Former NRC member names prejudiced law enforcement as source of problems for Thais

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Former NRC member names prejudiced law enforcement as source of problems for Thais

BANGKOK, 9 September 2015 (NNT) – A former member of the National Reform Council has identified the prejudiced enforcement of laws as a source of problems for most Thais.

Former NRC member Rosana Tositrakul said that Thai people tended to be unfairly affected by the justice system as many laws passed by Parliament have not been drafted by independent parliamentarians but under the influence of certain groups of people.

As a result, a number of laws in use have brought problems to the public instead of helping them, Ms. Rosana stated.

She also commented that, with the government monopolizing certain businesses, free competition in Thailand has ended up being anything but fair for the people while such a situation could be considered large-scale corruption.

Ms. Rosana went on to say that, as the growing influence of capitalists has also been impacting the identity of local communities, laws should be introduced to help eliminate social inequality and help Thais prepare for the regional integration of the ASEAN Economic Community.


-- NNT 2015-09-09

[Seastallion]

Well, it's couched in relatively tame language (careful of defaming the judiciary? A case one could never win, ironically), but it's a start.

A better start would be to condemn the defamation law. Get that written right, and condemnation of many aspects of Thailand's core problems could be made with a view to improving matters.

[Reigntax]

So the penny is starting to drop and they are realising what the rest of the world has known for decades. It will be denied by those who use it in their favour of course and nothing will change.

While officials greatest punishment is moved to an inactive post they are wasting their time. Corruption is either illegal and should be prosecuted otherwise its open slather and every man for themselves.

I suggest the same will be taked about in the next few decades as it has in the past but too many people in control obtained their wealth and maintain it from the same corruption they attribute to their opposition.

[jerojero]

Would help if the good General would micro manage the judiciary as close as other nonessential issues.

[Khun Paul]

The Good general had the opportunity to reform the police but has failed miserably, now he needs to reform the Judiciary, well he now has a further 20 odd months to do both. Then and only then will Thais believe reform is important and working .

[worgeordie]

Prejudiced law enforcement,yes I think so one set of laws for the rich

and powerful,and another for the rest of the population.

regards Worgeordie

[WhizBang]

Without complete reform of the police and judiciary, NOTHING will change in Thailand. So, one has to ask, why is police and judicial reform not the #1 item on the agenda? Too difficult perhaps? Too many vested interests? The people pulling the general's strings just do not want any real reforms?

One needs to add to that, complete reform of the Military too.

The storm clouds are gathering, Thailand. How long do you really think you can put this off before the storm arrives? And when it arrives it will be a category 9 hurricane. It will destroy everything in it's path.

[newnative]

Today's example: No jail time for Tiger Disco inferno.

[Eric Loh]

I dare say that the last decade of political conflicts are due to prejudice law enforcement.

[Jon Wetherall]

So the penny is starting to drop and they are realising what the rest of the world has known for decades. It will be denied by those who use it in their favour of course and nothing will change.

While officials greatest punishment is moved to an inactive post they are wasting their time. Corruption is either illegal and should be prosecuted otherwise its open slather and every man for themselves.

I suggest the same will be taked about in the next few decades as it has in the past but too many people in control obtained their wealth and maintain it from the same corruption they attribute to their opposition.

They can't prosecute corruption, literally everybody in Thailand is at it from the bottom to the top, Not enough inactive posts.

Edited September 9, 2015 by Jon Wetherall

[Jon Wetherall]

Without complete reform of the police and judiciary, NOTHING will change in Thailand. So, one has to ask, why is police and judicial reform not the #1 item on the agenda? Too difficult perhaps? Too many vested interests? The people pulling the general's strings just do not want any real reforms?

One needs to add to that, complete reform of the Military too.

The storm clouds are gathering, Thailand. How long do you really think you can put this off before the storm arrives? And when it arrives it will be a category 9 hurricane. It will destroy everything in it's path.

Roll on the day. Some cleansing fire would be useful.

[Acharn]

Would help if the good General would micro manage the judiciary as close as other nonessential issues.

Don't remember where I read it, probably Wyatt's history of Thailand, but the Kings of Thailand used to have to clean out the corrupt courts with every reign change. It's hard to change a culture. In an economy where high office depends on personal and family connections, many activities and transactions that are accepted as the normal way of doing things look different to outsiders, who judge by their own narrow experiences.

