Emergency repatriation of UK citizen

[bigt3116]

So Embassy here must be different from other Embassies then seen this situation a few times all over the world and always the British Embassy has been there for people especially on two occasions where mental health issues were involves. Personally I would go to Embassy explain problems if they refuse help sit there don't move remember Embassy is British soil therefore cannot be arrested by Thai Police. Make sure someone goes with him with a camera. But I don't belive it will go that far I belive there would be help in the case of mental problems

Couple of things;

He won't even get into the Embassy without an appointment, so your sit down protest is a non-starter.

The British Embassy is NOT British soil, (a commonly held mis-truth), it is Thai soil and so YES the RTP could arrest him.

[Sutty]

So Embassy here must be different from other Embassies then seen this situation a few times all over the world and always the British Embassy has been there for people especially on two occasions where mental health issues were involves. Personally I would go to Embassy explain problems if they refuse help sit there don't move remember Embassy is British soil therefore cannot be arrested by Thai Police. Make sure someone goes with him with a camera. But I don't belive it will go that far I belive there would be help in the case of mental problems

Couple of things;

He won't even get into the Embassy without an appointment, so your sit down protest is a non-starter.

The British Embassy is NOT British soil, (a commonly held mis-truth), it is Thai soil and so YES the RTP could arrest him.

Not going to argue the points you make as this is about getting the man home safe and sound however you are incorrect re home soil not a miss truth

[manarak]

So Embassy here must be different from other Embassies then seen this situation a few times all over the world and always the British Embassy has been there for people especially on two occasions where mental health issues were involves. Personally I would go to Embassy explain problems if they refuse help sit there don't move remember Embassy is British soil therefore cannot be arrested by Thai Police. Make sure someone goes with him with a camera. But I don't belive it will go that far I belive there would be help in the case of mental problems

Couple of things;

He won't even get into the Embassy without an appointment, so your sit down protest is a non-starter.

The British Embassy is NOT British soil, (a commonly held mis-truth), it is Thai soil and so YES the RTP could arrest him.

Not going to argue the points you make as this is about getting the man home safe and sound however you are incorrect re home soil not a miss truth

the correct status of embassy grounds is that it has been lent to Great Britain for use as an embassy. it's a bit like a rental, GB is the tenant and the landlord (Thailand) cannot enter without permission.

the RTP can enter the embassy grounds only if invited by the British Government, if not invited they cannot enter.

someone causing a disturbance within the embassy is lekely to prompt embassy security personnel to request an arrest by the RTP.

if the person arrested is a British national in distress, I would consider such an arrest as scandalous and great shame to any country treating one of its citizens in such a way, possibly even a criminal act if the person in question is frail and Thai prison could threaten his life.

[Saradoc1972]

The last post outlined everything correctly. An embassy is actually extraterritorial, not that it matters at all.

But can we just stop talking about "sit-ins" in Embassies? This is just a big no, and would in no event be helpful.

We are sussing it out the normal way, I am looking into the correct procedures and timing.

He is not "frail" at the moment and does not look it, but he is on the certain road to that state.

Edited September 4, 2015 by Saradoc1972

[Saradoc1972]

I am herewith taking back anything I might formerly have surmised on the British Embassy not being helpful.

While they certainly still cannot pitch in with any of the money needed to get past immigration or the flight ticket,

talking to them has turned out to be immensely productive.

There apparently is an option going on a "fast track" with immigration, saving a decent amount of money, on the downside the flight will have to

be booked with Virgin, so that ticket will be 28k THB one-way... While it's not foolproof in that they could not protect John from getting holed up if

immigration turned sour, that apparently just does not happen doing it their way.

I've phoned them this afternoon on his behalf, gave him "John's" personal data, phone number, contact data of next of kin, and explained his situation, and they

went phoning him within 10 minutes and explained his options and procedures. Nice helpful chap, no probs, no sneers, no nothing, gave me a direct call-through number...

Was very much a breeze, but I suppose I've had some experience talking on behalf of "clients".

So, we'll turn up straight at Bangkok IDC one fine sunny morning, he'll hand himself in, we'll be informing the embassy beforehand, no reporting that passport stolen,

they'll sort things out, John's mum will be buying the ticket directly and they'll relay the flight plan to us, we'll be staying in Bangkok for 2 days, he'll be going on that plane

and that will be it. One of the biggest problems at this stage appears to be where I formerly pledged to pitch in, i.e. transport to Bangkok and accommodation, lacking a passport.

