Koh Tao murders: 2 DNA profiles from alleged murder weapon do not match defendants' DNA

[StealthEnergiser]

Would fit very well in the whole set up

but his promotion and transfer has been planned before this murder case

- if I can trust my memory

While that could be true statement, it doesn't quite answer why he was pulled off the case at such a critical time, just after he released a report that he had evidence that connected both Mon and Nomsod to the crime scene. I think that caused a few ruffling of feathers, and he backtracked out of it over the few following days until 'Jackdaw' (appointed by Somyot) took over.

Anyway - off current topic, and debated to death on this forum.

Panya's promotion and transfer went into effect six days after he had announced the Tuwichians in the clear. I must admit to being mystified as why so many read so much into statements made by the RTP on a single day following the media circus around Sean McKenna's alleged (probably true) claim that Mon was trying to frame him and kill him. The "investigation" was a farce from the beginning. Panya allowed the local police to take the lead in "investigating" the case, and showed little interest in checking what they were telling him. He would have been forced to discuss the Tuwichians with the local police on September 23, but was happy to accept the local police's assurances that Mon and crew had cooperated and been cleared. He did not even bother to speak with Mon himself. He would have been well aware that the local police were in the process of creating scapegoats, and allowed this to go on. Panya, knowing that his promotion and transfer were imminent, was quite happy to leave the conclusion of the case to his successor. Being allowed to drop this hot potato on someone else was his good fortune.

Agreed, Panya's been debated to death in previous topics and in my opinion the most credible and reasonable theory on the start of this whole cover-up comes from Sonti, which I've posted again as I personally believe this to be true and as accurate as possible commentary on what happened in the initial stages of the enquiry.

As others have said before no one has come forward to dispute or challenge Sondhi on this, not the headman or his family not the RTP .

This really shows that there must be some truth in it.

[stephenterry]

sambum, on 06 Oct 2015 - 11:56, said:sambum, on 06 Oct 2015 - 11:56, said:

And how did they know that? Maybe presumed it was one of Hannah's own?

It's been stated in the press, or in court (I forget which) that the blond hair was not from the victim (Hannah). So if they knew it was not from the victim, they must have done some tests on it. It was said before the trial started that they were unable to extract DNA from the hair sample, which is odd, since we are now told that the root was attached.

Yes it was stated in court that after tests it was established it did not belong to Hannah

The hair, which still had the root attached when it was found on Ms Witheridge’s body by the Royal Thai Police pathologist during her autopsy, was sent for testing.

The strand test revealed it had not come from either 23 year-old Ms Witheridge, or Jersey tourist David Miller, 24, who was murdered alongside her.

http://www.eveningnews24.co.uk/news/senior_police_officers_give_contradictory_evidence_at_hannah_witheridge_murder_trial_1_4215995?utm_medium=twitter&utm_source=twitterfeed

Good. That's clear. So arrest the police officer and the forensic guy for perverting justice. Whose DNA was on the hair? And where is the profile report? About time the media is involved. Only way to get action from this cesspool of corruption and cover up by the Rtp.

[boomerangutang]

I appreciate Sonthi speaking out. Yet in the video, it's as though he's talking about the plot of a play he saw the night before. All so casual. Where's the passion to find who really did the crime? He's well-connected and rich. Could he start rattling some cages?

But I agree with the post which mentioned the video in the perspective that no one and no entity has deigned to slap a defamation suit on him for saying what he said. People like the mafia-like headman are only too eager to threaten and proceed with defamation suits - at the drop of a hat ...chet. But Sonthi is a big fish also, and probably no stranger to defamation suits and bluster.

[IslandLover]

StealthEnergiser, on 06 Oct 2015 - 14:49, said:StealthEnergiser, on 06 Oct 2015 - 14:49, said:

thailandchilli, on 06 Oct 2015 - 08:36, said:thailandchilli, on 06 Oct 2015 - 08:36, said:

Agreed, Panya's been debated to death in previous topics and in my opinion the most credible and reasonable theory on the start of this whole cover-up comes from Sonti, which I've posted again as I personally believe this to be true and as accurate as possible commentary on what happened in the initial stages of the enquiry.

