Urgent measures launched to stimulate Thai economy, PM says

[Jon Wetherall]

And how many of the loan sharks are 'connected'?

Maybe 80%

Where will they start and how far will they get before they get bumped? Easy questions.

Both of you have no idea what you are talking about. I live in a small farming village and know who lends and borrows. No one is "connected" and the local economy would not function without the loans. They are mostly provided by the owners of companies or shops that do business with the farmers and provide the vital cashflow needed to finance the farms. The rates charged are similar to those charged by credit card companies (3%/month but payable annually or whenever possible!) which is understandable considering the financial status of the borrowers who would be rejected by any credit card company even if they agreed to 10%/month! I bet neither of you would take such risks with your money but you criticise others for doing so. By the way there is no mafia here enforcing such loans.

Both of you have no idea what you are talking about.

Really...

I live in a small farming village and know who lends and borrows.

As do I.

No one is "connected"

BS. Did you ask what I meant by 'connected'? No. Yet you presume to understand it anyway. You don't, and I don't much care where you live.

and the local economy would not function without the loans.

Agreed, but now everyone knows your missus is a local loan shark.

They are mostly provided by the owners of companies or shops that do business with the farmers and provide the vital cashflow needed to finance the farms.

Jesus. Seriously? You don't understand the difference between prviding credit (as an informal loan) and a loan shark? Truly? Jesus.

The rates charged are similar to those charged by credit card companies (3%/month but payable annually or whenever possible!)

BS. The usual loan-shark rate is 10% per month, with big boys commonly charging 20%

I bet neither of you would take such risks with your money but you criticise others for doing so. By the way there is no mafia here enforcing such loans.

I don't agree, in fact I think the whole post is either a joke (in poor taste) or just complete crapola. You need to get out more.

So what do you mean by "connected"? If by that you mean have powerful friends I stand by what I say. No lender here needs them they just need to have money.

No one here needs to borrow at 10% or above. There is plenty around at 3%

So you know there is mafia in my village but I don't is that what you are saying? Or did you mean that you would risk

lending to farmers at 3%??

By the way leave my wife out of it. Getting personal is a sign of desperation in any discussion. We don't need the money.

So what do you mean by "connected"? If by that you mean have powerful friends I stand by what I say. No lender here needs them they just need to have money.

Well, I'll leave you to go read what I did say.

No one here needs to borrow at 10% or above. There is plenty around at 3%

OK

So you know there is mafia in my village but I don't is that what you are saying?

Straw man. Go read what I did say.

Or did you mean that you would risk lending to farmers at 3%??

Straw man.

By the way leave my wife out of it. Getting personal is a sign of desperation in any discussion. We don't need the money.

OK. Good luck. Have a nice day. I need a new BS meter, this one just got overloaded. You'll lkearn in good time. Or not.

[lostoday]

I explained it to the kids in the village last night. I cut out little farmers out of paper and a bank and a general and gave them all some one baht coins (GDP) and let the kids push them around on the table. They had fun doing this for an hour. I then asked them to add up the coins and see if they were the same. They said yes but the bankers had more and the farmers had less. I asked them if the total (GDP) had changed. They counted and said no.

The children learned you don't add to GDP by pushing money around. One has to add to the money by creating wealth not just pushing wealth from poor people to rich people because sooner or later the poor people run out of money (cake) and get angry and invent the guillotine.

I asked the children; what to do? They said get more Farang to retire in Thailand and bring money/dollars from the USA to spend. I said that was a good idea. One little boy said maybe someone with some money from outside of Thailand wants to buy something Thais have too much of and want to sell? He made some more comments but his sister slapped him and I never found out what he had to say.

[somo]

So what do you mean by "connected"? If by that you mean have powerful friends I stand by what I say. No lender here needs them they just need to have money.

Well, I'll leave you to go read what I did say.

No one here needs to borrow at 10% or above. There is plenty around at 3%

OK

So you know there is mafia in my village but I don't is that what you are saying?

