Koh Tao murders: 2 DNA profiles from alleged murder weapon do not match defendants' DNA

[sweatalot]

I think one big mistake made by the RTP was to use the wrong people to stitch up. If they had picked a couple of Burmese men who looked thuggish and hard nosed then maybe they could have made a better job of it. To pick a couple of boys who look like everyone's favourite nephew was a big error.

Wrong. The one big mistake made was by the pig who published the pictures of Hannah's broken body. And how anyone who looked at those pictures could then spend the next 10 months trying to deflect from the person who carried out that crime. Those people are as much animals as he who handled the hoe. <deleted> disgraceful.

while you are right, you're missing the point

the main mistake of the police was not to do what police are supposed to do:

impartially looking for the murderer/s by applying proper and skillfull police work

[RWA]

So the defense strategy is to nitpick the procedures of forensic analysis that led to the DNA match, the problem with that is that it's not possible to go "oopsie, false positive!" with a DNA analysis, no mistake is going to produce a DNA match for not just one, but two persons.

The only thing that would give a false match is deliberately faking the results, since A ) they don't seem to have any evidence of that and B ) they refused to do a retest of those results it all amounts to insinuations; let's see how the judge weights those insinuations against the actual results from the analysis

Is it possible that corrupt people may have been involved and put the wrong names on the dna from Hannah's Body ?

These posters are saying incredibly stupid things to bait the people on the forum who all just want the killers caught. I fell into Balo's bait yesterday and now realize there's no genuine interest in finding the killers from them, Only misdirection and baiting. Try and skip their posts.

The B2 face death if convicted, 20-30 years if they confess.... Why they would risk their lives if they knew their DNA would be found and undeniable? They wouldn't.. They would confess under no intimidation. In fact in sure their attorneys adviser them in this exact point initially. aleg keeps banging on about the DNA "Match" and here we are midway into the DEFENSE and still they haven't substantiated the DNA... My guess, they're hoping the judges will just accept their report of the "match" and that'll be the end of it. They may have to switch gears after the next session. Also, interesting time for police spokesman to be giving reports to the media! Jokers.

[AleG]

Stealth could you pm me some other sites to read about this case? My searchs come up in vain...one off blog posts without near the in depth analysis or forum conversations like we have here. Thank you.

The quote comes from an Andrew Drummond article, not particularly reliable source in my opinion.

Having said that if there is clear evidence that the DNA analysis was tampered with then that's significant, but simply saying that some data is incorrect, or other was edited without giving a context or explaining relevance is not much to hang a hat on.

For example, from what I know, the date of death in David Miller's autopsy report was incorrect, obviously that would be a clerical error since there is no reasonable explanation of why the person writing the report would fake that. Of course that could easily be spun as "We have found significant errors in the autopsy report" in order to discredit the results of the autopsy; while the statement would be true it does not follow that the results of the autopsy are in error.

As the saying goes, a little knowledge is a dangerous thing.

[StealthEnergiser]

Stealth could you pm me some other sites to read about this case? My searchs come up in vain...one off blog posts without near the in depth analysis or forum conversations like we have here. Thank you.

This has good info also

http://www.edp24.co.uk/news/crime/dna_found_on_murder_weapon_does_not_match_with_two_men_on_trial_for_killing_hannah_witheridge_1_4228734

[thailandchilli]

Stealth could you pm me some other sites to read about this case? My searchs come up in vain...one off blog posts without near the in depth analysis or forum conversations like we have here. Thank you.

The quote comes from an Andrew Drummond article, not particularly reliable source in my opinion.

Having said that if there is clear evidence that the DNA analysis was tampered with then that's significant, but simply saying that some data is incorrect, or other was edited without giving a context or explaining relevance is not much to hang a hat on.

For example, from what I know, the date of death in David Miller's autopsy report was incorrect, obviously that would be a clerical error since there is no reasonable explanation of why the person writing the report would fake that. Of course that could easily be spun as "We have found significant errors in the autopsy report" in order to discredit the results of the autopsy; while the statement would be true it does not follow that the results of the autopsy are in error.

