Berserk elephant kills mahout, runs away with Chinese tourists on its back

[tuanku]

Pure exploitation of elephants, nothing else, all in the name of greed ...

Elephants are endemic to T'land. Let them be free.

My condolences to the family of the mahout. That's a rough way to die.

But let's look at this 'exploitation,' 'greed,' and the idea of freeing the elephants to roam around Thailand....

Chiangmai331, are you going to give up your home so the elephants can roam freely? Do you suppose your neighbors will? After all, the land your homes are built upon were once jungle that supported the wild elephant population. Perhaps we can bulldoze down all the moobans that now line the various Ring Roads, raze the shopping malls and re-plant grass lands so the elephants can feed in their natural habitats once more. Hell, we don't need highways or even dual-carriageways, so lets rip them up as well. After all, elephants aren't going to obey stop lights for safe crossing... Are you beginning to see some problems with just letting the elephants run freely?

Kannikapor88, will you please pay the veterinary bills for the elephants? Elephants don't need more than a few dollars a day for food, so could you please pay for that as well... of course multiplied by several hundred elephants currently residing in Elephant Camps. After all, if the tourists aren't paying money (which buys the elephant's food and pays veterinary bills,) someone certainly has to. As we've already seen, thanks to the urbanization of Thailand, there is just no place that can naturally support these several hundred elephants in the wild.

Back in the day, elephants used to earn their own wages in the timber industry. Animal activists decided that this was cruel, and managed to get it stopped. Somehow it's fine for a water buffalo to drag a plow all day, or an Ox to drag a cart, but cruel for an elephant to drag a tree... OK... I don't need to understand the logic, but I can certainly understand the results. Someone has to pay to feed the elephants. It's rather like the Pro-Life people saying 'we have a duty to save the unborn babies, but no obligation to feed them after they are born...'

Someone has to pay. For food. For medical care. For space. Elephants can't take care of themselves any more because of what WE did to their habitat. So who do you suggest pays now?

This is an ignorant and ill informed comment, but you are right about one thing - the elephants cannot be released into the "wild". There is not enough space for them and they do not have the skills to make it as wild elephants anyway, having been kept in captivity. However keeping elephants in camps and elephant related tourism does not have to be cruel and exploitative. There are several good models to follow. Unfortunately the bad examples not only outnumber the good but they make much more profit. The real answer is to regulate this industry with the welfare of the animals in mind. Not likely in the immediate future, although opinions are very slowly changing. Incidents like this show the need for proper training and licencing of mahouts. This elephant will have been known to be potentially dangerous by the people running the business but the decision was made to switch mahouts and try to keep using him anyway. (an elephant costs roughly the same as a new car around 700K Baht) The elephant is just as much a victim as anyone in this story.

[English 1]

Using these magnificent animals like that or in anyway is callous and cruel.

They are shackled and chained up.

The 'Breaking' of their will is done when very young and it's barbarous and wicked.....you can find videos which are upsetting.

The East has an appalling history of cruelty to animals.

Pattaya Zoo is appalling.... I saw an elephant whipped so hard it was screaming and crying.

Also, using a Bear for photos and making it sit in an unnatural and painful position....

by prodding in under the armpits with a sharp stick.

[spectrumisgreen]

Dreadful experience for the family.

Dreadful experience for the elephant too (on a daily basis), taken from it's mother, beaten into submission and miss treated on a daily basis. I feel for the family but no sympathy for the mahoot. Won't change a thing TIT.

Yes, the exploitation and mistreatment of all elephants, all animals, is just WRONG.. except YOU have no real and true idea of what you are talking about, to claim such 'insights', do you? How could you? Saw a documentary once?.. Your mates down the pub tell you? Just another judgmental soap-boxer from a different world, ignorantly and callously somehow happy that a family has lost someone!!!

[flyingdoc]

I entirely disagree with many comments. I think that many Thais do actually like elephants, or at least the idea of elephants; hence naming a beer after them!

Now that much of their habitat in LOS has been removed, there is a responsibility to look after elephants, but there must be a better way of ensuring that happens. Certainly bull elephants should not be used for rides if this practice cannot be stopped in the short term?

