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Legal experts see no criminal trouble for Clinton thus far


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Legal experts see no criminal trouble for Clinton thus far
By KEN DILANIAN

WASHINGTON (AP) — Experts in government secrecy law see almost no possibility of criminal action against Hillary Clinton or her top aides in connection with now-classified information sent over unsecure email while she was secretary of state, based on the public evidence thus far.

Some Republicans, including leading GOP presidential candidate Donald Trump, have called Clinton's actions criminal and compared her situation to that of David Petraeus, the former CIA director who was prosecuted after giving top secret information to his paramour. Others have cited the case of another past CIA chief, John Deutch, who took highly classified material home.

But in both of those cases, no one disputed that the information was highly classified and in many cases top secret. Petraeus pleaded guilty to a misdemeanor; Deutch was pardoned by President Bill Clinton.

By contrast, there is no evidence of emails stored in Hillary Clinton's private server bearing classified markings. State Department officials say they don't believe that emails she sent or received included material classified at the time. And even if other government officials dispute that assertion, it is extremely difficult to prove anyone knowingly mishandled secrets.

"How can you be on notice if there are no markings?" said Leslie McAdoo, a lawyer who frequently handles security-clearance cases.

Clinton's critics have focused on the unusual, home-brew email server Clinton used while in office and suggested that she should have known that secrets were improperly coursing through an unsecure system, leaving them easily hackable for foreign intelligence agencies. But to prove a crime, the government would have to demonstrate that Clinton or aides knew they were mishandling the information — not that she should have known.

A case would be possible if material emerges that is so sensitive Clinton must have known it was highly classified, whether marked or not, McAdoo said. But no such email has surfaced. And among the thousands of documents made public, nothing appears near the magnitude of the Top Secret material Petraeus and Deutch mishandled.

Trump, last week, argued differently, saying Petraeus' case involved "far less important documents." Clinton's documents, he told Fox News, "were more highly secret, they were more important, there were more of them. It's really General Petraeus on steroids."

Petraeus, a married former four-star general who headed the CIA from 2011-2012, admitted he gave his biographer and lover, Paula Broadwell, journals containing Top Secret information. These included "the identifies of covert officers, war strategy, intelligence capabilities and mechanisms, diplomatic discussions, quotes and deliberative discussions from high-level National Security Council meetings . and discussions with the president of the United States," according to court documents.

Petraeus also admitted lying to the FBI, while his emails showed he knew the journals contained highly classified information.

He pleaded guilty to one count of unauthorized removal and retention of classified material, a misdemeanor. Though eligible for up to one year in prison, he was sentenced to two years' probation and a $100,000 fine. Broadwell didn't publish the material.

Deutch ran the agency from 1995-1996. He took Top Secret information home and stored it on computers connected to the Internet, something he also did when he worked at the Pentagon. In January 2001, he agreed to plead guilty to a misdemeanor charge of mishandling government secrets, but Bill Clinton pardoned him before the Justice Department could file the case.

Another Clinton administration official, Samuel "Sandy" Berger, pleaded guilty to a misdemeanor in 2005 after admitting to removing five classified documents involving a terrorism study from a National Archives facility. Berger served four years as Clinton's national security adviser.

Hillary Clinton, the Democratic presidential front-runner, now says her use of home email server for government business was a mistake. Last year she provided about 30,000 emails to the State Department, which is public releasing another batch Monday. The department is only publishing documents after scrubbing them of any classified or sensitive information.

Two government inspectors have told Congress they found material in the emails was secret at the time it was sent to Clinton and "never should have been transmitted via an unclassified personal system."

The State Department and the Clinton campaign dispute that the material was classified at the time.

At least one email involved the CIA drone strikes, government officials have told the Associated Press. The counterterrorism program is a poorly kept secret, but a secret nonetheless. Another email appeared to reference a highly classified matter, the officials said, though there was some question about whether the information came in through classified or open channels.

Emails posted on the State Department's web site, made public under the Freedom of Information Act, show diplomats commonly slipping and discussing classified information over email. Unlike an intelligence agency, the department seeks to operate in the open when it can.