As the saying goes, a little knowledge is a dangerous thing.

In my opinion A.D. exposes cheats and liars in Thailand and his articles reflect that eloquently. His knowledge exceeds yours in this case, I may remind you he was at the crime scene on the 15th & 16th of Sept 2014.

May I also remind you its not the job of the defense to provide clear evidence for you or the judges but to provide reasonable doubt. The world has seen that,perhaps you have not, lets see if the judges are also blind.

[happy Joe]

So the defense strategy is to nitpick the procedures of forensic analysis that led to the DNA match, the problem with that is that it's not possible to go "oopsie, false positive!" with a DNA analysis, no mistake is going to produce a DNA match for not just one, but two persons.

The only thing that would give a false match is deliberately faking the results, since A ) they don't seem to have any evidence of that and B ) they refused to do a retest of those results it all amounts to insinuations; let's see how the judge weights those insinuations against the actual results from the analysis

Exactly that I think. If the defence takes us every day a particular object on which no dna 2B, we are not out of the woods. The only tangible deduction is that the police did not disguised these parts to conviction contrary to what one says loudly here.

We can easily bet that they will now do the same with clothing non-presented by the prosecution. Then they will challenge the process of DNA levies that match and it will be judges to decide.

We can also accept that they use so weak arguments because they don't have more convincing and therefore that the two accused are guilty. Let us now see if this trial reserve us a surprise ...

[Aj Mick]

Stealth could you pm me some other sites to read about this case? My searchs come up in vain...one off blog posts without near the in depth analysis or forum conversations like we have here. Thank you.

The quote comes from an Andrew Drummond article, not particularly reliable source in my opinion.

Having said that if there is clear evidence that the DNA analysis was tampered with then that's significant, but simply saying that some data is incorrect, or other was edited without giving a context or explaining relevance is not much to hang a hat on.

For example, from what I know, the date of death in David Miller's autopsy report was incorrect, obviously that would be a clerical error since there is no reasonable explanation of why the person writing the report would fake that. Of course that could easily be spun as "We have found significant errors in the autopsy report" in order to discredit the results of the autopsy; while the statement would be true it does not follow that the results of the autopsy are in error.

As the saying goes, a little knowledge is a dangerous thing.

It would seem that you, AleG, have a lot of knowledge, which would seem to be an even more dangerous thing.

Would it be possible for you to answer few simple questions (that have been previously put to you) to establish your bona fide and sincerity.

Here are two questions that KunMatt posted a couple of days ago, on 11 Sept:

1. Do you now accept that the B2 were tortured into confessing?

2. Do you still believe the RTP's case against the B2 is solid and that the B2 are guilty?

To which I added a couple yesterday, 12 Sept:

1. Why your interest in this case?

2. What is your connection to Koh Tao, and those involved in the case?

If you are not prepared give a straight answers, we have to assume your interest in the case is to obfuscate the truth, and stir up enough trouble to get this thread closed…….

Thus apparently earning kudos from those whose faces you seek to save. AleG, in truth, they care no more about you than the Burmese staff they employ, and are prepared to make scapegoats of if it suits their purposes.

[StealthEnergiser]

Stealth could you pm me some other sites to read about this case? My searchs come up in vain...one off blog posts without near the in depth analysis or forum conversations like we have here. Thank you.

The quote comes from an Andrew Drummond article, not particularly reliable source in my opinion.

Having said that if there is clear evidence that the DNA analysis was tampered with then that's significant, but simply saying that some data is incorrect, or other was edited without giving a context or explaining relevance is not much to hang a hat on.

For example, from what I know, the date of death in David Miller's autopsy report was incorrect, obviously that would be a clerical error since there is no reasonable explanation of why the person writing the report would fake that. Of course that could easily be spun as "We have found significant errors in the autopsy report" in order to discredit the results of the autopsy; while the statement would be true it does not follow that the results of the autopsy are in error.

As the saying goes, a little knowledge is a dangerous thing.

In my opinion A.D. exposes cheats and liars in Thailand and his articles reflect that eloquently. His knowledge exceeds yours in this case, I may remind you he was at the crime scene on the 15th & 16th of Sept 2014.

