'Defrauded by my wife and criminals in Thailand' - BBC special report

[MESmith]

Just another example of never buying property in Thailand and never Invest any Money in anything here ...

Tell that to Bill Heinecke who made his US$ 1.14 billion fortune in Thailand

Or my good friend Peter who built Cape Yamu in Phuket, or my good friend Alan Zeman and his Paradise Group that built Andara in Phuket....

I know a lot of guys who've done very well in Thailand.

Far more than the ones who've lost money.

I see it the same way,

and would not generalize this like:

- never buy a house,

- never do business or

- never marry a thai woman.

There are those who are lucky and others have bad luck.

I consider myself one of the lucky.

More than 20 years married, healthy children and my Thai wife is diligent.

But who knows in advance how it goes in the future?

Nobody.

This applies to businesses and for women

That's why

My advice is, no matter in which country you are going:

50% of your funds should be in your name and in your home country.

The other 50% of your funds you can then invest with appropriate safeguards in a foreign country.

Never, put your entire fortune on a single horse.

50% of your funds in Thailand? A bit high!

[Alwyn]

She's in prison for owing some faceless criminal gangs money? So she spunked all of his money playing cards, got into debt playing cards with these gangs that target the wive's of foreigners and cleaned him out. Had exactly the same thing happen to me, lost a business and a house. With the help (and some money) from the local mafia boss I got my car and one business back (we lost the coffee farms). I should have left at that but me being what I am I found the people and we had a confrontation. Turns out one of this gang is a hitman from Nakhon Si Thamarat and the outcome was I had to leave Samui until he has at least been arrested (he is on the run from the law apparently). Even my friends in the police etc couldn't/wouldn't help and that was the advice I got - leave! Which I did! These gangs are rife across the island in particular and if they get their hooks in, you're finished. I really feel for this chap.

[lostoday]

Yes, whatever. I'm staying at a very nice hotel and saw a good looking older gentleman just like that. He was with a barely 21 year old girl waiting for the elevator to arrive. The girl was very pretty I admit and I wish I look this good then I reach 60. But facts are facts. She totally ignored him while starting on her phone while the guy was looking at her like he was a 16 year old boy.

Boy you lost me on that one. Do you mean the guy was gay and into underage men?

[MESmith]

Only give the wife enough to do the day's shopping. If she comes home without any, something's up.

[ross163103]

After being in Thailand for 25+ years I could tell you dozens of stories similar to these two gentlemen, all with about the same outcome. In dealing with the Thai justice system--and I use that term loosely, you've got to have s**t loads of money in order to get justice. You end up paying and paying and paying till everyone along the chain has enough; and even then you might not get justice!

Looks like his current wife is Thai, what's that saying, "Once burned, shame on you, twice burned shame on me". If something like this happened to me I wouldn't take a chance on another Thai woman, but that's me.

I wish him and the other gentlemen all the best in their fight, but I don't hold out much hope for them based on stories I've heard.

[lostoday]

50% of your funds in Thailand? A bit high!

Gold is gold and a safe is a safe what's the difference? You want to leave Thailand sell the gold and leave. What's the big deal?

[lostoday]

Perhaps if you had friends who did not find their wives at bars it might help. My friends it is the Thai women who have the problems keeping the men faithful.

This thread isn't about 'faithful', it's about scamming. Faithful is a concept that never really caught on in Thailand.

I don't mind if my wife has a shag on the side, up to her. She doesn't mind if I have a shag on the side, it's the Thai way.

But I do care if she steals from me, especially if it's my home she steals.

Thai women who want to keep their men faithful,

Usually a lie told to a gullible foreigner to explain away their 'serial foreigner hunter' ways.

"Thai man no good, he big butterfly, I want fat, old, bald farang with big heart (senile brain and limp dick)"

That's bar talk. I've not noticed Thai women in general don't say that at all. Nor do I think teachers or nurses or dentists scam men with any more frequency than Western women.

