Dual citizenship - my visa is running out soon! Help

[Phimeow]

You will have absolutely no problem leaving Thailand on your Thai passport regardless that you entered on the Swedish.

Reiterating: your status in Thailand as a Swedish passport holder with a catB visa is superseded by you subsequently gaining Thai citizenship.

True indeed Chalette but that leaves your Swedish passport in an undesirable state - overstay/Thailand,

Not an issue if OP does not ever want to use the Swedish passport ever again for entry/exit Thailand but personally I prefer to keep everything clean.

[chatette]

Phimeaow, the Thai visa in the Swedish passport is no longer relevant. It is superseded by gaining Thai citizenship. There is no overstay. This is how it works. It's not a question of keeping the Swedish (or any other nationality) passport `clean'.

On a technical point, any Thai using another nationality passport to enter or leave the country risks losing their Thai citizenship as it could be construed as taking advantage of that citizenship in Thailand. That's actually stated in the law, although I've never heard of it being applied. The point being, when in Thailand you use your Thai passport only from the day it's issued. Simple.

[Phimeow]

>the Thai visa in the Swedish passport is no longer relevant. It is superseded by gaining Thai citizenship. There is no overstay

Chatelle - surely if the OP entered with a Swedish passport (visa or visa waiver) and she does not exit Thailand with her Swedish passport, surely she has overstayed the visa/waiver conditions.

If the OP was to ever use her Swedish passport to exit Thailand in the future, it will be picked up as overstayed and fined.

I do agree that she could just ignore all of this and start using her Thai passport.

>On a technical point, any Thai using another nationality passport to enter or leave the country risks losing their Thai citizenship as it could be construed as taking advantage of that citizenship in Thailand. That's actually stated in the law, although I've never heard of it being applied.

They could never enforce that law as it would put paid to having dual citizenship! LoL. There are quite a few contradictory immigration laws aren't there.

[skatewash]

>the Thai visa in the Swedish passport is no longer relevant. It is superseded by gaining Thai citizenship. There is no overstay

Chatelle - surely if the OP entered with a Swedish passport (visa or visa waiver) and she does not exit Thailand with her Swedish passport, surely she has overstayed the visa/waiver conditions.

If the OP was to ever use her Swedish passport to exit Thailand in the future, it will be picked up as overstayed and fined.

I do agree that she could just ignore all of this and start using her Thai passport.

>On a technical point, any Thai using another nationality passport to enter or leave the country risks losing their Thai citizenship as it could be construed as taking advantage of that citizenship in Thailand. That's actually stated in the law, although I've never heard of it being applied.

They could never enforce that law as it would put paid to having dual citizenship! LoL. There are quite a few contradictory immigration laws aren't there.

Interestingly, the US does allow dual citizenship, but it is illegal to enter the US on a passport of another country if one is also a US citizen. I don't know whether Thailand has a similar law or not. If it does it would be interesting to read it. I've known dual nationality Thai citizens who have entered Thailand on a non-Thai passport without any consequences but that doesn't mean it is legal to do so.

[lopburi3]

AFAIK there is not such requirement in Thailand but if I am wrong would appreciate seeing the law.

[Jonde]

@chatette

Thanks a lot for the great infos! And all others of course as well!!! I love you all.

I have the same situation, but I'm German and I've "re-obtained" my Thai citizenship. I came in as German. Now, from your analogy and explanation, I don't need to exit, since I am Thai.

BUT what about the immigration office and my GERMAN data file stored in immigration computer??? I mean "that German fella" is overstaying or not??? Please clarify that. Thanks. I think I'll call the office at some point too. Maybe this week.

[chatette]

Jonde, the record of your German entry is voided by you subsequently gaining Thai citizenship. They already have your details on your citizenship application. The authorities do have a record that you have gained Thai citizenship because they gave it to you. You can't overstay!

[elviajero]

@chatette

Thanks a lot for the great infos! And all others of course as well!!! I love you all.

I have the same situation, but I'm German and I've "re-obtained" my Thai citizenship. I came in as German. Now, from your analogy and explanation, I don't need to exit, since I am Thai.

BUT what about the immigration office and my GERMAN data file stored in immigration computer??? I mean "that German fella" is overstaying or not??? Please clarify that. Thanks. I think I'll call the office at some point too. Maybe this week.

Unless the German fella ever exits using his German passport he will be shown on the immigration computer system as overstaying.

Edited September 1, 2015 by elviajero

[elviajero]

Jonde, the record of your German entry is voided by you subsequently gaining Thai citizenship. They already have your details on your citizenship application. The authorities do have a record that you have gained Thai citizenship because they gave it to you. You can't overstay!

How do immigration know that he has gained citizenship?

[Jonde]

Hmm, actually my case is a bit special:

Let me break it down

-I was born in TH

-Grew up in Europe, Germany, took German citizenship (lost my TH citizenship)

-Got a German name later on

-Recently got back to TH with German passport and German name

-Went to ampur and got my Thai ID with Thai name back
-Basically I could be viewed as 2 different persons, as I have 2 names (not kidding)

So how do the officials know that the German fella (me) is the Thai me in their computer...? In other words, screw my German citizenship, stay and live as "Thai" again. In case I want to go to Japan, go there as Thai. Note I didn't get citizenship, because in their computers, I was still there as THAI guy!! The officials had absolutely NO RECORDS of me switching to German citizen back then.