May I also remind you its not the job of the defense to provide clear evidence for you or the judges but to provide reasonable doubt. The world has seen that,perhaps you have not, lets see if the judges are also blind.

Not only that Andy hall would not recommend it if there was no truth to it.

Follow

Andy Hall‏@Atomicalandy

KOH TAO MURDERS - DID SCOTLAND YARD AND THE FOREIGN OFFICE SCREW UP? - Andrew Drummond's summary of developments

[boomerangutang]

So the defense strategy is to nitpick the procedures of forensic analysis that led to the DNA match, the problem with that is that it's not possible to go "oopsie, false positive!" with a DNA analysis, no mistake is going to produce a DNA match for not just one, but two persons.

The only thing that would give a false match is deliberately faking the results, since A ) they don't seem to have any evidence of that and B ) they refused to do a retest of those results it all amounts to insinuations; let's see how the judge weights those insinuations against the actual results from the analysis

Is it possible that corrupt people may have been involved and put the wrong names on the dna from Hannah's Body ?

The RTP may not even have gone through the motions. Months ago, I thought they falsified DNA data to get their desired results. Now, I think they merely had a top brass go to a microphone in front of a crowd of press corps and just say what fits with the picture authorities are painting. In other words, they want they B2 to match, so they announce, "The Burmese DNA matches." They want NS's DNA not to match, they announce, "Nomsod's DNA does not match, ...and by the way, we're not keeping NS's DNA typing and we're not sending DNA typing to the Brits, because they already know we're doing a perfect job of this investigation."

The fat lady hasn't yet sung. As far as I can tell, neither Ms Pontip nor anyone else has commented directly on the DNA typings taken from Hannah. The hoe data via Pontip was interesting, but even she is kept from trying to find who those two mystery men are. RTP + prosecutors + Headman's people are going into overdrive trying to keep what's left of the broken lid on this cover-up. Possibly also the court, because they're part of authoritative establishment. They all answer to the PM and he's already shown his colors on this case.

Too bad we have to wait so long between court dates, and then another month for the verdict, unless it's postponed. Add in the gag orders and the tight restrictions on what/who can and cannot be tested for DNA, and it's like the entire weight of Thai authorities is stacked against the two impoverished immigrants - but we knew that already.

[Bulldozer Dawn]

So the defense strategy is to nitpick the procedures of forensic analysis that led to the DNA match, the problem with that is that it's not possible to go "oopsie, false positive!" with a DNA analysis, no mistake is going to produce a DNA match for not just one, but two persons.

The only thing that would give a false match is deliberately faking the results, since A ) they don't seem to have any evidence of that and B ) they refused to do a retest of those results it all amounts to insinuations; let's see how the judge weights those insinuations against the actual results from the analysis

Is it possible that corrupt people may have been involved and put the wrong names on the dna from Hannah's Body ?

The RTP may not even have gone through the motions. Months ago, I thought they falsified DNA data to get their desired results. Now, I think they merely had a top brass go to a microphone in front of a crowd of press corps and just say what fits with the picture authorities are painting. In other words, they want they B2 to match, so they announce, "The Burmese DNA matches." They want NS's DNA not to match, they announce, "Nomsod's DNA does not match, ...and by the way, we're not keeping NS's DNA typing and we're not sending DNA typing to the Brits, because they already know we're doing a perfect job of this investigation."

The fat lady hasn't yet sung. As far as I can tell, neither Ms Pontip nor anyone else has commented directly on the DNA typings taken from Hannah. The hoe data via Pontip was interesting, but even she is kept from trying to find who those two mystery men are. RTP + prosecutors + Headman's people are going into overdrive trying to keep what's left of the broken lid on this cover-up. Possibly also the court, because they're part of authoritative establishment. They all answer to the PM and he's already shown his colors on this case.

Too bad we have to wait so long between court dates, and then another month for the verdict, unless it's postponed. Add in the gag orders and the tight restrictions on what/who can and cannot be tested for DNA, and it's like the entire weight of Thai authorities is stacked against the two impoverished immigrants - but we knew that already.

