Thai vs International Education - Pros and Cons for each

[ArranP]

Thai education system vs International education system Pros and Cons for each

for example.

International Education - pro - attending European universities

International Education - pro - working and living in Europe

International Education - con - not good for working and living in Thailand as they don't learn to read and write in Thai

Thai Education - pro - working and living in Thailand as they learn to read and write in Thai

Thai Education - con - Certificate of Secondary Education not enough to enter European universities, Thai students can enter European Universities but require a 1 year foundation course to TopUp their Certificate of Secondary Education before studying their chosen degree course.

Thai Education - pro - save the international tuition fees and give the cash to the children when they are older, can be a big lump sum, 8,000,000 million baht per each child ( better in your child's pocket instead of their teachers )

Regards

Arran

Edited September 9, 2015 by ArranP

[tingtong]

some thoughts

I don't think there is any pro on the Thai education ( if you mean Thai government school) apart from the cost side.

I am sure International schools ( in Thailand) also teach kids to read/write Thai as well

The saved lump sum to give to kid when older sounds great...as long as it isn't a theory only. Most adults seem to find an easy excuse to use savings ( as such lump sum would be) to upgrade car to newer model, take a vacation, use for whatever other purpose or emergency.

Strong education may ( though not guarantee) a better job, that may pay back multi times the cost on the long run of a lifetime work.

Since many universities now offer dual degree programs where 1 year to study outside Thailand gets you the degree from 2 countries, that extra "topup" not sure if necessary.

If kid holds an EU passport, study in EU will sometimes cost less than someone who try to study there with a Thai passport.

[ArranP]

some thoughts

I don't think there is any pro on the Thai education ( if you mean Thai government school) apart from the cost side.

I am sure International schools ( in Thailand) also teach kids to read/write Thai as well

The saved lump sum to give to kid when older sounds great...as long as it isn't a theory only. Most adults seem to find an easy excuse to use savings ( as such lump sum would be) to upgrade car to newer model, take a vacation, use for whatever other purpose or emergency.

Strong education may ( though not guarantee) a better job, that may pay back multi times the cost on the long run of a lifetime work.

Since many universities now offer dual degree programs where 1 year to study outside Thailand gets you the degree from 2 countries, that extra "topup" not sure if necessary.

If kid holds an EU passport, study in EU will sometimes cost less than someone who try to study there with a Thai passport.

Thai Education - thai government school - the pro is students finish school at age 18 with the "Certificate of Secondary Education", this can be used to enter European Universities on a foundation course.

[Thailaw]

Some how you have come to believe that a child only learns what it is taught in its school, which is complete nonsense, unless it has insensitive, uncaring and unconcerned parents. International schools generally have limited teaching of Thai language, as it may not be a subject of importance to its students or their parents, who do not expect to live in Thailand permanently. But all international schools in Thailand offer classes in Thai after the regular school hours are over and there are many Thais that offer classes in Thai language after school and on weekends. Any parent that wants its child/children attending international school to learn Thai well has ample opportunities to ensure that it/they will. There is no "downside" or "con's" to an international school education except in a very narrow mind. And if you think that "money in the bank' is a good alternative to a quality education, regardless of the child's future studies or career, you are even more narrow and backward in your thinking. There are only "pros" for international education and only "cons" for sub-standard, inadequate Thai education, unless your children (and you) aspire for them to be hotel maids or motorcycle taxi drivers, and have no real opportunity for schooling outside Thailand regardless of their scholastic abilities. And even in Thailand, there is a greater emphasis on the speaking of English every day, albeit without any noticeable impact on the quality of education and the teaching of English in the Thai schools, which remain abominable. Thai private schools offer a minimally acceptable alternative, but it is still "minimally acceptable", nothing more.

I have 2 young children, both in international school, and both learn Thai in afternoon classes and on Saturday mornings. Their English is excellent -- they speak like native Americans, and (I am told) that their Thai is also very good. If they continue as they are, they will have no problem whatsoever studying and working inside or outside Thailand. And having that opportunity is very important to me and worth every Baht I pay for their education. Their value to an international company with offices in Thailand will be immeasurable, as they will offer a "bridge" between the two cultures and languages that international companies desperately need to succeed in places like Thailand. And they will also be able to perform at a high level in a purely English speaking environment if that is what they choose. Lots of good choices for them to consider, and giving children choices and opportunities is what education is all about. And if you see any "cons" to that, it is only because you are completely "con"fused. I suggest that you rethink your priorities and start again -- do not pass go and do not collect $200. Next..........

[ArranP]

Some how you have come to believe that a child only learns what it is taught in its school, which is complete nonsense, unless it has insensitive, uncaring and unconcerned parents. International schools generally have limited teaching of Thai language, as it may not be a subject of importance to its students or their parents, who do not expect to live in Thailand permanently. But all international schools in Thailand offer classes in Thai after the regular school hours are over and there are many Thais that offer classes in Thai language after school and on weekends. Any parent that wants its child/children attending international school to learn Thai well has ample opportunities to ensure that it/they will. There is no "downside" or "con's" to an international school education except in a very narrow mind. And if you think that "money in the bank' is a good alternative to a quality education, regardless of the child's future studies or career, you are even more narrow and backward in your thinking. There are only "pros" for international education and only "cons" for sub-standard, inadequate Thai education, unless your children (and you) aspire for them to be hotel maids or motorcycle taxi drivers, and have no real opportunity for schooling outside Thailand regardless of their scholastic abilities. And even in Thailand, there is a greater emphasis on the speaking of English every day, albeit without any noticeable impact on the quality of education and the teaching of English in the Thai schools, which remain abominable. Thai private schools offer a minimally acceptable alternative, but it is still "minimally acceptable", nothing more.