[bangkokfrog]

Would help if the good General would micro manage the judiciary as close as other nonessential issues.

Don't remember where I read it, probably Wyatt's history of Thailand, but the Kings of Thailand used to have to clean out the corrupt courts with every reign change. It's hard to change a culture. In an economy where high office depends on personal and family connections, many activities and transactions that are accepted as the normal way of doing things look different to outsiders, who judge by their own narrow experiences.

I would be interested in the source. My understanding is that in those days senior government officials were not paid but worked for "love of king" and the ability to squeeze personal benefits out of their positions. I imagine that any change of officials under new kings was not a "clean out" but rather a re-arranging of the pigs at the trough. However, your conclusion is still valid... it is hard to change a culture, especially since some grandfathers of current incumbents could well have grown up under such a system.

[avocadowangnamkeouw]

The discussion still does not get any deeper than diagnosing the patient ( Thailand ) has difficulties to breath without seeing his head is in a plastic bag.

Prejudiced enforcement of laws, or as I would call it 'arbitrary law enforcement', happens in every society where the law itself

allows it. It has very little to do with culture.

In Thailand the order to enforce the law only can come from the government itself.

Not like most western countries, where it also can come from an independent ( Administrative ) Court.

The Thai Administrative Court only has the authority to advice, it is no Court, but a counsel.

The rest you can imagine yourself by just looking around and see what a mess this (still) beautiful country is.

The Law does not correct Government offices and officials who don't enforce laws and allows it when there some

personal gain in prospect.

Not even mentioning how profitable not enforcing law in protected areas can be for the official in charge...

[LannaGuy]

reform the judiciary and keep them out of politics then reform the Army and keep THEM out of politics too

[Jon Wetherall]

Would help if the good General would micro manage the judiciary as close as other nonessential issues.

Don't remember where I read it, probably Wyatt's history of Thailand, but the Kings of Thailand used to have to clean out the corrupt courts with every reign change. It's hard to change a culture. In an economy where high office depends on personal and family connections, many activities and transactions that are accepted as the normal way of doing things look different to outsiders, who judge by their own narrow experiences.

It's not mentioned very often but I understand that until the illustrious reign of King Rama 5, appointed officials were not given a salary or stipend, but were expected to make their own remuneration from the office.

This is another unfortunate trickle-down from the unhappy Chinese culture, and is, I believe, the direct progenitor of corruption in Thailand. Apparently, nobody told the officials that getting a salary would henceforth stop them from extorting from their positions.

So they never stopped, and it continues until today. Many people who take money from a government to do a job, then more money from someone to not do it, genuinely think they are not doing anything really wrong, and that clamp-downs are cosmetic - neither genuine nor to be taken seriously.

[Jon Wetherall]

Would help if the good General would micro manage the judiciary as close as other nonessential issues.

Don't remember where I read it, probably Wyatt's history of Thailand, but the Kings of Thailand used to have to clean out the corrupt courts with every reign change. It's hard to change a culture. In an economy where high office depends on personal and family connections, many activities and transactions that are accepted as the normal way of doing things look different to outsiders, who judge by their own narrow experiences.

I would be interested in the source. My understanding is that in those days senior government officials were not paid but worked for "love of king" and the ability to squeeze personal benefits out of their positions. I imagine that any change of officials under new kings was not a "clean out" but rather a re-arranging of the pigs at the trough. However, your conclusion is still valid... it is hard to change a culture, especially since some grandfathers of current incumbents could well have grown up under such a system.

Ah. Apologies, I had not seen this post prior to responding in a similar vein to another post. Sorry.

[Emster23]

"She also commented that, with the government monopolizing certain businesses, free competition in Thailand has ended up being anything but fair'

Okay, she finds fault with government monopolies. So far so good. Sounds like she is for a free market system. But then this:

"the growing influence of capitalists has also been impacting the identity of local communities, laws should be introduced to help eliminate social inequality and help Thais prepare for the regional integration"

That is assuming "capitalists" are private investors in free market.... I have little idea what she means with "impacting the identity of local communities".

Good luck with introducing laws to eliminate social inequality, which often comes with income inequality which may be the result of free market. Perhaps she would like the Khmer Rouge economic model?

[dominique355]

Not only a prejudiced law enforcement, I would even say a total lack of law enforcement and follow-through.

And there is the core problem of Thailand. If the law enforcement agencies had done their job properly, there would not have been no need (or pretext?) for a military coup neither in 2006 nor in 2014.