As I posted earlier. It will sting when B2 are found guiltly.

Face will prevail here, not justice.

[Darkknight666]

So the defense strategy is to nitpick the procedures of forensic analysis that led to the DNA match, the problem with that is that it's not possible to go "oopsie, false positive!" with a DNA analysis, no mistake is going to produce a DNA match for not just one, but two persons.

The only thing that would give a false match is deliberately faking the results, since A ) they don't seem to have any evidence of that and B ) they refused to do a retest of those results it all amounts to insinuations; let's see how the judge weights those insinuations against the actual results from the analysis

Is it possible that corrupt people may have been involved and put the wrong names on the dna from Hannah's Body ?

The RTP may not even have gone through the motions. Months ago, I thought they falsified DNA data to get their desired results. Now, I think they merely had a top brass go to a microphone in front of a crowd of press corps and just say what fits with the picture authorities are painting. In other words, they want they B2 to match, so they announce, "The Burmese DNA matches." They want NS's DNA not to match, they announce, "Nomsod's DNA does not match, ...and by the way, we're not keeping NS's DNA typing and we're not sending DNA typing to the Brits, because they already know we're doing a perfect job of this investigation."

The fat lady hasn't yet sung. As far as I can tell, neither Ms Pontip nor anyone else has commented directly on the DNA typings taken from Hannah. The hoe data via Pontip was interesting, but even she is kept from trying to find who those two mystery men are. RTP + prosecutors + Headman's people are going into overdrive trying to keep what's left of the broken lid on this cover-up. Possibly also the court, because they're part of authoritative establishment. They all answer to the PM and he's already shown his colors on this case.

Too bad we have to wait so long between court dates, and then another month for the verdict, unless it's postponed. Add in the gag orders and the tight restrictions on what/who can and cannot be tested for DNA, and it's like the entire weight of Thai authorities is stacked against the two impoverished immigrants - but we knew that already.

As I posted earlier. It will sting when B2 are found guiltly.

Face will prevail here, not justice.

That's in the back of all of our minds.. It's worst case scenario so try not to focus on that part. If I can get down there on the 21'st I will.. I'll be wearing a shirt that says "Hi, my name is Darkknight666".

If they ate found guilty after this trial nobody will really be that surprised, But we will learn along with the rest of the world what Thailand is all about.. New leaders, same Thailand? We're set to find out soon.

[StealthEnergiser]

Andy Hall facebook

Eventually after several defense team requests more substantial documentation has been provided to the court regarding the alleged DNA match between the accused and samples from the female deceased body. That documentation, that seeming remains still limited and incomplete, now is the key issue under examination. Reported Dr Pornthip already started to highlight concerns regarding this evidence in her testimony and surely more to come..

[Darkknight666]

Thanks Stealth, for putting all of Andy's updates on here. It makes it much easier to catch up in one place so I appreciate your effort.

For the poster who asked about Hannah's clothes- we haven't heard anything about that so to answer your questions, No where Hannah's clothes are hasn't been answered.

[phuketandsee]

BP has a piece this morning on how the family of Erawan bombing suspect Wanna Suansant has urged her not to return to Thailand because they are afraid she will be made a scapegoat by the police who they say are very good at that. The Thais know even if the shills don't.

[loonodingle]

However, if the Norfolk coroner finds that neither DNA sample A nor B belongs to either individuals, that would be a "difference" in findings. So I'm tempted to believe that there were semen samples found in which the DNA does not match either of the two accused

Impossible! The Norfolk coroner has no way to compare DNA samples gathered from the body with the DNA of the accused individuals.

Are you joking or is that a hope or yours? Defense can send DNA typing of defendants to whomever they want (but admittedly, they can't readily send DNA typing from Mon or Nomsod or their tough-guy friends). RTP can try as much as possible to misdirect proceedings, but they aren't all-powerful. Just as Mon tried as hard as possible to snuff out any indication of his nephew taking part in the crime, he missed erasing/burying the Running Man videos. I bet he rues that miscalculation in an otherwise blanket multi-faceted cover-up attempt.

ehhh Boomerangutang, of course it's NOT my JOKE nor a HOPE! Don't be silly.