I have 2 young children, both in international school, and both learn Thai in afternoon classes and on Saturday mornings. Their English is excellent -- they speak like native Americans, and (I am told) that their Thai is also very good. If they continue as they are, they will have no problem whatsoever studying and working inside or outside Thailand. And having that opportunity is very important to me and worth every Baht I pay for their education. Their value to an international company with offices in Thailand will be immeasurable, as they will offer a "bridge" between the two cultures and languages that international companies desperately need to succeed in places like Thailand. And they will also be able to perform at a high level in a purely English speaking environment if that is what they choose. Lots of good choices for them to consider, and giving children choices and opportunities is what education is all about. And if you see any "cons" to that, it is only because you are completely "con"fused. I suggest that you rethink your priorities and start again -- do not pass go and do not collect $200. Next..........

European Universities accept students from the Thai schools, It is not only students from International schools.

[Laughing Gravy]

Some how you have come to believe that a child only learns what it is taught in its school, which is complete nonsense, unless it has insensitive, uncaring and unconcerned parents. International schools generally have limited teaching of Thai language, as it may not be a subject of importance to its students or their parents, who do not expect to live in Thailand permanently. But all international schools in Thailand offer classes in Thai after the regular school hours are over and there are many Thais that offer classes in Thai language after school and on weekends. Any parent that wants its child/children attending international school to learn Thai well has ample opportunities to ensure that it/they will. There is no "downside" or "con's" to an international school education except in a very narrow mind. And if you think that "money in the bank' is a good alternative to a quality education, regardless of the child's future studies or career, you are even more narrow and backward in your thinking. There are only "pros" for international education and only "cons" for sub-standard, inadequate Thai education, unless your children (and you) aspire for them to be hotel maids or motorcycle taxi drivers, and have no real opportunity for schooling outside Thailand regardless of their scholastic abilities. And even in Thailand, there is a greater emphasis on the speaking of English every day, albeit without any noticeable impact on the quality of education and the teaching of English in the Thai schools, which remain abominable. Thai private schools offer a minimally acceptable alternative, but it is still "minimally acceptable", nothing more.

I have 2 young children, both in international school, and both learn Thai in afternoon classes and on Saturday mornings. Their English is excellent -- they speak like native Americans, and (I am told) that their Thai is also very good. If they continue as they are, they will have no problem whatsoever studying and working inside or outside Thailand. And having that opportunity is very important to me and worth every Baht I pay for their education. Their value to an international company with offices in Thailand will be immeasurable, as they will offer a "bridge" between the two cultures and languages that international companies desperately need to succeed in places like Thailand. And they will also be able to perform at a high level in a purely English speaking environment if that is what they choose. Lots of good choices for them to consider, and giving children choices and opportunities is what education is all about. And if you see any "cons" to that, it is only because you are completely "con"fused. I suggest that you rethink your priorities and start again -- do not pass go and do not collect $200. Next..........

European Universities accept students from the Thai schools, It is not only students from International schools.

They would not be allowed into UK universities having no A levels. International schools by law have to have Thai lessons for Thai nationals and also Non Thai pupils.

The benefit for Thai universities are very few. One would be to go to study medicine as a Thai national, As often they do not recognise the qualifications from International schools. you would have o go a pretty affluent school to get there.

[ArranP]

Some how you have come to believe that a child only learns what it is taught in its school, which is complete nonsense, unless it has insensitive, uncaring and unconcerned parents. International schools generally have limited teaching of Thai language, as it may not be a subject of importance to its students or their parents, who do not expect to live in Thailand permanently. But all international schools in Thailand offer classes in Thai after the regular school hours are over and there are many Thais that offer classes in Thai language after school and on weekends. Any parent that wants its child/children attending international school to learn Thai well has ample opportunities to ensure that it/they will. There is no "downside" or "con's" to an international school education except in a very narrow mind. And if you think that "money in the bank' is a good alternative to a quality education, regardless of the child's future studies or career, you are even more narrow and backward in your thinking. There are only "pros" for international education and only "cons" for sub-standard, inadequate Thai education, unless your children (and you) aspire for them to be hotel maids or motorcycle taxi drivers, and have no real opportunity for schooling outside Thailand regardless of their scholastic abilities. And even in Thailand, there is a greater emphasis on the speaking of English every day, albeit without any noticeable impact on the quality of education and the teaching of English in the Thai schools, which remain abominable. Thai private schools offer a minimally acceptable alternative, but it is still "minimally acceptable", nothing more.

I have 2 young children, both in international school, and both learn Thai in afternoon classes and on Saturday mornings. Their English is excellent -- they speak like native Americans, and (I am told) that their Thai is also very good. If they continue as they are, they will have no problem whatsoever studying and working inside or outside Thailand. And having that opportunity is very important to me and worth every Baht I pay for their education. Their value to an international company with offices in Thailand will be immeasurable, as they will offer a "bridge" between the two cultures and languages that international companies desperately need to succeed in places like Thailand. And they will also be able to perform at a high level in a purely English speaking environment if that is what they choose. Lots of good choices for them to consider, and giving children choices and opportunities is what education is all about. And if you see any "cons" to that, it is only because you are completely "con"fused. I suggest that you rethink your priorities and start again -- do not pass go and do not collect $200. Next..........

European Universities accept students from the Thai schools, It is not only students from International schools.

