Koh Tao murders: 2 DNA profiles from alleged murder weapon do not match defendants' DNA

[catsanddogs]

Says you. I would be more inclined to agree with you had there been previous reports of late night clothing robberies along the Koh Tao beaches ... or that the shoes that were missing were valuable Gucci loafers.

And they are more likely to agree with me rather than you. Of course this is Thailand, so anything could happen.

Here's one t shirt thief

So Maung was wearing the top at 1.52am. B2 said they went to bed sometime between 2 and 3am. Was it reported in the press that Maung said he left the B2 on the beach at 1am to see his girlfriend? Maung has a lot he needs to reveal so hope he is on the defence list for court.

No if you look at the time stamp with MM it states 2.01am +52 sec but yes the B2 said they left the beach between 2 and 3am. I agree MM has more information I'm sure, but he's in Burma and won't be returning.

Thanks for the correction on time. What was he doing wandering the streets at 2.01am when he said he left the B2 at 1am to go and see his girlfriend? I don't see a girl on the CCTV still with him.

[Basil B]

Has the photo mentioned in this article ever been published or found?

http://www.nationmultimedia.com/opinion/What-about-bar-manager-accused-of-harassing-victim-30246806.html

Quote: "Did police ever look into the death threats made against the British witness to trace their source? That might lead to the rapists and murderers".

Did they ever do anything about the threats to the translators, warned off attending court...

Edited September 16, 2015 by Basil B

[thailandchilli]

So Maung was wearing the top at 1.52am. B2 said they went to bed sometime between 2 and 3am. Was it reported in the press that Maung said he left the B2 on the beach at 1am to see his girlfriend? Maung has a lot he needs to reveal so hope he is on the defence list for court.

No if you look at the time stamp with MM it states 2.01am +52 sec but yes the B2 said they left the beach between 2 and 3am. I agree MM has more information I'm sure, but he's in Burma and won't be returning.

Thanks for the correction on time. What was he doing wandering the streets at 2.01am when he said he left the B2 at 1am to go and see his girlfriend? I don't see a girl on the CCTV still with him.

Good question that I've often asked myself. He attended the preliminary court hearing in Oct along with the 2 other Burmese witnesses who said they received the phone from one of the B2. As soon as the court day was finished they skipped back to Burma.

Paid off by someone?

[AleG]

A DNA Match from a Cigarette Butt found near the crime scene and log which matched Hannah's. Upon further investigation they tracked it down to 3 migrant workers playing a guitar there on the night of the murders. During this investigation they announced to the Media that they were looking for these people playing a guitar.

Win soon after took a night ferry and was caught the next morning on the Mainland, where he was taken in for questioning. Win was the first to confess which lead to Lin and Muang's arrest shortly afterwards. Muang was released when his DNA did not match Hannah's, Win and Lin said he was not involved, and he had an alibi as he left earlier to be with his girlfriend.

The other thing is that at least one of them was summoned to provide DNA samples a few days before the arrests. I think it's quite possible that the police moved in due to the results from samples, or at the very least it would explain why the police announced a match so soon after the arrests.

[thailandchilli]

A DNA Match from a Cigarette Butt found near the crime scene and log which matched Hannah's. Upon further investigation they tracked it down to 3 migrant workers playing a guitar there on the night of the murders. During this investigation they announced to the Media that they were looking for these people playing a guitar.

Win soon after took a night ferry and was caught the next morning on the Mainland, where he was taken in for questioning. Win was the first to confess which lead to Lin and Muang's arrest shortly afterwards. Muang was released when his DNA did not match Hannah's, Win and Lin said he was not involved, and he had an alibi as he left earlier to be with his girlfriend.

The other thing is that at least one of them was summoned to provide DNA samples a few days before the arrests. I think it's quite possible that the police moved in due to the results from samples, or at the very least it would explain why the police announced a match so soon after the arrests.

Or it could also be "The forensics officer witness explained how surprisingly quick her whole DNA testing process was completed/result available within few hours"

Same place that they cannot distinguish the colour of a hair!

Edited September 16, 2015 by thailandchilli

[Aj Mick]

We all know that the DNA is all the prosecution has left so it is the crux of the case no but I cannot remember the order. Did they arrest the B2 because they matched their DNA prior, or did they arrest them first and then get a DNA match after their arrest?

Match was after confessions - who would have thought it?

So they had no DNA match, they arrested the B2, THEN they say they found David's phone behind their residence, and THEN they matched their DNA.

So what led them to arrest the B2 in the first place??

