

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

TurboTax:

There are two types of dependents, each subject to different rules:

• A qualifying child
• A qualifying relative

For both types of dependents, you’ll need to answer the following questions to determine if you can claim them.

• Are they a citizen or resident? The person must be a U.S. citizen, a U.S. national, a U.S. resident, or a resident of Canada or Mexico. Many people wonder if they can claim a foreign-exchange student who temporarily lives with them. The answer is maybe, but only if they meet this requirement.
• Are you the only person claiming them as a dependent? You can’t claim someone who takes a personal exemption for himself or claims another dependent on his own tax form.
• Are they filing a joint return? You cannot claim someone who is married and files a joint tax return. Say you support your married teenaged son: If he files a joint return with his spouse, you can’t claim him as a dependent.

https://turbotax.intuit.com/tax-tools/tax-tips/Family/Rules-for-Claiming-a-Dependent-on-Your-Tax-Return/INF12139.html

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

I got an ITIN number for my Thai wife in the past couple months.

I don't know of any reason why a U.S. citizen living in Thailand with a Thai citizen wife would NOT want to claim the personal exemption on their own taxes for the wife. It makes for a nice savings, and I know of no downside to claiming that additional exemption.

I have one....

In the case that the U.S. Citizen has no income or assets in the U.S.

The U.S. Citizen works in Thailand, so can use the overseas earned income exemption and investments in Thailand under wife's name...

So no taxes owed to Uncle Sam ..,

So no reason to bring wife into the view of Uncle Sam's view.... As no benefit in getting an ITIN

You can claim the Thai wife as a personal exemption under your own tax filing, even if you're filing married, filing separately status. Under MFS, even with you claiming the wife as an added exemption on your own filing, any non-U.S. income of the Thai wife does not fall under IRS jurisdiction at all.

Everyone has their own individual circumstances. But being relatively newly married, this past year, I modeled my U.S. taxes under both MFS and MFJ statuses, with my Thai wife earning a moderate income here. Even with her moderate income, I found doing a married filing jointly return next year should not increase my tax obligation vs married filing separately. I presume that's because she's getting credit for the fact she's already paying income taxes on her Thai income into the Thai tax system.

Edited August 26, 2015 by TallGuyJohninBKK

[bunnydrops]

I got one for my wife when I was still working there. They only wanted her passport and the form, no proof of marriage at all. Since I did not have her TIN number when I did my taxes, I put "applied for" in the space and added a copy of the stamped request form. The next year after I received the number, I tried to use an online service to do my taxes, but the first ( I don't remember which one, but believe it was Intuit)) would not except the TIN number and ended up mailing. The year after that I used an online service (again, don't remember off hand) without any problems. As for it being legal to write off your Thai wife living in Thailand as a dependent, I also had heard that you can not do that anymore--- but I have been doing it for a number of years.

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

I too kind of thought it was curious that in the ITIN process, there was nothing required to show proof of the marriage. But then again, if you went from single to married filing status in the States, the IRS doesn't ask to prove your marriage either.

As you said, just the W-7 application form and an MFA certified copy of the Thai wife's passport, or the original passport if you want to be daring. I was surprised this year, that the IRS actually return mailed the MFA certified passport copy that we sent them. I wasn't expecting to get the copy back, but it was nice of them that they did return it.

[Langsuan Man]

I know that there was some type of IRS stimulus package several years ago that you could only claim if your wife had an ITN but several friends reported that even with the ITN their Thai wives did not qualify

Since I was not married it did not effect me but I did hear a lot of grousing about it

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

Well, according to the IRS rules--for a Thai wife living in Thailand with no U.S. status who is married to a U.S. citizen:

--yes, you can claim her as an additional personal exemption, assuming she has no U.S. source income.

--no, you can't claim her as a dependent, period, because she doesn't meet the required criteria.

Whether folks can file returns that claim their wives here as dependents and get away with it, I couldn't say.

[lopburi3]

Well, according to the IRS rules--for a Thai wife living in Thailand with no U.S. status who is married to a U.S. citizen:

--yes, you can claim her as an additional personal exemption, assuming she has no U.S. source income.

--no, you can't claim her as a dependent, period, because she doesn't meet the required criteria.

Whether folks can file returns that claim their wives here as dependents and get away with it, I couldn't say.

I suspect some may take the personal exemption deduction as being because they are a dependent rather than actually declaring as dependent. Kind of like visas and extensions terminology.