They would not be allowed into UK universities having no A levels. International schools by law have to have Thai lessons for Thai nationals and also Non Thai pupils.

The benefit for Thai universities are very few. One would be to go to study medicine as a Thai national, As often they do not recognise the qualifications from International schools. you would have o go a pretty affluent school to get there.

UK universities accept the Thai "Certificate of Secondary Education" from the Thai state schools, this is given at the age of 18. Then they have to complete a 1year foundation course at the UK University before going on to their chosen degree course.

Edited September 10, 2015 by ArranP

[Thailaw]

Some how you have come to believe that a child only learns what it is taught in its school, which is complete nonsense, unless it has insensitive, uncaring and unconcerned parents. International schools generally have limited teaching of Thai language, as it may not be a subject of importance to its students or their parents, who do not expect to live in Thailand permanently. But all international schools in Thailand offer classes in Thai after the regular school hours are over and there are many Thais that offer classes in Thai language after school and on weekends. Any parent that wants its child/children attending international school to learn Thai well has ample opportunities to ensure that it/they will. There is no "downside" or "con's" to an international school education except in a very narrow mind. And if you think that "money in the bank' is a good alternative to a quality education, regardless of the child's future studies or career, you are even more narrow and backward in your thinking. There are only "pros" for international education and only "cons" for sub-standard, inadequate Thai education, unless your children (and you) aspire for them to be hotel maids or motorcycle taxi drivers, and have no real opportunity for schooling outside Thailand regardless of their scholastic abilities. And even in Thailand, there is a greater emphasis on the speaking of English every day, albeit without any noticeable impact on the quality of education and the teaching of English in the Thai schools, which remain abominable. Thai private schools offer a minimally acceptable alternative, but it is still "minimally acceptable", nothing more.

.......................

European Universities accept students from the Thai schools, It is not only students from International schools.

So what???????????? Universities in every country will accept foreign students, from Thailand and elsewhere, IF they can demonstrate proficiency in the instructional language (English in the US and UK) and achieve acceptable scores in achievement tests (in the US, SATs). If they can demonstrate the ability to function in the university environment and classrooms they will be admitted -- it matters not (at least not in the US) whether they have gone to public or private school. But the probability of a Thai public school student being able to demonstrate the necessary minimum proficiencies is very low, on both counts -- scholastic and language. An international school education will improve that probability dramatically!. In fact, I would guess that the number of Thai students attending university in the US or UK directly from Thai public/government school is near zero. That is the point! They aren't able to perform at a UK or US university, they are not barred. And some schools for diversity reasons may give an advantage to foreign students, but they are unlikely to survive 1 or 2 semesters -- that is the "pro" for attending Thai public school, a very quick foreign university experience, and just think of all of the money that you saved by not providing a child with the skills to succeed -- well done! NOT!!!

[ArranP]

Some how you have come to believe that a child only learns what it is taught in its school, which is complete nonsense, unless it has insensitive, uncaring and unconcerned parents. International schools generally have limited teaching of Thai language, as it may not be a subject of importance to its students or their parents, who do not expect to live in Thailand permanently. But all international schools in Thailand offer classes in Thai after the regular school hours are over and there are many Thais that offer classes in Thai language after school and on weekends. Any parent that wants its child/children attending international school to learn Thai well has ample opportunities to ensure that it/they will. There is no "downside" or "con's" to an international school education except in a very narrow mind. And if you think that "money in the bank' is a good alternative to a quality education, regardless of the child's future studies or career, you are even more narrow and backward in your thinking. There are only "pros" for international education and only "cons" for sub-standard, inadequate Thai education, unless your children (and you) aspire for them to be hotel maids or motorcycle taxi drivers, and have no real opportunity for schooling outside Thailand regardless of their scholastic abilities. And even in Thailand, there is a greater emphasis on the speaking of English every day, albeit without any noticeable impact on the quality of education and the teaching of English in the Thai schools, which remain abominable. Thai private schools offer a minimally acceptable alternative, but it is still "minimally acceptable", nothing more.

.......................

European Universities accept students from the Thai schools, It is not only students from International schools.

So what???????????? Universities in every country will accept foreign students, from Thailand and elsewhere, IF they can demonstrate proficiency in the instructional language (English in the US and UK) and achieve acceptable scores in achievement tests (in the US, SATs). If they can demonstrate the ability to function in the university environment and classrooms they will be admitted -- it matters not (at least not in the US) whether they have gone to public or private school. But the probability of a Thai public school student being able to demonstrate the necessary minimum proficiencies is very low, on both counts -- scholastic and language. An international school education will improve that probability dramatically!. In fact, I would guess that the number of Thai students attending university in the US or UK directly from Thai public/government school is near zero. That is the point! They aren't able to perform at a UK or US university, they are not barred. And some schools for diversity reasons may give an advantage to foreign students, but they are unlikely to survive 1 or 2 semesters -- that is the "pro" for attending Thai public school, a very quick foreign university experience, and just think of all of the money that you saved by not providing a child with the skills to succeed -- well done! NOT!!!

There are many Thai schools with English Programmes with students whose parents speak English. The children learn English at school and at home. The required entry qualification is the "Certificate of Secondary Education" given by the Thai school at the age of 18.

Edited September 10, 2015 by ArranP

[tingtong]

ArranP,

Here is the problem as I see it, and it isn't the certificate or not having it to enter a university outside Thailand...

It is rather that in average government schools there is - how to put it diplomaticly - simple no education in most case.

My son is now in M1, studied most of the time, the experience was that in P1-6 they have hardly teach much. Not meaning English only.