Straw man. Go read what I did say.

Or did you mean that you would risk lending to farmers at 3%??

Straw man.

By the way leave my wife out of it. Getting personal is a sign of desperation in any discussion. We don't need the money.

OK. Good luck. Have a nice day. I need a new BS meter, this one just got overloaded. You'll lkearn in good time. Or not.

OK, if I am a straw man then here is your chance to state your actual position.

Would you risk your own money if you could legitamately lend to Thai farmers at 3%/month?

If not why do you criticise those that do?

What do you mean by "connected"? You continue to dodge answering - why?

[coulson]

And how many of the loan sharks are 'connected'?

Maybe 80%

Where will they start and how far will they get before they get bumped? Easy questions.

Both of you have no idea what you are talking about. I live in a small farming village and know who lends and borrows. No one is "connected" and the local economy would not function without the loans. They are mostly provided by the owners of companies or shops that do business with the farmers and provide the vital cashflow needed to finance the farms. The rates charged are similar to those charged by credit card companies (3%/month but payable annually or whenever possible!) which is understandable considering the financial status of the borrowers who would be rejected by any credit card company even if they agreed to 10%/month! I bet neither of you would take such risks with your money but you criticise others for doing so. By the way there is no mafia here enforcing such loans.

3%/ month is still shocking! and what bank charges 10%/month ?

So the rates charged by credit card companies are also shocking at about the same and they will only lend to those with the required ratings never to a Thai farmer. The 10% is just an example rate that even they would not lend to the farmers at being too risky.

You're picking numbers out of the sky.

The maximum legal limit for interest in a financial institution is 1.25%/ month, they may apply stealth charges/ fee's to those who qualify, unfortunately those who do don't have the wherewithal to realize they are making horrible decisions.

As for farmers in need with no credit background, taking a single satong from unofficial lenders is as bad as digging your own grave. At least PM can take some of the business away from these crooks in the short term, if there's anything positive from this it's that people could learn to find better ways to borrow. That is if the implementation and supervision of how the money is used is managed at village level.

A friend went to take a loan 2 weeks ago, to consolidate existing financial repayments that were crooked and unreasonable, 3 weeks later the bank is still doing the background check. Appears the message is getting across in some way.

[ericnoodeeka]

If you want to help the poor then set the police to work on rounding up the loan sharks and increase the penalty for illegal loans from 1 year to 5 years in prison. Make an example of a few and the practice will die out releasing these poor people from their circle of debt and the money they are paying these scum lenders to be spent on caring for their children and feeding themselves. It is a priority - why does every successive government avoid the issue if it is not that many of these illegal lenders have friends in high places. The solutions to many of Thailands problems really are so simple yet corruption keeps on feeding through every feeble excuse not to enact policies that will work. Like the rice scheme this is doomed to failure through inherent corruption and in any case does not even stand up to scrutiny that it will inject anything into the economy other than an initial burst. Can people really be THIS dumb?

And how many of the loan sharks are 'connected'?

Maybe 80%

Where will they start and how far will they get before they get bumped? Easy questions.

Both of you have no idea what you are talking about. I live in a small farming village and know who lends and borrows. No one is "connected" and the local economy would not function without the loans. They are mostly provided by the owners of companies or shops that do business with the farmers and provide the vital cashflow needed to finance the farms. The rates charged are similar to those charged by credit card companies (3%/month but payable annually or whenever possible!) which is understandable considering the financial status of the borrowers who would be rejected by any credit card company even if they agreed to 10%/month! I bet neither of you would take such risks with your money but you criticise others for doing so. By the way there is no mafia here enforcing such loans.

i acctually do agree to some point, in our village the loans are repaid and its all well run, by my wifes father i must say, and he is an honest man, yes they do exist here, i also put money into that sheme and get a healthy 11% return every year, never have i not been paid all my money back plus interesst. by the way dont think you can get rich on this, the maximum im allowed to put in is 200,000 baht per year