As others have said before no one has come forward to dispute or challenge Sondhi on this, not the headman or his family not the RTP .

This really shows that there must be some truth in it.

I'm surprised this guy wasn't hauled away for "attitude adjustment".

[StealthEnergiser]

I never noticed this before but I believe this is David's or Hannah's room and there is a guitar case in the corner no guitar ? Was there any mention of David or Hannah having a guitar ?

Edited October 6, 2015 by StealthEnergiser

[StealthEnergiser]

It can also be seen at 18:15 in this clip.

[stephenterry]

StealthEnergiser, on 06 Oct 2015 - 14:49, said:StealthEnergiser, on 06 Oct 2015 - 14:49, said:

thailandchilli, on 06 Oct 2015 - 08:36, said:thailandchilli, on 06 Oct 2015 - 08:36, said:

Agreed, Panya's been debated to death in previous topics and in my opinion the most credible and reasonable theory on the start of this whole cover-up comes from Sonti, which I've posted again as I personally believe this to be true and as accurate as possible commentary on what happened in the initial stages of the enquiry.

As others have said before no one has come forward to dispute or challenge Sondhi on this, not the headman or his family not the RTP .

This really shows that there must be some truth in it.

I'm surprised this guy wasn't hauled away for "attitude adjustment".

I read this guy has an agenda. He would welcome a defamation charge. Also I wouldn't trust him one inch. He's best to be avoided.

[BritTim]

I appreciate Sonthi speaking out. Yet in the video, it's as though he's talking about the plot of a play he saw the night before. All so casual. Where's the passion to find who really did the crime? He's well-connected and rich. Could he start rattling some cages?

But I agree with the post which mentioned the video in the perspective that no one and no entity has deigned to slap a defamation suit on him for saying what he said. People like the mafia-like headman are only too eager to threaten and proceed with defamation suits - at the drop of a hat ...chet. But Sonthi is a big fish also, and probably no stranger to defamation suits and bluster.

IMHO, Sonthi strikes a good tone. He is a media magnate. He was trying to inform his audience, not run for political office or be a crusading human rights campaigner. Indeed, that is one of the reasons I find his arguments persuasive.

[BritTim]

StealthEnergiser, on 06 Oct 2015 - 14:49, said:StealthEnergiser, on 06 Oct 2015 - 14:49, said:

As others have said before no one has come forward to dispute or challenge Sondhi on this, not the headman or his family not the RTP .

This really shows that there must be some truth in it.

I'm surprised this guy wasn't hauled away for "attitude adjustment".

I read this guy has an agenda. He would welcome a defamation charge. Also I wouldn't trust him one inch. He's best to be avoided.

Certainly, Sonthi is a powerful and dangerous figure. I have also wondered if he was inviting a defamation suit as an excuse to have the case more thoroughly investigated. He needs to be careful, though. Being on the wrong side of an argument with Prayuth and Somyod would not be smart.

[StealthEnergiser]

Just checked this video the room with the guitar case was in David's Room

at 18:15 Edited October 6, 2015 by StealthEnergiser

[IslandLover]

StealthEnergiser, on 06 Oct 2015 - 15:57, said:

Just checked this video the room with the guitar case was in David's Room

at 18:15

It's been reported in the British press that both Hannah and David played the guitar. Hannah also had a good singing voice.

[IslandLover]

StealthEnergiser, on 06 Oct 2015 - 15:42, said:StealthEnergiser, on 06 Oct 2015 - 15:42, said:StealthEnergiser, on 06 Oct 2015 - 15:42, said:

I never noticed this before but I believe this is David's or Hannah's room and there is a guitar case in the corner no guitar ? Was there any mention of David or Hannah having a guitar ?

guitar.jpg

No. That's interesting. So, what happened to it? It has been reported in the U.K press that both Hannah and David could play the guitar. Furthermore, it was reported in the Thai press early on in the investigation that witnesses heard people on the beach that night playing guitar and singing songs in the English language.