There would have been peace and order in Bangkok's street with civilised political activities. No occupation of the airport or the government house or of street intersections. A proper law enforcement would have prevented this and all the following violence and crimes.

And yet this military government is doing nothing to solve this problem. But then again, why should they? It allowed them to grab power.

[billd766]

The Good general had the opportunity to reform the police but has failed miserably, now he needs to reform the Judiciary, well he now has a further 20 odd months to do both. Then and only then will Thais believe reform is important and working .

So did every other government over the last 20 years and Thaksin's parties had at least 10 years to do it in.

[billd766]

reform the judiciary and keep them out of politics then reform the Army and keep THEM out of politics too

Then reform ALL the crooked, bent and criminal politicians and keep THEM out of politics too.

[ourmanflint]

The heirarchy in Thailand is wrong. At the very top of society should sit the law, it should be far above the petty feuds of its citizens, it should be above politicians, capitalists, and even generals. Thais do not accept this yet and never have, the law is seen as a tool for those that are in power to wield as they want. The law has no teeth because of this simple fact, a fact that every other "civilized" country in the world understands.

[ALLSEEINGEYE]

kind of sums up democracy in many developed countries too.

When the law makers are representing the interests of money instead of the interests of their constituents without accountability, the public will always suffer and the rich will always prosper.

I said it before and I'll say it again, bring on the revolution.

Hang the rich!!!

[billd766]

Not only a prejudiced law enforcement, I would even say a total lack of law enforcement and follow-through.

And there is the core problem of Thailand. If the law enforcement agencies had done their job properly, there would not have been no need (or pretext?) for a military coup neither in 2006 nor in 2014.

There would have been peace and order in Bangkok's street with civilised political activities. No occupation of the airport or the government house or of street intersections. A proper law enforcement would have prevented this and all the following violence and crimes.

And yet this military government is doing nothing to solve this problem. But then again, why should they? It allowed them to grab power.

And why has no other government in the last 20 or 30 tears FORCED the police to do their job properly?

Because it would be too difficult for them?

Because with poor law enforcement it was better for them?

Because with poor enforcement they can get away with breaking the laws?

Because...................

There are so many reasons NOT to reform the RTP and yet still only one reason to reform them.

If you wish to assign the blame why not apportion the blame equally?

[h90]

The Good general had the opportunity to reform the police but has failed miserably, now he needs to reform the Judiciary, well he now has a further 20 odd months to do both. Then and only then will Thais believe reform is important and working .

Reforming the police didn't fail miserable. There is some good progress, but it is too slow. If he would act fast everyone would complain that he act like Stalin and Hitler. If he acts slow and within legal framework people complain that he doesn't get things done.

What he does he get blamed....and to be honest he isn't the smartest....but way better than the next Shinawatra or Abhisit.

He doesn't need to reform Judiciary, he need to make clear laws and cancel all outdated laws.....Can't be that everyone sues everyone for nothing and lawyer bring up some laws that weren't used for the last 50 years.....

[h90]

Not only a prejudiced law enforcement, I would even say a total lack of law enforcement and follow-through.

And there is the core problem of Thailand. If the law enforcement agencies had done their job properly, there would not have been no need (or pretext?) for a military coup neither in 2006 nor in 2014.

There would have been peace and order in Bangkok's street with civilised political activities. No occupation of the airport or the government house or of street intersections. A proper law enforcement would have prevented this and all the following violence and crimes.

And yet this military government is doing nothing to solve this problem. But then again, why should they? It allowed them to grab power.

And why has no other government in the last 20 or 30 tears FORCED the police to do their job properly?

Because it would be too difficult for them?

Because with poor law enforcement it was better for them?

Because with poor enforcement they can get away with breaking the laws?

Because...................

There are so many reasons NOT to reform the RTP and yet still only one reason to reform them.

If you wish to assign the blame why not apportion the blame equally?

add:

Because they always placed their friends in top position to be covered

Because they took payments for promotion

Because the police is very influential and can easily kill you

[Acharn]

Would help if the good General would micro manage the judiciary as close as other nonessential issues.

Don't remember where I read it, probably Wyatt's history of Thailand, but the Kings of Thailand used to have to clean out the corrupt courts with every reign change. It's hard to change a culture. In an economy where high office depends on personal and family connections, many activities and transactions that are accepted as the normal way of doing things look different to outsiders, who judge by their own narrow experiences.