Edited September 19, 2015 by lostoday

[jlwilliamsjr18]

Plain and simple...Farangs CAN NOT own property. Having it in his wifes name was risky. Old piece of advice, never invest more than you're willing to loose. That goes for love and property.

[bearpolar]

Perhaps if you had friends who did not find their wives at bars it might help. My friends it is the Thai women who have the problems keeping the men faithful.

This thread isn't about 'faithful', it's about scamming. Faithful is a concept that never really caught on in Thailand.

I don't mind if my wife has a shag on the side, up to her. She doesn't mind if I have a shag on the side, it's the Thai way.

But I do care if she steals from me, especially if it's my home she steals.

Thai women who want to keep their men faithful,

Usually a lie told to a gullible foreigner to explain away their 'serial foreigner hunter' ways.

"Thai man no good, he big butterfly, I want fat, old, bald farang with big heart (senile brain and limp dick)"

That's bar talk. I've not noticed Thai women in general don't say that at all. Nor do I think teachers or nurses or dentists scam men with any more frequency than Western women.

a common theme amongst normal thai woman is cutting the penis of cheaters. losttoday is obviously a low level expat with low level friends.

Even drunkard factory workers are above his level.

.

[balo]

Think about this , If you're married to a Thai woman , especially one with a poor background from Isaan, how can you be sure she is only married to you? I have heard of at least 5 cases where the girl was married to a Thai husband all the time and the farang husband bought a new house , car and anything she asked for. And then when farang husband is out of the country , her Thai husband who she claim to be her brother or cousin moves into the house. The whole village knows about this exept for the farang .

So if you're married to an Isaan girl maybe about time to check her earlier relationships, she could have fooled you for years.

Edited September 19, 2015 by balo

[Mudcrab]

Having said that, it would be interesting to see real statistics instead of all this anecdotal stuff. While there are a lot of guys who have been screwed, there are also a lot of successful partnerships. Too early to say whether mine is one of them. ( 6 years )

I know loads of foreigners in CM with Thai wives.

Not one of them has a successful marriage, but most of them don't know it.

Their wives aren't even very secretive about their plans to fleece and steal, they usually talk about it in front of me (they don't know I can understand).

Some of them I know their real Thai bfs or husbands, some try it on with me, some discuss stealing plans with my wife (who promptly tells me).

I have to clear out my foreigner pals on a regular basis, cos I don't want to be blamed when it all goes horribly wrong for them.

You can't tell them, because they either get angry with you (and violent) or repeat your revelations to their wife who gets angry with you (and often threatening).

One girl said to me ....... "you interfere with my business and I have you hurt"

And of course....your wife is different!!

[Mudcrab]

Doesn't answer my question........Whats normal..?

Are folk saying a disfigured guy, perhaps by military stuff, can't or should not wed a lovely lady...?

Not saying that...

But "disfigured guy, perhaps by military stuff" again is NOT normal.

Normal:

conforming to the standard or the common type; usual; not abnormal; regular; natural.

Synonyms for normal:

natural

orderly

ordinary

regular

routine

traditional

typical

average

commonplace

general

mean

median

standard

accustomed

acknowledged

conventional

customary

habitual

methodical

popular

prevalent

run-of-the-mill

typic

unexceptional

you forgot:

boring

standard issue know it all farang

[robertson468]

Okay, okay, let's get a bit of balance here. Sure Ian has been well and truly stuffed, without knowing all the details, it sounds like a very naive young lady also got stuffed by a group of gangsters and both, in their own ways are paying the penalty. And people the world over are being hoodwinked either in a small way or in a huge way (look at the Ponzie Scam).