Edited October 6, 2015 by IslandLover

[StealthEnergiser]

StealthEnergiser, on 06 Oct 2015 - 15:42, said:StealthEnergiser, on 06 Oct 2015 - 15:42, said:StealthEnergiser, on 06 Oct 2015 - 15:42, said:

I never noticed this before but I believe this is David's or Hannah's room and there is a guitar case in the corner no guitar ? Was there any mention of David or Hannah having a guitar ?

guitar.jpg

No. That's interesting. So, what happened to it? It has been reported in the U.K press that both Hannah and David could play the guitar. Furthermore, it was reported in the Thai press early on in the investigation that witnesses heard people on the beach that night playing guitar and singing songs in the English language.

I believe the video clip says that the guitar case and some personal belongings were left behind.

[StealthEnergiser]

StealthEnergiser, on 06 Oct 2015 - 15:42, said:StealthEnergiser, on 06 Oct 2015 - 15:42, said:StealthEnergiser, on 06 Oct 2015 - 15:42, said:

I never noticed this before but I believe this is David's or Hannah's room and there is a guitar case in the corner no guitar ? Was there any mention of David or Hannah having a guitar ?

guitar.jpg

No. That's interesting. So, what happened to it? It has been reported in the U.K press that both Hannah and David could play the guitar. Furthermore, it was reported in the Thai press early on in the investigation that witnesses heard people on the beach that night playing guitar and singing songs in the English language.

I believe the video clip says that the guitar case and some personal belongings were left behind.

The group had been on the beach smoking, playing guitar and singing an "English" song in the early hours of Monday morning, investigators said on Thursday.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/asia/thailand/11103347/Thai-hunt-for-British-backpackers-killer-falters.html

[catsanddogs]

StealthEnergiser, on 06 Oct 2015 - 15:42, said:StealthEnergiser, on 06 Oct 2015 - 15:42, said:StealthEnergiser, on 06 Oct 2015 - 15:42, said:

I never noticed this before but I believe this is David's or Hannah's room and there is a guitar case in the corner no guitar ? Was there any mention of David or Hannah having a guitar ?

guitar.jpg

No. That's interesting. So, what happened to it? It has been reported in the U.K press that both Hannah and David could play the guitar. Furthermore, it was reported in the Thai press early on in the investigation that witnesses heard people on the beach that night playing guitar and singing songs in the English language.

I believe the video clip says that the guitar case and some personal belongings were left behind.

It is indeed interesting. So where is the guitar? If friends or family had have taken it away with them when the left the island surely they would have put it in the case? (Didn't see the date of clip so maybe they were still on the island when the footage was taken). Also could be relevant about the westerners head singing English songs on the beach that morning as IL pointed out. If the highly suspicious owner of the the AC bar would have released CCTV then it may have been clear that David left the bar with a guitar, and at what time he left and whether he was with Hannah etc etc. Owner doesn't want anyone to see the cctv though because it would no doubt incriminate him, one of his staff, a member of his family, etc etc.

Man I really hope the defence can show the world the truth on their remaining two days and that there is someone somewhere as fearless as a lion with some serious clout that will serve Hannah and David souls as they respectfully deserve.

[IslandLover]

StealthEnergiser, on 06 Oct 2015 - 16:28, said:

StealthEnergiser, on 06 Oct 2015 - 16:17, said:

IslandLover, on 06 Oct 2015 - 16:10, said:

StealthEnergiser, on 06 Oct 2015 - 15:42, said:StealthEnergiser, on 06 Oct 2015 - 15:42, said:StealthEnergiser, on 06 Oct 2015 - 15:42, said:StealthEnergiser, on 06 Oct 2015 - 15:42, said:

I never noticed this before but I believe this is David's or Hannah's room and there is a guitar case in the corner no guitar ? Was there any mention of David or Hannah having a guitar ?

guitar.jpg

No. That's interesting. So, what happened to it? It has been reported in the U.K press that both Hannah and David could play the guitar. Furthermore, it was reported in the Thai press early on in the investigation that witnesses heard people on the beach that night playing guitar and singing songs in the English language.

