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[webfact]

Chao Phraya river’s level drops close to critical point



BANGKOK: -- The water level of the Chao Phraya river at the Chao Phraya dam in Chainat province has dropped close to the critical point in the last 14 hours due mainly to excessive pumping of water into rice fields by farmers, said Mr Aekasith Sakdithanaporn, director of Chao Phraya dam project, on Monday.

He disclosed that the water level measured at the upstream Chao Phraya river at Tambon Bang Luang, Sappaya district of Chainat in the past 14 hours was 14.57 metres of mean sea level, representing a further drop of 40 centimetres compared to the critical level of 14 metres MSL.

He however said that the dam still kept the amount of water released downstream to push back sea water remains at 75 cubic metres per second.

He pleaded with farmers to not cultivate the second crop pointing out at the high risk of drought which may cause extensive damage to rice farm.

Mr Aekasith insisted that the water reserves at the upstream dam are not sufficient to meet the demand for second crop cultivation because the water is reserved for consumption.

Meanwhile, Mr Suchart Charoensri, chief of the water supply and maintenance project in Manorom district, said that there are an estimated 150,000 rai of second crop rice farm in the eastern side of the Chao Phraya river basin.

All of them are at risk of being ruined by drought, he said, adding that the Sirikit and Bhumibol dams have stopped releasing water for rice farming.

Source: http://englishnews.thaipbs.or.th/chao-phraya-rivers-level-drops-close-to-critical-point


-- Thai PBS 2015-08-31

[toybits]

The water is reserved for consumption? And what are the farmers going to eat if they are not allowed to grow rice? Is there some hierarchy of priorities here with downstream people having higher priority over upstream farmers?

[user82374298374]

Is there some hierarchy of priorities here with downstream people having higher priority over upstream farmers?

Being downstream, I sure hope so!

[robblok]

The water is reserved for consumption? And what are the farmers going to eat if they are not allowed to grow rice? Is there some hierarchy of priorities here with downstream people having higher priority over upstream farmers?

Logic mate, the everyone is entitled to the water and a fair share. If one farmer uses the water for 100 normal people it is only logical that they don't get that. Its tough for the farmers but when resources are scares equal shares apply and the farmer is out of luck.

I don't see why the poor farmers should get the water and the poor people using the water vending machines have to pay extra because now they have to buy bottled water because of selfish farmers.

They are both poor and both should have an equal share in water.

[WitawatWatawit]

A few thousand hungry farmers, or a few million thirsty city folk - take your pick which you would rather face. A food shortage, even for farmers, is quite some way off, but water depletion is very close and potentially far more devastating. There are ways to help the small number of starving farmers. More difficult to help millions of people desperate for water. If farmers won't cooperate for the benefit of the majority, seize their farms.

[carstenp]

i agree consume, before farming, but that told, what that worry me more is the level in the dams down here. Many of the dams level is only 25 % here 1 month to end monsoon

http://www.kromchol.com/array/BDam.htm

[plachon]

Being at such a low level at this time of year is not good news, either for the river's ecology or the millions of domestic consumers of water downstream. While Bangkok is essentially an unsustainable city in the longer term and will suffer impacts of floods, droughts and storms (chances of an intense typhoon coming straight up the Gulf of Siam and striking the Chao Phraya Delta as Typhoon Nargis did a few years ago in Burma must be increasing with each passing year) on a fairly regular basis into the future as climate change kicks up a notch; in the shorter term, millions of people are dependent on the Chao Phraya river for their domestic water supply. Ensuring a basic minimum supply to all households would have to a policy goal of the authorities, one would have thought.

