SURVEY: Should EU countries continue to accept refugees and migrants?

[boomerangutang]

Yet another indication of dire overpopulation. There is a carrying capacity for humans - depending mostly on terrain. Humans over-rode the carrying capacity of Middle East 2,500 years ago, and it's been downhill ever since: for forests, watersheds, animals, erosion, soil, and for people. No matter how you look at it, when there's a species which so profusely settles a finite place, troubles will ensue. If rats invade an abandoned cake factory on an island, all will be fine for the rats, for awhile. Later, when there's a rat every sq. foot, problems arise. Similar happened at Rapanui (Easter Island). Deforestation, abandoned fishing, child abuse, animals wiped out, cannibalism, non-stop warfare, and the few remaining people living scared in mud holes..... Is the Earth not an island of sorts? I respect what Hungarian authorities are doing. There are no easy or quick solutions, but they're taking the comparative reasonable approach.

After the birth of my daughter, I had my tubes tied. I had already contributed to a few abortions, so I didn't want to make any more babies. It was also a political statement against overpopulation. If I hadn't gotten a vasectomy, I might have sired 6 to 10 more kids, most or all of which raised by single moms. If I was like most men, I'd continue seeking sex and not care about making many babies. I'd either take care of the babies I'd sired, as most married men to, or I'd turn my back on them - which many men do. What's the % of single moms in Thailand? In the Middle East? Worldwide? My guesses are: 60%, 40% and 60% respectively, and 60% also for the US. But single moms are not the prime concern. What's most important is the continuing irresponsibility of men ww. The one best thing a person can do to A. lessen trash in the world and B. lessen human migration issues - is to have less children.

Peoples' thinking is still too primitive and hormone/culture driven to comprehend the importance of having less children, and to equate overpopulation with all the major problems facing people ww.

[micmichd]

Yes, boomerangutang, vasectomy is a good idea to counter overpopulation, I'm sterilized, too. Too much money spent on abortions, and too many tears shed by women that lost their children.

Yes, overpopulation is an issue. Some Western European countries are in fact overpopulated, and the natives there behave like rats in panic sometimes.

The consequence not to let any refugees in the country reflects a rather static view. Some of the refugees might want to stay, but I guess the majority would prefer to return home if they have a perspective for living.

Those who stay as immigrants will most probably adopt their reproductive behaviour. From experiences in Germany we know that only the first generation of immigrants have those big families, following generations tend to keep the population stable (2 children per family)

On the other side, there are some Emigrants from Western Europe, expats and pensioners. The South (not only Thailand) has many things to offer them (not only sex)

Migration could be seen as a multi-dimensional exchange, not just a one-way street. Of course, it costs a lot, but it is an investment. Maybe it'll take a New Deal to do this, but I guess it's worth it. The alternative is a world war. I would prefer an international social transfer system. Guess we have computer programs and enough data for evaluations, someone should start.

[Ghostnigel]

Last time I checked the UK was stil an EU country... Although some ignorants would love to change that.

It always amazes me that many foreigners who settled in Thailand and complain the hardest about how difficult immigration here makes it for them, are the same ones who'd love to throw out all immigrants out of their home country, while at the same time whining about why it is so hard for their Thai wife or girlfriend to get a visa. Bigots, the lot of them.

You either want open borders for everyone, meaning you can live where you want, and so can anyone else, or you are in favor of closed borders, and everyone stays in their country of birth, no exception.

By the way, ALL significant economics agree that complete open border would increase wealth worldwide on a massive scale, with the poorest countries gaining around 300% in GDP and the richest countries will see an increase of 20% GDP.

Agree on the double standards...

Basically what percentage of British expatiates in Thailand are basically "economic migrants" avoiding tax, ducking and diving contributing to society.

Probably the same ones who say they want to end the EU freedom of movement because they may claim benefits, yet they are oblivious to the fact that for every German claiming benefits in the UK there are 6 Brits claiming benefits in Germany...

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

This is a reply from Ghostnigel

I don't recall reading about any expats crashing through police lines to enter the country, and destroying their ID cards, and refusing to sign on as a refugee, refusing food that is offered to them, and throwing it onto railway lines. as far as know every expat in Thailand goes through official channels, gets a visa, and uses what is internationally known as a PASSPORT....and opens a bank account, and drags money across from their own country. Not demand to go to a country that gives the most benefits.