1.) The Norfolk coroner would not ask Thai Defense Team to send them DNA typing of the defendants (especially before the official inquest)

2.) Thai Defense Team didn't have - officially, the defendants DNA (relaible) available until just recently

3.) See the Loonodingle post of Today, 05:31. THAT is pretty much what is it about!

For the rest of your post, I must but wholeheartedly AGREE with you!

I'm ouf of Likes for today, so thank you instead.

The coroner has carried out a meticulous forensic examination of the 2 deceased victims. They have found serious differences between the RTP pathologist's report and what is actually there for them to see. They will also have swabbed for DNA.

So different is there findings they have had to send the reports to the defence and the court. Included in this was the cause of death was not consistent with the RTP's findings I believe... on the info I have.

Just wait and see what comes out. It will I am sure

[Neeranam]

Andy Hall facebook

Eventually after several defense team requests more substantial documentation has been provided to the court regarding the alleged DNA match between the accused and samples from the female deceased body. That documentation, that seeming remains still limited and incomplete, now is the key issue under examination. Reported Dr Pornthip already started to highlight concerns regarding this evidence in her testimony and surely more to come..

Are you Andy Hall's mate? 'm amazed the mods let you post those links.

[joebrown]

Out of "likes" but many good posts on the last two pages.

I think the Norfolk report is going to have to do with either the cause of death being different from the Thai report or, They were able to collect DNA and from the body that is not the B2's. I have to also agree with Bulldozer Dawn, authorities in Thailand don't give a toss what people outside of Thailand think as long as their bottom line isn't effected... Tourism is a bit shaky these days with all that's going on but not shaky enough to scare these people. I won't be shocked if the B2 are found guilty after this farce, sadly.

Can I add to this its BOTH reports of both victims. Differences in the findings. Trust me on this.

You know, I hadn't even thought of the coroner having David's report as well... Completely didn't even think of it, Thank you. That makes it a double-whammy for the prosecution because for sure, David's report will blow the RTP's theory both victims were killed with the hoe out of the water in court. The evidence against the accused is all but sunk as it is and conflicting pathology reports are another major issue for the court moving forward. Unbelievable, it's all that keep springing to mind. Like some kind of old Twilight Zone story.

I'm hoping 'Madaussie' will also see this post, because he seems to be privy to some very pertinent information. You are talking about the UK Coroner's reports having been handed to the Samui judge(s), intimating discrepancies when compared to the Thai findings, limited as they are. I'm pleased the UK Coroner has released the reports, but of course they are still' sub-judice' as the UK inquests have not been held yet.

My concern and question to you is at what stage of the trial process will they (UK Coroner's reports) become of use, if any to the B2. It seems the judge(s) have been handed a potentiall 'time-bomb', but if they chose to they could simply ignore it and pass a guilty verdict, to keep their paymasters faces smiling. At some stage or other the UK Coroner's reports are going to be made public, and if they reveal a miscarriage of justice after the B2 are found guilty, then the defence are left with a long appeals process and the B2 a prolonged incarceration.

I read that further defence witnesses include specialists in the field of forensics/pathology, so are we to expect the 'discrepancies' to be aired in open court for the world to see, or are the discrepancies now only for the eyes of the judges to consider in private before a verdict is announced? IMHO I think that if it's the latter, then I would welcome a 'leak' of the contents of the Coroner's reports to the media 'post-haste', because IMHO it has been the 'people-power' that has so far been instrumental in giving the B2 a chance of justice. Leaking the contents of the UK Coroner's reports may cut across political protocols and the feelings of the deceaseds' families, but at the very least it might offer a chance of justice being seen to be done.

[Neeranam]

Andy Hall facebook

Eventually after several defense team requests more substantial documentation has been provided to the court regarding the alleged DNA match between the accused and samples from the female deceased body. That documentation, that seeming remains still limited and incomplete, now is the key issue under examination. Reported Dr Pornthip already started to highlight concerns regarding this evidence in her testimony and surely more to come..