I am married to a lovely Thai Lady and have been so for nine years. She is 26 years my junior. We (she) runs a small Resort and 7 years back we decided to expand our portfolio of houses. We wanted to buy a lovely Town House and one of her long term Friends said she would like to buy one as well. We (she) bought ours on a mortgage which could easily be covered by the Resort's income. Her Friend said she had hit a snag because her ex-husband had used her credit card to the max and had not paid anything back on it. She said, not to worry, I will pay it all off and then apply for the mortgage, but she was worried that all the houses might be sold by the time she sorted the mess out. Would my lovely wife mind taking out a second mortgage for her house and immediately the finances were good again, she would take over the second mortgage. Time went by and after many phone calls, the so called friend said she no longer wanted the house!! We had two houses and two mortgages and to furnish the second house we had to put our car into finance as well. We now ended up with a debt three times the size that we had calculated we could afford, and began to bump along being almost bankrupt. High season would come and we would save a bit from the income in that period, but then we would be scraping the bottom of the barrel during low season and it was quite frightening. Three years ago, we worked out we were about to go under. She spoke to her Parents who told her off and said, why didn't we tell them before and immediately stumped up 200,000 baht to tide us over. They then built another house, at their cost and gifted it to us. We have now turned the corner from being asset rich and cash poor to asset rich and cash rich, but all due to our lovely Thai Family. So you see all is not doom and gloom in the Land of Smiles and I know many of my Friends who are also living a happy, contented life with thriving businesses, helped by their lovely young Thai Wives.

[bbbbooboo]

lol.....this is a classic photo. A corpulent older farang man ( not particularly sober I suggest) posing with his Thai daughter

[lostoday]

This thread isn't about 'faithful', it's about scamming. Faithful is a concept that never really caught on in Thailand.

I don't mind if my wife has a shag on the side, up to her. She doesn't mind if I have a shag on the side, it's the Thai way.

But I do care if she steals from me, especially if it's my home she steals.

Thai women who want to keep their men faithful,

Usually a lie told to a gullible foreigner to explain away their 'serial foreigner hunter' ways.

"Thai man no good, he big butterfly, I want fat, old, bald farang with big heart (senile brain and limp dick)"

That's bar talk. I've not noticed Thai women in general don't say that at all. Nor do I think teachers or nurses or dentists scam men with any more frequency than Western women.

a common theme amongst normal thai woman is cutting the penis of cheaters. losttoday is obviously a low level expat with low level friends.

Even drunkard factory workers are above his level.

I am sure you didn't want to needlessly flame or insult me did you have a reason for writing, " losttoday is obviously a low level expat with low level friends. Even drunkard factory workers are above his level."

How would you know who my friends or associates are?

Edited September 19, 2015 by lostoday

[RapidMethod]

1. Don't invest more than you can afford to lose

2. Make sure you are worth more alive than dead.

Rules for living in Thailand (and Vietnam, and the Philippines -- and Laos, Cambodia and China, for all I know..)

I advise people on retiring or living long term in Thailand and these are also top of the list of rules I provide - in fact, it's such vital knowledge for anyone coming to Thailand that I'm preparing a kindle ebook to warn people on how to visit or live in Thailand safely.

Some of the other top rules:

3. Don't get into an argument or heated discussion with a Thai person

3a. Don't have a disagreement in public or make the person feel a fool in any way. Be prepared to swallow your pride, accept that you've been cheated, and move on!

4. Learn to speak and read Thai! It's not foolproof of course, you can still be defrauded. But if you can't communicate in Thai then you are virtually powerless and are forced to deal with the situation like a blind/deaf mute. I noticed that in the video most of the Thai officials were quite bewildered, and even those who could speak English couldn't really grasp the fine details of the various complaints. There's little excuse when you've been living here five or more years and are married to a Thai and have Thai children to boot!

5. A corollary to Nick's rule no. 1 is don't invest in Thailand - i.e. do not expect a return on your investment. Spend just enough money to enjoy a comfortable life, have a nice home, car, motorbike and other possessions, but on the assumption that you won't get your money back. Think of it simply as the "cost of living in Thailand". You can go for leasehold, Usufructus, etc. but don't try to own your property outright.