He had classmates who started out P4 without being able to read Thai ( yep, that was his new school after we moved). This isn't an anecdote from the kid, I was there for parents day when the Thai parents admitted this for the teacher's question. Oh, not all, only 50% about. Was shocking. Only for me, all others ( Thai of course) found this funny, and dismissed as.

Last year I had spent a few times in a village school to speak to kids in English, sort of a volunteer thing, one local teacher asked me to do ( not my son's school). I found nice kids, but that was all the good things I can tell about the school, and the education I have seen there.

Maybe part due the 'all must pass' policy, I don't know.

But I think if one can afford the better education better do, Kid wont make it abroad, if grown up in the Thai government school; the paper, even if acceptable, wont put him to equal level of knowledge to perform as the other students. The sad reality.

[maidee]

if you spend 1 million baht per year for your kid in your fancy private international school, and at the age of 18, he/she go work in ... a fastfood joint, as he/has has not more brains than that, or a low level office job (not everybody is as smart as you, lol) , than who will regret what ?

there are good private bilingual schools for your half farang / thai kid!

[recycler]

If I would have the money to send my kids to an international school I would certainly do it.

The Thai education system is among the worst in the world, it's highly politicized and militarized and a lot of time is wasted on non important issues and indoctrination.

It doesn't help to send your kids to a bi-lingual or English program school, these are still under the compulsory curriculum of the ministry of education.

But international schools are hell expensive and at the moment I can't afford it...

[gohmer]

OR, you could do what I did and that was relocated back to the states with my 12 and 14 yr old step-kids and Thai wife. 7 years in Thailand was enough for me to know I couldn't have my Thai step kids educated in any Thai school. I put them in two of the best public schools in Southern California that's giving them the best education which will allow them the opportunity to attend a top 100 university in the US. Not only has their English accelerated at an unbelievable rate, the academic curriculum is vastly superior. They actually learn world history, chemistry, advanced algebra, biology, not just what all of the good things the you know who's, which we can't talk about, have done.

My kids absolutely love it here and have said repeatedly they never want to go back to Thailand except to visit. They have a zillion friends and have social and recreational opportunities abound. And, most importantly, my Isaan step kids will actually be able to get really great jobs without the extreme prejudices of Thailand for being dark-skinned, too old (over 30), etc.

Nope, no way, no how would I put my kids through Thai schools not even international ones because I don't want them to live a life under the social, political, or economic constraints of Thailand.

Don't forget it was one of those ridiculously expensive international schools that the kids dressed up for Sports Day and marched through town all dressed like Hitler, goose stepping, and carrying swastikas. The international schools have an economic stranglehold on foreigners or even Thais due to the incredible gap (mostly perceived) between public and international. Most parents to rave out their international school do so so they don't look stupid for paying such ridiculous tuition and, if the teachers are Thai, well , their goes the international in the international.

My advice, take your kids to Europe or America and get them educated their. If you don't have to absolutely live in Thailand, why are you even asking this question about Thai vs international.

Edited September 11, 2015 by gohmer

[Thailaw]

if you spend 1 million baht per year for your kid in your fancy private international school, and at the age of 18, he/she go work in ... a fastfood joint, as he/has has not more brains than that, or a low level office job (not everybody is as smart as you, lol) , than who will regret what ?

there are good private bilingual schools for your half farang / thai kid!

What a completely ridiculous post! Preparing a child for a good, interesting and well paying job is one reason to give the child a good education, which in Thailand means a private international school education, but it is not the only reason. Preparing them to think critically, to communicate broadly and to know, understand and appreciate literature, art and music are equally important, and will not be learned in a Thai public school and not in most Thai private schools. And if they end up working at MickieDee's or have a lower level office job after they finish at their international school, it will be because they chose to do that, not because they had no other choice (which, by the way, is extremely unlikely, as they are as smart (or smarter) than me and are both number 1 in their respective classes). And please, save your bigotry for your favorite barstool.

[mike324]

Your con under International School is not really a con, they can learn to read easily with tutoring classes. If you are Thai citizen attending International School, they are required to take Thai classes after school - this is based on first hand knowledge with my Thai friends. If you can afford it, by all means send them to an International School. If not, its best to transfer them there around middle or high school. You do not want your kid graduating from a Thai school, they will be very far behind in regards to their knowledge, critical thinking, and development.

[mike324]

OR, you could do what I did and that was relocated back to the states with my 12 and 14 yr old step-kids and Thai wife. 7 years in Thailand was enough for me to know I couldn't have my Thai step kids educated in any Thai school. I put them in two of the best public schools in Southern California that's giving them the best education which will allow them the opportunity to attend a top 100 university in the US. Not only has their English accelerated at an unbelievable rate, the academic curriculum is vastly superior. They actually learn world history, chemistry, advanced algebra, biology, not just what all of the good things the you know who's, which we can't talk about, have done.

My kids absolutely love it here and have said repeatedly they never want to go back to Thailand except to visit. They have a zillion friends and have social and recreational opportunities abound. And, most importantly, my Isaan step kids will actually be able to get really great jobs without the extreme prejudices of Thailand for being dark-skinned, too old (over 30), etc.

Nope, no way, no how would I put my kids through Thai schools not even international ones because I don't want them to live a life under the social, political, or economic constraints of Thailand.

Don't forget it was one of those ridiculously expensive international schools that the kids dressed up for Sports Day and marched through town all dressed like Hitler, goose stepping, and carrying swastikas. The international schools have an economic stranglehold on foreigners or even Thais due to the incredible gap (mostly perceived) between public and international. Most parents to rave out their international school do so so they don't look stupid for paying such ridiculous tuition and, if the teachers are Thai, well , their goes the international in the international.