Are you Andy Hall's mate? 'm amazed the mods let you post those links.

Are you another with friends on KT...........?

No, I know who did it as most do but have the intelligence to realize that they will NEVER get prosecuted, even if all the evidence in the world points to them.

[StealthEnergiser]

Andy Hall facebook

Eventually after several defense team requests more substantial documentation has been provided to the court regarding the alleged DNA match between the accused and samples from the female deceased body. That documentation, that seeming remains still limited and incomplete, now is the key issue under examination. Reported Dr Pornthip already started to highlight concerns regarding this evidence in her testimony and surely more to come..

Are you Andy Hall's mate? 'm amazed the mods let you post those links.

What is your problem ?

[phuketandsee]

Loondingle - "The coroner has carried out a meticulous forensic examination of the 2 deceased victims. They have found serious differences between the RTP pathologist's report and what is actually there for them to see. They will also have swabbed for DNA.

So different is there findings they have had to send the reports to the defence and the court. Included in this was the cause of death was not consistent with the RTP's findings I believe... on the info I have.

Just wait and see what comes out. It will I am sure"

Source?

[thailandchilli]

Andy Hall facebook

Eventually after several defense team requests more substantial documentation has been provided to the court regarding the alleged DNA match between the accused and samples from the female deceased body. That documentation, that seeming remains still limited and incomplete, now is the key issue under examination. Reported Dr Pornthip already started to highlight concerns regarding this evidence in her testimony and surely more to come..

Are you Andy Hall's mate? 'm amazed the mods let you post those links.

What is your problem ?

Your news items and links from Twitter/facebook keep this thread on topic and up to date on the current news, you've been a constant source of relevant information that I've always found useful, thanks and keep up the good work Stealth

[Darkknight666]

Andy Hall facebook

Eventually after several defense team requests more substantial documentation has been provided to the court regarding the alleged DNA match between the accused and samples from the female deceased body. That documentation, that seeming remains still limited and incomplete, now is the key issue under examination. Reported Dr Pornthip already started to highlight concerns regarding this evidence in her testimony and surely more to come..

Are you Andy Hall's mate? 'm amazed the mods let you post those links.

What is your problem ?

Don't worry SE, I'm not sure what his issue with you posting Andy's Twitter is. Andy is usually first to report things after court and not everyone uses Twitter... Especially older folks, so I'm happy the tweets are allowed here along with other things allowed. Saves me having to check 5-6 different sources for the same info.

[Darkknight666]

Loondingle - "The coroner has carried out a meticulous forensic examination of the 2 deceased victims. They have found serious differences between the RTP pathologist's report and what is actually there for them to see. They will also have swabbed for DNA.

So different is there findings they have had to send the reports to the defence and the court. Included in this was the cause of death was not consistent with the RTP's findings I believe... on the info I have.

Just wait and see what comes out. It will I am sure"

Source?

I believe he's deduced this from Attorney Nakhon's statements to the press, Not sure though as Loon has put in some work of his own..... Sure he will be along to fill you in soon!

[catsanddogs]

Andy Hall facebook

Eventually after several defense team requests more substantial documentation has been provided to the court regarding the alleged DNA match between the accused and samples from the female deceased body. That documentation, that seeming remains still limited and incomplete, now is the key issue under examination. Reported Dr Pornthip already started to highlight concerns regarding this evidence in her testimony and surely more to come..

Are you Andy Hall's mate? 'm amazed the mods let you post those links.

Are you another with friends on KT...........?

No, I know who did it as most do but have the intelligence to realize that they will NEVER get prosecuted, even if all the evidence in the world points to them.

You know who did it? I think you're going to have to elaborate after making that statement Neeranam.

[catsanddogs]

Beach cleaners discovered the Britons’ naked bodies 20 m apart by rocks on idyllic Sairee Beach on Sept. 15. A bloodstained garden hoe, commonly used by beachside bars to dig fire pits, was found nearby and has now been confirmed as the principal murder weapon, along with a wooden club.