[ericnoodeeka]

If you want to help the poor then set the police to work on rounding up the loan sharks and increase the penalty for illegal loans from 1 year to 5 years in prison. Make an example of a few and the practice will die out releasing these poor people from their circle of debt and the money they are paying these scum lenders to be spent on caring for their children and feeding themselves. It is a priority - why does every successive government avoid the issue if it is not that many of these illegal lenders have friends in high places. The solutions to many of Thailands problems really are so simple yet corruption keeps on feeding through every feeble excuse not to enact policies that will work. Like the rice scheme this is doomed to failure through inherent corruption and in any case does not even stand up to scrutiny that it will inject anything into the economy other than an initial burst. Can people really be THIS dumb?

And how many of the loan sharks are 'connected'?

Maybe 80%

Where will they start and how far will they get before they get bumped? Easy questions.

Both of you have no idea what you are talking about. I live in a small farming village and know who lends and borrows. No one is "connected" and the local economy would not function without the loans. They are mostly provided by the owners of companies or shops that do business with the farmers and provide the vital cashflow needed to finance the farms. The rates charged are similar to those charged by credit card companies (3%/month but payable annually or whenever possible!) which is understandable considering the financial status of the borrowers who would be rejected by any credit card company even if they agreed to 10%/month! I bet neither of you would take such risks with your money but you criticise others for doing so. By the way there is no mafia here enforcing such loans.

i acctually do agree to some point, in our village the loans are repaid and its all well run, by my wifes father i must say, and he is an honest man, yes they do exist here, i also put money into that sheme and get a healthy 11% return every year, never have i not been paid all my money back plus interesst. by the way dont think you can get rich on this, the maximum im allowed to put in is 200,000 baht per year

ohh and by the way, we have loan companies, and they advertise on national tv, in the uk now and in big bold number tell u the rate is 1790% per anum, and im not joking.some have just been fined for racketeering, so there u go, its all good in the civilised world

[somo]

ohh and by the way, we have loan companies, and they advertise on national tv, in the uk now and in big bold number tell u the rate is 1790% per anum, and im not joking.some have just been fined for racketeering, so there u go, its all good in the civilised world

i acctually do agree to some point, in our village the loans are repaid and its all well run, by my wifes father i must say, and he is an honest man, yes they do exist here, i also put money into that sheme and get a healthy 11% return every year, never have i not been paid all my money back plus interesst. by the way dont think you can get rich on this, the maximum im allowed to put in is 200,000 baht per year

makes village loans here look really cheap.

So called loan sharks are nothing more than ruthless businessmen supplying a demand. It's called capitalism but some people get there nickers in a twist calling it immoral which it can be but so are the profits of many companies with household names. It is sadly the way of the world and those taking a holier than thou view of it are delusional.

[Jon Wetherall]

ohh and by the way, we have loan companies, and they advertise on national tv, in the uk now and in big bold number tell u the rate is 1790% per anum, and im not joking.some have just been fined for racketeering, so there u go, its all good in the civilised world

i acctually do agree to some point, in our village the loans are repaid and its all well run, by my wifes father i must say, and he is an honest man, yes they do exist here, i also put money into that sheme and get a healthy 11% return every year, never have i not been paid all my money back plus interesst. by the way dont think you can get rich on this, the maximum im allowed to put in is 200,000 baht per year

makes village loans here look really cheap.

So called loan sharks are nothing more than ruthless businessmen supplying a demand. It's called capitalism but some people get there nickers in a twist calling it immoral which it can be but so are the profits of many companies with household names. It is sadly the way of the world and those taking a holier than thou view of it are delusional.

Not to raise old hackles my friend, but it all became clear when you said you invested with your dad-in-law and get 11% per year.

Erm... how to say?

The going rate is 10% per month but I know of professionals who charge up to 20% which is waaay OTT. Anyway. 10% per month is 120% per year simple interest. And you get 11% pa. And you can't invest more than 200,000. Sounds like a good deal.