I believe the video clip says that the guitar case and some personal belongings were left behind.

The group had been on the beach smoking, playing guitar and singing an "English" song in the early hours of Monday morning, investigators said on Thursday.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/asia/thailand/11103347/Thai-hunt-for-British-backpackers-killer-falters.html

Of course the other well-known singer and guitar player is Sean McAnna.

[Trisha61]

aa.jpg

Facebook page of the guy next to mon

https://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100004413677403&fref=ts&hc_location=ufi

Please note adornment on the Index Finger of the left hand.

[BritTim]

Just checked this video the room with the guitar case was in David's Room

at 18:15

The commentary on the Thai video indicated that the empty guitar case was in David's room. By itself, I cannot make anything of that. The Ware brothers would, presumably, be able to shed some light.

I was reminded of a couple of other points.

Early on, it was consistently reported that there was a group playing guitar and singing English songs. The assumption has long been that listeners confused Arakanese and English songs. I am not so sure. Most people on Koh Tao, even if not fluent in either language, would know the difference.

The Burmese kids stated that, after they finished playing guitar and singing, they put the guitar in the bar for safe keeping and went for a swim. Suppose the group singing English songs were there later, after the Burmese had left and closer to the time of the murders.

It is very possible that Hannah and David could have become part of that group and the altercation either begin or escalate there. That could explain why Hannah's friends might not have known much about what occurred. Plausible? I think so, but there is no proof.

[Trisha61]

If a police officer takes the lead on a double murder investigation it would be normal sensible and common practise to have him remain until the investigation has concluded, to have him abruptly removed and transferred whether already on the cards or not was unprofessional and wrong, the reason for this is obvious and well proven

I think, knowing the RTP, there are two obvious likely reasons, though they are not proven. The first you stated yourself: simply being extremely unprofessional. The other would be that Panya did not want the case. His promotion to one of the plumb jobs shows he had significant pull, and he could use this influence to offload a case that could have threatened his career.

Or perhaps, a case that could have threatened his life.

[IslandLover]

Trisha61, on 06 Oct 2015 - 16:58, said:

StealthEnergiser, on 06 Oct 2015 - 07:48, said:

aa.jpg

Facebook page of the guy next to mon

https://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100004413677403&fref=ts&hc_location=ufi

Please note adornment on the Index Finger of the left hand.

He's got something nasty-looking on his right hand as well. Yes, this guy's known to wear weaponized rings. I have another picture that I won't post here which clearly shows them. You will find the photo on his facebook. It's the one where he's squatting down smoking something highly suspicious

[Trisha61]

stephenterry, on 06 Oct 2015 - 06:49, said:stephenterry, on 06 Oct 2015 - 06:49, said:stephenterry, on 06 Oct 2015 - 06:49, said:

thailandchilli, on 06 Oct 2015 - 04:52, said:thailandchilli, on 06 Oct 2015 - 04:52, said:thailandchilli, on 06 Oct 2015 - 04:52, said:

stephenterry, on 05 Oct 2015 - 13:45, said:stephenterry, on 05 Oct 2015 - 13:45, said:stephenterry, on 05 Oct 2015 - 13:45, said:

What doesn't make sense is that if Hannah's blood was on the hoe blade, then the perp's DNA MUST have been on the handle alongside Hannah's. I am wondering if there were TWO female DNA on the handle, one of which could match Hannah's, and the conclusion reached was that it was ALL hers.

There has been several inconsistencies in this murder that I had doubts about. Most, if not all of these, could be answered if a Thai woman killed Hannah.