He's presently trying to find the last 300 GBP for the (reduced) fine for immigration and the emergency papers, but it looks like everything is a go.

Health-wise he's appearing to be holding steady, so I'll be leaving everything to the NHS. And I have continued to impress on him that he is not viable to live anywhere in a country

where there is no social net, wanting as that might seem to be in the UK. Might do better with a view to that if he were to learn some German. ;-))

[oncearugge]

I am herewith taking back anything I might formerly have surmised on the British Embassy not being helpful.

While they certainly still cannot pitch in with any of the money needed to get past immigration or the flight ticket,

talking to them has turned out to be immensely productive.

There apparently is an option going on a "fast track" with immigration, saving a decent amount of money, on the downside the flight will have to

be booked with Virgin, so that ticket will be 28k THB one-way... While it's not foolproof in that they could not protect John from getting holed up if

immigration turned sour, that apparently just does not happen doing it their way.

I've phoned them this afternoon on his behalf, gave him "John's" personal data, phone number, contact data of next of kin, and explained his situation, and they

went phoning him within 10 minutes and explained his options and procedures. Nice helpful chap, no probs, no sneers, no nothing, gave me a direct call-through number...

Was very much a breeze, but I suppose I've had some experience talking on behalf of "clients".

So, we'll turn up straight at Bangkok IDC one fine sunny morning, he'll hand himself in, we'll be informing the embassy beforehand, no reporting that passport stolen,

they'll sort things out, John's mum will be buying the ticket directly and they'll relay the flight plan to us, we'll be staying in Bangkok for 2 days, he'll be going on that plane

and that will be it. One of the biggest problems at this stage appears to be where I formerly pledged to pitch in, i.e. transport to Bangkok and accommodation, lacking a passport.

He's presently trying to find the last 300 GBP for the (reduced) fine for immigration and the emergency papers, but it looks like everything is a go.

Health-wise he's appearing to be holding steady, so I'll be leaving everything to the NHS. And I have continued to impress on him that he is not viable to live anywhere in a country

where there is no social net, wanting as that might seem to be in the UK. Might do better with a view to that if he were to learn some German. ;-))

Thank you for the update.

"John" was indeed fortunate that you were able to support/assist.

John will need an emergency travel document in order to fly and enter the UK but I guess that is being taken care of ?

[Saradoc1972]

Thank you for the update.

"John" was indeed fortunate that you were able to support/assist.

John will need an emergency travel document in order to fly and enter the UK but I guess that is being taken care of ?

While John is a native speaker, so his English is naturally better than mine, I'll make bloody double-sure of the correct procedures and timing myself with the embassy.

It's a bit of a mindset that grows on you if you have been a lawyer for *any* amount of time and have been dealing with clients or - in this case - "clients" and

their ability to follow instructions. Or not.

The best news so far is that we will *not* have to report that passport stolen to any sort of police and see what they make of him and his overstay to get emergency travel documents.

Unless I hear different from what has been relayed to me by way of indirect speech it will all be a big parcel including emergency papers from the embassy, and a smiling crowd

of people watching "John" quit the country, including the embassy's representative, immigration, myself, and John.

[evadgib]

Once the plane has taken off i'd like to see this thread purged of all the 'bloke in a pub' nonsence & pinned as an example of how the system actually works.

[bigt3116]

So Embassy here must be different from other Embassies then seen this situation a few times all over the world and always the British Embassy has been there for people especially on two occasions where mental health issues were involves. Personally I would go to Embassy explain problems if they refuse help sit there don't move remember Embassy is British soil therefore cannot be arrested by Thai Police. Make sure someone goes with him with a camera. But I don't belive it will go that far I belive there would be help in the case of mental problems

Couple of things;

He won't even get into the Embassy without an appointment, so your sit down protest is a non-starter.

The British Embassy is NOT British soil, (a commonly held mis-truth), it is Thai soil and so YES the RTP could arrest him.

Not going to argue the points you make as this is about getting the man home safe and sound however you are incorrect re home soil not a miss truth

"Contrary to popular perception and a lot of careless news reporting, embassies are the sovereign territory of the country in which they are located, NOT of the country whose diplomatic mission is housed there. That is why an office building can host an embassy on some floors and, say, a bank on others.