But arguing that violations are common isn't a valid defense for ordinary government employees, said Bradley Moss, a lawyer who often represents such people. They face discipline "all the time, in far more nuanced disputes than this," he said.

Although political controversy has centered on Clinton's use of private email instead of an unsecured government account, the distinction matters little in the context of classified information. Clinton says State Department rules allowed her to use private email and officials knew about it.

But another law could be relevant. Under the Federal Records Act, destroying official records can be a crime. Clinton ordered around 32,000 emails deleted from her server because she said they were personal. The server was then wiped, making the emails unretrievable.

"If one person has a copy of one of those deleted emails, and it was about government business, the whole game changes," said Kel McClanahan, a lawyer and expert in government records.

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-- (c) Associated Press 2015-09-01

RELATED TOPIC:

State Dept. to release 7,000 pages of Clinton's emails, 150 censored
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"If one person has a copy of one of those deleted emails, and it was about government business, the whole game changes," said Kel McClanahan, a lawyer and expert in government records.

Once again the AP shows their true colors... It has already been established that Clinton sent classified materials to her lawyer via the email server, so the whole game has changed... Of course, this fact is not stated in this fluff piece... I have no idea why the establishment is defending this shrew at every turn considering she has proven time and time again that she is not fit to be a dog catcher, much less POTUS...

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Lets be sensible about this. There are two options: (1) She really has horrible judgment when it comes to very sensible issues; or (2) She believes she above the law and could care less what she does.

Either way, would you want that type of person as your leader.

As far as legal experts, I would not hire 90% of the lawyers I know to handle a traffic ticket for me. So what are the legal experts. Professors? Uhm, why are Professors when private jobs pay a whole lot more.

You can get pretty anyone to say anything to get a little public attention. There will be just as many saying the opposite which begs the question, how smart and what is the agenda if either group.

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No legal trouble yet but costing her plenty to keep it out of the news until elections are over!

Huh?

How is she keeping it out of the "news"?

Two words are her biggest assets in keeping a low profile at this point in time.

Donald Trump

Trump is taking the heat and attention away from her troubles now.

She is still dropping like a rock to both Bernie and Joe in the polls despite everything the DNC and MSM can do to help save her.

Her campaign is in trouble.

The OP claims they see no criminal trouble for her yet I keep coming back to her choice of Platte River to serve as her server. The company had no facility clearance to handle classified (from SBU up) and everything she sent through them is a violation.

Her only hope is Obama will kill the FBI investigation and not approve a DOJ indictment. She's in deep this time.

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Next month former SecState Clinton will match up with the Republican controlled House Ben Ghazi committee which is also blowing copious smoke over the emails its search discovered, so it should be a defining day in what Republican chairman Gowdy of South Carolina has promised will be a "marathon" session.

The telegenic and sharp Gowdy is a former prosecutor who is 100% a teabagger. Another R member of the committee is also deputy chairman of the Republican Party National Committee while the committee's only Republican woman member is also a former prosecutor.

081615_gowdy.jpg

Republican Rep. Trey Gowdy of South Carolina, chairman of the latest House Behghazi Committee and a former prosecutor

says the emails of former Secretary of State Hillary Clinton will be central to the day-long Capitol Hill hearing on Thursday, October 22nd.

The number one Democrat on the committee, Rep. Elijah Cummings has been the senior D on the previous six circus committees that found nothing so he knows this way through this. D Rep. Tammy Duckworth is a military veteran on the committee who is heavily favored to win the Senate seat in Illinois held by Republican Mark Kirk.

Committee member D Rep. Adam Smith of Washington state is also top Democrat in the Armed Services Committee who knows the military's role in Behghazi through and through and is expert in classified information and documents.

16498959287_d42c45c6ac.jpg

US Rep Adam Smith D-WA, Lunar New Year 2015 in Seattle.

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No legal trouble yet but costing her plenty to keep it out of the news until elections are over!

Huh?

How is she keeping it out of the "news"?

Two words are her biggest assets in keeping a low profile at this point in time.