A DNA Match from a Cigarette Butt found near the crime scene and log which matched Hannah's. Upon further investigation they tracked it down to 3 migrant workers playing a guitar there on the night of the murders. During this investigation they announced to the Media that they were looking for these people playing a guitar.

Win soon after took a night ferry and was caught the next morning on the Mainland, where he was taken in for questioning. Win was the first to confess which lead to Lin and Muang's arrest shortly afterwards. Muang was released when his DNA did not match Hannah's, Win and Lin said he was not involved, and he had an alibi as he left earlier to be with his girlfriend.

Like, took the ferry a couple of weeks later to avoid / sort out some immigration irregularity.

And, hardly surprising to find cigarette butts from their smokes on the beach, given that they freely admit that had been in the vicinity (well, 60 metres away), drinking and playing guitar earlier in that morning. And hardly surprising to find Hanna's cigarette butts given that she had been peacefully on the beach until she was murdered. We only have the RTP saying that there is a match between what was found on/in Hannah, and there is no apparently no possibility of verifying their "findings" because what they had has all been "used up" or whatever.

What they did not freely admit to was being involved in the rape and murder. Even with the possibility of death sentence being reduced to a life sentence is not enough to induce them to confess to a crime they did not commit. That "confession" was extracted under torture, and has rightfully been withdrawn.

Edited September 16, 2015 by Aj Mick

[sambum]

The RTP officers in charge of the Koh Tao investigation are nothing but a pile of incompetent and corrupt pig manure! After the rapid fire of cockups during the investigation, the victims' families stated that they were "satisfied with the investigation led by the RTP", what to me was the biggest insult to the victims in the whole case - carried out by the people who should care the most.

All my sympathies for the parents faded back then and haven't been reinstored ever since. The whole case and the legal prodeedings in court show how low the country has sunken, a signal to the rest of the world, reassuring each and everyone that money in LOS can buy anything.

For the sake of Hannah and David I prey every day that the case is blown wide open by some proceedings error, a CCTV video of the pier that pops up magically, or a former coward eye witness (Sean?) changing his mind and stating in public under oath who the true murderers and rapists are... Unless a miracle happens, I see no chance for the B2, since the ulcer of corruption spreads from bottom to top, obviously.

Forgot to mention: Shame also on any of David's and Hannah's "friends" who witnessed what happened back at AC bar but didn't tell. I hope you will receive ample punishment for that by simple Karma. May god have mercy on your souls!

" the victims' families stated that they were "satisfied with the investigation led by the RTP"

I know it's been said MANY times before, but the victims' families were only given information by the UK police that had been given to them by the RTP.

In other words, if you were in the families' position, desperately wanting some information, and a UK policeman that had been to Koh Tao to "investigate" (which actually turned out to be "observe") said "Well, from what we have been told and shown by the Thai Police, it would appear that the 2 Burmese that they have in custody have a difficult case to answer", what would your reaction be?

Edited September 16, 2015 by sambum

[GOLDBUGGY]

A DNA Match from a Cigarette Butt found near the crime scene and log which matched Hannah's. Upon further investigation they tracked it down to 3 migrant workers playing a guitar there on the night of the murders. During this investigation they announced to the Media that they were looking for these people playing a guitar.

Win soon after took a night ferry and was caught the next morning on the Mainland, where he was taken in for questioning. Win was the first to confess which lead to Lin and Muang's arrest shortly afterwards. Muang was released when his DNA did not match Hannah's, Win and Lin said he was not involved, and he had an alibi as he left earlier to be with his girlfriend.

The other thing is that at least one of them was summoned to provide DNA samples a few days before the arrests. I think it's quite possible that the police moved in due to the results from samples, or at the very least it would explain why the police announced a match so soon after the arrests.

That could very well be AleG. I honestly don't remember that particular media report but I do remember a High Rank Police Official saying that they allegedly approached one of the accuse (which I believe was Win) and showed him that his DNA matched, which was later claimed it was when he confused. So they must have got that off him early if that is true.

[thailandchilli]

^^^^^^^^^

EDIT - Should have been below the previous post by Mr G.B.

Edited September 16, 2015 by thailandchilli

[StealthEnergiser]

It's time for people think seriously about replying to two certain posters and in my opinion one has certainly shown his true colours .

He even questioned another poster by pm when asked to drop the subject yesterday for one day out of respect .

Thats the type of request no one should question.

Respect is a big thing and the kind words yesterday that were expressed by many posters shows there true feelings and emotions.