The reason for the misperception is probably that the Vienna Convention states that the local government foreswears the right to enter an embassy, and diplomatic immunity protects the diplomats working inside. However, this does not mean that that space is somehow transmuted into UK (or other) soil or legal territory for purposes of law enforcement.

Imagine, if a person should enter the British embassy and kill someone, who do you think will arrest him? Correct answer: the Chinese police. They cannot enter the embassy without the Ambassador's permission, but with that permission they will go in, take away the miscreant, and then try him in Chinese court under Chinese law. Or else the embassies security officers will deliver him to them outside the embassy gate. Imagine, if you can, the utter nonsense of the fellow being hustled onto an airplane and flown to London for trial.

Source(s):I am a US diplomat and consular officer.

Here is the Vienna Convention on Diplomatic Relations. Notice the absence of claim that an embassy is the sovereign territory of the country that occupies it, only that the embassy is protected, see article 22 and on.

http://www.un.int/usa/host_dip.htm "

[BritTim]

I am herewith taking back anything I might formerly have surmised on the British Embassy not being helpful.

While they certainly still cannot pitch in with any of the money needed to get past immigration or the flight ticket,

talking to them has turned out to be immensely productive.

... snip ...

That is great news. I must admit to being one of those highly skeptical of the Embassy being any use. I am happy to be proved wrong.

[paz]

So, we'll turn up straight at Bangkok IDC one fine sunny morning, he'll hand himself in, we'll be informing the embassy beforehand, no reporting that passport stolen,

they'll sort things out, John's mum will be buying the ticket directly and they'll relay the flight plan to us, we'll be staying in Bangkok for 2 days, he'll be going on that plane

and that will be it. One of the biggest problems at this stage appears to be where I formerly pledged to pitch in, i.e. transport to Bangkok and accommodation, lacking a passport.

He's presently trying to find the last 300 GBP for the (reduced) fine for immigration and the emergency papers, but it looks like everything is a go.

The full fine is Bt 20,000 that is 360 GBP. Paying that one does no IDC. From reportsA reduced fine by the court could be one half or even less , but then you have to add increased cost of ticket when booked for a fixed date from IDC, cost of police transport (yes they bill for that), etc.

There is at least one member here that knows all then ins and outs of this process very well and even better than the embassy, unfortunately I don't remember his nick now.

In any case filing a police report for a stolen passport while being on overstay does not mean immediate arrest.

Edited September 20, 2015 by paz

[guru]

The member you ask about who knows the system very well would be badbanker

[Saradoc1972]

Once the plane has taken off i'd like to see this thread purged of all the 'bloke in a pub' nonsence & pinned as an example of how the system actually works.

I will probably post a summary of this whole affair on a new thread with all the dos and don'ts, when this little episode is over.

Without any imagined parasites, bipolar depressions, anxiety-attacks, sit-ins in embassies, and everything.

The "bloke in a pub" business has been, to my mind, down to a minimum in this thread, if we forget about the pork worms and people getting "jailed up" in mental wards.

While there has been a side-story to this with me contacting a former healthcare-worker of "John's" to see if anything could be done for him upon returning to the UK,

that is not so much to the point. Life won't be pretty for him for a good couple of weeks, that's for sure. Wouldn't be in most any country.

Will mostly pertain to UK-citizens, but might be a good starting point for anyone finding himself or "a charge" in that sort of situation.

[Saradoc1972]

So, we'll turn up straight at Bangkok IDC one fine sunny morning, he'll hand himself in, we'll be informing the embassy beforehand, no reporting that passport stolen,

they'll sort things out, John's mum will be buying the ticket directly and they'll relay the flight plan to us, we'll be staying in Bangkok for 2 days, he'll be going on that plane

and that will be it. One of the biggest problems at this stage appears to be where I formerly pledged to pitch in, i.e. transport to Bangkok and accommodation, lacking a passport.

He's presently trying to find the last 300 GBP for the (reduced) fine for immigration and the emergency papers, but it looks like everything is a go.

The full fine is Bt 20,000 that is 360 GBP. Paying that one does no IDC. From reportsA reduced fine by the court could be one half or even less , but then you have to add increased cost of ticket when booked for a fixed date from IDC, cost of police transport (yes they bill for that), etc.

There is at least one member here that knows all then ins and outs of this process very well and even better than the embassy, unfortunately I don't remember his nick now.