Does anyone know of a refugee that brings a shed load of money with them?

So how are foreign expats in Thailand the SAME as eco migrants and refugees??

Please, inform me, I am all ears.......

Edited September 13, 2015 by Ghostnigel

[JHolmesJr]

Yeah that'll work.

The UK and much of Europe looked much like that during/after WW2

Did the inhabitants flee?

Some did. Most stayed and rebuilt.

People today are a lot weaker, meeker and overall dumber…their minds have been turned to mush by too much television, not enough independent thought and over dependence on consumerism and technology…hardly surprised

[micmichd]

Last time I checked the UK was stil an EU country... Although some ignorants would love to change that.

It always amazes me that many foreigners who settled in Thailand and complain the hardest about how difficult immigration here makes it for them, are the same ones who'd love to throw out all immigrants out of their home country, while at the same time whining about why it is so hard for their Thai wife or girlfriend to get a visa. Bigots, the lot of them.

You either want open borders for everyone, meaning you can live where you want, and so can anyone else, or you are in favor of closed borders, and everyone stays in their country of birth, no exception.

By the way, ALL significant economics agree that complete open border would increase wealth worldwide on a massive scale, with the poorest countries gaining around 300% in GDP and the richest countries will see an increase of 20% GDP.

Agree on the double standards...

Basically what percentage of British expatiates in Thailand are basically "economic migrants" avoiding tax, ducking and diving contributing to society.

Probably the same ones who say they want to end the EU freedom of movement because they may claim benefits, yet they are oblivious to the fact that for every German claiming benefits in the UK there are 6 Brits claiming benefits in Germany...

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

This is a reply from Ghostnigel

I don't recall reading about any expats crashing through police lines to enter the country, and destroying their ID cards, and refusing to sign on as a refugee, refusing food that is offered to them, and throwing it onto railway lines. as far as know every expat in Thailand goes through official channels, gets a visa, and uses what is internationally known as a PASSPORT....and opens a bank account, and drags money across from their own country. Not demand to go to a country that gives the most benefits.

Does anyone know of a refugee that brings a shed load of money with them?

So how are foreign expats in Thailand the SAME as eco migrants and refugees??

Please, inform me, I am all ears.......

European economies are bancrupt, Farangs keep just lying to themselves about their economic situation. Look at all these threads about working permits on TVF if you want to find out reality.

The only reason you don't see scenes like on European borders here is that there's not (yet) a war in Europe.

[simple1]

<snip>

The only reason you don't see scenes like on European borders here is that there's not (yet) a war in Europe.

Approx 1.4 million internal refugees from the fighting in Eastern Ukraine, so don't hold your breath

[micmichd]

Looks like a correlation: You have refugees where you have war. And you have migration where you have economic inequality.

Best to stop it both, even if it might be painful.

My parents were war refugees, and I remember the post-war period quite well. Including the introduction of DM in West Germany and the ERP / Marshall plan. Not everything personally but my mother wrote a diary about this time, a good base for further discussions.

East Ukraine is an issue for Russia and Ukraine (formerly USSR), reminds me a bit of Ulster (off topic here)

Edited September 14, 2015 by micmichd

[ableguy]

I am very much ashamed to see so many ignorant and narrow minded people on this website. Of course it's Europe's duty to take ALL refugees coming from Syria or other bombed countries with war and terror. It's called HUMANITY. If we all times point on our culture then it's up to us to support and help. Not by giving them money to stay away from Europe but help them to find a new home. Nobody of these poor people left their home because of economical problems but of fear. Fear for their lives. Everybody with children try to do best for them having a secure future. But those from e.g. Syria they don't have any future if they would stay there.

Another point is that all those countries (no 1 is UK) which deny to take a greater number of those poor refugees forget that our society is getting older fast and WE will have big problems in the nearer future with our pensions and social welfare. The number of retirees is growing but the number of working people is declining. It's unbelievable that Cameron can't see it! But anyway we have to take refugees as a big chance for development of our countries not as intruders or enimies. Meet them with respect and not with hate. Help them but don't kick them out.

