Do they want farang retirees here?

[Cypress Hill]

Calling me a troll over and over again doesn't make it so, y'know?

Anyway, look - anyone reading what you've written will quickly surmise that you're not someone worth engaging in intelligent discourse with because you don't really know what you're talking about.

But at least you'll give people a chuckle with your 7% GDP!

[lostoday]

Calling me a troll over and over again doesn't make it so, y'know?

Anyway, look - anyone reading what you've written will quickly surmise that you're not someone worth engaging in intelligent discourse with because you don't really know what you're talking about.

But at least you'll give people a chuckle with your 7% GDP!

Feel free to present any different data. Or anyone else. I just told you how to calculate an accurate result.

[Soutpeel]

So you and a couple of old wheezers you know spend a million baht a year (only £20,000; $30,000) and that means ALL retirees are spending the same or more?

If that's the case, why are all those visa "agents" inundated with requests from pensioners needing help meeting the 800K requirement.

I don't know of any agents who get requests and I think it is a myth. But quit your complaining. If you want to know do the math. I did and I told you the results.

For your information I have a very active social life and belong to many organizations in Thailand and know thousands of retirees in my capacity of an adviser to certain segments of our retired population.

PM JT and ask him to do a survey if you want to know or do one yourself. Why do you care anyway? Why not just take my word for it? What difference does it make to you?

Well actually the myth you refer to i have seen " advertised" by agents and further seen questions about said agents on TV, so it seems there appears to be some truth to the myth, further one would question the realibilty of any survey on TV of this kind as one would suspect many would lie anyway skewing any data anyway

Why would an old guy lie in an anonymous internet survey? Maybe you are judging people by yourself but it's my experience as men age they don't give a darn what people think of them.

The confidence level of 90% and the plus or minus 5% accuracy takes into consideration the factors of reliability among others.

I would suggest that because the real data is available our younger Thai Visa members are hesitant to accept the reality of the nice place Thailand is for older gentlemen and the substantial contribution the older set makes to Thailand.

I would interpret a hesitation to attempt such a survey more fear than anything else and actually having to admit what a large economic influence the grey haired charmers are.

Oh dear calling me a liar for stating the bloody obvious, all your confidence levels and accuracy data would mean nothing if your source data is flawed to start with

having looked at some of surveys done on TV before, one can state with a high degree of probability and confidence people lie, including the older gentlemen

fact is numerous people in many posts on TV have been caught out with their lies over the years

Again the same challange define " large economic influnce"

[Soutpeel]

So you and a couple of old wheezers you know spend a million baht a year (only £20,000; $30,000) and that means ALL retirees are spending the same or more?

If that's the case, why are all those visa "agents" inundated with requests from pensioners needing help meeting the 800K requirement.

I don't know of any agents who get requests and I think it is a myth. But quit your complaining. If you want to know do the math. I did and I told you the results.

For your information I have a very active social life and belong to many organizations in Thailand and know thousands of retirees in my capacity of an adviser to certain segments of our retired population.

PM JT and ask him to do a survey if you want to know or do one yourself. Why do you care anyway? Why not just take my word for it? What difference does it make to you?

You should change your username to "lostouch" - that's how severe these delusions of grandeur appear to any rational human.

I don't need to do the math - the daft $45 billion number you pulled out of your bottom in an earlier post told me all I need to know about what looks like your very tenuous grip on reality

Like I said all bluster and no facts. I did the survey and the contribution of old guys to the Thai economy is close to 7% of GDP. You can call me names all you like. Kind of kindergarten though.

I can imagine an eight grade cypress hill telling the math teacher, "I don't need to do the math."

Call me a liar all you like but you offer nothing more than your highly suspect prejudiced opinion.

7% of the GDP

lost touch couldnt be a truer user name LOL

[lostoday]

You should change your username to "lostouch" - that's how severe these delusions of grandeur appear to any rational human.

I don't need to do the math - the daft $45 billion number you pulled out of your bottom in an earlier post told me all I need to know about what looks like your very tenuous grip on reality

Like I said all bluster and no facts. I did the survey and the contribution of old guys to the Thai economy is close to 7% of GDP. You can call me names all you like. Kind of kindergarten though.

I can imagine an eight grade cypress hill telling the math teacher, "I don't need to do the math."

Call me a liar all you like but you offer nothing more than your highly suspect prejudiced opinion.

7% of the GDP

lost touch couldnt be a truer user name LOL

Bluster bluster bluster. It is easy to calculate. But you present no data only your own uneducated opinion. Why should anyone believe you? Do a survey instead of the institutionalization of name calling as a legitimate Thai Visa debate response.

Do you realize it only works in kindergarten or Thai Visa?

[Soutpeel]

Calling me a troll over and over again doesn't make it so, y'know?

Anyway, look - anyone reading what you've written will quickly surmise that you're not someone worth engaging in intelligent discourse with because you don't really know what you're talking about.