The posters that have just been here to defend every RTP posts really shows now their agenda is just one sided.

They have no other interest other that getting these threads closed down.

So many posters have been given holidays due to these people simply because that can't sit back and accept the insults the certain RTP defenders are throwing.

This is only my personal opinion, everybody has a right to post but don't let them get to you because going on past history on this thread and others the respectful posters have been given holidays and the RTP defenders remain.

It is time to completely ignore them and keep these threads open they are important .

99.9 percent of posters want the complete truth to come out it appears others don't .

I am sure many times info that has arisen on these threads has been very useful to the case.

image.jpg

another good bit of advice

[StealthEnergiser]

[Darkknight666]

^ Still I can't believe that man is a cop... A higher ranking one at that. Scary.

[AleG]

The other thing is that at least one of them was summoned to provide DNA samples a few days before the arrests. I think it's quite possible that the police moved in due to the results from samples, or at the very least it would explain why the police announced a match so soon after the arrests.

That could very well be AleG. I honestly don't remember that particular media report but I do remember a High Rank Police Official saying that they allegedly approached one of the accuse (which I believe was Win) and showed him that his DNA matched, which was later claimed it was when he confused. So they must have got that off him early if that is true.

I think it was on the 25th of September, there's a picture of Zaw Lin (if I remember correctly) standing in line waiting to have samples taken at the time the police carried out a mass sampling of people on the island. The labs had to go through 200 or so tests, a match showing up five days after the samples were taken is a perfectly reasonable expectation.

[StealthEnergiser]

^ Still I can't believe that man is a cop... A higher ranking one at that. Scary.

yes apparently he is a DJ also

[thailandchilli]

^ Still I can't believe that man is a cop... A higher ranking one at that. Scary.

yes apparently he is a DJ also

dj.jpg

No doubt very good friends with some of the initial suspects also. Oh was he the one first on the scene, if so then its Mon that called him

Edited September 16, 2015 by thailandchilli

[sambum]

There are no samples left for a simple, but very important reason.

They could and almost certainly would implicate people who are at large on Koh Tao and make liars of the leader of the country and the police.

In any civilised court if the prosecution was to tell the court that all samples were lost or "used" I would expect the judge to dismiss the case immediately and probably humiliate the prosecution publicly.

But this is Thailand....

Eggsacctly!

[StealthEnergiser]

There are no samples left for a simple, but very important reason.

They could and almost certainly would implicate people who are at large on Koh Tao and make liars of the leader of the country and the police.

In any civilised court if the prosecution was to tell the court that all samples were lost or "used" I would expect the judge to dismiss the case immediately and probably humiliate the prosecution publicly.

But this is Thailand....

Eggsacctly!

[Aj Mick]

From the overly nested post above: I would suggest that there is NO basis to form any conclusion either way.

The Judges will make that decision most likely without ever hearing your suggestion.

.. but hopefully not without considering and pondering the defense material

The Judges may consider this: Is the defense's alibi credible?

They hardly need an alibi, given that the case the prosecution have had to (or, have been forced to) work with from the RTP is incredibly, incredulously, nebulously incredible.

As long as the judges are judging the case on its merits……. rather than under duress from the powers that be, or under influence by diverse means from powerful others……. they must surely find the defence's case credible.

Edited September 16, 2015 by Aj Mick

[catsanddogs]

A DNA Match from a Cigarette Butt found near the crime scene and log which matched Hannah's. Upon further investigation they tracked it down to 3 migrant workers playing a guitar there on the night of the murders. During this investigation they announced to the Media that they were looking for these people playing a guitar.

Win soon after took a night ferry and was caught the next morning on the Mainland, where he was taken in for questioning. Win was the first to confess which lead to Lin and Muang's arrest shortly afterwards. Muang was released when his DNA did not match Hannah's, Win and Lin said he was not involved, and he had an alibi as he left earlier to be with his girlfriend.

The other thing is that at least one of them was summoned to provide DNA samples a few days before the arrests. I think it's quite possible that the police moved in due to the results from samples, or at the very least it would explain why the police announced a match so soon after the arrests.

That could very well be AleG. I honestly don't remember that particular media report but I do remember a High Rank Police Official saying that they allegedly approached one of the accuse (which I believe was Win) and showed him that his DNA matched, which was later claimed it was when he confused. So they must have got that off him early if that is true.

'High Rank Police Official' means nothing in this investigation. Rank yes.

[GOLDBUGGY]

The clothes that the suspects were wearing on the night of they allegedly carried out a bloody murder, not important.