By the way, those problems with IS and Syrian war are cuased by wrong American politics.

So where do all the economic migrants from Africa fit in ? No education, no skills, maybe they go live with you.

[sawadee1947]

I am very much ashamed to see so many ignorant and narrow minded people on this website. Of course it's Europe's duty to take ALL refugees coming from Syria or other bombed countries with war and terror. It's called HUMANITY. If we all times point on our culture then it's up to us to support and help. Not by giving them money to stay away from Europe but help them to find a new home. Nobody of these poor people left their home because of economical problems but of fear. Fear for their lives. Everybody with children try to do best for them having a secure future. But those from e.g. Syria they don't have any future if they would stay there.

Another point is that all those countries (no 1 is UK) which deny to take a greater number of those poor refugees forget that our society is getting older fast and WE will have big problems in the nearer future with our pensions and social welfare. The number of retirees is growing but the number of working people is declining. It's unbelievable that Cameron can't see it! But anyway we have to take refugees as a big chance for development of our countries not as intruders or enimies. Meet them with respect and not with hate. Help them but don't kick them out.

By the way, those problems with IS and Syrian war are cuased by wrong American politics.

So where do all the economic migrants from Africa fit in ? No education, no skills, maybe they go live with you.

another one with prejudices...! But I agree....it's terrible for you probably to see "BLACK" people with higher education than you?????? Do you know what? There coming DOCTORS, MECHANICS, NURSES, SCIENTISTS, ENGINEERS...aso....how disgusting....! poor Laddie...!

[sawadee1947]

Looks like a correlation: You have refugees where you have war. And you have migration where you have economic inequality.

Best to stop it both, even if it might be painful.

My parents were war refugees, and I remember the post-war period quite well. Including the introduction of DM in West Germany and the ERP / Marshall plan. Not everything personally but my mother wrote a diary about this time, a good base for further discussions.

East Ukraine is an issue for Russia and Ukraine (formerly USSR), reminds me a bit of Ulster (off topic here)

well, then you know that Germany took more than 18 Millions refugees within and after the war. But these refugees came from former german ground in the East. And is was working.

As a German you know about the problems of integration of these people. And because germans are experienced in this "business" they will make it, even there are some problems at present at the borders.

Stop all wars and you will have no refugees? Well, tht would be a bit idealistic, but worth to persuit.

Actually refugees with the highest education came from Ukraine

[cumgranosalum]

I notice some very stupid remark about refugees not having shedloads of money...... Well why would that be??????

In fact on occasions refugees do manage to smuggle out wealth...... One of the reasons the gold so often increase in price at times of unrest.

Another equally stupid suggestion that "black" people from Africa are ignorant........ Nothing could be further from the truth

What all this does is show how incredibly uninformed so many people are who comment on this topic... They rely entirely on pure prejudice to form what they erroneously think is an opinion.

[cumgranosalum]

This should help to put things in perspective

http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2015/aug/10/10-truths-about-europes-refugee-crisis

Edited September 19, 2015 by cumgranosalum

[newnative]

Take a look at the photos in the Guardian article that you mentioned. Except for the photo of the one boy, all the migrants in the photos are young, strong men. What that puts in perspective for me is this looks more like an invasion than a refugee crisis. These able-bodied men should be rebuilding their own countries, with UN assistance.

[JHolmesJr]

These able-bodied men should be rebuilding their own countries, with UN assistance.

This is the millennial generation….people on the cutting edge of social media, innovation and technology….their brains are so addled by Facebook updates and twitter shares….they aren't much good for anything else.

[micmichd]

These able-bodied men should be rebuilding their own countries, with UN assistance.

This is the millennial generation.people on the cutting edge of social media, innovation and technology.their brains are so addled by Facebook updates and twitter shares.they aren't much good for anything else.

How do you know?

I heard the same about Thailand, and it's not true.

[i claudius]

This should help to put things in perspective

http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2015/aug/10/10-truths-about-europes-refugee-crisis

Sorry do not read the guardian ,i only use it as toilet paper when the good stuff runs out .

[ABCer]

I'm afraid our opinions got an override.

Europeans shut borders, block bridges, to halt migrant surge