But at least you'll give people a chuckle with your 7% GDP!

Feel free to present any different data. Or anyone else. I just told you how to calculate an accurate result.

Your obviously know the saying about statistics and lies ?

[lostoday]

Thailand GDP - composition by sector:

agriculture: 12.1%

industry: 43.6%

services: 44.2% (2013 est.)

Definition: This entry gives the percentage contribution of agriculture, industry, and services to total GDP. The distribution will total less than 100 percent if the data are incomplete.

Source: CIA World Factbook - This page was last updated on June 30, 2015

Missing 50% of the revenue. Do you know where? Or do you want me to tell you? PS. It would help if you put a number on the GDP Plus you are attacking me backwards by saying my numbers are wrong because yours are correct while not mentioning my numbers. What is the contribution of retirees living in Thailand listed under? Agriculture, Services or Industry?

Edited September 9, 2015 by lostoday

[pmarlowe]

Been trying to find reliable numbers of retirees and expats but it seems there is no good source. However, based on googling (God help us) various sources the 200,000 figure might be OK. However, that number would include European, American, Australian New Zealander, Japanese and maybe Indian (not the millions of Burmese, Cambodians, indigenous hill people etc.

The rub is that the number probably includes working expats as well as retirees. But I suspect the baht spent on goods services and taxes by these 200,000 is in fact a significant contribution when you consider the most Thais (those not in the 1 percent) earn from 6000-50000 baht per month (again based on internet sources that can no way be validated). How significant, we'll probably never know. There doesn't appear to be a clear answer but I suspect the cash generated by this group is more than welcome.

Trying to calculate the retiree portion in all this seems impossible as pensions vary as do the level of savings some retirees have been able to accumulate along with any income generating portfolio instruments they may have.

So I think we're welcomed, just as any "found money" would be welcome. But are we encouraged or provided incentives (other than the ones we provide ourselves) I am not so sure.

Edited September 9, 2015 by pmarlowe

[Soutpeel]

Been trying to find reliable numbers of retirees and expats but it seems there is no good source. However, based on googling (God help us) various sources the 200,000 figure might be OK. However, that number would include European, American, Australian New Zealander, Japanese and maybe Indian (not the millions of Burmese, Cambodians, indigenous hill people etc.

The rub is that the number probably includes working expats as well as retirees. But I suspect the baht spent on goods services and taxes by these 200,000 is in fact a significant contribution when you consider the most Thais (those not in the 1 percent) earn from 6000-50000 baht per month (again based on internet sources that can no way be validated). How significant, we'll probably never know. There doesn't appear to be a clear answer but I suspect the cash generated by this group is more than welcome.

Trying to calculate the retiree portion in all this seems impossible as pensions vary as do the level of savings some retirees have been able to accumulate along with any income generating portfolio instruments they may have.

So I think we're welcomed, just as any "found money" would be welcome. But are we encouraged or provided incentives (other than the ones we provide ourselves) I am not so sure.

Ok but as a sane and rational person do you believe the retirees contribution is 7% of the GDP ? And i stress retiree not someone working here or working elsewhere ?

[Soutpeel]

Thailand GDP - composition by sector:

agriculture: 12.1%

industry: 43.6%

services: 44.2% (2013 est.)

Definition: This entry gives the percentage contribution of agriculture, industry, and services to total GDP. The distribution will total less than 100 percent if the data are incomplete.

Source: CIA World Factbook - This page was last updated on June 30, 2015

Missing 50% of the revenue. Do you know where? Or do you want me to tell you? PS. It would help if you put a number on the GDP Plus you are attacking me backwards by saying my numbers are wrong because yours are correct while not mentioning my numbers. What is the contribution of retirees living in Thailand listed under? Agriculture, Services or Industry?

How much does the average retiree spend in Thailand pa without your misleading multiplier of "10"

You have all the data should be easy

http://www.investopedia.com/video/play/multiplier-effect/

You have to have a basic understanding of economics to understand basic economics. Not my fault it's just how it is.

I gave you a simple survey method above to determine how much a retiree spends in Thailand. Post a survey and find out. Why ask me. You don't believe me anyway and only want to call me names.

Funny that i did Ecomonics as a subject for a few years

Now back to my question how much does the average retiree spend on an annual basis in Thailand, you stated 7% of the GDP so to make that assumption you must know

So what is the USD number pa without muliplers and other manipulation of the data...you seem to be avoiding the question

[JLCrab]

Thailand GDP - composition by sector:

agriculture: 12.1%

industry: 43.6%

services: 44.2% (2013 est.)

Definition: This entry gives the percentage contribution of agriculture, industry, and services to total GDP. The distribution will total less than 100 percent if the data are incomplete.