What I don't get, and is reinforced once more by this article, is when the RID bosses "plead" with farmers not to plant or irrigate a second crop of rice, what exactly is going on here? The RID control the flows of water through every dam, watergate, sluice in the country down to tertiary canal level, where it might (just might) be controlled by water users associations of farmers groups. So if they want to stop farmers planting rice or irrigating crops, they have the power to do so by just closing off the sluice at the river or reservoirs and there is no need to "plead". What seems to be going on here, and perhaps someone living near the Chao Phraya river can confirm, is that the RID are still diverting water into the canals and it is flowing to certain zones where select farmers are being allowed to plant irrigated rice, but other farmers not in the selected zones are supposed to voluntarily refrain from irrigating their crops and instead just watch the water flow by to others.

But in reality and farmers acting rationally within the context they find themselves, many are not so restrained and filching water out the canal, perhaps opening secondary or tertiary sluices secretly at night or by syphoning water straight out the canals, and ignoring the "pleas" of the RID bigwigs to give up their livelihood. If this is the case, as I suspect, one can hardly just blame the farmers who want to take water flowing by their fields and joining in a long tradition of virtual anarchy within Thai irrigation schemes, but ask why are some farmers being allowed to receive water and some aren't (how is this decided and by whom?) and why don't the RID just deny water to all farmers, if they want to ensure sufficient supplies for essential uses downstream. Thai rice farmers are some of the most inefficient water users in Asia, growing a low value, high water consuming crop, subsidised not only by government price subsidies but also the cost of essentially "free" irrigation water, which is charged at 1948 rates, if charged at all.

This is not to blame the farmers for the situation, but rather the bureaucrats and politicians that created it in the first place, who could also solve it with some political will, if they could get beyond the annual charade of "begging" farmers not to grow rice and use water flowing right past their fields, put there by the RID. Then the govt could start on reducing all the other wasteful uses of water in the country, from constant sprinklers on lawns and car washes (etc., etc), right the way down to the annual Songkran washout......

[robblok]

i agree consume, before farming, but that told, what that worry me more is the level in the dams down here. Many of the dams level is only 25 % here 1 month to end monsoon

http://www.kromchol.com/array/BDam.htm

Yes and still farmers want to take the water for rice to let the rest of the people starve of thirst. Its just not possible to do a second harvest tough luck farmers. They should deploy the army to make sure the farmers stop being so irresponsible.

Farming has always been risky now they loose out that is how the game is played. If not for YL and her rice scheme there would have been more water in the dams as less rice would have been grown. The drought is the main culprit but that hair-brain scheme keeps on giving trouble.

Drinking water before rice, give them some compensation if we must but stop them from being selfish and using all the water.

[dcutman]

The water is reserved for consumption? And what are the farmers going to eat if they are not allowed to grow rice? Is there some hierarchy of priorities here with downstream people having higher priority over upstream farmers?

You are proof "ignorance is bliss".

[chainarong]

The climate and the changes in weather patterns are and should be a concern for everyone , just last month in New South Wales one week it was snowing the following week fires were threatening homes, tornado's have started to appear in the sth of west OZ , one came through yesterday , rivers are getting lower and no amount of cloud seeding is going to change that., Thai authorities have no option but to meet the challengers ahead , develop better strategies, work with international experts and trends and build a few more dams, however I am sure I will see this Headline again next year, the Mekong has been getting lower for decades and the result is more talks.

[JAG]

The water is reserved for consumption? And what are the farmers going to eat if they are not allowed to grow rice? Is there some hierarchy of priorities here with downstream people having higher priority over upstream farmers?

Well Bangkok is downstream. ..

[h90]

A few thousand hungry farmers, or a few million thirsty city folk - take your pick which you would rather face. A food shortage, even for farmers, is quite some way off, but water depletion is very close and potentially far more devastating. There are ways to help the small number of starving farmers. More difficult to help millions of people desperate for water. If farmers won't cooperate for the benefit of the majority, seize their farms.

Farmer aren't hungry....they can still have a small ricefield and their chicken, ducks like the got told to have...

[robblok]

The water is reserved for consumption? And what are the farmers going to eat if they are not allowed to grow rice? Is there some hierarchy of priorities here with downstream people having higher priority over upstream farmers?