Donald Trump

Trump is taking the heat and attention away from her troubles now.

She is still dropping like a rock to both Bernie and Joe in the polls despite everything the DNC and MSM can do to help save her.

Her campaign is in trouble.

The OP claims they see no criminal trouble for her yet I keep coming back to her choice of Platte River to serve as her server. The company had no facility clearance to handle classified (from SBU up) and everything she sent through them is a violation.

Her only hope is Obama will kill the FBI investigation and not approve a DOJ indictment. She's in deep this time.

Thanks for that Chuck, but I asked a simple question. Were you replying to someone else's post?

He said "(it is) costing her plenty to keep it out of the news", and I asked how she is doing that.

I'm quite interested in how she is doing it and what it is costing her (and for what).

Maybe you fancy a crack at that one?

Edited by Chicog
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It costs her little at this point to keep out of the news. I have already said Trump is driving the news now. If Trump dies down, she might take center stage. The MSM will have to stop protecting her for it to gain as much traction as it deserves.

Her attorney is handling the legal aspects of her case and has probably suggested she avoid questions and under no circumstances say anything stupid.

Her attorney is the same guy that handled Bill's impeachment and some of their previous mishaps with scandal. You know, Bill's women, Hill's financial escapades, whitewater, et al.

He comes from a highly regarded and expensive D. C. law firm.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_E._Kendall

I have no idea how much he charges but my guess would be in the $5K to $10K hourly range, possibly much higher. Perhaps F430Murci can give us an opinion on this, if he reads it.

I seriously doubt she is taking money from her household fund to pay for his services. My uneducated guess would be either the Foundation or her campaign is paying for the lawyer(s).

Remember, she and Bill were "dead broke" not too long ago.

One thing that bothers me about all this is the thumb drive. For anybody to have access to the thumb drive, they would need to be provided with a security clearance. My guess is Kendall had access, his secretary must have had access since they copied some 30,000 e-mails off the thumb drive. The copy machine operator would have needed clearance and anybody that touched the hard copies would have needed clearances.

We know Platte River had no facility clearance...did all the lawyers and strap hangers have clearances as well?

If pursued by AG Lynch, this is not something that one can simply wish away.

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It costs her little at this point to keep out of the news.

Can you give me some kind of indication of what it's costing her, what she's spending on what, and how it keeps her out of the news?

Because I think I was trying to point out that said poster was talking out of his behind.

I didn't want to drag you into it you know.

wink.png

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The right are cranking it up now because another 7000 emails were released today and ho-hum nothing in them either.

With several monthly releases down and several more to go and still nothing on the cards the right has to try to implicate Prez Obama and Attorney General Lynch and and to deepen their serious sounding moonprobing tones.

Expect the false gravity from the right of the false gravity of the emails and stuff to become extremely serious sounding and super severe. Less equals more.

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It costs her little at this point to keep out of the news.

Can you give me some kind of indication of what it's costing her, what she's spending on what, and how it keeps her out of the news?

Because I think I was trying to point out that said poster was talking out of his behind.

I didn't want to drag you into it you know.

wink.png

Why would she personally have to pay anything? She has a plethora of PR/Communications people paid for by Soros.org, DNC, Clinton Foundation and her campaign. They do the schmoozing with the media for her.

It is their job to see that any unfavorable news is kept from the public domain so I would guess they are thrilled with Trump's grabbing of the news, particularly in light of the e-mail controversy and her upcoming testimony under oath in front of the Benghazi Select Committee.

I have no idea how much all this costs but my guess would have to be in the tens of thousands monthly in salaries alone. This high profile political expertise would seem to be rather expensive.

Huma and Jennifer don't work on the cheap.

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The right are cranking it up now because another 7000 emails were released today and ho-hum nothing in them either.

With several monthly releases down and several more to go and still nothing on the cards the right has to try to implicate Prez Obama and Attorney General Lynch and and to deepen their serious sounding moonprobing tones.

Expect the false gravity from the right of the false gravity of the emails and stuff to become extremely serious sounding and super severe. Less equals more.