[Gonzo the Face]

I'm surprised there aren't more stories like this. Wild animals should not be kept in captivity. They should be viewed with caution, but in their natural environment. No doubt, this was in the name of conservation. A euphemism for money making exploitation.

If you want to see elephants then best place is the Elephant Conservation Centre near Lampang, a Royal sponsored project. A magnificent park with expert handlers and vets who do a great job with abandoned and injured elephants.

I have been twice. The second time was to see if the conditions /treatment seen on my first visit, was a one off bad day. It wasn't. I was not impressed in the least. I must admit, they have good P. R. though.

I did view them in their natural habitat in the Tsavo National Park outside Mombasa Kenya. Magnificent experience.

Apples & Oranges. Thailand does not have the space that Kenya does. As for conditions, it's a regular port of call for UK vet students and zoo vets. One of their vets is currently doing a research project at the Royal Veterinary College in London. Good PR doesn't impress such people. Maybe you are one of those that think it is unnatural to watch an elephant "paint", or bow for tourists. In that case maybe you can come up with a better way of stopping highly intelligent animals from living a life of utter tedium.

How about some of you take some of your time to teach the elephants to type and then they can join TV and post their wants and feelings on this forum...... Just like Donald Trump followers....... they talk the talk but should they get what they ask for ????? have not given 1 minute to think ..... what now..... I love elephants as much as the next person, maybe more, but think it thru..... what is the next step if they are set free..... Put things in another light and replace the elephant being with humanity...... People who want to eat need to do something productive..... most of the time its called working. I don't see any writing from animal groups saying how bad they feel for the humans having to work to live. Now to cover the first Jacka$$ retort comment.... I am not saying that it would not be bad for the elephant abuse to continue..... this is what should be stopped.... other than the abuse they seem to get, I do not see the elephants being misused if they give elephant rides and such. For them this is being productive.... For all the holier than thou posters, I suggest you determine what is wrong with this activity and work to correct it, without being lemming-like and say it must stop. If you stop it ... then think it through.... what then.

Edited August 27, 2015 by Gonzo the Face

[charmonman]

Dreadful experience for the family.

and for the elephant.

[Jim walker]

Thailand discovers elephants are not taxis, and elephants realise tusks not for carving pretty ornaments.

[Alwyn]

Crikey, even the elephants don't like the Chinese tourists

[timendres]

I'm surprised there aren't more stories like this. Wild animals should not be kept in captivity. They should be viewed with caution, but in their natural environment. No doubt, this was in the name of conservation. A euphemism for money making exploitation.

Partial blame on those who think riding an elephant is something fun to do.

I would never pay money for this experience as the money just supports more exploitation. I would be much more interested in coming to a natural habitat where there was an area set apart for the humans to stand clear and simply observe these wonderful animals go about their natural existence. I would feel stupid paying someone to strap a saddle on an elephant's back and force it to cart me around.

The same disdain for those compelled to have photos taken hugging tigers or riding dolphins or any of the other inane photos they feel a need to post on Facebook.

Now, build some treetop bars where I can comfortably sit above these magnificent creatures, drink a cold beer, and observe without disturbing, and you might have a formula for success.

[timendres]

Apples & Oranges. Thailand does not have the space that Kenya does. As for conditions, it's a regular port of call for UK vet students and zoo vets. One of their vets is currently doing a research project at the Royal Veterinary College in London. Good PR doesn't impress such people. Maybe you are one of those that think it is unnatural to watch an elephant "paint", or bow for tourists. In that case maybe you can come up with a better way of stopping highly intelligent animals from living a life of utter tedium.

How about some of you take some of your time to teach the elephants to type and then they can join TV and post their wants and feelings on this forum...... Just like Donald Trump followers....... they talk the talk but should they get what they ask for ????? have not given 1 minute to think ..... what now..... I love elephants as much as the next person, maybe more, but think it thru..... what is the next step if they are set free..... Put things in another light and replace the elephant being with humanity...... People who want to eat need to do something productive..... most of the time its called working. I don't see any writing from animal groups saying how bad they feel for the humans having to work to live. Now to cover the first Jacka$$ retort comment.... I am not saying that it would not be bad for the elephant abuse to continue..... this is what should be stopped.... other than the abuse they seem to get, I do not see the elephants being misused if they give elephant rides and such. For them this is being productive.... For all the holier than thou posters, I suggest you determine what is wrong with this activity and work to correct it, without being lemming-like and say it must stop. If you stop it ... then think it through.... what then.