I believe you when you say he's an honest man, but really... check your fingers my friend because 5 gets you 10 you're being had. I just told my wife - she just laughed and shook her head.

Seems I was right after all, even if you didn't like it and got all PMS on my *ss. Don't believe me - ask others here and see if they know what the local going rate is.

Sorry and all that but... if you're happy then good luck. I'm glad you don't need the money, probably a good thing.

Edited September 9, 2015 by Jon Wetherall

[somo]

Jon Wetherall

You really are a bit stupid gloating like that.

It was another poster not me who talked of 11%/year.

His name is ericnoodeeka see his post above.

He also confirms much of what I have been saying.

By the way you have still refused to answer my questions but I guess you have been too busy gloating and you do have a lot to learn.

You do amuse me though

Edited September 9, 2015 by somo

[Wilsonandson]

Sounds like 'microcredit' scheme. Development funds, low interest agricultural loans, direct injections of cash into village development funds. A Thaksin economic policy from 2001.

[coulson]

If you want to help the poor then set the police to work on rounding up the loan sharks and increase the penalty for illegal loans from 1 year to 5 years in prison. Make an example of a few and the practice will die out releasing these poor people from their circle of debt and the money they are paying these scum lenders to be spent on caring for their children and feeding themselves. It is a priority - why does every successive government avoid the issue if it is not that many of these illegal lenders have friends in high places. The solutions to many of Thailands problems really are so simple yet corruption keeps on feeding through every feeble excuse not to enact policies that will work. Like the rice scheme this is doomed to failure through inherent corruption and in any case does not even stand up to scrutiny that it will inject anything into the economy other than an initial burst. Can people really be THIS dumb?

And how many of the loan sharks are 'connected'?

Maybe 80%

Where will they start and how far will they get before they get bumped? Easy questions.

Both of you have no idea what you are talking about. I live in a small farming village and know who lends and borrows. No one is "connected" and the local economy would not function without the loans. They are mostly provided by the owners of companies or shops that do business with the farmers and provide the vital cashflow needed to finance the farms. The rates charged are similar to those charged by credit card companies (3%/month but payable annually or whenever possible!) which is understandable considering the financial status of the borrowers who would be rejected by any credit card company even if they agreed to 10%/month! I bet neither of you would take such risks with your money but you criticise others for doing so. By the way there is no mafia here enforcing such loans.

i acctually do agree to some point, in our village the loans are repaid and its all well run, by my wifes father i must say, and he is an honest man, yes they do exist here, i also put money into that sheme and get a healthy 11% return every year, never have i not been paid all my money back plus interesst. by the way dont think you can get rich on this, the maximum im allowed to put in is 200,000 baht per year

Nothing healthy about that statement.

[MaiChai]

I think its a mistake making it a loan; it just makes people more indebted and it's never going to be repaid. A much better idea would be to look how to financially support farmers. Farmers need to spend a lot and then when they sell their crops it just about covers the costs and there isn't much profit left. Cheaper products for farmers and a sustainable subsidy for the produce so they make more money. Supporting farmers children better for education. Lots of ideas.

[somo]

I think its a mistake making it a loan; it just makes people more indebted and it's never going to be repaid. A much better idea would be to look how to financially support farmers. Farmers need to spend a lot and then when they sell their crops it just about covers the costs and there isn't much profit left. Cheaper products for farmers and a sustainable subsidy for the produce so they make more money. Supporting farmers children better for education. Lots of ideas.

You are right but the problem as always in Thailand is the implementation. Just giving them cash increases sales of beer and whisky very effectively and that does have some knock on effects on the economy but doesn't help the farming sector. The support of the price of rice was a good idea but the administration of it was a farce. Subsidising the price of fertilizer and weed killer would help but even if that was adopted successful implementation would be something else. It should be straight forward but no doubt a really complicated system of checks and credits for who would be eligible would be introduced and abused leading to delays and accusations and on to another coup or something.

Edited September 10, 2015 by somo