[maphraw]

From reading these posts, I can conclude that even if I am filing a joint account with my Thai wife, who has an ITIN number, and she inherits $200,000, or wins 3,000,000 baht in the Thai lottery, or buys a piece of land for 1,000,000 baht and sells it for 3,000,000 baht, we do not have to claim any of that money on my US tax return because she is not a US citizen and its her money. But since we have joint bank accounts, it will look suspicious on my FBAR when reporting sudden increases in out bank accounts. Lesson to be learned perhaps, is always be sure your Thai wife as her own bank account in the event that she comes into some big bucks. And include her bank account in your will.In the event of her death, you can then deal with the IRS. And if you do not file a joint account with your Thai wife, then you do not have to report any of her money on your FBAR or to the IRS. I am wondering if the Thai banks are required to report your Thai wife's bank interest or stock capital gains and dividends to the Treasury Department if the accounts are't jointly owned.

[taxout]

"From reading these posts, I can conclude that even if I am filing a joint account with my Thai wife, who has an ITIN number, and she inherits $200,000, or wins 3,000,000 baht in the Thai lottery, or buys a piece of land for 1,000,000 baht and sells it for 3,000,000 baht, we do not have to claim any of that money on my US tax return because she is not a US citizen and its her money."

That's just wrong.

This is an important and potentially expensive issue, and you shouldn't be relying on the offhand tax advice of strangers here. Get some professional advice.

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

From reading these posts, I can conclude that even if I am filing a joint account with my Thai wife, who has an ITIN number, and she inherits $200,000, or wins 3,000,000 baht in the Thai lottery, or buys a piece of land for 1,000,000 baht and sells it for 3,000,000 baht, we do not have to claim any of that money on my US tax return because she is not a US citizen and its her money. But since we have joint bank accounts, it will look suspicious on my FBAR when reporting sudden increases in out bank accounts. Lesson to be learned perhaps, is always be sure your Thai wife as her own bank account in the event that she comes into some big bucks. And include her bank account in your will.In the event of her death, you can then deal with the IRS. And if you do not file a joint account with your Thai wife, then you do not have to report any of her money on your FBAR or to the IRS. I am wondering if the Thai banks are required to report your Thai wife's bank interest or stock capital gains and dividends to the Treasury Department if the accounts are't jointly owned.

If you're married to a Thai citizen, living FT in Thailand, and you choose the "married filing separate" option for your tax return, then your wife's Thai income/financials remain outside of the U.S. tax system. But you get taxed at essentially the higher single filer rate.

If you're married to a Thai citizen, living FT in Thailand, and you choose the "married filing jointly" option for your tax return, then your wife's Thai income/financials become subject to the U.S. tax system, along with your own. But you're taxed at the lower married rate and have various other advantages.

An American married to a foreign citizen living abroad gets to choose which method to use for their federal tax filing. Which is the best route to go depends a lot of whether the foreign wife has little income/no individual income or potentially has a lot.

You're talking about filing accounts. I don't know what that means. Are you talking about filing your tax returns?

[lopburi3]

The key clause is:

You must file a joint income tax return for the year you make the choice (but you and your spouse can file joint or separate returns in later years).

If the foreign spouse wins the local lottery you might want to change to separate returns.

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

I'm doing this from memory, so I'm hoping my memory is correct:

Re the decision to file a married joint return with a foreign non-U.S. resident alien (NRA) spouse, I believe you only get to make that choice once with any particular spouse.

So, someone can always file married filing separate (MFS) if you want. But if you choose to file married filing jointly (MFJ) with a foreign NRA spouse, you can change that back to married filing separately in later years if you desire. But assuming you're still married to the same foreign NRA, you can't go back again later and change back to MFJ.

[lopburi3]

That was my memory also - but that is not what it says above which is from the official web site. You have a choice except for the first year.

Dated Dec 16, 2014 so it may be a change or clarification.

http://www.irs.gov/Individuals/International-Taxpayers/Nonresident-Spouse-Treated-as-a-Resident

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

Here's the language on a companion IRS page that I was recalling:

Ending the Choice

Once made, the choice to be treated as a resident applies to all later years unless suspended (as explained above) or ended in one of the ways shown below. If the choice is ended for any of the reasons listed below, neither spouse can make a choice in any later tax year.

• Revocation by either spouse
• Death of either spouse
• Legal Separation
• Inadequate records

http://www.irs.gov/Individuals/International-Taxpayers/U.S.-Citizens-and-Resident-Aliens-Abroad---Nonresident-Alien-Spouse

Edited October 1, 2015 by TallGuyJohninBKK

[maphraw]

Sorry about the confusion. I meant filing our joint accounts with the IRS, which I have been doing for the last ten years. On another topic, if someone decides to choose the 'married filing separate' status, I can envision lots of people putting their earned income in their wife's account and living off that money without ever reporting it to the IRS. I mean, if the amount of money was substantial. For example, suppose I file 'married filing separate' and I pass the 'Physical Presence Test' (Form 2555) but make $150,000 in Thailand on the side, I could deposit it in my wife's account and the IRS would never be the wiser and I could live off that money without paying any US taxes. Provided, of course, my wife was in full agreement with this strategy. I am just wondering about this. I do not plan on doing it but I'm just just curious.