In any case filing a police report for a stolen passport while being on overstay does not mean immediate arrest.

Thank you for your input (and whatever made 14 notifications of this turn up in my email-account), I was previously very much sure the maximum fine for an overstay exceeding 40 days

would be 20 k THB, or otherwise it would be 100 days of bed and breakfast, just like you wrote.

However, the Embassy told us otherwise. And I am going to trust in what they say, they have handled this and worse before on a daily basis. Otherwise, why would I have bothered to phone them this week?

In any event, they told us they do not need a police report for the passport. If it's fine by them, and they are the people who will furnish John with the emergency papers he needs, that settles the matter.

While I had figured before I made that call that report would not necessarily result in an arrest, as you wrote, it does not matter now. We are doing it their way, if they are happy, we are. Period.

There will be no charges for a police escort or transport to Bangkok IDC. Which is because we will be going there directly by ourselves and meet a bloke from the Embassy, as per prior appointment.

While you might possibly be right about that, we are not going to find out. And there will be no courts involved.

Edited September 20, 2015 by Saradoc1972

[paz]

Thank you for your input (and whatever made 14 notifications of this turn up in my email-account), I was previously very much sure the maximum fine for an overstay exceeding 40 days

would be 20 k THB, or otherwise it would be 100 days of bed and breakfast, just like you wrote.

However, the Embassy told us otherwise. And I am going to trust in what they say, they have handled this and worse before on a daily basis. Otherwise, why would I have bothered to phone them this week?

The maximum fine for overstay is currently set at Bt 20,000, beside this forum you can confirm that with Immigration if you want.

In any event, they told us they do not need a police report for the passport. If it's fine by them, and they are the people who will furnish John with the emergency papers he needs, that settles the matter.

That is good news, I think that was never reported before.

There will be no charges for a police escort or transport to Bangkok IDC. Which is because we will be going there directly by ourselves and meet a bloke from the Embassy, as per prior appointment. Period.

They will charge for transport to IDC to airport, which and is mandatory. Plus assorted other expenses including decent food. If any chance I recommend you try to spare detention in indecent conditions to someone that is suffering already.

Again, mine is 2nd hand info. I recommend you contact badbanker for solid help.

[oncearugge]

It would seem that Saradoc1972 has received assurances of assistance directly from the BE.

I doubt " 2nd hand info." will be of any help.

[Saradoc1972]

Thank you for your input (and whatever made 14 notifications of this turn up in my email-account), I was previously very much sure the maximum fine for an overstay exceeding 40 days

would be 20 k THB, or otherwise it would be 100 days of bed and breakfast, just like you wrote.

However, the Embassy told us otherwise. And I am going to trust in what they say, they have handled this and worse before on a daily basis. Otherwise, why would I have bothered to phone them this week?

The maximum fine for overstay is currently set at Bt 20,000, beside this forum you can confirm that with Immigration if you want.

In any event, they told us they do not need a police report for the passport. If it's fine by them, and they are the people who will furnish John with the emergency papers he needs, that settles the matter.

That is good news, I think that was never reported before.

There will be no charges for a police escort or transport to Bangkok IDC. Which is because we will be going there directly by ourselves and meet a bloke from the Embassy, as per prior appointment. Period.

They will charge for transport to IDC to airport, which and is mandatory. Plus assorted other expenses including decent food. If any chance I recommend you try to spare detention in indecent conditions to someone that is suffering already.

Again, mine is 2nd hand info. I recommend you contact badbanker for solid help.

Maximum fine is definitely 20k, 500 THB a day. No argument about that.

Apparently, immigration and the relevant western Embassies have had enough of it, though, and as everybody involved wants that destitute foreigner out of the country, including immigration,

there is a standing deal not involving courts. Or the fine is literally halved and there are some 1.800 THB other fees. I do not care, it was always going to cost money, it's 11.800 THB, and that is it.

Plus the fees for the emergency papers.

I will have to find out from the embassy myself, I already wrote I don't trust "clients" with anything they relay to me, but apparently there will be no detention involved. "John" explicitly told me, there would be

two nights of accommodation (which I will be paying for) involved, unless we bypassed the booking done by his mom under the auspices by the Embassy..... whatever.

The Embassy told us, we could do it all by our little selves, i.e. get the papers, book he flight, put 20k on the desk of airport immigration, and there still would be no guarantee immigration would let him

board the plane... if it's all going to be more or less the same money, I'd rather do it by the book.

