Prom Immigration: Some Realism, Please

[Duvidl]

I got my extension last week and I was asked by the visa agent to provide a rental contract.

[fang37]

When you are living in your lady's house on her mother's land, a TM 8 is required?

[chiang mai]

When you are living in your lady's house on her mother's land, a TM 8 is required?

A re-entry permit! Only needed if the MIL doesn't trust you I guess.

[fang37]

When you are living in your lady's house on her mother's land, a TM 8 is required?

A re-entry permit! Only needed if the MIL doesn't trust you I guess.

I punted on TM8.

What form is used for my original statement? Who completes it? Supplementary documents for CNX I/O?

[elgordo38]

A rental contract, a lease or other proof of residence, oddly enough these things are not required when using an agent for retirement visa extension.

Hmm should be telling us something?

[elektrified]

A rental contract, a lease or other proof of residence, oddly enough these things are not required when using an agent for retirement visa extension.

They are not required from everyone doing it themselves either, not me nor anybody I know has been asked for that information, ever.

I've been asked every year for about 5 years now.

[elektrified]

No word from Greenside. Hope he's not still there!

[Greenside]

This afternoon, I returned at 1:00pm and they started calling the numbers from 11 up. I had my interview (not really an interview - just paperwork checked and stamped) at 1:15 and it was efficient and over in about 10 minutes.. I must say that being in a quiet, decently air conditioned office is a welcome improvement over the facility out at the airport. I was asked to come back at 4:00 to collect my passport. When I returned just before 4:00 I found that actually the passports had been available since about 3:20 but no-one outside the office knew. In any event it was well in time for my purpose, so a good result.

My overall conclusion:

Other than the ridiculously early start required to get a queue number it was pretty efficient and more pleasant than the airport office in almost every way. The coffee stall serves good coffee, there are a lot of places to sit once you've got your number and parking is plentiful and easy although those without transport are clearly at a disadvantage. I was expecting it to be truly a grim ordeal and it wasn't.

That said, there are some obvious improvements, some very simple, that would make life easier all round:

• They really need some queue number boards as often the PA is not easily heard. Being able to see which number is being processed reduces the anxiety level of those waiting much in the same way that the traffic signal countdowns allow you to know just how long it will be before the guy in front of you jumps the lights.
• The staff at the information desk should be aware when the signed Retirement Extension passports are ready for collection. I wasted some time standing around before venturing inside (against the rules, I know) to find mine had been sitting there for over half an hour. If they want to keep the office free of people standing around to ask questions they should use the desk staff outside better.
• The crux of the matter is that there are too few staff to handle the workload of Retirement Extensions (at least).
• The online appointment and 90 day report systems need to be fixed so they are reliable and consistently available.
• Signs explaining the 90 Day Report by mail system should be introduced and the Information Desk could have a checklist with instructions so people can take a copy and remember the details when its time for their next report.
• A box for dropping 90 Day reports as an alternative to mailing them should also be made available.

Agents... If nothing changes there will shortly come a time when you'll have to use an agent or literally camp out at Promenada all night. The people providing this service have discovered a cash cow and one can hardly blame them for milking it for all it's worth, but if it comes to the point where customers have little or no choice other than to hire one then it seems likely to me that we will regret it. 13 out of the first 19 numbers in this morning's Retirement Visa line were taken mostly by young people (the first of which arrived just after 4:00 AM) who looked like students and simply sat there until shortly before the numbers were called at 8:30 and the Agents with the paperwork arrived. I was told (by an agent) that the rule is one number per person queuing, but since I was eleventh in line and received number 12, I suspect that "regulars" (and that's not us) can push the envelope a little. If the Immigration Office staffing level remains the same then it could be just a few weeks before going to get your own won't be feasible unless you're prepared to sleep there.