It's not as if they were involved in the murders they would have a motive to get rid of them or anything...

Unless of course if someone left a pair of shoes or other clothes at the crime scene they swore they were never at. I do know some of these were checked and a DNA Test was carried out on some shoes. I wonder why they would do a DNA Test on those if they just belonged to David or Hannah.

But then if you went for a swim and when you got out your clothes and shoes weren't their, well then anyone could have taken them. Even the real Murder who may have left them at the crime scene for all we know.

Give it a rest GB. The only missing clothes of any consequence are those of Hannah's. I think even you would realize that DNA on them would identify the murderers. And maybe even you could understand that the absence of any provided by the prosecution shows that the b2 are scapegoats.

Sorry but I never saw one shred of proof these clothes are "Missing". I never heard one way or the other they were not tested. Dr. Pornthip certainly never mentioned it in the Trial I know of. She mentioned blood in the sand that wasn't tested but said nothing about missing clothes. Maybe this will come on on the next trial date but as it stands most of the newspapers I checked never mentioned she said this. So who did?

[Madaussie]

I am very much in sympathy with everything you write, with one caveat. Sometimes, messages like "the defense turned down the opportunity to retest Hannah's DNA", while just a cynical attempt to suggest doubt about the Burmese kids' innocence, can be convincing to those who do not follow the case closely. It is important in such cases to ensure such messages are put in proper context. The court of public opinion, while often flawed, is an important tool here for those who want justice for the scapegoats.

I am sorry but I wasn't trying to be cynical.

It was clearly reported in the Media that the Defense had this opportunity to retest Hannah's DNA, and the Defense refused. Which at that time even surprised the reporter. I to found it odd as it seemed to me that they have been asking for this for months. I am on record as saying that I hoped they would be allowed to retest all the DNA, and I still am.

Later the Defense gave their reasons for that. But if you do not believe the Defense and it suggests to you they are guilty, well then this is your own opinion which you are entitled to.

If a semen sample still exists, I would very much like to see it tested. It may be that you have not read up on DNA testing and carefully read what the (deliberately confusing) statements of the prosecution witnesses imply. When a prosecution witness said that the samples "were used up", he was referring to the original samples. When a later witness referred to "replicated DNA" this refers to an intermediate step in the DNA testing process where cells are extracted and their DNA amplified. It is normal to keep some of this replicated DNA to run additional tests, but it is substantially different from the original sample. You cannot tell whether it originated with semen, saliva, sweat or whatever. Further, it degrades quite rapidly. To retest degraded replicated DNA taken from samples that were not properly documented and provided by the RTP that you already believe have falsified the results does not make sense.

When the defense were told the DNA samples were still available for retesting, they (like nearly everyone else) failed to read the small print. Only when they discussed this with forensic experts did they understand the truth.

The problem is the WHOLE chain of custody is shot to bits. no one really knows the truth because the UK Gov failed to verify the DNA as asked for by friends, family and concerned citizens of David and Hannah.

If this had of been done we wouldn't be in half the mess we are now.,

[Madaussie]

The clothes that the suspects were wearing on the night of they allegedly carried out a bloody murder, not important.

It's not as if they were involved in the murders they would have a motive to get rid of them or anything...

So you can see my posts.

1. Do you now believe the the B2 were tortured into confessing?

2. Do you honestly believe the prosecution's case against the B2?

And…….

1. Why your interest in this case?

2. What is your connection to Koh Tao, and those involved in the case?

Don't hold your breath he isn't here to answer your questions just to defend the RTP and the Locals.

[catsanddogs]

^ Still I can't believe that man is a cop... A higher ranking one at that. Scary.

yes apparently he is a DJ also

dj.jpg

No doubt very good friends with some of the initial suspects also. Oh was he the one first on the scene, if so then its Mon that called him

The police said in court they did not know the name of the person that phoned to report the dead bodies remember? Another outright obvious lie.

[KunMatt]

The clothes that the suspects were wearing on the night of they allegedly carried out a bloody murder, not important.

It's not as if they were involved in the murders they would have a motive to get rid of them or anything...

So you can see my posts.

1. Do you now believe the the B2 were tortured into confessing?

2. Do you honestly believe the prosecution's case against the B2?

And…….

1. Why your interest in this case?

2. What is your connection to Koh Tao, and those involved in the case?

Don't hold your breath he isn't here to answer your questions just to defend the RTP and the Locals.