The existence of two weapons has “made us believe that there are at least two attackers,” the deputy national police chief, Police General Somyot Pumpanmuang, told reporters Monday.

http://time.com/3420299/thailand-koh-tao-murder-hannah-witheridge-david-miller/

Wooden club in existence?

[loonodingle]

Out of "likes" but many good posts on the last two pages.

I think the Norfolk report is going to have to do with either the cause of death being different from the Thai report or, They were able to collect DNA and from the body that is not the B2's. I have to also agree with Bulldozer Dawn, authorities in Thailand don't give a toss what people outside of Thailand think as long as their bottom line isn't effected... Tourism is a bit shaky these days with all that's going on but not shaky enough to scare these people. I won't be shocked if the B2 are found guilty after this farce, sadly.

Can I add to this its BOTH reports of both victims. Differences in the findings. Trust me on this.

You know, I hadn't even thought of the coroner having David's report as well... Completely didn't even think of it, Thank you. That makes it a double-whammy for the prosecution because for sure, David's report will blow the RTP's theory both victims were killed with the hoe out of the water in court. The evidence against the accused is all but sunk as it is and conflicting pathology reports are another major issue for the court moving forward. Unbelievable, it's all that keep springing to mind. Like some kind of old Twilight Zone story.

I'm hoping 'Madaussie' will also see this post, because he seems to be privy to some very pertinent information. You are talking about the UK Coroner's reports having been handed to the Samui judge(s), intimating discrepancies when compared to the Thai findings, limited as they are. I'm pleased the UK Coroner has released the reports, but of course they are still' sub-judice' as the UK inquests have not been held yet.

My concern and question to you is at what stage of the trial process will they (UK Coroner's reports) become of use, if any to the B2. It seems the judge(s) have been handed a potentiall 'time-bomb', but if they chose to they could simply ignore it and pass a guilty verdict, to keep their paymasters faces smiling. At some stage or other the UK Coroner's reports are going to be made public, and if they reveal a miscarriage of justice after the B2 are found guilty, then the defence are left with a long appeals process and the B2 a prolonged incarceration.

I read that further defence witnesses include specialists in the field of forensics/pathology, so are we to expect the 'discrepancies' to be aired in open court for the world to see, or are the discrepancies now only for the eyes of the judges to consider in private before a verdict is announced? IMHO I think that if it's the latter, then I would welcome a 'leak' of the contents of the Coroner's reports to the media 'post-haste', because IMHO it has been the 'people-power' that has so far been instrumental in giving the B2 a chance of justice. Leaking the contents of the UK Coroner's reports may cut across political protocols and the feelings of the deceaseds' families, but at the very least it might offer a chance of justice being seen to be done.

Very good points raised in your post.

I think the defence are playing the long game. They have more expert witness's. One a former UN forensic examiner and currently on contract with the MOD.

I would like to think the defence knows its case. They have a wealth of help. The solicitors at LeighDay in London. Reprieve and of course expert witness's. They will not go down without giving it there best and by Christ is the sh! Te goner hit the fan if they are not given justice.

Khun Nakohn is quite meticulous I think. He has already stated he has enough to prove the case.

I wonder what the RTP Pathologist is going to say when the findings are released cause he is going to look so incompetent.

[stephenterry]

So the defense strategy is to nitpick the procedures of forensic analysis that led to the DNA match, the problem with that is that it's not possible to go "oopsie, false positive!" with a DNA analysis, no mistake is going to produce a DNA match for not just one, but two persons.

The only thing that would give a false match is deliberately faking the results, since A ) they don't seem to have any evidence of that and B ) they refused to do a retest of those results it all amounts to insinuations; let's see how the judge weights those insinuations against the actual results from the analysis

Exactly that I think. If the defence takes us every day a particular object on which no dna 2B, we are not out of the woods. The only tangible deduction is that the police did not disguised these parts to conviction contrary to what one says loudly here.

We can easily bet that they will now do the same with clothing non-presented by the prosecution. Then they will challenge the process of DNA levies that match and it will be judges to decide.

We can also accept that they use so weak arguments because they don't have more convincing and therefore that the two accused are guilty. Let us now see if this trial reserve us a surprise ...

you write utter tripe. Suppose an alternative universe is more your thing. I will tell you one thing. The b2 are scapegoats.