You also have to wonder what kind of relationship the G4T Agency next to the photocopy shop has managed to set up. How can they offer a walk in late, same day service without it being at the expense of regular extension applicants, or other agents, for that matter? The temptation to pay a couple of kids a few hundred baht to sit around and play with their phones for three or four hours to get a number on spec for a walk in customer who will give you a couple of grand, must be hard to resist. Doesn't that come pretty close to scalping?

You may choose to use an Agent now but how will you feel if you have no option and the price is double in a couple of years? If the processing rate beyond the booked appointments remains unable to meet demand I'm sure there are going to be some problems to face before very long. Perhaps one way forward would be for the agents to fund the salary of an additional Immigration Officer to deal with their clients applications - that would enable them to offer an added value service without making it harder for others to apply themselves. Just a thought....

Edited August 25, 2015 by Greenside

[circusman]

This afternoon, I returned at 1:00pm and they started calling the numbers from 11 up. I had my interview (not really an interview - just paperwork checked and stamped) at 1:15 and it was efficient and over in about 10 minutes.. I must say that being in a quiet, decently air conditioned office is a welcome improvement over the facility out at the airport. I was asked to come back at 4:00 to collect my passport. When I returned just before 4:00 I found that actually the passports had been available since about 3:20 but no-one outside the office knew. In any event it was well in time for my purpose, so a good result.

My overall conclusion:

Other than the ridiculously early start required to get a queue number it was pretty efficient and more pleasant than the airport office in almost every way. The coffee stall serves good coffee, there are a lot of places to sit once you've got your number and parking is plentiful and easy although those without transport are clearly at a disadvantage. I was expecting it to be truly a grim ordeal and it wasn't.

That said, there are some obvious improvements, some very simple, that would make life easier all round:

• They really need some queue number boards as often the PA is not easily heard. Being able to see which number is being processed reduces the anxiety level of those waiting much in the same way that the traffic signal countdowns allow you to know just how long it will be before the guy in front of you jumps the lights.
• The staff at the information desk should be aware when the signed Retirement Extension passports are ready for collection. I wasted some time standing around before venturing inside (against the rules, I know) to find mine had been sitting there for over half an hour. If they want to keep the office free of people standing around to ask questions they should use the desk staff outside better.
• The crux of the matter is that there are too few staff to handle the workload of Retirement Extensions (at least).
• The online appointment and 90 day report systems need to be fixed so they are reliable and consistently available.
• Signs explaining the 90 Day Report by mail system should be introduced and the Information Desk could have a checklist with instructions so people can take a copy and remember the details when its time for their next report.
• A box for dropping 90 Day reports as an alternative to mailing them should also be made available.

Agents... If nothing changes there will shortly come a time when you'll have to use an agent or literally camp out at Promenada all night. The people providing this service have discovered a cash cow and one can hardly blame them for milking it for all it's worth, but if it comes to the point where customers have little or no choice other than to hire one then it seems likely to me that we will regret it. 13 out of the first 19 numbers in this morning's Retirement Visa line were taken mostly by young people (the first of which arrived just after 4:00 AM) who looked like students and simply sat there until shortly before the numbers were called at 8:30 and the Agents with the paperwork arrived. I was told (by an agent) that the rule is one number per person queuing, but since I was eleventh in line and received number 12, I suspect that "regulars" (and that's not us) can push the envelope a little. If the Immigration Office staffing level remains the same then it could be just a few weeks before going to get your own won't be feasible unless you're prepared to sleep there.

You also have to wonder what kind of relationship the G4T Agency next to the photocopy shop has managed to set up. How can they offer a walk in late, same day service without it being at the expense of regular extension applicants, or other agents, for that matter? The temptation to pay a couple of kids a few hundred baht to sit around and play with their phones for three or four hours to get a number on spec for a walk in customer who will give you a couple of grand, must be hard to resist. Doesn't that come pretty close to scalping?