The elephants must be productive to earn their dinner?! OMG.

Seems to me they existed for ages managing things just fine all by themselves.

The real problem is HUMANS!!! We have so violated their natural space that we have disturbed their ability to exist as they had naturally evolved. As opposed to suggesting that they need to work to earn a meal from the very creatures that stole their natural life, maybe it would be better to just remove the damn humans!

Next you will suggest they need to work in order to qualify for a government health plan.

[Gonzo the Face]

I'm surprised there aren't more stories like this. Wild animals should not be kept in captivity. They should be viewed with caution, but in their natural environment. No doubt, this was in the name of conservation. A euphemism for money making exploitation.

Partial blame on those who think riding an elephant is something fun to do.

I would never pay money for this experience as the money just supports more exploitation. I would be much more interested in coming to a natural habitat where there was an area set apart for the humans to stand clear and simply observe these wonderful animals go about their natural existence. I would feel stupid paying someone to strap a saddle on an elephant's back and force it to cart me around.

The same disdain for those compelled to have photos taken hugging tigers or riding dolphins or any of the other inane photos they feel a need to post on Facebook.

Now, build some treetop bars where I can comfortably sit above these magnificent creatures, drink a cold beer, and observe without disturbing, and you might have a formula for success.

Your writing is again like that of someone who is of the belief that their opinions are perfect and any differing opinions are the illusions of the wackos.

To an elephant carrying around a family of three is little different than that of a pony giving a ride to a child at a agricultural fair. But certain numbers of readers might be of the opinion, unlike yours, that it is ok to sit in a bar ,built in the top of a tree and have a few cold beers. Have you given any thought that as you walk out to this treehouse all the hundreds of ants and other insects or life forms you probably have stepped on and killed..... Oh its so horrible just the thought of all the deaths you caused by your lust for a good treetop beer. ....... Suggest you start looking at and thinking in a bigger picture..... all the sad ant mothers and fathers just crying at the loss of their babies......

[Gonzo the Face]

Apples & Oranges. Thailand does not have the space that Kenya does. As for conditions, it's a regular port of call for UK vet students and zoo vets. One of their vets is currently doing a research project at the Royal Veterinary College in London. Good PR doesn't impress such people. Maybe you are one of those that think it is unnatural to watch an elephant "paint", or bow for tourists. In that case maybe you can come up with a better way of stopping highly intelligent animals from living a life of utter tedium.

How about some of you take some of your time to teach the elephants to type and then they can join TV and post their wants and feelings on this forum...... Just like Donald Trump followers....... they talk the talk but should they get what they ask for ????? have not given 1 minute to think ..... what now..... I love elephants as much as the next person, maybe more, but think it thru..... what is the next step if they are set free..... Put things in another light and replace the elephant being with humanity...... People who want to eat need to do something productive..... most of the time its called working. I don't see any writing from animal groups saying how bad they feel for the humans having to work to live. Now to cover the first Jacka$$ retort comment.... I am not saying that it would not be bad for the elephant abuse to continue..... this is what should be stopped.... other than the abuse they seem to get, I do not see the elephants being misused if they give elephant rides and such. For them this is being productive.... For all the holier than thou posters, I suggest you determine what is wrong with this activity and work to correct it, without being lemming-like and say it must stop. If you stop it ... then think it through.... what then.

The elephants must be productive to earn their dinner?! OMG.

Seems to me they existed for ages managing things just fine all by themselves.

The real problem is HUMANS!!! We have so violated their natural space that we have disturbed their ability to exist as they had naturally evolved. As opposed to suggesting that they need to work to earn a meal from the very creatures that stole their natural life, maybe it would be better to just remove the damn humans!

Next you will suggest they need to work in order to qualify for a government health plan.

You really do feel much superior to all beings don't you????

Yes , think about it if you are able..... all creatures have a must need to be productive in their own way. But I don't think you will understand that.