Well Bangkok is downstream. ..

Yes a city of millions imagine running out of water because of selfish farmers who decided that making money is more important then millions of people many of whom poor too. Farmers not caring letting the other poor choose to die of thirst or buy expensive bottled water from their meager salaries.

This is not rich against poor but selfish poor against other poor.

Everyone has right to water in equal amounts.. its just totally unfair for farmers to claim 1000x more water as other persons.

[JAG]

The water is reserved for consumption? And what are the farmers going to eat if they are not allowed to grow rice? Is there some hierarchy of priorities here with downstream people having higher priority over upstream farmers?

Well Bangkok is downstream. ..

Yes a city of millions imagine running out of water because of selfish farmers who decided that making money is more important then millions of people many of whom poor too. Farmers not caring letting the other poor choose to die of thirst or buy expensive bottled water from their meager salaries.

This is not rich against poor but selfish poor against other poor.

Everyone has right to water in equal amounts.. its just totally unfair for farmers to claim 1000x more water as other persons.

And as you point out, a city of millions is at risk of running dry. Hence the "hierarchy of priorities". Edited August 31, 2015 by JAG

[robblok]

The water is reserved for consumption? And what are the farmers going to eat if they are not allowed to grow rice? Is there some hierarchy of priorities here with downstream people having higher priority over upstream farmers?

Well Bangkok is downstream. ..

Yes a city of millions imagine running out of water because of selfish farmers who decided that making money is more important then millions of people many of whom poor too. Farmers not caring letting the other poor choose to die of thirst or buy expensive bottled water from their meager salaries.

This is not rich against poor but selfish poor against other poor.

Everyone has right to water in equal amounts.. its just totally unfair for farmers to claim 1000x more water as other persons.

And as you point out, a city of millions is at risk of running dry. Hence the "hierarchy of priorities".

So you agree 100% with this priority ?

[coulson]

By the time desalination plants are introduced, they will be built on floating foundations.

[JAG]

I agree that maintaining an adequate water supply to Bangkok is more important than a second rice crop, yes.

I'm also interested who decides which farmers are allowed a second crop, which aren't, and on what basis the decision is taken. That however is a separate matter.

[ratcatcher]

A few thousand hungry farmers, or a few million thirsty city folk - take your pick which you would rather face. A food shortage, even for farmers, is quite some way off, but water depletion is very close and potentially far more devastating. There are ways to help the small number of starving farmers. More difficult to help millions of people desperate for water. If farmers won't cooperate for the benefit of the majority, seize their farms.

"There are ways to help the small number of starving farmers."

Not long ago Thailand was buried under a mountain of rice, some good quality,some so bad rats wouldn't eat it. Can the government spare a few thousand tons to feed these starving farmers?

[clockman]

Thainess, no planning for the future. Only live for the moment.

[robblok]

I agree that maintaining an adequate water supply to Bangkok is more important than a second rice crop, yes.

I'm also interested who decides which farmers are allowed a second crop, which aren't, and on what basis the decision is taken. That however is a separate matter.

Corruption might rear its ugly head in deciding the second paragraph of you posted. They should just not allow any farmer that is upstream of BKK (unless on an other waterway) to do a second crop. Otherwise its too easy for corrupt people to make money and let large connected farmers do get a second crop.

As we seen with beach managing only a full ban will work otherwise the rules will not be clear and manipulation will be too easy.

[longtom]

Thainess, no planning for the future. Only live for the moment.

Yeah, same as California, bloody Thainess!