This sounds like some wicked James Bond, Bourne Identity sh=t but it's true.

[skatewash]

Jonde, the record of your German entry is voided by you subsequently gaining Thai citizenship. They already have your details on your citizenship application. The authorities do have a record that you have gained Thai citizenship because they gave it to you. You can't overstay!

How do immigration know that he has gained citizenship?

Maybe the Ministry of Foreign Affairs, which issues Thai passports, is sharing this data with the Interior Ministry, which under the Royal Thai Police, Bureau of Immigration Office enforces immigration laws in Thailand? Or maybe not? Seems unlikely, but who knows? One would imagine that the number of Thai citizens who also have a file at an Immigration Office, which is after all set up to deal with foreigners, is rather small. But this is speculation on my part because I don't know the answer.

[elviajero]

Jonde, the record of your German entry is voided by you subsequently gaining Thai citizenship. They already have your details on your citizenship application. The authorities do have a record that you have gained Thai citizenship because they gave it to you. You can't overstay!

How do immigration know that he has gained citizenship?

Maybe the Ministry of Foreign Affairs, which issues Thai passports, is sharing this data with the Interior Ministry, which under the Royal Thai Police, Bureau of Immigration Office enforces immigration laws in Thailand? Or maybe not? Seems unlikely, but who knows?

Nice idea but given what we know about bureaucracy in Thailand I doubt it very much.

Hopefully @chatette will enlighten us.

Edited September 1, 2015 by elviajero

[Jonde]

Yes, absolutely, looking forward to an answer on previous post: http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/852159-dual-citizenship-my-visa-is-running-out-soon-help/?p=9803553

[chatette]

Frankly, they can't share information between divisions of departments in the same ministry, let alone with other ministries. Many of the govt officials are utterly clueless about regulations let alone laws. It's a complete misinformation society.

[chatette]

As for immigration knowing a person has gained citizenship since entry on a visa, the Thai ID card has the issue date, as does the passport. That's all they need.

[nowretired]

Frankly, they can't share information between divisions of departments in the same ministry, let alone with other ministries. Many of the govt officials are utterly clueless about regulations let alone laws. It's a complete misinformation society.

Which country do you come from ?

If it is the place where everything dovetails neatly together then it must be a non existent place like La-La land ...........

[chatette]

They can't even get the 5 yrs before a newly minted Thai can vote right. I changed district offices (ie new ID card, tabian baan registration) within a year and got a vote notification for the very next poll a yr or so later. D'og

[nowretired]

They can't even get the 5 yrs before a newly minted Thai can vote right. I changed district offices (ie new ID card, tabian baan registration) within a year and got a vote notification for the very next poll a yr or so later. D'og

The solution to the "frustrations" is easy .................. Go back to the "perfect " country of origin.

[elviajero]

As for immigration knowing a person has gained citizenship since entry on a visa, the Thai ID card has the issue date, as does the passport. That's all they need.

Yes. But the problem is that if you walk in to an immigration office with your ID card and ask them to delete/amend/void/whatever the entry in the foreign passport they won't. They will tell you to exit the country using that passport to clear it.

This thread was started by someone wanting to clean up their passport for this reason. Your right that they don't need to, but the only way to stop a technical overstay on the foreign passport is to exit with it.

[chatette]

The point, Elvirojero, is that you do not ever have to walk into an immigration office regarding your other passport once you are Thai with a Thai ID card. It is irrelevant. The ID card is the clean up.

Nowretired, did I mention anything about any 'perfect' country of origin?

To help you out since you seem not to have followed the discussion, I did not.

I was responding to a question about information sharing between Thai government ministries and my comment was that they don't.

[nowretired]

The point, Elvirojero, is that you do not ever have to walk into an immigration office regarding your other passport once you are Thai with a Thai ID card. It is irrelevant. The ID card is the clean up.

Nowretired, did I mention anything about any 'perfect' country of origin?

To help you out since you seem not to have followed the discussion, I did not.

I was responding to a question about information sharing between Thai government ministries and my comment was that they don't.

Which "perfect" country ensures all information is shared between all ministries ?

Name the country chatette...........................

Time to refrain from Thai bashing ?

[elviajero]

The point, Elvirojero, is that you do not ever have to walk into an immigration office regarding your other passport once you are Thai with a Thai ID card. It is irrelevant. The ID card is the clean up.

The point, chatette, is that you have been missing the point ever since you joined the debate.

[chatette]

Nowretired, the discussion is about what needs to be done when you gain Thai citizenship after entering the country on a foreign passport and how or if govt ministries exchange information.

Please share your experience or insights if you have any on these matters.

It is not about how things are done anywhere else but in Thailand.

[chatette]

Elvajero, I beg to differ. I have personally been through this process and got my information from the highest

Foreign and Interior ministry levels.The point is there is no clean up to be done.