My advice, take your kids to Europe or America and get them educated their. If you don't have to absolutely live in Thailand, why are you even asking this question about Thai vs international.

Thats one way to look at it if you don't need to be based in Thailand. Due to how bad the public education is, you can't really bash parents who shell out money to send kids to international schools. That "international school" that had the hitler parade can't be consider as an international school, its more like a Thai school that slapped on an "international" title to it.

[quandow]

I have taught at both Thai schools and international schools. If you can afford it, stay with the international schools. There is really no comparison, international schools are head and shoulders above.

[thehelmsman]

Does a school like St. Joseph's fall under the category of Gov. School? I wouldn't think so. I can't afford an International school but will be sending my girl to an English Program School. Classes are taught 50/50 thai and english. I've visited the school and it seems to have a good mix of kids. The thinking seems to be that college in the west is the only solution to a good education and a happy life. I'm of the mindset that many successful Thai's were educated in Thailand and not in the west. Maybe I'm wrong but the way I see it is that a good Thai education along with good English skills can make for a good and comfortable life in Thailand.

[Jonathon]

In my experience it is definitely much easier for a kid in international school to become proficient in Thai than it is for one in a Thai school to learn English to a usable level, even though the international school Thai lessons might not be very good.

Of course cost comes into it, but the temple schools should be avoided whatever the cost of the alternative.

[Hogboy]

The Ministry of Education stipulates that international schools much teach Thai for a minimum number of hours to Thai nationals (equates to around three lessons per week). That means if they are fully Thai, they will learn Thai, if they are half Thai, they can, but are not obliged to.

In my experience, very few non Thai parents at international schools look for extra lessons, but those that do want them are often frustrated that there is not much on offer and look for private tuition.

Thehelmsman - while English Program schools are a step up from government schools, often the huge flaw is that English is not taught by first language speakers, and where it is, the teachers are often only TEFL qualified. Students' achievements in such schools rarely compare to those of students in international schools. Even those with commendable achievement will have quite poor English skills, even if they have one English speaking parent.

Re going to university - yes they can do foundation years, but the choice will be thin on the ground, and the universities will tend to be lower tier.

[Thailaw]

So what???????????? Universities in every country will accept foreign students, from Thailand and elsewhere, IF they can demonstrate proficiency in the instructional language (English in the US and UK) and achieve acceptable scores in achievement tests (in the US, SATs). If they can demonstrate the ability to function in the university environment and classrooms they will be admitted -- it matters not (at least not in the US) whether they have gone to public or private school. But the probability of a Thai public school student being able to demonstrate the necessary minimum proficiencies is very low, on both counts -- scholastic and language. An international school education will improve that probability dramatically!. In fact, I would guess that the number of Thai students attending university in the US or UK directly from Thai public/government school is near zero. That is the point! They aren't able to perform at a UK or US university, they are not barred. And some schools for diversity reasons may give an advantage to foreign students, but they are unlikely to survive 1 or 2 semesters -- that is the "pro" for attending Thai public school, a very quick foreign university experience, and just think of all of the money that you saved by not providing a child with the skills to succeed -- well done! NOT!!!

There are many Thai schools with English Programmes with students whose parents speak English. The children learn English at school and at home. The required entry qualification is the "Certificate of Secondary Education" given by the Thai school at the age of 18.

To my knowledge, there are no Thai government schools that offer "English Programs". Thai private schools do offer such programs, but most (at least in the Pattaya area) are not especially good. But if cost is an issue, they certainly offer a far better educational option than Thai government schools -- no disagreement there. The OP was directed to the "pros" and "cons" of Thai government schools vs. international schools, and "English Programs" do not come into that evaluation. And, even if the children attend an English Program at a Thai private school, their English skills will be basic and unlikely to be enhanced/improved at home, even if their parents speak English (unless they sit around the dinner table in the evening reading and writing English), and certainly to a level where they could function well at a foreign English based university, where all instruction and work must be in English. And it is not only skill in English, it is developing learning skills and knowledge, which are not present at Thai government schools and are inadequate at Thai private schools. And, it is also attending a school where students are motivated and encouraged by their teachers and parents to learn, all of which is much higher at an international school than a Thai government school or a Thai private school. Do you have any idea of the "value" of a Thai university degree? In almost all cases (except at the very best Thai universities), they are a "recognition of attendance" and worth nothing.

If you are trying to rationalize your very poor decisions as regards your children's education (as I infer from this thread and another thread that you have started), you are IMO doing a very poor job. Start by admitting the obvious, that, except for cost, there are NO "pros" for Thai government school education and no "cons" for international school education. If cost is the issue, then deal with that issue, rather than trying to convince (delude) yourself that it really isn't so bad to have them attend Thai government schools and that there are some positive aspects in doing so -- there are not, full stop!

Edited September 12, 2015 by Thailaw

[gerryBScot]

It's all very misleading. International school is a broad concept. In reality there is only a handful of international schools in Thailand that offer the best schooling in Thailand and which stand comparison with the best schools in the world. You'll pay a lot of money for this similar to the same amount in your home country. Most other international schools in Thailand are hybrid and some feature 99% Thai students - they serve parents who are status seekers, of a sort of 'golf club' mentality.