You may choose to use an Agent now but how will you feel if you have no option and the price is double in a couple of years? If the processing rate beyond the booked appointments remains unable to meet demand I'm sure there are going to be some problems to face before very long. Perhaps one way forward would be for the agents to fund the salary of an additional Immigration Officer to deal with their clients applications - that would enable them to offer an added value service without making it harder for others to apply themselves. Just a thought....

Your six points are for a perfect world. As you look around you shall see we ain't in no perfect world sir.

[northernjohn]

A rental contract, a lease or other proof of residence, oddly enough these things are not required when using an agent for retirement visa extension.

They are not required from everyone doing it themselves either, not me nor anybody I know has been asked for that information, ever.

I've been asked every year for about 5 years now.

I have never been asked. But I am not using the married system. Mine is just me no wife all though I have one. I have heard rumors of the need and am always prepared but never asked.

Other than the need for less money I see no reason to use the married. From all I have heard it is more complicated. They can and have been known to ask for pictures.

[Gonzo the Face]

_{Thread ='s quite a read..... one question .....anyone know at what approximate age male menopause ends ????}

[Greenside]

With the prospect of the effective practical cost of getting a retirement extension almost doubling (and heading towards 7000 baht should you need a UK Proof Of Income Letter) I really would have hoped for a more constructive response to my last post than some gripes about who owns the coffee shop. Who on earth cares about the coffee shop when what may turn out to be the Immigration Queuing Cartel are going to see that you pay 2000 baht or more because they've taken over the line for numbers? Preparing your own documents is child's play (and if it isn't for you, then an agent's services are well worth it) - getting an appointment with the Immigration Officer is the key. Who in their right mind would consider paying for "assistance" if they had a decent walk-in service?

That might indeed be a world more perfect than we could hope for but I do believe that we should do our best to make people (who matter, preferably) aware of what's really happening here. One more gripe about the coffee shop, who owns it or the price of a photocopy and I'll ask the mods to close the thread. Life's too short .

Edited August 26, 2015 by Greenside

[Tywais]

I've removed some speculative posts regarding ownership. Be careful about these accusations.

//edit - and some off topic cleanup

[Kiniyeow]

With the prospect of the effective practical cost of getting a retirement extension almost doubling (and heading towards 7000 baht should you need a UK Proof Of Income Letter) I really would have hoped for a more constructive response to my last post than some gripes about who owns the coffee shop. Who on earth cares about the coffee shop when what may turn out to be the Immigration Queuing Cartel are going to see that you pay 2000 baht or more because they've taken over the line for numbers? Preparing your own documents is child's play (and if it isn't for you, then an agent's services are well worth it) - getting an appointment with the Immigration Officer is the key. Who in their right mind would consider paying for "assistance" if they had a decent walk-in service?

That might indeed be a world more perfect than we could hope for but I do believe that we should do our best to make people (who matter, preferably) aware of what's really happening here. One more gripe about the coffee shop, who owns it or the price of a photocopy and I'll ask the mods to close the thread. Life's too short .

I agree with you 100% on your posts Greenside, (if they had a decent walk-in service) most of this would be alleviated, but as far as I know we have no official suggestion path to take so it's probably just going to get worse before it ever gets better. For those few people who actually do have constructive suggestions, where are they to turn?

I was just there this morning for my 90 day report and I must say, it seemed much easier before the move to Prom, but after seeing how early people got there for the retirement extensions, I'm not sure what I'm going to do when my comes due early next year.

[Greenside]

Getting any kind of organized response from individuals is virtually impossible - everyone has different renewal dates, different priorities, different amounts of time and income at their disposal and, just as importantly, differing views on the matter. Add to that the possibility that any person brave or foolhardy enough to raise the matter publicly will undoubtedly be threatening the livelihood of people well placed enough to make sure their next application doesn't go through as smoothly as it might, and you begin to see how difficult this could get if a dependent industry is allowed to develop under our noses.