I can also state quite confidently that very few govt officials wld even know this because of the poor state of information management in this country. This is not bashing anyone or anything, it is simply the state of the nation. It's the way it is.

[nowretired]

Nowretired, the discussion is about what needs to be done when you gain Thai citizenship after entering the country on a foreign passport and how or if govt ministries exchange information.

Please share your experience or insights if you have any on these matters.

It is not about how things are done anywhere else but in Thailand.

But you imply that "it" is done better elsewhere ...........

Where ?

The OP has received good advise here about regularising her situation .

She can choose to follow your bad advice if she wishes to do so

Edited September 1, 2015 by nowretired

[elviajero]

Elvajero, I beg to differ. I have personally been through this process and got my information from the highest

Foreign and Interior ministry levels.The point is there is no clean up to be done.

I can also state quite confidently that very few govt officials wld even know this because of the poor state of information management in this country. This is not bashing anyone or anything, it is simply the state of the nation. It's the way it is.

"The point is there is no clean up to be done."

The point is that there is no clean up necessary if she only ever uses her Thai passport. The OP knows that but was asking how she could, through choice, put her Swedish passport in order.

I've followed TV for some time. I've read of at least one dual citizen that flew into Bkk and the IO insisted that she enter using her foreign passport even though she had a Thai passport in her hand.

There have also been reports of dual citizens, with Thai passports that, for whatever reason, exited Thailand with an overstay and were charged for overstaying. Even though, legally they can't be it happens.

If the OP uses her Thai passport forever more then she will have no problem. If she chooses to use her Swedish passport or is forced to by an IO then she may have a problem with the outstanding overstay. Not likely but possible.

The only way to prevent a future overstay situation is to exit with the Swedish passport. Immigration themselves have advised her the same thing. The only real debate is how best to go about the exit IF the OP decides exiting is what she wants to do.

[nem0z]

I called the Department of Consular Affairs today. Told them about my situation and asked them what could be done. She told me about the extension I could get at IO but we already know it's not possible since I'm unemployed. And so the only choice left is for me to leave the country and come back in with my Thai passport, since I entered the country with my Swedish passport and visa! It has been cleared! I asked them if I could just ignore and stay because I had gained a Thai passport and not care about my Swedish passport and visa, she told me NO. If I do then I'll be fined with an overstay on my Swedish passport once I leave Thailand with my Swedish (I can't overstay and leave with my Thai passport when I entered with my Swedish passport). She told me, you have to enter and exit with the same passport!

Now when that has been cleared up, I want to tell you guys I've booked a flight to KL for tomorrow. I've done my research, I've called IO and Department of Consular Affairs and I've asked you guys. My only choice is to leave the country by air and re-enter with my Thai passport.

I want to thank everyone who has been a part of this discussion, taking their time to answer my questions and helped me by giving advice. It has helped me a lot and I've really appreciated it. Thank you do much! I'll write abother post once I get back on how it went, for those who might want to know.

Nemo

[Jonde]

I called the Department of Consular Affairs today. Told them about my situation and asked them what could be done. She told me about the extension I could get at IO but we already know it's not possible since I'm unemployed. And so the only choice left is for me to leave the country and come back in with my Thai passport, since I entered the country with my Swedish passport and visa! It has been cleared! I asked them if I could just ignore and stay because I had gained a Thai passport and not care about my Swedish passport and visa, she told me NO. If I do then I'll be fined with an overstay on my Swedish passport once I leave Thailand with my Swedish (I can't overstay and leave with my Thai passport when I entered with my Swedish passport). She told me, you have to enter and exit with the same passport!

Now when that has been cleared up, I want to tell you guys I've booked a flight to KL for tomorrow. I've done my research, I've called IO and Department of Consular Affairs and I've asked you guys. My only choice is to leave the country by air and re-enter with my Thai passport.

I want to thank everyone who has been a part of this discussion, taking their time to answer my questions and helped me by giving advice. It has helped me a lot and I've really appreciated it. Thank you do much! I'll write abother post once I get back on how it went, for those who might want to know.

Nemo

Thanks for the infos... Hmm seems I gotta do the same thing

[lopburi3]

Thanks for the feedback and have a good trip - should be a easy solution and the end of your citizenship ordeal.

Would like to point out that most people are able to extend they stay when here on a foreign passport with proof of Thai nationality - in your case the entry visa being non immigrant B issued for a job that had ended seems to be the cause for them saying it could not be provided.

[Nordlys]

I want to thank everyone who has been a part of this discussion, taking their time to answer my questions and helped me by giving advice. It has helped me a lot and I've really appreciated it. Thank you do much! I'll write abother post once I get back on how it went, for those who might want to know.

Nemo

Is there any update on the outcome? I'm in the same dilemma myself - have Thai - Japanese dual citizenships and kept renewing my Non-Iimmigrant B + WP for the past 15 years but one day have to break that loop to settle in Thailand as a Thai after retirement. Hope things went as planned for Nemo and would appreciate an update.

Edited January 25, 2016 by Nordlys