It's hilarious that he is blatantly ignoring important questions but continues to post the same 2 points (phone and clothes) over and over that he thinks proves the B2 are guilty of these crimes in spite of the overwhelming evidence against the prosecution.

It is absolute proof that he is a shill.

[thailandchilli]

The clothes that the suspects were wearing on the night of they allegedly carried out a bloody murder, not important.

It's not as if they were involved in the murders they would have a motive to get rid of them or anything...

Unless of course if someone left a pair of shoes or other clothes at the crime scene they swore they were never at. I do know some of these were checked and a DNA Test was carried out on some shoes. I wonder why they would do a DNA Test on those if they just belonged to David or Hannah.

But then if you went for a swim and when you got out your clothes and shoes weren't their, well then anyone could have taken them. Even the real Murder who may have left them at the crime scene for all we know.

Give it a rest GB. The only missing clothes of any consequence are those of Hannah's. I think even you would realize that DNA on them would identify the murderers. And maybe even you could understand that the absence of any provided by the prosecution shows that the b2 are scapegoats.

Sorry but I never saw one shred of proof these clothes are "Missing". I never heard one way or the other they were not tested. Dr. Pornthip certainly never mentioned it in the Trial I know of. She mentioned blood in the sand that wasn't tested but said nothing about missing clothes. Maybe this will come on on the next trial date but as it stands most of the newspapers I checked never mentioned she said this. So who did?

She said pools of blood found on the sand on Sairee beach in Koh Tao last September had not been gathered for DNA testing, nor had any of Ms Witheridge’s clothing which was still on her body at the time of her death. http://www.edp24.co.uk/news/crime/dna_found_on_murder_weapon_does_not_match_with_two_men_on_trial_for_killing_hannah_witheridge_1_4228734

[Wifflewaffle]

Yesterday the court heard during one interrogation session, defendant Wei Phyo had admitted changing his clothes between allegedly participating in the rape and murder of Miss Witheridge, 23, and the killing of Mr Miller, 24, and going back to the scene of the crime to find his shoes.

http://www.edp24.co.uk/news/crime/koh_tao_murder_trial_defendents_did_not_have_representation_during_interrogations_court_hears_1_4211590?usurv=skip

[StealthEnergiser]

Yesterday the court heard during one interrogation session, defendant Wei Phyo had admitted changing his clothes between allegedly participating in the rape and murder of Miss Witheridge, 23, and the killing of Mr Miller, 24, and going back to the scene of the crime to find his shoes.

http://www.edp24.co.uk/news/crime/koh_tao_murder_trial_defendents_did_not_have_representation_during_interrogations_court_hears_1_4211590?usurv=skip

You missed the part about them being tortured ?

[thailandchilli]

Yesterday the court heard during one interrogation session, defendant Wei Phyo had admitted changing his clothes between allegedly participating in the rape and murder of Miss Witheridge, 23, and the killing of Mr Miller, 24, and going back to the scene of the crime to find his shoes.

http://www.edp24.co.uk/news/crime/koh_tao_murder_trial_defendents_did_not_have_representation_during_interrogations_court_hears_1_4211590?usurv=skip

Yes with a couple of plastic bags over his head undergoing torture. More unverified evidence submitted by the ever so honest RTP

Edited September 16, 2015 by thailandchilli

[Madaussie]

They may want to try and find out who the blonde hair belongs to also that was in Hannah's hand, and those snagged in an iphone. Thats if it was blonde, great forensics dept that cant establish the colour of a hair let alone extract DNA. Perhaps they should have brought it to court and asked somebody that was not colour blind........oh wait do they know where it is now???

The doctor revealed also that he found a hair pulled out at its root in Ms Witheridge’s hand that he thought was blonde. “It was sent to the lab to be tested, but they were unable to establish its colour,” said Dr Pawat. “To my eyes, it was blonde.”

Come lets get real here.. We have 3rd world Forensics in play here.

Wait until the Inquest reports leaks out. Your all in for a shock then. Just remember Mad Aussie told ya.

[catsanddogs]

Yesterday the court heard during one interrogation session, defendant Wei Phyo had admitted changing his clothes between allegedly participating in the rape and murder of Miss Witheridge, 23, and the killing of Mr Miller, 24, and going back to the scene of the crime to find his shoes.

http://www.edp24.co.uk/news/crime/koh_tao_murder_trial_defendents_did_not_have_representation_during_interrogations_court_hears_1_4211590?usurv=skip

You missed out the last line -

The information was given by Police Colonel Ruantong to explain discrepancies in CCTV images shown to the court.

I think you might be Tony is disguise?