The arrangements at Promenda are fixable but have really served to highlight the gulf between supply and demand for the processing of some of the permits we need to live here. I do think that there is a useful role for Visa Agents but we must try to ensure that ordinary applicants can still use the system conveniently in the future.

[evenstevens]

Getting any kind of organized response from individuals is virtually impossible - everyone has different renewal dates, different priorities, different amounts of time and income at their disposal and, just as importantly, differing views on the matter. Add to that the possibility that any person brave or foolhardy enough to raise the matter publicly will undoubtedly be threatening the livelihood of people well placed enough to make sure their next application doesn't go through as smoothly as it might, and you begin to see how difficult this could get if a dependent industry is allowed to develop under our noses.

The arrangements at Promenda are fixable but have really served to highlight the gulf between supply and demand for the processing of some of the permits we need to live here. I do think that there is a useful role for Visa Agents but we must try to ensure that ordinary applicants can still use the system conveniently in the future.

cobber, its plain as day, all aliens in c/mai have two options

A/ engaged a trusted visa agent, O/S THAI VISA, or ASSIST THAI VISA, both agents are strongly recommended on this board

B/ ride your luck at the zoo

very simple is,nt it ??

Edited August 26, 2015 by evenstevens

[BarnicaleBob]

I went to the Prom. immigration yesterday to do my 90 days. I would have mailed it in but I wanted to check out the new offices. Here are my observations:

1. You collect your que number at a table outside on the patio, the lady there checks your papers and gives you a number.

2. They do not want you to wait inside the office, you are to wait in the patio area until your name or number is called, I tried sitting inside and was asked to wait outside.

3. I arrived about 1:30 in the afternoon and my number was not called until 4:10 in the afternoon, so it was a two hour and forty minute wait. There were also some late afternoon arrivals that were told the que was full and to return tomorrow.

4. There is a coffee stand on the patio which I assumes opens earlier than the coffee shops in the mall.

5. If you arrive mid to late morning or afternoon, there are several options on the first floor of the mall for coffee, tea and snacks.

Next time I will try on-line or mail-in 90 day check in.

[northernjohn]

I went to the Prom. immigration yesterday to do my 90 days. I would have mailed it in but I wanted to check out the new offices. Here are my observations:

1. You collect your que number at a table outside on the patio, the lady there checks your papers and gives you a number.

2. They do not want you to wait inside the office, you are to wait in the patio area until your name or number is called, I tried sitting inside and was asked to wait outside.

3. I arrived about 1:30 in the afternoon and my number was not called until 4:10 in the afternoon, so it was a two hour and forty minute wait. There were also some late afternoon arrivals that were told the que was full and to return tomorrow.

4. There is a coffee stand on the patio which I assumes opens earlier than the coffee shops in the mall.

5. If you arrive mid to late morning or afternoon, there are several options on the first floor of the mall for coffee, tea and snacks.

Next time I will try on-line or mail-in 90 day check in.

What was the number you were given? Any idea how many were processed after you? At that time couldn't have been many. Were you close enough to see if many had to go get more photo copies or get help with the form? I think that is a part of the hold up. I don't believe that they should help in any way. The girls out side can do that.

[Greenside]

Getting any kind of organized response from individuals is virtually impossible - everyone has different renewal dates, different priorities, different amounts of time and income at their disposal and, just as importantly, differing views on the matter. Add to that the possibility that any person brave or foolhardy enough to raise the matter publicly will undoubtedly be threatening the livelihood of people well placed enough to make sure their next application doesn't go through as smoothly as it might, and you begin to see how difficult this could get if a dependent industry is allowed to develop under our noses.

The arrangements at Promenda are fixable but have really served to highlight the gulf between supply and demand for the processing of some of the permits we need to live here. I do think that there is a useful role for Visa Agents but we must try to ensure that ordinary applicants can still use the system conveniently in the future.

cobber, its plain as day, all aliens in c/mai have two options

A/ engaged a trusted visa agent, O/S THAI VISA, or ASSIST THAI VISA, both agents are strongly recommended on this board

B/ ride your luck at the zoo

very simple is,nt it ??