I don't understand your point. The real point is that she isn't going to be the next POTUS. She's dropping like a rock in polls of public trust and in polls against other wannabes. If you think these scandals haven't hurt that old nag you're dreaming.

Hillary's big dream is dying right in front of her face and she deserves it. The US has had enough of the Clinton sleaze which began before Bill even ran for POTUS.

I also reiterate that Hillary has very little personality and what she does have is all bad. She couldn't motivate more than about three people to actually vote for her.

Enough's enough of this old dame.

Cheers.

"Hillary wants to restore faith in government." cheesy.gifcheesy.gif

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Nate Silver the numbers wizard at FiveThirtyEight.com who's never been upended or even slightly embarrassed says that by his calculations it is 85% probable HRC gets the Democratic party nomination. Nate btw is not yet offering a probability for the Republican nomination....all he says at this point is that he is examining factors that indicate an outsider's nomination year.

The oddsmakers haven't changed on HRC either, although there are some changes for other candidates.

To be elected POTUS November 8, 2016......

Hillary Clinton is at 11-10 odds or where she's been for a long time, 1-1 even odds.

John Ellis "Jeb" Bush is at 7-2

Trump is at 7-1

Sanders 10-1

Bidden 12-1

Rubio 14-1

Walker 16-1

Kasich 20-1

How's about a Trump-Bush ticket clap2.gif

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It costs her little at this point to keep out of the news.

Can you give me some kind of indication of what it's costing her, what she's spending on what, and how it keeps her out of the news?

Because I think I was trying to point out that said poster was talking out of his behind.

I didn't want to drag you into it you know.

wink.png

Why would she personally have to pay anything? She has a plethora of PR/Communications people paid for by Soros.org, DNC, Clinton Foundation and her campaign. They do the schmoozing with the media for her.

It is their job to see that any unfavorable news is kept from the public domain so I would guess they are thrilled with Trump's grabbing of the news, particularly in light of the e-mail controversy and her upcoming testimony under oath in front of the Benghazi Select Committee.

I have no idea how much all this costs but my guess would have to be in the tens of thousands monthly in salaries alone. This high profile political expertise would seem to be rather expensive.

Huma and Jennifer don't work on the cheap.

Nope, I still ain't seeing it.

The OP said she was paying fortunes to "keep it out of the news".

Even if she's only paying salaries, they should get fired, because they're crap at it.

biggrin.png

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It costs her little at this point to keep out of the news.

Can you give me some kind of indication of what it's costing her, what she's spending on what, and how it keeps her out of the news?

Because I think I was trying to point out that said poster was talking out of his behind.

I didn't want to drag you into it you know.

wink.png

Why would she personally have to pay anything? She has a plethora of PR/Communications people paid for by Soros.org, DNC, Clinton Foundation and her campaign. They do the schmoozing with the media for her.

It is their job to see that any unfavorable news is kept from the public domain so I would guess they are thrilled with Trump's grabbing of the news, particularly in light of the e-mail controversy and her upcoming testimony under oath in front of the Benghazi Select Committee.

I have no idea how much all this costs but my guess would have to be in the tens of thousands monthly in salaries alone. This high profile political expertise would seem to be rather expensive.

Huma and Jennifer don't work on the cheap.

Nope, I still ain't seeing it.

The OP said she was paying fortunes to "keep it out of the news".

Even if she's only paying salaries, they should get fired, because they're crap at it.

biggrin.png

"The OP said she was paying fortunes to "keep it out of the news".

Care to point this out in the OP?

Good luck on figuring it all out. I'm through with it.

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From today's articles:

--------------------------------------------------------------------

New Clinton Violations In Use Of Thumb Drives For Emails
RICHARD POLLOCK
Reporter
11:34 PM 09/01/2015
Hillary Clinton violated numerous State Department rules by using privately owned thumb drives to copy 30,000 of her official emails for her lawyer, according to a Daily Caller News Foundation investigation.
The former Secretary of State in December 2014 downloaded 30,000 government emails created during her tenure in the position from her private server onto three commercial thumb drives, which her lawyer, David Kendall, transported to Washington, D.C.
The State Department released 7,000 new Clinton emails Monday, including at least 125 that were treated by the department as classified. The FBI is conducting a criminal investigation into the handling of her emails, more than 400 of which have now been shown to include classified material.
In transferring her emails to private thumb drives, Clinton violated a slew of federal regulations, including those of her own State Department.
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The right are cranking it up now because another 7000 emails were released today and ho-hum nothing in them either.