Source: CIA World Factbook - This page was last updated on June 30, 2015

Missing 50% of the revenue. Do you know where? Or do you want me to tell you? PS. It would help if you put a number on the GDP Plus you are attacking me backwards by saying my numbers are wrong because yours are correct while not mentioning my numbers. What is the contribution of retirees living in Thailand listed under? Agriculture, Services or Industry?

Services would include Banking/Finance, Insurance, Retail, Tourism/Hospitality, Transportation/ Distribution. If the entire Agricultural Sector is 12% of GDP then I don't see how retirees contribution to GDP could be 7%.

[pmarlowe]

pmarlowe, on 09 Sept 2015 - 20:17, said:

Been trying to find reliable numbers of retirees and expats but it seems there is no good source. However, based on googling (God help us) various sources the 200,000 figure might be OK. However, that number would include European, American, Australian New Zealander, Japanese and maybe Indian (not the millions of Burmese, Cambodians, indigenous hill people etc.

The rub is that the number probably includes working expats as well as retirees. But I suspect the baht spent on goods services and taxes by these 200,000 is in fact a significant contribution when you consider the most Thais (those not in the 1 percent) earn from 6000-50000 baht per month (again based on internet sources that can no way be validated). How significant, we'll probably never know. There doesn't appear to be a clear answer but I suspect the cash generated by this group is more than welcome.

Trying to calculate the retiree portion in all this seems impossible as pensions vary as do the level of savings some retirees have been able to accumulate along with any income generating portfolio instruments they may have.

So I think we're welcomed, just as any "found money" would be welcome. But are we encouraged or provided incentives (other than the ones we provide ourselves) I am not so sure.

Ok but as a sane and rational person do you believe the retirees contribution is 7% of the GDP ? And i stress retiree not someone working here or working elsewhere ?

• Like This

To be honest, I can't see anything that gets us to that 7% of total GDP. I am not an economist but it just doesn't hunt based on the estimated number of expats (total 200k as qualified above), and which I gather would be substantially reduced if to include only retirees. I just don't think there is any way to get to that 7% figure based on what i have been reading, especially relating to only the retirees.

If you think about it in terms of per capita GDP in Thailand, which is around 14000 USD per year...any "found money" is welcome. Probably not welcome enough to change policy -- but a gift nevertheless. So I stand by my earlier post...I think the answer to the question by the Thai government is "mmmm. we like the extra cash but we are otherwise ambivalent."

[lostoday]

Fact you don't know what the multiplier effect is of new money. Fact you are uneducated about the multiplier effect of new money which is a basic term of economics.

The multiplier effect is an economic term referring to how an increase in one economic activity can cause an increase throughout many other related economic activities.

http://www.investopedia.com/video/play/multiplier-effect/

Don't get hacked off at me. I know what it is you don't. So read and/or watch and learn.

You've got just enough knowledge to be dangerous.

That doesn't apply to money parked in a Thai account to satisfy criteria for a retirement visa/extension since it rarely makes its way into the economy.

How many Western men over 50 are retired in Thailand? We have to agree on that first.

[elviajero]

Fact you don't know what the multiplier effect is of new money. Fact you are uneducated about the multiplier effect of new money which is a basic term of economics.

The multiplier effect is an economic term referring to how an increase in one economic activity can cause an increase throughout many other related economic activities.

http://www.investopedia.com/video/play/multiplier-effect/

Don't get hacked off at me. I know what it is you don't. So read and/or watch and learn.

You've got just enough knowledge to be dangerous.

That doesn't apply to money parked in a Thai account to satisfy criteria for a retirement visa/extension since it rarely makes its way into the economy.

How many Western men over 50 are retired in Thailand? We have to agree on that first.

10

[lostoday]

pmarlowe, on 09 Sept 2015 - 20:17, said:

Been trying to find reliable numbers of retirees and expats but it seems there is no good source. However, based on googling (God help us) various sources the 200,000 figure might be OK. However, that number would include European, American, Australian New Zealander, Japanese and maybe Indian (not the millions of Burmese, Cambodians, indigenous hill people etc.

The rub is that the number probably includes working expats as well as retirees. But I suspect the baht spent on goods services and taxes by these 200,000 is in fact a significant contribution when you consider the most Thais (those not in the 1 percent) earn from 6000-50000 baht per month (again based on internet sources that can no way be validated). How significant, we'll probably never know. There doesn't appear to be a clear answer but I suspect the cash generated by this group is more than welcome.

Trying to calculate the retiree portion in all this seems impossible as pensions vary as do the level of savings some retirees have been able to accumulate along with any income generating portfolio instruments they may have.

So I think we're welcomed, just as any "found money" would be welcome. But are we encouraged or provided incentives (other than the ones we provide ourselves) I am not so sure.

Ok but as a sane and rational person do you believe the retirees contribution is 7% of the GDP ? And i stress retiree not someone working here or working elsewhere ?