You're stating the obvious and you are clearly happy with the situation.

You may not feel so happy when only option (A) is on the table and the price is on the rise.

Simple? You've got it.

[elgordo38]

With the prospect of the effective practical cost of getting a retirement extension almost doubling (and heading towards 7000 baht should you need a UK Proof Of Income Letter) I really would have hoped for a more constructive response to my last post than some gripes about who owns the coffee shop. Who on earth cares about the coffee shop when what may turn out to be the Immigration Queuing Cartel are going to see that you pay 2000 baht or more because they've taken over the line for numbers? Preparing your own documents is child's play (and if it isn't for you, then an agent's services are well worth it) - getting an appointment with the Immigration Officer is the key. Who in their right mind would consider paying for "assistance" if they had a decent walk-in service?

That might indeed be a world more perfect than we could hope for but I do believe that we should do our best to make people (who matter, preferably) aware of what's really happening here. One more gripe about the coffee shop, who owns it or the price of a photocopy and I'll ask the mods to close the thread. Life's too short .

Ah the velocity of money does indeed have strange directions.

[slapout]

I am not going to repeat myself about agents,, 1 year extensions, etc and what some have said is taking place at the new immigration office.

I gave my thoughts on the topic ''ägent at promenada /near immigration office''. or something to that effect.

There is a hotline to consumer protection, another to report possible corruption./ graft

[evenstevens]

cobber, its plain as day, all aliens in c/mai have two options

A/ engaged a trusted visa agent, O/S THAI VISA, or ASSIST THAI VISA, both agents are strongly recommended on this board

B/ ride your luck at the zoo

very simple is,nt it ??

You're stating the obvious and you are clearly happy with the situation.

You may not feel so happy when only option (A) is on the table and the price is on the rise.

Simple? You've got it.

yes E/S , has always been happy, since engaging a visa agent , and prior to the alien invasion, a very happy client at the zoo, too

aliens like yourself,who try to make a monkey out of my post with hypertheotical quotes as u have posted above, are the real problem in c/mai

whilst the present sitiuation is far from perfect, its not a death sentence,just a bit of stuffing around, if affordable, engaging a visa agent takes care of that

just like up grading, from cattle class to business class on a airline

time for some real realism, the present poor service is here to stay,

like it or lump it, if the latter use a trusted visa agent, very simple me thinks

[mesquite]

Getting any kind of organized response from individuals is virtually impossible - everyone has different renewal dates, different priorities, different amounts of time and income at their disposal and, just as importantly, differing views on the matter. Add to that the possibility that any person brave or foolhardy enough to raise the matter publicly will undoubtedly be threatening the livelihood of people well placed enough to make sure their next application doesn't go through as smoothly as it might, and you begin to see how difficult this could get if a dependent industry is allowed to develop under our noses.

The arrangements at Promenda are fixable but have really served to highlight the gulf between supply and demand for the processing of some of the permits we need to live here. I do think that there is a useful role for Visa Agents but we must try to ensure that ordinary applicants can still use the system conveniently in the future.

Who is this "we" you speak of? Are you part of management at CM Imm.?

The system is run by Thais, not foreigners. We foreigners have no clout in this situation as the last few years have shown. The workers at Imm. have no interest in making the system more efficient. They show up and do their job and get paid regardless of how many visa extensions they process. If we threatened to leave Thailand and take our business elsewhere, they would be happy, as there would be less work to do and less pressure.

Also we are not customers in a store that wants to make sales. We are people who want to live in Chiang Mai, usually for economic reasons. You get more bang for your buck here.

How do you think the Thais *really* view us foreigners (especially farangs)?

It's either get used to the lines or pay a visa agent. Or move.

[Rimmer]

A troll post has been removed and the topic closed at the request of the OP

//CLOSED//