Then there are bilingual programmes, private concerns, often run by a Catholic diocese or a private business interest, a great idea in theory but they are patchy and bilingual is usually a misnomer. They suffer from all the nonsense that pervades the state sector and the lower tier (majority) international schools. It's actually debatable if students get anything that resembles an education in these schools. In truth students would often be better off in the better government schools.

There is no doubt that a strong parental interest in their children's education and well-being will be far more telling than any other consideration. You can buy sex, but you can't buy love. You can buy an education, but you can't buy intelligence blah blah blah

Edited September 12, 2015 by gerryBScot

[ArranP]

So what???????????? Universities in every country will accept foreign students, from Thailand and elsewhere, IF they can demonstrate proficiency in the instructional language (English in the US and UK) and achieve acceptable scores in achievement tests (in the US, SATs). If they can demonstrate the ability to function in the university environment and classrooms they will be admitted -- it matters not (at least not in the US) whether they have gone to public or private school. But the probability of a Thai public school student being able to demonstrate the necessary minimum proficiencies is very low, on both counts -- scholastic and language. An international school education will improve that probability dramatically!. In fact, I would guess that the number of Thai students attending university in the US or UK directly from Thai public/government school is near zero. That is the point! They aren't able to perform at a UK or US university, they are not barred. And some schools for diversity reasons may give an advantage to foreign students, but they are unlikely to survive 1 or 2 semesters -- that is the "pro" for attending Thai public school, a very quick foreign university experience, and just think of all of the money that you saved by not providing a child with the skills to succeed -- well done! NOT!!!

There are many Thai schools with English Programmes with students whose parents speak English. The children learn English at school and at home. The required entry qualification is the "Certificate of Secondary Education" given by the Thai school at the age of 18.

To my knowledge, there are no Thai government schools that offer "English Programs". Thai private schools do offer such programs, but most (at least in the Pattaya area) are not especially good. But if cost is an issue, they certainly offer a far better educational option than Thai government schools -- no disagreement there. The OP was directed to the "pros" and "cons" of Thai government schools vs. international schools, and "English Programs" do not come into that evaluation. And, even if the children attend an English Program at a Thai private school, their English skills will be basic and unlikely to be enhanced/improved at home, even if their parents speak English (unless they sit around the dinner table in the evening reading and writing English), and certainly to a level where they could function well at a foreign English based university, where all instruction and work must be in English. And it is not only skill in English, it is developing learning skills and knowledge, which are not present at Thai government schools and are inadequate at Thai private schools. And, it is also attending a school where students are motivated and encouraged by their teachers and parents to learn, all of which is much higher at an international school than a Thai government school or a Thai private school. Do you have any idea of the "value" of a Thai university degree? In almost all cases (except at the very best Thai universities), they are a "recognition of attendance" and worth nothing.

If you are trying to rationalize your very poor decisions as regards your children's education (as I infer from this thread and another thread that you have started), you are IMO doing a very poor job. Start by admitting the obvious, that, except for cost, there are NO "pros" for Thai government school education and no "cons" for international school education. If cost is the issue, then deal with that issue, rather than trying to convince (delude) yourself that it really isn't so bad to have them attend Thai government schools and that there are some positive aspects in doing so -- there are not, full stop!

Thank you.

Yes you are right in that I am trying to rationalize to reach an understanding that I am comfortable with.

Digesting your comments, leads me to see the "Certificate of Secondary Education" lower in value than I did a few days ago, whilst it may grant the student access to a European University, it may not be a "credible" measurement of the knowledge held by the student. This maybe because the student has received a limited education from the Thai school, when comparing to the education the student would receive from an international or local european school.

I can admit, that not sending my children to an international school would relieve a certain amount of stress and bring a financial saving, but I am afraid to not send my kids to an international school. I have returned to the UK but I am not liking it here much due to the climate, I am looking to return to Thailand for the children to start term 2 in january, they will be returning to their international school.

The cost of the international school is about 1,000,000 baht per year for the 2 children, however when accounting for overall cost of living, the cost difference between UK and Thailand comes down to just 400,000 baht per year more to live in Thailand with an international school.

When my third child starts school in about 3 years obviously it will go up, I had previously been panicked by this and initial thoughts were I could not afford it, however this is not the case.

It is an expense to send my children to an international school, an expense that I cannot comfortably afford at the moment for various reasons, but I can afford, and It seems I prefer to live in Thailand than the UK so I must bear the financial burden of the international schooling.

I would prefer my children to live and work for a international company in Thailand being a bridge between the West and Thailand cultures, than work and live in the West, the weather is better than the West and I prefer the people and its culture.

Regards

Arran.

Edited September 12, 2015 by ArranP

[ArranP]

It's all very misleading. International school is a broad concept. In reality there is only a handful of international schools in Thailand that offer the best schooling in Thailand and which stand comparison with the best schools in the world. You'll pay a lot of money for this similar to the same amount in your home country. Most other international schools in Thailand are hybrid and some feature 99% Thai students - they serve parents who are status seekers, of a sort of 'golf club' mentality.

Then there are bilingual programmes, private concerns, often run by a Catholic diocese or a private business interest, a great idea in theory but they are patchy and bilingual is usually a misnomer. They suffer from all the nonsense that pervades the state sector and the lower tier (majority) international schools. It's actually debatable if students get anything that resembles an education in these schools. In truth students would often be better off in the better government schools.