• Like This

To be honest, I can't see anything that gets us to that 7% of total GDP. I am not an economist but it just doesn't hunt based on the estimated number of expats (total 200k as qualified above), and which I gather would be substantially reduced if to include only retirees. I just don't think there is any way to get to that 7% figure based on what i have been reading, especially relating to only the retirees.

If you think about it in terms of per capita GDP in Thailand, which is around 14000 USD per year...any "found money" is welcome. Probably not welcome enough to change policy -- but a gift nevertheless. So I stand by my earlier post...I think the answer to the question by the Thai government is "mmmm. we like the extra cash but we are otherwise ambivalent."

I live in Thailand and know another 1000 retirees who live in Thailand through organizations I belong to. I think they all spend about 1 million baht per year.

Feel free to disagree based on any kind of real experience or take a survey.

Keep in mind that only 50 or 60% of the real GDP is reported because of Thailand's large grey economy. For example where is it reported when a retiree buys his wife a 3 million baht home (happens once a minute on Thai Visa). Where is it reported that the retiree buys the whole family motorcycles and puts all the kids through private school and the daughters through college (happens once a minute on TV)?

[CharlieH]

This is not an economics class/debate. Off topic derailing posts have been removed as have the "bickering" posts.

[Soutpeel]

pmarlowe, on 09 Sept 2015 - 20:17, said:

Been trying to find reliable numbers of retirees and expats but it seems there is no good source. However, based on googling (God help us) various sources the 200,000 figure might be OK. However, that number would include European, American, Australian New Zealander, Japanese and maybe Indian (not the millions of Burmese, Cambodians, indigenous hill people etc.

The rub is that the number probably includes working expats as well as retirees. But I suspect the baht spent on goods services and taxes by these 200,000 is in fact a significant contribution when you consider the most Thais (those not in the 1 percent) earn from 6000-50000 baht per month (again based on internet sources that can no way be validated). How significant, we'll probably never know. There doesn't appear to be a clear answer but I suspect the cash generated by this group is more than welcome.

Trying to calculate the retiree portion in all this seems impossible as pensions vary as do the level of savings some retirees have been able to accumulate along with any income generating portfolio instruments they may have.

So I think we're welcomed, just as any "found money" would be welcome. But are we encouraged or provided incentives (other than the ones we provide ourselves) I am not so sure.

Ok but as a sane and rational person do you believe the retirees contribution is 7% of the GDP ? And i stress retiree not someone working here or working elsewhere ?

• Like This

To be honest, I can't see anything that gets us to that 7% of total GDP. I am not an economist but it just doesn't hunt based on the estimated number of expats (total 200k as qualified above), and which I gather would be substantially reduced if to include only retirees. I just don't think there is any way to get to that 7% figure based on what i have been reading, especially relating to only the retirees.

If you think about it in terms of per capita GDP in Thailand, which is around 14000 USD per year...any "found money" is welcome. Probably not welcome enough to change policy -- but a gift nevertheless. So I stand by my earlier post...I think the answer to the question by the Thai government is "mmmm. we like the extra cash but we are otherwise ambivalent."

Thank you a sane and reasonable a

Post and would think the average retiree kicks in around USD 25 to 30k a year

Edited September 9, 2015 by Soutpeel

[Soutpeel]

Fact you don't know what the multiplier effect is of new money. Fact you are uneducated about the multiplier effect of new money which is a basic term of economics.

The multiplier effect is an economic term referring to how an increase in one economic activity can cause an increase throughout many other related economic activities.

http://www.investopedia.com/video/play/multiplier-effect/

Don't get hacked off at me. I know what it is you don't. So read and/or watch and learn.

You've got just enough knowledge to be dangerous.

That doesn't apply to money parked in a Thai account to satisfy criteria for a retirement visa/extension since it rarely makes its way into the economy.

How many Western men over 50 are retired in Thailand? We have to agree on that first.

Not counting those who have retirement visas cos they are ovet 50 but are working in other countries of course Edited September 9, 2015 by Soutpeel

[lostoday]

Thailand want's retirees to live here because of the substantial contribution they make to the local economy. They do this in a number of ways, buying property, educating children, starting family businesses, buying farms and orchards and all kinds of money making enterprises with money brought in from outside Thailand or foreign investment. In the same way and for the same reasons Thailand strives for foreign investment it strives for retirees because they are a means of introducing hard currencies into the Thai economy. This process is facilitated by requiring a minimum being kept on account in a Thai bank.

I think we can assume that most of the retired persons living here open Thai bank accounts because of the traffic on Thai Visa about opening a Thai bank account and the volume of questions about the processes of obtaining a retirement extension.

The major difference between the retired guy and working guy is 100% of the retired guys income that he spends in Thailand comes from outside of Thailand whereas the employed person's money comes from inside Thailand. All of the advantages of foreign currency deposits are applied to the retired persons expenditures.

The income that retired persons spend is not accounted for under any of the categories reported by the TAT of Thailand.