[worgeordie]

This lack of rain is worrying for next year, not much rain last rainy season,

maybe even less this,its a knock on effect,I am sure the reservoirs have

not replenished to anywhere near to full capacity,Thailand needs to

look to the future,conserve more water and look at crops that don't need

the water rice does, but i am sure the Government has a plan

regards worgeordie

[Local Drunk]

This lack of rain is worrying for next year, not much rain last rainy season,

maybe even less this,its a knock on effect,I am sure the reservoirs have

not replenished to anywhere near to full capacity,Thailand needs to

look to the future,conserve more water and look at crops that don't need

the water rice does, but i am sure the Government has a plan

regards worgeordie

Things are looking rough for us all... Thailand is export dependent, not a good sign. Thailand depends on tourism... doesn't look good there either. Thais want higher wages than other SE Asian countries so higher equals more unemployment... bad sign... Thais like to offer easy credit, so that the people that have little will end up with nothing because buying what you can't afford is good for the economy, but they'll look good sitting in a car you can't afford, texting on a telephone you can't afford while dying of dehydration. But don't worry... They are going to have a meeting and it will all be resolved in 2 months.

Edited August 31, 2015 by Local Drunk

[otherstuff1957]

If the rivers and reservoirs are this low now, what will they look like by next April or May, after 6 months of the dry season!!?? In 9 or 10 months we have much more serious trouble than worrying about a 2nd or 3rd rice crop!

[Eddy B]

Thailand is now reaping what it sowed. They kept the farmers and their off spring stupid / non educated. They said, "you grow crops we eat you get paid". This has been the story of our a few hundred years. The farmers know nothing different. Nothing about crop rotation, and how to also build water storage facilities on their own land when needed. Now because of the poor farmers uneducated actions, Thailand............Bangkok will feel the kick up the arse! I live in the north and not one day have I not been able to shower or use tap water. Maybe Bangkok needs to wake-up and see it is not the center of Thailand.

[Praematura]

These people can't even manage water consumption. Your average Somchai doesn't conserve but when the water runs out he will have that retarded indignant look on his face and ask what happened.

[Srikcir]

If access to water between farmers and metropolitan Bangkok is about equality, then Bangkokians must be expected to ration their water usage on concert with farmers being expected to cut back their harvest needs. But the government seems to have little regard for cutting rice farmer's income while giving priority to Bangkok metropolitan consumption demands.

Bangkok's inequitable use of water over farmer needs is best illustrated by the fact that only 10% of Bangkok's wastewater is recycled. There has never been a forced rationing of water consumption in Bangkok. Yet it is incumbent on the region's rice farmers to cut back their usage. Why?

It's not about upstream vs. downstream. It's about POLITICS. Even with a junta that claims it's nonpolitical, it needs support of the nation's center for domestic consumption and industrial manufacturing to stay in control of the nation.

The economic wealth of Bangkok speaks LOUDER than rice farmers' income in the Bangkok region.

[robblok]

If access to water between farmers and metropolitan Bangkok is about equality, then Bangkokians must be expected to ration their water usage on concert with farmers being expected to cut back their harvest needs. But the government seems to have little regard for cutting rice farmer's income while giving priority to Bangkok metropolitan consumption demands.

Bangkok's inequitable use of water over farmer needs is best illustrated by the fact that only 10% of Bangkok's wastewater is recycled. There has never been a forced rationing of water consumption in Bangkok. Yet it is incumbent on the region's rice farmers to cut back their usage. Why?

It's not about upstream vs. downstream. It's about POLITICS. Even with a junta that claims it's nonpolitical, it needs support of the nation's center for domestic consumption and industrial manufacturing to stay in control of the nation.

The economic wealth of Bangkok speaks LOUDER than rice farmers' income in the Bangkok region.

Equality means everyone gets the same amount of water, give the farmers the same amount as a bangkok family use and they would not be able to grow rice. So its not about Bangkok people having to use less its about farmers using to much.

Also you have no idea about the problem (as usual) its about how salt the water get even by putting untreated waste water back in the river that gets countered. Because the salinity is the problem.

Just to grow 1 kg of rice 2.500 liter of water is used. Now how many kg of rice do they grow and compare that with how much an average household uses for water.

http://www.bangkokpost.com/learning/learning-from-news/290269/growing-rice-with-little-water

Edited September 1, 2015 by robblok