[catsanddogs]

A mute Burmese beach cleaner stumbled upon the bodies shortly after dawn. A garden hoe and wooden club found nearby were quickly fingered as the principal murder weapons.

http://time.com/3955081/thailand-koh-tao-murder-david-miller-hannah-witheridge-zaw-lin-wai-phyo-burma-myanmar

Was it a half blind gardener that discovered the bodies or a mute Burmese cleaner? Seems very convenient that these people have such disabilities. Was the mute beach cleaner in court to testify anyone know?

[Gweiloman]

So the defense strategy is to nitpick the procedures of forensic analysis that led to the DNA match, the problem with that is that it's not possible to go "oopsie, false positive!" with a DNA analysis, no mistake is going to produce a DNA match for not just one, but two persons.

The only thing that would give a false match is deliberately faking the results, since A ) they don't seem to have any evidence of that and B ) they refused to do a retest of those results it all amounts to insinuations; let's see how the judge weights those insinuations against the actual results from the analysis

Exactly that I think. If the defence takes us every day a particular object on which no dna 2B, we are not out of the woods. The only tangible deduction is that the police did not disguised these parts to conviction contrary to what one says loudly here.

We can easily bet that they will now do the same with clothing non-presented by the prosecution. Then they will challenge the process of DNA levies that match and it will be judges to decide.

We can also accept that they use so weak arguments because they don't have more convincing and therefore that the two accused are guilty. Let us now see if this trial reserve us a surprise ...

We can also accept that they use so weak arguments because they don't have more convincing and therefore that the two accused are guilty

Talk about weak arguments......

The prosecution's case is weak, extremely weak. The only "evidence" they seem to have is a retracted confession (undoubtedly obtained under torture), the presence of the suspects not far from the crime scene (willingly offered up by the defence, as it does not prove or even point to certain guilt), a handphone purportedly belonging to David found near the B2's residence (not on them or in their room) and a claimed DNA match (but as yet, no confirmation of whether this in fact matches the sperm). The prosecution's defenders on TV have also not put forward any compelling evidence as to the B2's guilt.

And yet, you seem certain of their guilt. Strange.

[Gweiloman]

Stealth could you pm me some other sites to read about this case? My searchs come up in vain...one off blog posts without near the in depth analysis or forum conversations like we have here. Thank you.

The quote comes from an Andrew Drummond article, not particularly reliable source in my opinion.

Having said that if there is clear evidence that the DNA analysis was tampered with then that's significant, but simply saying that some data is incorrect, or other was edited without giving a context or explaining relevance is not much to hang a hat on.

For example, from what I know, the date of death in David Miller's autopsy report was incorrect, obviously that would be a clerical error since there is no reasonable explanation of why the person writing the report would fake that. Of course that could easily be spun as "We have found significant errors in the autopsy report" in order to discredit the results of the autopsy; while the statement would be true it does not follow that the results of the autopsy are in error.

As the saying goes, a little knowledge is a dangerous thing.

It would seem that you, AleG, have a lot of knowledge, which would seem to be an even more dangerous thing.

Would it be possible for you to answer few simple questions (that have been previously put to you) to establish your bona fide and sincerity.

Here are two questions that KunMatt posted a couple of days ago, on 11 Sept:

1. Do you now accept that the B2 were tortured into confessing?

2. Do you still believe the RTP's case against the B2 is solid and that the B2 are guilty?

To which I added a couple yesterday, 12 Sept:

1. Why your interest in this case?

2. What is your connection to Koh Tao, and those involved in the case?

If you are not prepared give a straight answers, we have to assume your interest in the case is to obfuscate the truth, and stir up enough trouble to get this thread closed…….

Thus apparently earning kudos from those whose faces you seek to save. AleG, in truth, they care no more about you than the Burmese staff they employ, and are prepared to make scapegoats of if it suits their purposes.

You won't get an answer mate. However, I'm more than willing as I'm sure many others are.

1. Yes

2. No and no

1. to see justice done

2. None and none