British tourists routinely ripped-off in currency conversion scam

[Skeptic7]

What's wrong with using local currency...?.....using credit cards for food and minor purchases while overseas, is crazy!

Not always...

There are credit card companies in the USA, Capital One for example, that charge NO foreign transaction fees on purchases made outside the US. Cap1 gives an exchange rate much better than any of the banks or Currency Exchange venues, including Vasu in BKK and TT in Pattaya. Their rate is VERY near the market exchange rate! Not only this, but also has a Rewards Program that pays 1.5% cash back on ALL purchases...foreign and domestic + gives a 30-day grace period with zero finance charges as long as the entire balance is paid by the due date each month.

It's a FANTASTIC deal and I use my Quicksilver Card for ALL purchases EVERYWHERE, providing the vendor doesn't tack on a charge card fee of their own. Quicksilver gives cash back just to use the card and as long as the balance is paid in full by the due date every month, you actually make money charging instead of using cash or debit cards.

[stevenl]

All nice those fee free cards. Nothing to do with the subject though, with DCC the exchange rate is set by the transaction bank, here the Thai bank, so no fees etc are openly charged, only hidden.

[Skeptic7]

All nice those fee free cards. Nothing to do with the subject though, with DCC the exchange rate is set by the transaction bank, here the Thai bank, so no fees etc are openly charged, only hidden.

JEEZ...I spelled it out line by line...step by step. The only thing I didn't do was draw a picture! Either you didn't read the comment I was responding to or you didn't understand it. Regardless, you are W-R-O-N-G. Did ya get that one? Edited August 26, 2015 by Skeptic7

[stevenl]

All nice those fee free cards. Nothing to do with the subject though, with DCC the exchange rate is set by the transaction bank, here the Thai bank, so no fees etc are openly charged, only hidden.

JEEZ...I spelled it out line by line...step by step. The only thing I didn't do was draw a picture! Either you didn't read the comment I was responding to or you didn't understand it. Regardless, you are W-R-O-N-G. Did ya get that one?

So it does not work for you like this: you pay with credit card or withdraw by ATM, get a notrice on screen or cc print in your currency and see how much it is, and that is the amount deducted from your bank account or charged to your credit card? So no additional expenses/costs.

If I'm wrong, please do correct.

Edited August 26, 2015 by stevenl

[PHP87]

What is crazy is carrying large amounts of cash.. My credit card has no international transaction fee and my bank pays for all ATM fees.. You guys need to shop around for Banks and credit cards ...

'... my bank pays for all ATM fees.' It does? Do share.

Schwabb Bank. They promise to refund all Bank fees. only available to Yanks.

New Yorkers only?

[KCM]

All nice those fee free cards. Nothing to do with the subject though, with DCC the exchange rate is set by the transaction bank, here the Thai bank, so no fees etc are openly charged, only hidden.

JEEZ...I spelled it out line by line...step by step. The only thing I didn't do was draw a picture! Either you didn't read the comment I was responding to or you didn't understand it. Regardless, you are W-R-O-N-G. Did ya get that one?

So it does not work for you like this: you pay with credit card or withdraw by ATM, get a notrice on screen or cc print in your currency and see how much it is, and that is the amount deducted from your bank account or charged to your credit card? So no additional expenses/costs.

If I'm wrong, please do correct.

As an example of how this works and why Thai banks push their merchants to get customers to use it, I'll use the purchase I made this week that I referenced in an earlier post on this thread.

Purchase price 3,760 baht

sales clerk printed out from credit card terminal showing $109.87 if paying in home currency

I declined this and paid 3,760 baht - this amount ended up being $105.73 on my credit card statement

If I would have chosen to pay in dollars, Kasikorn Bank would have collected $109.87 (minus a small fee) from Chase (my credit card issuer), and they would have paid the vendor 3,760 baht (minus around 2% fee). Since Kasikorn Bank is collecting $109.87 and only paying the vendor an equivalent in baht of $105.73, they are keeping an additional $4.14 or 147 baht.