How much money do Thai people over 50 spend? How much money do Americans retired in Thailand spend? I have suggested a way to find out but I guess no one really wants to know.

Edited September 9, 2015 by lostoday

[lostoday]

Fact you don't know what the multiplier effect is of new money. Fact you are uneducated about the multiplier effect of new money which is a basic term of economics.

The multiplier effect is an economic term referring to how an increase in one economic activity can cause an increase throughout many other related economic activities.

http://www.investopedia.com/video/play/multiplier-effect/

Don't get hacked off at me. I know what it is you don't. So read and/or watch and learn.

You've got just enough knowledge to be dangerous.

That doesn't apply to money parked in a Thai account to satisfy criteria for a retirement visa/extension since it rarely makes its way into the economy.

How many Western men over 50 are retired in Thailand? We have to agree on that first.

Not counting those who have retirement visas cos they are ovet 50 but are working in other countries of course

As Thailand counts people they would also be retired. How are they treated any different? All retired persons work in another country in one way or another; work being getting a paycheck for services rendered in the past or present. A retired person is a person on a retirement visa/extension.

Edited September 9, 2015 by lostoday

[Soutpeel]

Thailand want's retirees to live here because of the substantial contribution they make to the local economy. They do this in a number of ways, buying property, educating children, starting family businesses, buying farms and orchards and all kinds of money making enterprises with money brought in from outside Thailand or foreign investment. In the same way and for the same reasons Thailand strives for foreign investment it strives for retirees because they are a means of introducing hard currencies into the Thai economy. This process is facilitated by requiring a minimum being kept on account in a Thai bank.

I think we can assume that most of the retired persons living here open Thai bank accounts because of the traffic on Thai Visa about opening a Thai bank account and the volume of questions about the processes of obtaining a retirement extension.

The major difference between the retired guy and working guy is 100% of the retired guys income that he spends in Thailand comes from outside of Thailand whereas the employed person's money comes from inside Thailand. All of the advantages of foreign currency deposits are applied to the retired persons expenditures.

LOL doesnt give up, foreigners who are not retired are married or are working here/ own business' do exactly the same and typically more so what your listing are hardly unique to retiree's

[lostoday]

Thailand want's retirees to live here because of the substantial contribution they make to the local economy. They do this in a number of ways, buying property, educating children, starting family businesses, buying farms and orchards and all kinds of money making enterprises with money brought in from outside Thailand or foreign investment. In the same way and for the same reasons Thailand strives for foreign investment it strives for retirees because they are a means of introducing hard currencies into the Thai economy. This process is facilitated by requiring a minimum being kept on account in a Thai bank.

I think we can assume that most of the retired persons living here open Thai bank accounts because of the traffic on Thai Visa about opening a Thai bank account and the volume of questions about the processes of obtaining a retirement extension.

The major difference between the retired guy and working guy is 100% of the retired guys income that he spends in Thailand comes from outside of Thailand whereas the employed person's money comes from inside Thailand. All of the advantages of foreign currency deposits are applied to the retired persons expenditures.

LOL doesnt give up, foreigners who are not retired are married or are working here/ own business' do exactly the same and typically more so what your listing are hardly unique to retiree's

Not true. They use Thai resources to make a product to sell maybe export maybe domestic. Retirees 100% import hard currency funds.

I have a friend who is a gas inspector. He gets paid Thai dollars for replacing a Thai employee who has not been trained to his level. The Thai money he gets he exports to his home accounts because his expense money covers his daily expenses. He is a parasite on the Thai economy where as the retiree only contributes and takes nothing away.

[elviajero]

Thailand want's retirees to live here because of the substantial contribution they make to the local economy. They do this in a number of ways, buying property, educating children, starting family businesses, buying farms and orchards and all kinds of money making enterprises with money brought in from outside Thailand or foreign investment. In the same way and for the same reasons Thailand strives for foreign investment it strives for retirees because they are a means of introducing hard currencies into the Thai economy. This process is facilitated by requiring a minimum being kept on account in a Thai bank.

I think we can assume that most of the retired persons living here open Thai bank accounts because of the traffic on Thai Visa about opening a Thai bank account and the volume of questions about the processes of obtaining a retirement extension.

The major difference between the retired guy and working guy is 100% of the retired guys income that he spends in Thailand comes from outside of Thailand whereas the employed person's money comes from inside Thailand. All of the advantages of foreign currency deposits are applied to the retired persons expenditures.

The income that retired persons spend is not accounted for under any of the categories reported by the TAT of Thailand.

How much money do Thai people over 50 spend? How much money do Americans retired in Thailand spend? I have suggested a way to find out but I guess no one really wants to know.

I think everyone understands that those over 50 living here and not working contribute new money.

The problem you have is that you have no idea how many people qualify for you calculation and can only guess at their average spending, and do you know Thailand's GDP?