[gerryX]

The treatment of elephants in thailand is shamefull and they are just used and abused.

The majority of mahouts are Cambodian and not thai due to the acceptance of pitifull wages. They are not as times past, the brother of the elephant they look after.

I think if anyone takes the time to watch how they treat the elephants it will become obvious that the majority have no compassion for thier imprisoned charges.

I, as many others on this forum, cringe and are deeply sadened by the fate of these wonderfull animals at the hands of greedy owners.

Yes, the elephants have to earn their keep, but they dont have to be abused in the process.

[Tony125]

Elephants are endemic to T'land. Let them be free.

Can't really do that as there are wild herds in remote areas and they have problems with the elephants raiding farmers crops. I don't think there is a problem riding them as they sure can handle the weight and is better than pulling plows and carrying trees/lumber like they used to do. Seems if they are treated well should not be a problem and they earn their keep by taking tourists for rides.

Like 10 years ago they brought out a bull elephant for me to ride who had a reputation for being tempermental. Before I got up on him I bought a large branch of bananas and fed them to him with some other fruit, kept talking calmly with him When I got on top fed him more fruit and talked to him. Later I even slid off his head by holding onto harnes and dropped to the ground to take pics. then I realised how was I supposed to get back up there? No stand to climb up. The mahout had him lean down I stepped on his leg and he tossed me back up. Quite a feeling to expiriance how extremely powerfull an elephnat that size is

[Traveller45]

These things happen, unfortunately. I don't see the "trade" quite as negative as some others. Elephants basically like to work and play, provided they are well treated. The Mahout got what was coming to him. Nice way to go, too. Of course there's a wide variety of places with vastly different standards. The family got the scare of their lives for sure, but no scratch otherwise. Elephants are smart

[TheFishman1]

TIT this is Thailand

[wabothai]

The mahout must have known that the elephant was in musth, but decided that his fee was more important.

he paid with his life.

[fish fingers]

The treatment of elephants in thailand is shamefull

I hate seeing these huge animals chained up all day and night. If you go to that touristy Raft hotel in Kanchanaburi (on the river kwai) they have elephants there chained up in the adjoining village most of the time but at least they get to swim in the river.

Also feel sorry for Mon villagers who are being taken advantage of but thats another story

Edited August 27, 2015 by fish fingers

[rapom]

I do not usually make but one critical post to a topic, but this has to be my exception. To all the posters that refer to the mahout's death "as getting what he deserved". What did he do to deserve to die? Did any of you even read the news reports, completely? All three articles? Do you lack reading comprehension? Nowhere in the articles did it say that he had or was abusing the elephant. According to the police investigation, his death was the result of the elephant seeing a "former" mahout, that had been abusive to him. The man who died, tried to calm the elephant down, but was trampled and gored to death. The former abusive mahout ran from the scene. So I ask again "why did he deserve to die? Just because you think he did? Justify your reasoning to the deceased man's family. Get off your soap boxes and try not to display your lack of intelligence, common sense and humanity.

[FolkGuitar]

My condolences to the family of the mahout. That's a rough way to die.

But let's look at this 'exploitation,' 'greed,' and the idea of freeing the elephants to roam around Thailand....

Chiangmai331, are you going to give up your home so the elephants can roam freely? Do you suppose your neighbors will? After all, the land your homes are built upon were once jungle that supported the wild elephant population. Perhaps we can bulldoze down all the moobans that now line the various Ring Roads, raze the shopping malls and re-plant grass lands so the elephants can feed in their natural habitats once more. Hell, we don't need highways or even dual-carriageways, so lets rip them up as well. After all, elephants aren't going to obey stop lights for safe crossing... Are you beginning to see some problems with just letting the elephants run freely?

Kannikapor88, will you please pay the veterinary bills for the elephants? Elephants don't need more than a few dollars a day for food, so could you please pay for that as well... of course multiplied by several hundred elephants currently residing in Elephant Camps. After all, if the tourists aren't paying money (which buys the elephant's food and pays veterinary bills,) someone certainly has to. As we've already seen, thanks to the urbanization of Thailand, there is just no place that can naturally support these several hundred elephants in the wild.