With several monthly releases down and several more to go and still nothing on the cards the right has to try to implicate Prez Obama and Attorney General Lynch and and to deepen their serious sounding moonprobing tones.

Expect the false gravity from the right of the false gravity of the emails and stuff to become extremely serious sounding and super severe. Less equals more.

I don't understand your point. The real point is that she isn't going to be the next POTUS. She's dropping like a rock in polls of public trust and in polls against other wannabes. If you think these scandals haven't hurt that old nag you're dreaming.

Hillary's big dream is dying right in front of her face and she deserves it. The US has had enough of the Clinton sleaze which began before Bill even ran for POTUS.

I also reiterate that Hillary has very little personality and what she does have is all bad. She couldn't motivate more than about three people to actually vote for her.

Enough's enough of this old dame.

Cheers.

"Hillary wants to restore faith in government." cheesy.gifcheesy.gif

It has nothing to do with 'the polls'.

2016 Presidential Ticket

Hillary Clinton (D)

Jeb Bush ®

Trump will be bought off somehow.

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From the latest e-mail batch recently released.

------------------------------------------------------------------

Clinton, using private server, wrote and sent e-mails now deemed classified
By Carol D. Leonnig and Rosalind S. Helderman
September 1 at 8:36 PM
While she was secretary of state, Hillary Rodham Clinton wrote and sent at least six e-mails using her private server that contained what government officials now say is classified information, according to thousands of e-mails released by the State Department.
Although government officials deemed the e-mails classified after Clinton left office, they could complicate her efforts to move beyond the political fallout from the controversy. They suggest that her role in distributing sensitive material via her private e-mail system went beyond receiving notes written by others, and appears to contradict earlier public statements in which she denied sending or receiving e-mails containing classified information.
The classified e-mails, contained in thousands of pages of electronic correspondence that the State Department has released, stood out because of the heavy markings blocking out sentences and, in some cases, entire messages.
The State Department officials who redacted the material cited national security as the reason for blocking it from public view.

Almost got one in on me while I wuz writing a post.....smile.png

This one is of stuff not classified then but classified after HRC left her position as SecState. I should say yet another one of this character, nature. Applying mouth to mouth resucitation to this by hook or by crook stuff now.

Right / Left: Different colored sheep in the same pen. "Baaaaaaa." They all sound the same. "Baaaaaaa." Meat all tastes the same. "Baaaaaa"

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Let's see which of his tired, hackneyed catchphrases our resident liberal windbag will repeat regarding this perspective, that it's the President gunning for Ms. Cankles..... "rightwing media is gearing up"....."by hook or by crook"....


"Has the Clinton counterattack against President Obama begun?


The Clintons have never taken a political hit lying down. But given their weak and panicky reactions to Mr. Obama’s current, well-orchestrated hit on her — the FBI investigation into her alleged mishandling of classified material as secretary of state — they have appeared to passively absorb the escalating attack. Until now.


As he presses his attack, Mrs. Clinton has two choices. Option one: fold early and negotiate a mild end to the investigation in exchange for dropping out of the race. But Mr. Obama is not a forgiving sort, and now that he’s drawn blood, he’s likely to go for the kill."






Edited by TheAppletons
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The right are cranking it up now because another 7000 emails were released today and ho-hum nothing in them either.

With several monthly releases down and several more to go and still nothing on the cards the right has to try to implicate Prez Obama and Attorney General Lynch and and to deepen their serious sounding moonprobing tones.

Expect the false gravity from the right of the false gravity of the emails and stuff to become extremely serious sounding and super severe. Less equals more.