• The alleged altercation at the AC bar. A jealous G/F? that was brushed aside, but not forgotten. Males would laugh and joke and not take it seriously.
• A woman seen fleeing from the scene? Maybe one of Hannah's 'new' friends accompanying her back to her hotel who was told to run for her life when Hannah was attacked.
• Inconsistencies in autopsy reports: rape or no rape? Bite marks or no bite marks? Strange that the Thai report would indicate bite marks. Why?
• A blonde hair clutched in Hannah's hand (colour was assumed, but it could have been dyed). Females fight and hold hair.
• A reluctance for the RTP to provide Hannah's clothing. Admittedly, it could show the perps DNA - but what if it was female? And the RTP feared that Pornthip would find that out. That would blow the case right out of the water.
• The attack. Such ferocity is more than rejection, IMO. Thai females can kill if another threatens their 'face'. Was it jealously that brought on such an attack?
• The staging of the body. That is not a male thing. It's a female showing Hannah as being a slut.
• The recent reports of hoe man's (now wife) wielding a hoe. Any significance? A message to other females not to mess with her?

Mon's involvement. He and Nomsod could be implicit in covering up for Hoe man's G/F, especially if either or both were involved in killing David. IMO his death was as a result of him 'being in the way' but Hannah's death was pure hate.

Just to add to the above. Females can also be known for some extremely horrific love triangle revenge attacks using acid to completely disfigure the victim, its happened numerous times in Thailand.

As many posters have already mentioned, the hair/s are the key to the real killer/s. Natural justice at its finest. Hannah's struggle was obviously the most horrific encounter she had faced in her life, before her gruesome death she was able to make a grab at attackers head and in this act pulled out his/her hair. For Gods sake find who this hair belongs to, find the real killers!

Instead we get the RTP lying to the court on oath about their involvement with the hair:

The hair, which still had the root attached when it was found on Ms Witheridges body by the Royal Thai Police pathologist during her autopsy, was sent for testing. The strand test revealed it had not come from either 23 year-old Ms Witheridge, or Jersey tourist David Miller, 24, who was murdered alongside her.

In court today, one of the main police investigators, Lieutenant Colonel Somsak Nurod, said he had spoken to the police pathologist on the 2nd and 3rd of October, at the same time as the defendants were arrested and two weeks after the autopsies, but otherwise he had no further contact with him.

However, the defence lawyers representing the two Myanmar workers produced a statement from the pathologist, stating that Lt Col Nurod had made two separate trips to meet with him in Bangkok in late October, and again on the November 18 after both defendants had retracted their confessions.

The pathologists statement said that the meetings had included discussion on the hair found in Ms Witheridges hand. http://www.eveningnews24.co.uk/news/senior_police_officers_give_contradictory_evidence_at_hannah_witheridge_murder_trial_1_4215995

The hair in Hannah's hand did contain roots so we can discount wigs:

Thai Police Lieutenant Colonel Somsak Nurod said that a hair with roots that was found in Ms Witheridges hand had not been pursued as a lead in the case. http://www.mmtimes.com/index.php/national-news/16286-koh-tao-defendant-tells-court-of-torture.html

We also reports of other blonde hairs:

There was also blonde hair on a mobile telephone police have now located. http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/asia/thailand/11103274/DNA-found-on-body-of-murdered-British-backpacker-in-Thailand-no-match-to-suspects.html

Its been reported that the pathologist put the hair found in Hannah's hand aside. Oh really so where is it now and why did you not send it to Dr Pornthip? There can only be one reasonable answer to that question and that being that they are hiding this evidence on purpose. Justice for the victims? No chance. Respect for the victims shown by this ZERO.

I agree. Somsak Nurod should be arrested for perverting the course of justice. I would not be surprised if the DNA on it was from a female, which could explain this subterfuge by a corrupt police officer. Exactly the same reasons why Hannah's clothes were not presented to court - because there was female DNA on them.

Before you call it pure speculation, here is another stance:

As no-one knows who the real perps are, IMO no one has offered any real motive for why a) Mon should want to brutally kill two of his tourist income streams, and why Nomsod (or any other thug) would resort to such extreme violence and carry out a body staging for being rejected. And if that was the case why wouldn't he have raped her first, to show control?

While I can visualise and accept a male attack on David to get him out of the way, the same doesn't apply to Hannah as it adds up as more likely a female attack - and especially when hoe man's G/F is seen prancing around wielding a hoe. She is a prime suspect, as is Hoe man. So I'm sticking with my supposition, it was a jealous Thai woman who attacked and killed Hannah.