Back in the day, elephants used to earn their own wages in the timber industry. Animal activists decided that this was cruel, and managed to get it stopped. Somehow it's fine for a water buffalo to drag a plow all day, or an Ox to drag a cart, but cruel for an elephant to drag a tree... OK... I don't need to understand the logic, but I can certainly understand the results. Someone has to pay to feed the elephants. It's rather like the Pro-Life people saying 'we have a duty to save the unborn babies, but no obligation to feed them after they are born...'

Someone has to pay. For food. For medical care. For space. Elephants can't take care of themselves any more because of what WE did to their habitat. So who do you suggest pays now?

This is an ignorant and ill informed comment, but you are right about one thing - the elephants cannot be released into the "wild". There is not enough space for them and they do not have the skills to make it as wild elephants anyway, having been kept in captivity. However keeping elephants in camps and elephant related tourism does not have to be cruel and exploitative. There are several good models to follow. Unfortunately the bad examples not only outnumber the good but they make much more profit. The real answer is to regulate this industry with the welfare of the animals in mind. Not likely in the immediate future, although opinions are very slowly changing. Incidents like this show the need for proper training and licencing of mahouts. This elephant will have been known to be potentially dangerous by the people running the business but the decision was made to switch mahouts and try to keep using him anyway. (an elephant costs roughly the same as a new car around 700K Baht) The elephant is just as much a victim as anyone in this story.

29 people (so far) thought otherwise when I posted this, so perhaps you can tell us which part was an 'ignorant and ill informed comment.'

You seemed to agree with my entire post, just added a bit to it.

While you're at it, perhaps you can tell us who you were before you added 'Tuanku' to your list of screen names... Having only a few posts to your credit is somewhat suspicious.

Edited August 27, 2015 by FolkGuitar

[Jiggo]

This is a good news story. Sorry, but exploitation of endangered animals is wrong. The mahout got his just deserts for using his skills in an unethical manner. The Chinese family deserved to be frightened, for engaging in an activity which exploits the endangered animals and funds their further exploitation. I wish this story would just scare away other tourists, so this industry eventually disappears.

Don't be Sorry.....Exploitation of any animals endangered or not, and most are, is wrong...

Never forget when one (Elephant) had enough on 2nd road Pattaya and demolished a couple of beer bars.

Edited August 27, 2015 by Jiggo

[MyFriend You]

It amazes me, the number of people that read TV articles, then respond with some of the dumbest questions and ignorant comments. Here we have a person who has died a somewhat horrible death and three people certainly terrified, by their ordeal and then a successful rescue. The man killed was apparently not an intentional target, but the result. If you read the article and have more sympathy for the elephant than for the lives, lost or endangered, pity you.

Elephant 1 Mahou 0 = the Thai's I know wold say it was Buddah's will, and punishment for mistreating the elephant when it was young..............this is an isolated incident, not many happen like this - for the Tourists?? I think they did exacly what they were supposed to do, let the elephant calm itself and wait for rescue - Win Win in my eyes.

[freedom4life]

If I had Chinese tourists on my back I'd go berserk too.

[freedom4life]

The treatment of elephants in thailand is shamefull and they are just used and abused.

The majority of mahouts are Cambodian and not thai due to the acceptance of pitifull wages. They are not as times past, the brother of the elephant they look after.

I think if anyone takes the time to watch how they treat the elephants it will become obvious that the majority have no compassion for thier imprisoned charges.

I, as many others on this forum, cringe and are deeply sadened by the fate of these wonderfull animals at the hands of greedy owners.

Yes, the elephants have to earn their keep, but they dont have to be abused in the process.

Elephants don't have to earn nothing...they were here long before civilization was.

[thaibeachlovers]

I'm surprised there aren't more stories like this. Wild animals should not be kept in captivity. They should be viewed with caution, but in their natural environment. No doubt, this was in the name of conservation. A euphemism for money making exploitation.

If you want to see elephants then best place is the Elephant Conservation Centre near Lampang, a Royal sponsored project. A magnificent park with expert handlers and vets who do a great job with abandoned and injured elephants.

I have been twice. The second time was to see if the conditions /treatment seen on my first visit, was a one off bad day. It wasn't. I was not impressed in the least. I must admit, they have good P. R. though.