[stevenl]

All nice those fee free cards. Nothing to do with the subject though, with DCC the exchange rate is set by the transaction bank, here the Thai bank, so no fees etc are openly charged, only hidden.

JEEZ...I spelled it out line by line...step by step. The only thing I didn't do was draw a picture! Either you didn't read the comment I was responding to or you didn't understand it. Regardless, you are W-R-O-N-G. Did ya get that one?

So it does not work for you like this: you pay with credit card or withdraw by ATM, get a notrice on screen or cc print in your currency and see how much it is, and that is the amount deducted from your bank account or charged to your credit card? So no additional expenses/costs.

If I'm wrong, please do correct.

As an example of how this works and why Thai banks push their merchants to get customers to use it, I'll use the purchase I made this week that I referenced in an earlier post on this thread.

Purchase price 3,760 baht

sales clerk printed out from credit card terminal showing $109.87 if paying in home currency

I declined this and paid 3,760 baht - this amount ended up being $105.73 on my credit card statement

If I would have chosen to pay in dollars, Kasikorn Bank would have collected $109.87 (minus a small fee) from Chase (my credit card issuer), and they would have paid the vendor 3,760 baht (minus around 2% fee). Since Kasikorn Bank is collecting $109.87 and only paying the vendor an equivalent in baht of $105.73, they are keeping an additional $4.14 or 147 baht.

Exactly. You declined the DCC scam. Now if you would not have done that, you would have paid the higher price, for which your bank would not have refunded you.

So as I said earlier: "A fee free card has nothing to do with the subject though, with DCC the exchange rate is set by the transaction bank, here the Thai bank, so no fees etc are openly charged, only hidden." Fees charged by banks, home and away, for standard payments are not the issue here, DCC is.

Edited August 26, 2015 by stevenl

[Skeptic7]

All nice those fee free cards. Nothing to do with the subject though, with DCC the exchange rate is set by the transaction bank, here the Thai bank, so no fees etc are openly charged, only hidden.

JEEZ...I spelled it out line by line...step by step. The only thing I didn't do was draw a picture! Either you didn't read the comment I was responding to or you didn't understand it. Regardless, you are W-R-O-N-G. Did ya get that one?

So it does not work for you like this: you pay with credit card or withdraw by ATM, get a notrice on screen or cc print in your currency and see how much it is, and that is the amount deducted from your bank account or charged to your credit card? So no additional expenses/costs.

If I'm wrong, please do correct.

OK...trying this one more time. All credit card purchases made abroad are in the local currency. I specifically tell them...Baht, Yen, Pesos, etc...NOT US dollars, thus avoiding the DCC. I NEVER use a credit card in an ATM (EVER...ANYWHERE), nor do I ever take out a cash advance. Not only that, but I've never paid an ATM fee anywhere...EVER. I flat out refuse. Thailand ATMS fees are egregious and a RIPOFF. But i digress...

All that said, you have mentioned a couple times this is . I disagree, but even if it is slightly off topic, it's not like that's unusual. Most topics go off on related tangents (as this one did) and some go totally off the rails. Regardless, it's important to READ the quoted text, THEN the response...and then form your reply. Otherwise there is no sense in using the "Quote" feature. Now here's the part I'm assuming you missed; the post I responded to was someone stating that using a CC instead of cash was crazy and here's the quote...

"What's wrong with using local currency...?.....using credit cards for food and minor purchases while overseas, is crazy!"

Which is when i THOROUGHLY explained how it's not crazy at all and can not only save money, but actually MAKE money. Hopefully this is crystal clear now...

[stevenl]

All nice those fee free cards. Nothing to do with the subject though, with DCC the exchange rate is set by the transaction bank, here the Thai bank, so no fees etc are openly charged, only hidden.

JEEZ...I spelled it out line by line...step by step. The only thing I didn't do was draw a picture! Either you didn't read the comment I was responding to or you didn't understand it. Regardless, you are W-R-O-N-G. Did ya get that one?

So it does not work for you like this: you pay with credit card or withdraw by ATM, get a notrice on screen or cc print in your currency and see how much it is, and that is the amount deducted from your bank account or charged to your credit card? So no additional expenses/costs.