And whoever is out there on this forum, I very much doubt there is somebody who knows the present-day procedures better than someone who very likely does it every day, meaning the Embassy.

I sure did ask when opening the thread, but I've made my mind up here. They were professional enough for that.

[paz]

Maximum fine is definitely 20k, 500 THB a day. No argument about that.

Apparently, immigration and the relevant western Embassies have had enough of it, though, and as everybody involved wants that destitute foreigner out of the country, including immigration,

there is a standing deal not involving courts. Or the fine is literally halved and there are some 1.800 THB other fees. I do not care, it was always going to cost money, it's 11.800 THB, and that is it.

Plus the fees for the emergency papers.

I will have to find out from the embassy myself, I already wrote I don't trust "clients" with anything they relay to me, but apparently there will be no detention involved. "John" explicitly told me, there would be

two nights of accommodation (which I will be paying for) involved, unless we bypassed the booking done by his mom under the auspices by the Embassy..... whatever.

The Embassy told us, we could do it all by our little selves, i.e. get the papers, book he flight, put 20k on the desk of airport immigration, and there still would be no guarantee immigration would let him

board the plane... if it's all going to be more or less the same money, I'd rather do it by the book.

And whoever is out there on this forum, I very much doubt there is somebody who knows the present-day procedures better than someone who very likely does it every day, meaning the Embassy.

I sure did ask when opening the thread, but I've made my mind up here. They were professional enough for that.

Good that you made your mind already, but please understand the British embassy has been proven to give inexact advice before, and the reports are here on this forum for anyone to read. As well as the many reports those having a valid travel document, detail on the day on which entered initally, Bt 20,000 in cash, which have left country without problem. That is the only procedure that avoids IDC for sure. I hope that is what the Embassy will help John to do.

Edited September 20, 2015 by paz

[Saradoc1972]

HE'S BACK!!!!

In the UK, that is. None of my doing, but I am betting the farm that contact with the embassy I established did a world of good.

Am presently quizzing him how all of that exactly came to pass. Apparently involved some jail time, but could not be helped, I suppose.

[BritTim]

HE'S BACK!!!!

In the UK, that is. None of my doing, but I am betting the farm that contact with the embassy I established did a world of good.

Am presently quizzing him how all of that exactly came to pass. Apparently involved some jail time, but could not be helped, I suppose.

Following British Embassy advice, I am not surprised it involved jail time. The correct procedure, as explained here, was to avoid IDC and leave via the airport. I have never heard of anyone detained at the airport when able to pay the fine and leave. I will also bet the total cost (including full price ticket on British Airways) ended up being higher. Anyway, too late now.

[Saradoc1972]

HE'S BACK!!!!

In the UK, that is. None of my doing, but I am betting the farm that contact with the embassy I established did a world of good.

Am presently quizzing him how all of that exactly came to pass. Apparently involved some jail time, but could not be helped, I suppose.

Following British Embassy advice, I am not surprised it involved jail time. The correct procedure, as explained here, was to avoid IDC and leave via the airport. I have never heard of anyone detained at the airport when able to pay the fine and leave. I will also bet the total cost (including full price ticket on British Airways) ended up being higher. Anyway, too late now.

Still waiting for his answer, but I very much doubt the Embassy was in any way involved here, i.e. *before* he went to jail, don't know for how long. Might just have been days.

He had, for the last 5 months or so, set his mind on staying in Thailand because he felt he liked it better than Britain, and a new girlfriend... the sort of thing where you can't really change things with any sort of advice.

[ubonjoe]

Several posts that resulted from a off topic post have been removed.

[ubonjoe]

HE'S BACK!!!!

In the UK, that is. None of my doing, but I am betting the farm that contact with the embassy I established did a world of good.

Am presently quizzing him how all of that exactly came to pass. Apparently involved some jail time, but could not be helped, I suppose.

Following British Embassy advice, I am not surprised it involved jail time. The correct procedure, as explained here, was to avoid IDC and leave via the airport. I have never heard of anyone detained at the airport when able to pay the fine and leave. I will also bet the total cost (including full price ticket on British Airways) ended up being higher. Anyway, too late now.

Still waiting for his answer, but I very much doubt the Embassy was in any way involved here, i.e. *before* he went to jail, don't know for how long. Might just have been days.