I did view them in their natural habitat in the Tsavo National Park outside Mombasa Kenya. Magnificent experience.

I have to agree with you. The most "flash" thing about the place was the fancy entrance sign and the new ?conference centre. Still, if the elephants can't be there, they'd have to be put down.

I am surprised the elephant in question still has it's tusks though. As proven they are lethal on an angry animal.

[RT85]

August doesn't seem to be a good month to be chinese in thailand.

well august is the chinese 'seventh month' or 'hungry ghost month'... so.. yeah..

RIP to the guide.. and i feel terrible but the idea of a rogue elephant running off with tourists on its' back was hilarious...

i know it's mean because it's a real life story.. but still.. the absurdity of it all.. just made me laugh (if only just a little)

hope everyone else is alright!

[thaibeachlovers]

The treatment of elephants in thailand is shamefull and they are just used and abused.

The majority of mahouts are Cambodian and not thai due to the acceptance of pitifull wages. They are not as times past, the brother of the elephant they look after.

I think if anyone takes the time to watch how they treat the elephants it will become obvious that the majority have no compassion for thier imprisoned charges.

I, as many others on this forum, cringe and are deeply sadened by the fate of these wonderfull animals at the hands of greedy owners.

Yes, the elephants have to earn their keep, but they dont have to be abused in the process.

Elephants don't have to earn nothing...they were here long before civilization was.

Thai elephants in captivity do have to "earn" their keep. They can't be released into the "wild" and cost a lot to look after.

[thaibeachlovers]

I'm surprised there aren't more stories like this. Wild animals should not be kept in captivity. They should be viewed with caution, but in their natural environment. No doubt, this was in the name of conservation. A euphemism for money making exploitation.

Those elephants are no more "wild" than a trained horse, and no one is crying about horses being ridden.

[The Deerhunter]

This is a good news story. Sorry, but exploitation of endangered animals is wrong. The mahout got his just deserts for using his skills in an unethical manner. The Chinese family deserved to be frightened, for engaging in an activity which exploits the endangered animals and funds their further exploitation. I wish this story would just scare away other tourists, so this industry eventually disappears.

And what do you suggest they do with all the elephants?

So all the trees (nearly all) have been cut down. Elephants are out of jobs. Exploitation or whatever you want to call it is providing intelligent animals with jobs.

There is not enough free range forest available for all these elephants to be returned to where they will not come and "bother" tree-hugging animal rights activists who just want to see them in their natural environment. What is done is done and elephants live a long time. We cannot turn the clock back. These elephants cannot be returned to the wild. There simply isn't enough wild. End of story. So the challenge is to try and integrate them into some form of ecotourism programs. And some operators do it better than others. I do not think there is any way to undo this problem off thousands of captive elephants in Asia. A few royal patronaged show parks and eco-tourism elephant jungle treks are about the only viable solutions to keep these magnificent and intelligent animals around alive. Many of these places are doing the best they can. They are not all bad, but competent, funded, non-corrupt government oversight would be more than "nice" to have. Add that to the list of things that need fixing in this country. But, conservation has to be funded.

Here is the bleak alternative. Shoot them all???????? I didn't think you would like that one and neither do I.

You want to support elephants? Then do anything you can to spend some of your recreational dollars/baht anywhere these guys can be found. Except perhaps buying bananas for them to eat in Sukhumvit Road at midnight. And even that is probably better than some of the awful alternatives.

The problem is this elephant presumably went into musth and should not have been working.

Otherwise the only alternative is to shoot them all.

1. Musth or must /ˈmʌst/ is a periodic condition in bull (male) elephants, characterized by highly aggressive behavior and accompanied by a large rise in reproductive hormones. Testosterone levels in an elephant in musth can be as much as 60 times greater than in the same elephant at other times.
2. Musth - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

   https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Musth

Edited August 27, 2015 by The Deerhunter

[ozyjon]

Well seeing the treatment these mahouts dish out with them revolting hooks they use, I'm on the Elephant's side.

Glad the family are safe mind you...Hopefully another nail in the coffin of this pointless 'trade'

After seeing how these mahouts treat these animals

i totally agree, i wish i was there to give the elephant

a pat and some sugar cane.