There is no doubt that a strong parental interest in their children's education and well-being will be far more telling than any other consideration. You can buy sex, but you can't buy love. You can buy an education, but you can't buy intelligence blah blah blah

I don't consider myself to be intellectual, but this is I think very much a relative term. I am from a working class family, poor background, I started programming computers at 11, passed my city and guilds in programming at 14, started work in IT at 16, stopped working in IT at 41 when I think I had reached the top in my field at least salary wise around £500 per day, mostly everything I knew I learnt on the job and self taught. I saved and bought properties and now manage my properties, I have about 140 tenants and have a net worth of near 1 million, but I don't consider myself rich because I never seem to have a spare penny/baht and any money I do have I expand my business buy another property. Hopefully I will have something to give my children when they are older.

I have little to no interest in teaching. I do like playing with my children, hugging them and loving them lots, I would prefer to have a happy child that poo's their pants than an unhappy child that does not poo their pants. For me the more I try to teach my children the more unhappy they seem to be, rather leave them alone to learn at their own pace and they seem to be more happy, jumping around, playing and laughing, they are only young once, let them enjoy their childhood.

as for my children education and ability, we as parents can give them the best we can afford, or guilt driven to give them, however what they will achieve in life is either in them in the first place or not regardless of the teaching they receive.

Edited September 12, 2015 by ArranP

[gerryBScot]

It's all very misleading. International school is a broad concept. In reality there is only a handful of international schools in Thailand that offer the best schooling in Thailand and which stand comparison with the best schools in the world. You'll pay a lot of money for this similar to the same amount in your home country. Most other international schools in Thailand are hybrid and some feature 99% Thai students - they serve parents who are status seekers, of a sort of 'golf club' mentality.

Then there are bilingual programmes, private concerns, often run by a Catholic diocese or a private business interest, a great idea in theory but they are patchy and bilingual is usually a misnomer. They suffer from all the nonsense that pervades the state sector and the lower tier (majority) international schools. It's actually debatable if students get anything that resembles an education in these schools. In truth students would often be better off in the better government schools.

There is no doubt that a strong parental interest in their children's education and well-being will be far more telling than any other consideration. You can buy sex, but you can't buy love. You can buy an education, but you can't buy intelligence blah blah blah

I don't consider myself to be intellectual, but this is I think very much a relative term. I am from a working class family, poor background, I started programming computers at 11, passed my city and guilds in programming at 14, started work in IT at 16, stopped working in IT at 41 when I think I had reached the top in my field at least salary wise around £500 per day, mostly everything I knew I learnt on the job and self taught. I saved and bought properties and now manage my properties, I have about 140 tenants and have a net worth of near 1 million, but I don't consider myself rich because I never seem to have a spare penny/baht and any money I do have I expand my business buy another property. Hopefully I will have something to give my children when they are older.

I have little to no interest in teaching. I do like playing with my children, hugging them and loving them lots, I would prefer to have a happy child that poo's their pants than an unhappy child that does not poo their pants. For me the more I try to teach my children the more unhappy they seem to be, rather leave them alone to learn at their own pace and they seem to be more happy, jumping around, playing and laughing, they are only young once, let them enjoy their childhood.

as for my children education and ability, we as parents can give them the best we can afford, or guilt driven to give them, however what they will achieve in life is either in them in the first place or not regardless of the teaching they receive.

I'm not suggesting you try to teach your children anything that is not within your range of abilities. For instance I think it would be difficult to teach a child to read without some prior training or experience. However when you leave books out for kids, read to them and ask questions about what you read to them then you are doing something amazing. In the grand scheme of academic development I'm not sure that a parent can do much more than to encourage their children to read. Learn to read then read to learn. A child that reads confidently can direct their own learning.

Edited September 12, 2015 by gerryBScot

[ArranP]

It's all very misleading. International school is a broad concept. In reality there is only a handful of international schools in Thailand that offer the best schooling in Thailand and which stand comparison with the best schools in the world. You'll pay a lot of money for this similar to the same amount in your home country. Most other international schools in Thailand are hybrid and some feature 99% Thai students - they serve parents who are status seekers, of a sort of 'golf club' mentality.

Then there are bilingual programmes, private concerns, often run by a Catholic diocese or a private business interest, a great idea in theory but they are patchy and bilingual is usually a misnomer. They suffer from all the nonsense that pervades the state sector and the lower tier (majority) international schools. It's actually debatable if students get anything that resembles an education in these schools. In truth students would often be better off in the better government schools.

There is no doubt that a strong parental interest in their children's education and well-being will be far more telling than any other consideration. You can buy sex, but you can't buy love. You can buy an education, but you can't buy intelligence blah blah blah

I don't consider myself to be intellectual, but this is I think very much a relative term. I am from a working class family, poor background, I started programming computers at 11, passed my city and guilds in programming at 14, started work in IT at 16, stopped working in IT at 41 when I think I had reached the top in my field at least salary wise around £500 per day, mostly everything I knew I learnt on the job and self taught. I saved and bought properties and now manage my properties, I have about 140 tenants and have a net worth of near 1 million, but I don't consider myself rich because I never seem to have a spare penny/baht and any money I do have I expand my business buy another property. Hopefully I will have something to give my children when they are older.

I have little to no interest in teaching. I do like playing with my children, hugging them and loving them lots, I would prefer to have a happy child that poo's their pants than an unhappy child that does not poo their pants. For me the more I try to teach my children the more unhappy they seem to be, rather leave them alone to learn at their own pace and they seem to be more happy, jumping around, playing and laughing, they are only young once, let them enjoy their childhood.

as for my children education and ability, we as parents can give them the best we can afford, or guilt driven to give them, however what they will achieve in life is either in them in the first place or not regardless of the teaching they receive.