If I'm wrong, please do correct.

OK...trying this one more time. All credit card purchases made abroad are in the local currency. I specifically tell them...Baht, Yen, Pesos, etc...NOT US dollars, thus avoiding the DCC. I NEVER use a credit card in an ATM (EVER...ANYWHERE), nor do I ever take out a cash advance. Not only that, but I've never paid an ATM fee anywhere...EVER. I flat out refuse. Thailand ATMS fees are egregious and a RIPOFF. But i digress...

All that said, you have mentioned a couple times this is . I disagree, but even if it is slightly off topic, it's not like that's unusual. Most topics go off on related tangents (as this one did) and some go totally off the rails. Regardless, it's important to READ the quoted text, THEN the response...and then form your reply. Otherwise there is no sense in using the "Quote" feature. Now here's the part I'm assuming you missed; the post I responded to was someone stating that using a CC instead of cash was crazy and here's the quote...

"What's wrong with using local currency...?.....using credit cards for food and minor purchases while overseas, is crazy!"

Which is when i THOROUGHLY explained how it's not crazy at all and can not only save money, but actually MAKE money. Hopefully this is crystal clear now...

Good, we agree.

Just a pity you felt the need to correct me, especially with an attitude.

Looking forward to hear where I was wrong.

Edited August 26, 2015 by stevenl

[meltingpot2015]

What is crazy is carrying large amounts of cash.. My credit card has no international transaction fee and my bank pays for all ATM fees.. You guys need to shop around for Banks and credit cards ...

'... my bank pays for all ATM fees.' It does? Do share.

Schwabb Bank. They promise to refund all Bank fees. only available to Yanks.

New Yorkers only?

If you are american, Yank could mean someone in New York and other Northern States, but Brits call all Americans yanks. Kinda like Aussies calling Brits Poms.

I meant its available to all U.S people.

[meltingpot2015]

The link attached to the OP says:

A spokesman for the UK Cards Association says: 'If DCC is used without your permission, you should remind the retailer that you didn't want them to use DCC and ask for the receipt to be voided.'

How about the chip-and-pin terminal showing if the retailer is putting the transaction through DCC before you enter your PIN or sign any receipt (most countries you cannot sign if chip and PIn terminal is used). That way you don't have to "ask for the receipt to be voided." You ask the retailer to put it through again, but this time selecting local currency. No PIN has been entered yet, so no need for voiding receipt.

For those that may like to pay using DCC, how about showing the exact DCC amount before they select DCC or local currency. For those preferring to pay by local currency: If the exact DCC amount is shown on terminal then its a sure sign that the retailer is putting it through DCC, in which case you ask them to void it before you enter the PIN. therefore no receipt need to be voided.

Edited August 26, 2015 by meltingpot2015

[meltingpot2015]

Bit more info about this scam:

http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/credit-card-programs/1542983-dynamic-currency-conversion-dcc-master-thread.html

http://www.fodors.com/community/europe/they-just-dont-read-or-listen-about-dcc-scam.cfm

The link above is talking about:

Some hotel chains, supposedly reputable have a new trick up their sleeves. When they pressure you at check in to sign the check in slip, they slip in, as do some car rental companies, a statement that you agree to pay in your currency and even if you notice at check out that they're trying to pull the dcc scam on you, they clam it's too late. You've already agreed to be scammed (notorious for some car rental agencies where the acceptance of dcc is made part of the contract and when you check out, they write the bill up in local currency but still submit it as a dcc transaction. Be aware of what you sign.

Surely you cannot be expected to read the small print?, especially bad news for the elderly. I reckon you should be able to challenge this with your bank if the hotel/rental company has tailored an agreement with DCC "built-in".

Following-up on my post #41. I reckon the receipt(s) should look like below:

the receipt on the left - before you enter your PIN, showing the exact local currency amount and the DCC currency amount.

Then you tick which one you like to pay in. Select the same on the Chip-and-pin terminal. Enter your PIN. Another receipt slip (one on the right) shows which one you selected. DCC or Local currency. Mostly it will be local currency.

Edited August 27, 2015 by meltingpot2015