He had, for the last 5 months or so, set his mind on staying in Thailand because he felt he liked it better than Britain, and a new girlfriend... the sort of thing where you can't really change things with any sort of advice.

There have been several people that I am aware of that have ended up in the immigration detention center due to bad advice from the UK embassy, They told them to go to immigration to sort it out instead of just leaving and paying the fine on the way out of the country.

[Saradoc1972]

It's what I would do in a pinch, but here we had several more factors to consider. Chiefly the money and, again connected to that, the relationship with his family, then the passport.

I was initially phoning up the embassy to check out the procedures getting travel papers and try and time the short stay in Bangkok and the eventual departure after just paying those 20k, it was then they came up with a different option that was worth pursuing due to the family business. But in this case, and with a view how he was behaving early this year, still wanting to stay in Thailand, it's a safe bet the embassy, in the end and despite all prior dealings, only got involved after he got involuntary picked up somewhere and landed in detention.

[johnatong]

HE'S BACK!!!!

In the UK, that is. None of my doing, but I am betting the farm that contact with the embassy I established did a world of good.

Am presently quizzing him how all of that exactly came to pass. Apparently involved some jail time, but could not be helped, I suppose.

Following British Embassy advice, I am not surprised it involved jail time. The correct procedure, as explained here, was to avoid IDC and leave via the airport. I have never heard of anyone detained at the airport when able to pay the fine and leave. I will also bet the total cost (including full price ticket on British Airways) ended up being higher. Anyway, too late now.

Still waiting for his answer, but I very much doubt the Embassy was in any way involved here, i.e. *before* he went to jail, don't know for how long. Might just have been days.

He had, for the last 5 months or so, set his mind on staying in Thailand because he felt he liked it better than Britain, and a new girlfriend... the sort of thing where you can't really change things with any sort of advice.

There have been several people that I am aware of that have ended up in the immigration detention center due to bad advice from the UK embassy, They told them to go to immigration to sort it out instead of just leaving and paying the fine on the way out of the country.

I am aware of similar poor advice being provided by other Embassy's. The Brits are not alone !

Having said that it is unlikely that a low level (probably a Thai local hire) embassy employee would have detailed knowledge of immigration procedures or how to best deal with an overstay situation.

Better advice might be obtained from the duty emergency officer who in the case of the BE can be contacted on +66(0)2 305 8333

[BritTim]

It's what I would do in a pinch, but here we had several more factors to consider. Chiefly the money and, again connected to that, the relationship with his family, then the passport.

I was initially phoning up the embassy to check out the procedures getting travel papers and try and time the short stay in Bangkok and the eventual departure after just paying those 20k, it was then they came up with a different option that was worth pursuing due to the family business. But in this case, and with a view how he was behaving early this year, still wanting to stay in Thailand, it's a safe bet the embassy, in the end and despite all prior dealings, only got involved after he got involuntary picked up somewhere and landed in detention.

If he was unwilling to voluntarily leave the country, there was not much anyone could do.

I understand the family thing. Buying the air ticket (which one can assume will be used for the intended purpose) is one thing. Sending cash for the fine and ETD is another. How does the family know what the cash will really be used for? They may already have had bad experiences in that regard in the past. When I have helped an American friend in the past, I communicated directly with the family to reassure them, but it is not easy.

That said, the cheapest and safest option would have been a cheap ticket to the UK, paying the fine on exit. Once on the deportation track, some jail time and an expensive ticket on national carrier becomes inevitable. If the incarceration at IDC ultimately ended up saving money, maybe it could be regarded as an acceptable trade off. The trouble is that, even with the reduced fine, the total cost ends up quite a bit higher.

[johnatong]

It's what I would do in a pinch, but here we had several more factors to consider. Chiefly the money and, again connected to that, the relationship with his family, then the passport.

I was initially phoning up the embassy to check out the procedures getting travel papers and try and time the short stay in Bangkok and the eventual departure after just paying those 20k, it was then they came up with a different option that was worth pursuing due to the family business. But in this case, and with a view how he was behaving early this year, still wanting to stay in Thailand, it's a safe bet the embassy, in the end and despite all prior dealings, only got involved after he got involuntary picked up somewhere and landed in detention.

If he was unwilling to voluntarily leave the country, there was not much anyone could do.