I don't understand your point. The real point is that she isn't going to be the next POTUS. She's dropping like a rock in polls of public trust and in polls against other wannabes. If you think these scandals haven't hurt that old nag you're dreaming.

Hillary's big dream is dying right in front of her face and she deserves it. The US has had enough of the Clinton sleaze which began before Bill even ran for POTUS.

I also reiterate that Hillary has very little personality and what she does have is all bad. She couldn't motivate more than about three people to actually vote for her.

Enough's enough of this old dame.

Cheers.

"Hillary wants to restore faith in government." cheesy.gifcheesy.gif

It has nothing to do with 'the polls'.

2016 Presidential Ticket

Hillary Clinton (D)

Jeb Bush ®

Trump will be bought off somehow.

Maybe he'll declare bankruptcy?

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Let's see which of his tired, hackneyed catchphrases our resident liberal windbag will repeat regarding this perspective, that it's the President gunning for Ms. Cankles..... "rightwing media is gearing up"....."by hook or by crook"....
"Has the Clinton counterattack against President Obama begun?
The Clintons have never taken a political hit lying down. But given their weak and panicky reactions to Mr. Obama’s current, well-orchestrated hit on her — the FBI investigation into her alleged mishandling of classified material as secretary of state — they have appeared to passively absorb the escalating attack. Until now.
As he presses his attack, Mrs. Clinton has two choices. Option one: fold early and negotiate a mild end to the investigation in exchange for dropping out of the race. But Mr. Obama is not a forgiving sort, and now that he’s drawn blood, he’s likely to go for the kill."

What a magical piece of fiction, ironically written by republican windbags.

biggrin.png

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Her rather ridiculous claim that nothing was marked "Classified" somehow absolves her from any responsibility for her own actions is absurd. Ignorance of the law is not a viable defense position.

It doesn't appear to be an issue of whether they were "marked" classified , simply of whether or not they actually *were* classified at the time they were sent.

I've seen allegation after allegation on pretty well every Fox hour, but they have been unable to substantiate a single one.

I'm sure when the FBI issue the results of their investigation in January we will know the truth.

I wonder how many pages of irrelevance this thread will contain by then?

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From today's articles:

--------------------------------------------------------------------

New Clinton Violations In Use Of Thumb Drives For Emails

RICHARD POLLOCK

Reporter

11:34 PM 09/01/2015

Hillary Clinton violated numerous State Department rules by using privately owned thumb drives to copy 30,000 of her official emails for her lawyer, according to a Daily Caller News Foundation investigation.

The former Secretary of State in December 2014 downloaded 30,000 government emails created during her tenure in the position from her private server onto three commercial thumb drives, which her lawyer, David Kendall, transported to Washington, D.C.

The State Department released 7,000 new Clinton emails Monday, including at least 125 that were treated by the department as classified. The FBI is conducting a criminal investigation into the handling of her emails, more than 400 of which have now been shown to include classified material.

In transferring her emails to private thumb drives, Clinton violated a slew of federal regulations, including those of her own State Department.

Read more: http://dailycaller.com/2015/09/01/new-clinton-violations-in-use-of-thumb-drives-for-emails/#ixzz3kbZkrVCQ

according to a Daily Caller News Foundation investigation.

laugh.png

The Daily Rightwing Caller of Rightwing News Fund Foundation. cheesy.gif

The right is cranking it up a huge new notch given that this round of released emails of former SecState Clinton discussed Gifilte fish and other odorous but not classified matters of state.

The Washington Times found something about satellites and N Korean nukes that turned out to be a State Department employee sending a summary on a "non-classified computer." More nothing in respect of then SecState Clinton.

The inquiry is of State Department classification systems and their status, not about HRC. The right though can continue to chase and fumble around over it because they're shooting themselves in both feet. clap2.gif

Gefilte is whitefish. That sounds suspiciously like Whitewater. I think we need to investigate. Set up a Congressional herring NOW! No, wait, we need Lox of congressional herrings. Send her a salmon to appear at our herring. Let her be weighed on the scales of justice. HaHA! She'll be singing a different tuna once we're through with her! More herrings! FishyGhazi!!

T

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