There is another local Thai woman who dyes her hair blond.

https://www.facebook.com/s.siincere?fref=pb&hc_location=friends_tab&pnref=friends.all

She was on KT at the time of the murders and is in Nomsod's list of friends on facebook. I remember that poster Greenchair had her in the frame at one time.

Monlada Wichean.jpg

Well done IslandLover, out of likes for today. Also curious if her and the girl mentioned earlier are friends of Nomsod's girlfriend who was bemoaning the fact that she did not know where he was that day?

[Patsycat]

For me and I'm no criminologist but the destruction to Hannahs face is consistent with jealousy from a female in rage. I buy that a woman would do that to her before any man would.

Well, if it was a woman that did that. She needs to be locked up, in a straight jacket in solitary for the rest of her pathetic ugly faced little life.

Us, normal women, can rant and rave and shout and sometimes kick. But never ever do that.

It can't have been a woman. I cannot put the idea of a woman inflicting those horrific wounds into my head. Which is still trying to unsee the photos from a year ago.

But then, it could have been anybody. Except those poor boys who are innocent.

Edited October 6, 2015 by Patsycat

[KunMatt]

Lack of regular posters robably cuz there has been no advancement on the trial for a while.

What are the remaining trial dates?

[fritzzz25]

The DNA from the blonde hair would be able to determine sex of the hair "owner". That profile would then be able to be created and used for matching - if they actually cared to try match it.

The judge should be ordering ALL evidence in the RTP possession in this case into the custody of the court for an independent analysis by an outside agency (example Singapore Police) without ANY RTP meddling. There needs to be world organizations demanding independent verification of these cases. If the dear PM and the new RTP General want to show they are taking a stand against the poor image of the RTP, where better to start than with this case.....

[catsanddogs]

The DNA from the blonde hair would be able to determine sex of the hair "owner". That profile would then be able to be created and used for matching - if they actually cared to try match it.

The judge should be ordering ALL evidence in the RTP possession in this case into the custody of the court for an independent analysis by an outside agency (example Singapore Police) without ANY RTP meddling. There needs to be world organizations demanding independent verification of these cases. If the dear PM and the new RTP General want to show they are taking a stand against the poor image of the RTP, where better to start than with this case.....

Well said. Agree.

[TheLobster]

I have followed this story since news of this horrific incident broke. Out of respect for the families I haven't engaged in the speculation and debate that has been on the forums etc.

My concern is that for such a high profile trial is that there is a limitation on the amount of time that each side has to present evidence and supply witnesses and also the time allocated to the prosecution and defense seems to be disproportionate.

The other thing that concerns me is, correct me if I'm wrong, that there have been no witnesses to the night in question that have testified or are due to testify (Other than the one's charged and their friend as far as I understand).

Edited October 6, 2015 by TheLobster

[IslandLover]

Patsycat, on 06 Oct 2015 - 19:23, said:Patsycat, on 06 Oct 2015 - 19:23, said:

steffi, on 06 Oct 2015 - 14:33, said:steffi, on 06 Oct 2015 - 14:33, said:

For me and I'm no criminologist but the destruction to Hannahs face is consistent with jealousy from a female in rage. I buy that a woman would do that to her before any man would.

Well, if it was a woman that did that. She needs to be locked up, in a straight jacket in solitary for the rest of her pathetic ugly faced little life.

Us, normal women, can rant and rave and shout and sometimes kick. But never ever do that.

It can't have been a woman. I cannot put the idea of a woman inflicting those horrific wounds into my head. Which is still trying to unsee the photos from a year ago.

But then, it could have been anybody. Except those poor boys who are innocent.

You and I wouldn't contemplate doing something like this, Patsycat, but there are some women who might. Hell hath no fury like a woman scorned.

Edited October 6, 2015 by IslandLover

[IslandLover]

KunMatt, on 06 Oct 2015 - 21:09, said:

Lack of regular posters robably cuz there has been no advancement on the trial for a while.

What are the remaining trial dates?

10th and 11th October. Yes, Saturday and Sunday.

[StealthEnergiser]

[StealthEnergiser]

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