I understand the family thing. Buying the air ticket (which one can assume will be used for the intended purpose) is one thing. Sending cash for the fine and ETD is another. How does the family know what the cash will really be used for? They may already have had bad experiences in that regard in the past. When I have helped an American friend in the past, I communicated directly with the family to reassure them, but it is not easy.

That said, the cheapest and safest option would have been a cheap ticket to the UK, paying the fine on exit. Once on the deportation track, some jail time and an expensive ticket on national carrier becomes inevitable. If the incarceration at IDC ultimately ended up saving money, maybe it could be regarded as an acceptable trade off. The trouble is that, even with the reduced fine, the total cost ends up quite a bit higher.

The BE will receive cash from relatives and ensure it is spent according to the relatives wishes.

How do I know this ?

I have a friend who is a British Hon Consul who has assisted in many of these 'difficult' cases.

[wooloomooloo]

All very dramatic. I doubt the Embassy were of any help at all, and quite right too. I don't want to be financing losers who have lost their marbles in LOS.

To be honest, I don't care what happened to your friend, "John", after reading his story. He's an idiot.

[BritTim]

It's what I would do in a pinch, but here we had several more factors to consider. Chiefly the money and, again connected to that, the relationship with his family, then the passport.

I was initially phoning up the embassy to check out the procedures getting travel papers and try and time the short stay in Bangkok and the eventual departure after just paying those 20k, it was then they came up with a different option that was worth pursuing due to the family business. But in this case, and with a view how he was behaving early this year, still wanting to stay in Thailand, it's a safe bet the embassy, in the end and despite all prior dealings, only got involved after he got involuntary picked up somewhere and landed in detention.

If he was unwilling to voluntarily leave the country, there was not much anyone could do.

I understand the family thing. Buying the air ticket (which one can assume will be used for the intended purpose) is one thing. Sending cash for the fine and ETD is another. How does the family know what the cash will really be used for? They may already have had bad experiences in that regard in the past. When I have helped an American friend in the past, I communicated directly with the family to reassure them, but it is not easy.

That said, the cheapest and safest option would have been a cheap ticket to the UK, paying the fine on exit. Once on the deportation track, some jail time and an expensive ticket on national carrier becomes inevitable. If the incarceration at IDC ultimately ended up saving money, maybe it could be regarded as an acceptable trade off. The trouble is that, even with the reduced fine, the total cost ends up quite a bit higher.

The BE will receive cash from relatives and ensure it is spent according to the relatives wishes.

How do I know this ?

I have a friend who is a British Hon Consul who has assisted in many of these 'difficult' cases.

That is true. The embassy can be a useful and credible escrow agent, as long as you know to avoid their advice on how to handle departure.

[johnatong]

It's what I would do in a pinch, but here we had several more factors to consider. Chiefly the money and, again connected to that, the relationship with his family, then the passport.

I was initially phoning up the embassy to check out the procedures getting travel papers and try and time the short stay in Bangkok and the eventual departure after just paying those 20k, it was then they came up with a different option that was worth pursuing due to the family business. But in this case, and with a view how he was behaving early this year, still wanting to stay in Thailand, it's a safe bet the embassy, in the end and despite all prior dealings, only got involved after he got involuntary picked up somewhere and landed in detention.

If he was unwilling to voluntarily leave the country, there was not much anyone could do.

I understand the family thing. Buying the air ticket (which one can assume will be used for the intended purpose) is one thing. Sending cash for the fine and ETD is another. How does the family know what the cash will really be used for? They may already have had bad experiences in that regard in the past. When I have helped an American friend in the past, I communicated directly with the family to reassure them, but it is not easy.

That said, the cheapest and safest option would have been a cheap ticket to the UK, paying the fine on exit. Once on the deportation track, some jail time and an expensive ticket on national carrier becomes inevitable. If the incarceration at IDC ultimately ended up saving money, maybe it could be regarded as an acceptable trade off. The trouble is that, even with the reduced fine, the total cost ends up quite a bit higher.

The BE will receive cash from relatives and ensure it is spent according to the relatives wishes.

How do I know this ?

I have a friend who is a British Hon Consul who has assisted in many of these 'difficult' cases.

That is true. The embassy can be a useful and credible escrow agent, as long as you know to avoid their advice on how to handle departure.

Tim. It depends on who the "advice" is sought from ------------see my earlier post.

My Hon. Con. friend provides good advise to those who will listen.