I would be interested in the source. My understanding is that in those days senior government officials were not paid but worked for "love of king" and the ability to squeeze personal benefits out of their positions. I imagine that any change of officials under new kings was not a "clean out" but rather a re-arranging of the pigs at the trough. However, your conclusion is still valid... it is hard to change a culture, especially since some grandfathers of current incumbents could well have grown up under such a system.

Sorry, I'm not sure of the source. If it wasn't Wyatt it was probably one of Dr. Pasuk Pongphaichit's books, probably Corruption and Democracy in Thailand, published in 1996 by Silkworm Books. If you live in Bangkok you might try going to his office and see if he has any copies left (if he's still alive). As I recall it was something like Sukhumvit Soi 150, hard to find.I wish I still had my old copy, because it is a wonderful history of Thai politics especially from the middle of the 19th Century, and had lots of local color. The only one of her books I still have is Thailand: Economy and Politics, 2nd ed., which only goes up to 2001 and does not have as many fascinating local anecdotes. Still well worth reading, but Thailand is not the frontier wild west country it was forty years ago. I miss it. Dr. Pasuk's home page is http://pioneer.netserv.chula.ac.th/~ppasuk/ and some of the most recent English language papers there are still interesting. She hasn't written much since the 2006 coup. Maybe she retired from Chula.

Edited September 9, 2015 by Acharn

[Jon Wetherall]

The Good general had the opportunity to reform the police but has failed miserably, now he needs to reform the Judiciary, well he now has a further 20 odd months to do both. Then and only then will Thais believe reform is important and working .

Reforming the police didn't fail miserable. There is some good progress, but it is too slow. If he would act fast everyone would complain that he act like Stalin and Hitler. If he acts slow and within legal framework people complain that he doesn't get things done.

What he does he get blamed....and to be honest he isn't the smartest....but way better than the next Shinawatra or Abhisit.

He doesn't need to reform Judiciary, he need to make clear laws and cancel all outdated laws.....Can't be that everyone sues everyone for nothing and lawyer bring up some laws that weren't used for the last 50 years.....

"Reforming the police didn't fail miserable"

M u s t ... t h i n k... p o s i t i v e

M u s t ... t h i n k... p o s i t i v e

M u s t ... t h i n k... p o s i t i v e

[rubl]

Without complete reform of the police and judiciary, NOTHING will change in Thailand. So, one has to ask, why is police and judicial reform not the #1 item on the agenda? Too difficult perhaps? Too many vested interests? The people pulling the general's strings just do not want any real reforms?

One needs to add to that, complete reform of the Military too.

The storm clouds are gathering, Thailand. How long do you really think you can put this off before the storm arrives? And when it arrives it will be a category 9 hurricane. It will destroy everything in it's path.

Roll on the day. Some cleansing fire would be useful.

Not for the living who like to live a while longer without needing to fear someone wants to burn down things again.

[Thai at Heart]

"She also commented that, with the government monopolizing certain businesses, free competition in Thailand has ended up being anything but fair'

Okay, she finds fault with government monopolies. So far so good. Sounds like she is for a free market system. But then this:

"the growing influence of capitalists has also been impacting the identity of local communities, laws should be introduced to help eliminate social inequality and help Thais prepare for the regional integration"

That is assuming "capitalists" are private investors in free market.... I have little idea what she means with "impacting the identity of local communities".

Good luck with introducing laws to eliminate social inequality, which often comes with income inequality which may be the result of free market. Perhaps she would like the Khmer Rouge economic model?

Their problem is that they have built minor private sector oligopoly who keep retaining protected status against competition.

They hide behind their apparent protection of thailand where what they actually do is gouge the Thai consumers and provide inefficient product and service.

The market is in dire need of competition in so many sectors but they dare not reform it, because these companies have become king makers in their own right. They buy favour from parties and will not allow anything to change.

Banks, retailers, industrial complexes hidden from competition eventually become sclerotic. This is the last brake on economic progress in Thailand. Allowing free entry for foreign companies into all markets in Thailand.

Thaksin was about to do this to banks, when Sondhi and the Democrat MP from the Bangkok bank family marched on government house.

He didn't get very far with his plan did he.......

Thais still haven't worked out that the consumer doesn't exist to feather the pockets of the few. The consumer is the Thai nation and he deserves protection from monopolist exploitation.

Edited September 9, 2015 by Thai at Heart