[lostoday]

Thailand want's retirees to live here because of the substantial contribution they make to the local economy. They do this in a number of ways, buying property, educating children, starting family businesses, buying farms and orchards and all kinds of money making enterprises with money brought in from outside Thailand or foreign investment. In the same way and for the same reasons Thailand strives for foreign investment it strives for retirees because they are a means of introducing hard currencies into the Thai economy. This process is facilitated by requiring a minimum being kept on account in a Thai bank.

I think we can assume that most of the retired persons living here open Thai bank accounts because of the traffic on Thai Visa about opening a Thai bank account and the volume of questions about the processes of obtaining a retirement extension.

The major difference between the retired guy and working guy is 100% of the retired guys income that he spends in Thailand comes from outside of Thailand whereas the employed person's money comes from inside Thailand. All of the advantages of foreign currency deposits are applied to the retired persons expenditures.

The income that retired persons spend is not accounted for under any of the categories reported by the TAT of Thailand.

How much money do Thai people over 50 spend? How much money do Americans retired in Thailand spend? I have suggested a way to find out but I guess no one really wants to know.

I think everyone understands that those over 50 living here and not working contribute new money.

The problem you have is that you have no idea how many people qualify for you calculation and can only guess at their average spending, and do you know Thailand's GDP?

An earlier poster used the figure of 200,000 as provided by the Thai government and I suggested doing a survey to determine how much they spent. For a population of 200,000 one would only need 270 for an accurate survey.

5,778.98 USD (2013) Thailand/GDP per capita

No. 7 Biggest Shadow Economy: Thailand

Percent of GDP in Shadow Economy: 57.2

Official GDP: $538.6 billion

http://www.bloomberg.com/ss/10/07/0729_worlds_biggest_shadow_economy/8.htm

Edited September 9, 2015 by lostoday

[Oceanbat]

Thailand want's retirees to live here because of the substantial contribution they make to the local economy. They do this in a number of ways, buying property, educating children, starting family businesses, buying farms and orchards and all kinds of money making enterprises with money brought in from outside Thailand or foreign investment. In the same way and for the same reasons Thailand strives for foreign investment it strives for retirees because they are a means of introducing hard currencies into the Thai economy. This process is facilitated by requiring a minimum being kept on account in a Thai bank.

I think we can assume that most of the retired persons living here open Thai bank accounts because of the traffic on Thai Visa about opening a Thai bank account and the volume of questions about the processes of obtaining a retirement extension.

The major difference between the retired guy and working guy is 100% of the retired guys income that he spends in Thailand comes from outside of Thailand whereas the employed person's money comes from inside Thailand. All of the advantages of foreign currency deposits are applied to the retired persons expenditures.

The income that retired persons spend is not accounted for under any of the categories reported by the TAT of Thailand.

How much money do Thai people over 50 spend? How much money do Americans retired in Thailand spend? I have suggested a way to find out but I guess no one really wants to know.

I think everyone understands that those over 50 living here and not working contribute new money.

The problem you have is that you have no idea how many people qualify for you calculation and can only guess at their average spending, and do you know Thailand's GDP?

An earlier poster used the figure of 200,000 as provided by the Thai government and I suggested doing a survey to determine how much they spent. For a population of 200,000 one would only need 270 for an accurate survey.

200k expats though yeah? The vast bulk of whom would be Japanese working here and paying taxes. So they probably do contribute a bit. More than retirees for sure.

OB

[lostoday]

Thailand want's retirees to live here because of the substantial contribution they make to the local economy. They do this in a number of ways, buying property, educating children, starting family businesses, buying farms and orchards and all kinds of money making enterprises with money brought in from outside Thailand or foreign investment. In the same way and for the same reasons Thailand strives for foreign investment it strives for retirees because they are a means of introducing hard currencies into the Thai economy. This process is facilitated by requiring a minimum being kept on account in a Thai bank.

I think we can assume that most of the retired persons living here open Thai bank accounts because of the traffic on Thai Visa about opening a Thai bank account and the volume of questions about the processes of obtaining a retirement extension.

The major difference between the retired guy and working guy is 100% of the retired guys income that he spends in Thailand comes from outside of Thailand whereas the employed person's money comes from inside Thailand. All of the advantages of foreign currency deposits are applied to the retired persons expenditures.

The income that retired persons spend is not accounted for under any of the categories reported by the TAT of Thailand.

How much money do Thai people over 50 spend? How much money do Americans retired in Thailand spend? I have suggested a way to find out but I guess no one really wants to know.

I think everyone understands that those over 50 living here and not working contribute new money.

The problem you have is that you have no idea how many people qualify for you calculation and can only guess at their average spending, and do you know Thailand's GDP?

An earlier poster used the figure of 200,000 as provided by the Thai government and I suggested doing a survey to determine how much they spent. For a population of 200,000 one would only need 270 for an accurate survey.