I'm not suggesting you try to teach your children anything that is not within your range of abilities. For instance I think it would be difficult to teach a child to read without some prior training or experience. However when you leave books out for kids, read to them and ask questions about what you read to them then you are doing something amazing. In the grand scheme of academic development I'm not sure that a parent can do much more than to encourage their children to read. Learn to read then read to learn. A child that reads confidently can direct their own learning.

The international school encouraged reading alot, where as in comparison the top banded state school in the UK has not thus far but still early days as they just started 2 weeks ago.

I will note however, my younger child, just 4 years is more settled in the state school than the international school. I attribute this to the environment as they are totally different, the state school is very orderly in that the children are all sitting down in their individual chairs when parents come to pick them up, the teacher calls one at a time, if a child gets up who has not been called the child is made to sit back down. I walked passed the window during school time to take a peak, all the children were again sitting in their chairs all doing the same activity, it was very ordered and calm environment, there are 4 teachers to 32 children. In comparison the international school, the children were running and jumping, more freedom and more chaotic environment. I'm not commenting on which environment is better because I'm not a teach and I'm not qualified to comment, but I can say my child, his excitement needs to be kept in touch, if he is given the freedom for his excitement to escalate he will play too strong to the extent he has hurt other children. However so far I have been very impressed with the state school at how they keep the environment calm. However we will be returning to Thailand and the internatoinal school, he will be in the next year up which may make a difference as the class sizes are smaller than his nursery class last year and again from what I recollect with my first child when she attended all children were made to sit.

[gerryBScot]

I'd be surprised if a UK school started teaching kids to read at 4. The National Curriculum specifies learning based on games and play for 4-5 years old. This is the sort of nonsense that goes on in Thailand where they believe that there is some sort of advantage in teaching children to read and write Thai and also throw in some English from 2 years on. I think it is grotesque to see small children wearing school uniforms chained to desks doing formal learning activities as I see everyday of my working life. I think it sets these children back enormously in their education and development. I think it is one of the factors that needs to be considered when the overall system is appraised.

Your kids are lucky because you actually care about what happens to them. I suggest you keep enquiring because there are a few pearls in Thailand. I hear great reports about our local state secondary school in provincial Thailand. If your wife is Thai get her to get onto this because there are good schools outside of the international sector but that info tends to be passed on by word of mouth. It's like restaurants - you need recommendations.

Edited September 12, 2015 by gerryBScot

[ArranP]

I'd be surprised if a UK school started teaching kids to read at 4. The National Curriculum specifies learning based on games and play for 4-5 years old. This is the sort of nonsense that goes on in Thailand where they believe that there is some sort of advantage in teaching children to read and write Thai and also throw in some English from 2 years on. I think it is grotesque to see small children wearing school uniforms chained to desks doing formal learning activities as I see everyday of my working life. I think it sets these children back enormously in their education and development. I think it is one of the factors that needs to be considered when the overall system is appraised.

Your kids are lucky because you actually care about what happens to them. I suggest you keep enquiring because there are a few pearls in Thailand. I hear great reports about our local state secondary school in provincial Thailand. If your wife is Thai get her to get onto this because there are good schools outside of the international sector but that info tends to be passed on by word of mouth. It's like restaurants - you need recommendations.

sorry forgot to mention my 2nd child is just turning 7, it is her who is reading.

They were in Thailand attending international school until the end of the last academic year, we then returned to the UK over the summer holidays, but now I want to return to Thailand, I prefer it in Thailand mostly due to the laid back attitude of the Thai culture and warm climate, miss sitting at Amazon in my flip-flops drinking a cha-num-yen.

I lived in Phuket alone with my children and worried I alone was not enough for them and they needed to be local to my extended family UK, that and a few other concerns at the time led me to return to the UK, however since returning here I have realized I just want to be back in Thailand.

Therefore I need to accept that If I am to live where I want to live, in Thailand, I need to accept that I will be enough for my children. Their school will be the International school, then UK university (if they choose to) then go onto employment at a large international company in BKK, at least that is what I would like for them, myself I would prefer that than for them to live and work in the UK due to the cold climate and stress of the culture. But its their choice, but I need to be comfortable with what I am doing for them.

Their mother lives in Nakhon Sawan and sees them on their school holidays.

[gerryBScot]

Sounds like you have a well thought through plan and I agree with you about living in Thailand - especially if you have found a place where you feel comfortable at home. My wife and I are both teachers and we love where we live in Thailand but neither of us are Thai and so there is nothing in the Thai system for us and especially for our two kids. We will inevitably leave when the right job comes up and that has to be one with an international curriculum to facilitate their entry into higher education.

I would suggest that one way by which you can help your kids is getting your hands on some quality kids books and leaving them around for both of them to discover. Then make a point of reading to them and encouraging them to read to you. Get them interested in reading - I am 100% sure that reading is the key factor in any language development and thereafter it is the foundation of most learning.

A further thought, if you have the means, might be to engage a private tutor. You might be able to find a highly qualified and experienced filipino teacher in Phuket and there could even be possibilities about engaging such a person as a full time home tutor. I realise that there are some here who are against using filipinos and there is no doubt that there are good and bad filipino teachers, just like there are good and bad teachers. However there are some excellent filipino teachers out there and if you could find one of them then it might work out well for your situation. Let me declare an interest - my wife is a filipino, she's educated to Masters level, has almost 20 years of classroom experience and to all intents and purposes is a native speaker. She's the real deal and most of her buddies are of a similar calibre. Just some food for thought.

Good luck and best wishes.

Edited September 13, 2015 by gerryBScot