200k expats though yeah? The vast bulk of whom would be Japanese working here and paying taxes. So they probably do contribute a bit. More than retirees for sure.

OB

How do you figure? Retiree me; I contribute 1 million baht per year. Japanese man how much in money from outside Thailand spent in Thailand? Doesn't he get paid for work performed in Thailand with native Thai dollars and Thai raw materials?

[Oceanbat]

Thailand want's retirees to live here because of the substantial contribution they make to the local economy. They do this in a number of ways, buying property, educating children, starting family businesses, buying farms and orchards and all kinds of money making enterprises with money brought in from outside Thailand or foreign investment. In the same way and for the same reasons Thailand strives for foreign investment it strives for retirees because they are a means of introducing hard currencies into the Thai economy. This process is facilitated by requiring a minimum being kept on account in a Thai bank.

I think we can assume that most of the retired persons living here open Thai bank accounts because of the traffic on Thai Visa about opening a Thai bank account and the volume of questions about the processes of obtaining a retirement extension.

The major difference between the retired guy and working guy is 100% of the retired guys income that he spends in Thailand comes from outside of Thailand whereas the employed person's money comes from inside Thailand. All of the advantages of foreign currency deposits are applied to the retired persons expenditures.

The income that retired persons spend is not accounted for under any of the categories reported by the TAT of Thailand.

How much money do Thai people over 50 spend? How much money do Americans retired in Thailand spend? I have suggested a way to find out but I guess no one really wants to know.

I think everyone understands that those over 50 living here and not working contribute new money.

The problem you have is that you have no idea how many people qualify for you calculation and can only guess at their average spending, and do you know Thailand's GDP?

An earlier poster used the figure of 200,000 as provided by the Thai government and I suggested doing a survey to determine how much they spent. For a population of 200,000 one would only need 270 for an accurate survey.

200k expats though yeah? The vast bulk of whom would be Japanese working here and paying taxes. So they probably do contribute a bit. More than retirees for sure.

OB

How do you figure? Retiree me; I contribute 1 million baht per year. Japanese man how much in money from outside Thailand spent in Thailand? Doesn't he get paid for work performed in Thailand with native Thai dollars and Thai raw materials?

Well, by being here I'd say first up his company has probably invested here. I'd wager they earn more than most retirees as well as create more jobs. They all certainly have drivers. They would also probably be paying the highest rate of tax which is 35%. Don't get me wrong I do think retirees add to the economy. But I'm pretty sure the Thai government values its Japanese friends more. With good reason.

OB

[elviajero]

Thailand want's retirees to live here because of the substantial contribution they make to the local economy. They do this in a number of ways, buying property, educating children, starting family businesses, buying farms and orchards and all kinds of money making enterprises with money brought in from outside Thailand or foreign investment. In the same way and for the same reasons Thailand strives for foreign investment it strives for retirees because they are a means of introducing hard currencies into the Thai economy. This process is facilitated by requiring a minimum being kept on account in a Thai bank.

I think we can assume that most of the retired persons living here open Thai bank accounts because of the traffic on Thai Visa about opening a Thai bank account and the volume of questions about the processes of obtaining a retirement extension.

The major difference between the retired guy and working guy is 100% of the retired guys income that he spends in Thailand comes from outside of Thailand whereas the employed person's money comes from inside Thailand. All of the advantages of foreign currency deposits are applied to the retired persons expenditures.

The income that retired persons spend is not accounted for under any of the categories reported by the TAT of Thailand.

How much money do Thai people over 50 spend? How much money do Americans retired in Thailand spend? I have suggested a way to find out but I guess no one really wants to know.

I think everyone understands that those over 50 living here and not working contribute new money.

The problem you have is that you have no idea how many people qualify for you calculation and can only guess at their average spending, and do you know Thailand's GDP?

An earlier poster used the figure of 200,000 as provided by the Thai government and I suggested doing a survey to determine how much they spent. For a population of 200,000 one would only need 270 for an accurate survey.

5,778.98 USD (2013) [/size]Thailand[/size]/GDP per capita[/size]

No. 7 Biggest Shadow Economy: Thailand

Percent of GDP in Shadow Economy: 57.2

Official GDP: $538.6 billion

http://www.bloomberg.com/ss/10/07/0729_worlds_biggest_shadow_economy/8.htm

I think that the 200k figure was all expats and not just retirees. But lets go with that number.

If I understand you correctly you were claiming that 200,000 retirees contribute 7% of GDP. If GDP is $538 billion (no idea if thats right) then 7% would equal $37,660,000,000 which divided by 200,000 would equal $188,300 per expat/retiree. At an approximate exchange rate that equals 6.7 million Baht per person.

That number seems a bit off to me.

[lostoday]

Thailand want's retirees to live here because of the substantial contribution they make to the local economy. They do this in a number of ways, buying property, educating children, starting family businesses, buying farms and orchards and all kinds of money making enterprises with money brought in from outside Thailand or foreign investment. In the same way and for the same reasons Thailand strives for foreign investment it strives for retirees because they are a means of introducing hard currencies into the Thai economy. This process is facilitated by requiring a minimum being kept on account in a Thai bank.

I think we can assume that most of the retired persons living here open Thai bank accounts because of the traffic on Thai Visa about opening a Thai bank account and the volume of questions about the processes of obtaining a retirement extension.

The major difference between the retired guy and working guy is 100% of the retired guys income that he spends in Thailand comes from outside of Thailand whereas the employed person's money comes from inside Thailand. All of the advantages of foreign currency deposits are applied to the retired persons expenditures.

The income that retired persons spend is not accounted for under any of the categories reported by the TAT of Thailand.

How much money do Thai people over 50 spend? How much money do Americans retired in Thailand spend? I have suggested a way to find out but I guess no one really wants to know.

I think everyone understands that those over 50 living here and not working contribute new money.

The problem you have is that you have no idea how many people qualify for you calculation and can only guess at their average spending, and do you know Thailand's GDP?

An earlier poster used the figure of 200,000 as provided by the Thai government and I suggested doing a survey to determine how much they spent. For a population of 200,000 one would only need 270 for an accurate survey.

5,778.98 USD (2013) [/size]Thailand[/size]/GDP per capita[/size]

No. 7 Biggest Shadow Economy: Thailand

Percent of GDP in Shadow Economy: 57.2

Official GDP: $538.6 billion

http://www.bloomberg.com/ss/10/07/0729_worlds_biggest_shadow_economy/8.htm

I think that the 200k figure was all expats and not just retirees. But lets go with that number.

If I understand you correctly you were claiming that 200,000 retirees contribute 7% of GDP. If GDP is $538 billion (no idea if thats right) then 7% would equal $37,660,000,000 which divided by 200,000 would equal $188,300 per expat/retiree. At an approximate exchange rate that equals 6.7 million Baht per person.

That number seems a bit off to me.

Moderator said I was not supposed to tell people about the multiplier effect on new money. But if you want to look it up google multiplier effect on money and that will explain the calculation.

[spidermike007]

with all respect that may be more of a personal opinion rather than govt policy. Same as Ur treatment at immigration probably more a reflection of the individual or general work ethic of govt "service" depts. I have to say most at Khonkaen office brilliant and actually seem to enjoy their day.

The govt must have some policy or outlook towards retirees. It must boost the economy / modernise the locale in some areas and that seems to be what they want now.

Where I come from actions speak louder that words. Successive governments have done very little to get rid of the pointless bureaucracy and inefficient procedures that make life unpleasant for expats.

Sheryl in a recent post mentioned how it took her several days of travel and effort for each annual extension. Another poster said he was suddenly faced, after 10 years of married life here with loads of additional requirements for extension, including intrusive questioning into his sex life. When I did my last extension at Chaeng Wattana (which only took 7 hours of waiting), there was an elderly, very frail man in a wheelchair. He arrived after me, by which time the queue had built up even more. It's simply inhumane treatment and shows official contempt for the service users. If I had to point to improvements over the last ten years I can only think of a few that have benefited me: opening more provincial offices, appointment booking for extensions at Chaeng Wattana (which worked for less than a month before being scrapped), 90 day reporting online. No change in policy at all that I can bring to mind.

As for government policy, well they pour vast sums of money into the Tourist Authority of Thailand, which seems at best to be very ineffectual. They (the government) don't do anything to promote retirement in Thailand. (Compare with our neighbour next door with "Malaysia my second home", which includes a 10 year visa, allows property ownership, tax-free import of a car, a national ID card, part time working, tax free interest on bank accounts, and all required documentation can be provided in English.)

So, whilst retirees may well boost the economy, governmental xenophobia means that they don't want to promote long staying foreigners. In their minds the tourists who come for a fortnight and quickly dump all their cash here is what is wanted.

I wonder how much the lack of an efficient system for retirees has to do with xenophobia, and how much it has to do with unbelievably talentless government, and an extraordinary lack of creative juice on the part of these administrators. Thailand has suffered from a lack of a meritocracy for decades. Not so in Malaysia, where they have genuine talent, a far, far better educational system, and elected officials with real intellect, aptitude, creativity, imagination, foresight, forethought, vision, and excellence. None of that exists here. The lack of talent is nothing short of astonishing.

So, it might answer some of your questions. I agree that we are not really valued here, and not given credit for our contributions to the culture, nor the economy. But, I am not sure how deliberate the ridiculously cumbersome visa process is, or if it is simply a result of sheer and utter ineptitude, and a staggering lack of vision. If it were intentional, that would show some foresight and planning. I kind of doubt that is the case.

Edited September 9, 2015 by spidermike007