There's more, but the principle is the same. Whatever you buy, expect to lose it. Be aware that you are liable for your spouse's debts. So watch what money she borrows, particularly from loan sharks (almost impossible to do of course)... so my advice usually is to be cagey about your true wealth. I suggest that you have an income of no more than 50,000 baht per month (60,000 maybe in order to qualify for retirement visa). This is already "affluent" by Thai standards. No matter how much you trust your spouse, keep the money/financial side of your life to yourself! Don't even live a lifestyle of affluence or be a spendthrift because you just become a beacon of wealth that will make you a desirable target (if not by your spouse then by the sister/brother/mother/cousin/neighbor/friend/kik...)

6. Drive (and cycle and walk) ultra-defensively. I can't go into a lot of detail here, it takes up such a large chunk of my book. Every time you get into your car or onto your bike or walk across the road, keep in mind that you might die today. Don't get angry and distracted. You might not get mugged, raped, shot at or murdered in Thailand (compared with some US cities and parts of London, say) but you will probably get seriously injured or die in a road accident!

6a. Make sure you have enough accident insurance and check the clause about motorbikes!

7. Don't do drugs. Don't hang about with people who do drugs. There's plenty of people who take drugs and get away with it, perhaps for years. If you're fairly well-off and live in an expensive moobaan then most of the young adults and teenagers (including your own! don't think they aren't) will be doing drugs and the police will mostly not interfere (so long as the drug selling and using of drugs stays within the confines of the moobaan). There's obviously plenty of drug-taking at outdoor parties, etc. and mostly the police will turn a blind eye. But you might just get unlucky and end up in a crackdown. And then your life is over!

I'm not saying this because I'm against (recreational) drugs. I think you should be able to buy or sell whatever drug floats your boat, in a safe, controlled, QC (and taxed) market. But you need to face reality.

The problem is when someone is out to get you. it might be a neighbor, it might be your 'friend' (usually another farang), it might be your wife's jealous lover. If you are in the same room or vehicle as a person who is busted with drugs then you are assumed guilty and - worse - you will get the maximum sentence (10/20 years!), while a Thai person will probably get a year or two, and maybe even be out on probation in a few months.

7a. Do not sell or deliver drugs. It's just not worth it. You'll probably get caught and it'll most likely be because you're being done by the dealer.

Thailand (and most of SE Asia) is not the place if you enjoy taking drugs. Go to Europe for that, it's more or less legal there (in practice, the police don't really want to waste their time on drug enforcement and you'll usually get a warning or a suspended sentence or similar).

There's plenty more rules. These are probably the essential ones. Please reply if you can think of more and I'll include them in the book.

[thaiturkey]

He could have saved all his money by using a lawyer in Bangkok (International Law Firms) which also work closely with embassies and we would have been well protected.

This chap didn't do his homework when he start spending all his money on properties.

DOUBLE BULLSHIT

One of the most crooked lawyers was on the British Embassy list until I had him removed. He is back on the list hiding behind another law office.

He is also touting for clients (suckers) on this website...".Ask the A??hole" . I only know of 2 straight lawyers in the country, and even they do not have the guts to take on their crooked colleagues.

[Mudcrab]

Stupid IS what stupid DOES ?

Weeeell....there's Forrest yet again.

Anyone want to play cliche bingo?

Really easy.... every time you see the standard "never invest..." "lower than the fleas" or "run Forrest run" type posts, you stick you fingers down your throat and vomit.

Whoever throws up first wins.

Easy.

Hours of fun for all.

[ozyjon]

his life was turned upside down when he discovered his wife of nine years, with whom he had three children,

The Thais are a patient lot.

[NCC1701A]

so super over weight Ian could not see this coming?

sorry to say, just look at the body language and expression on this wife's face in all the photos.

in the first 30 seconds you hear him say "... I was looking for a place with rule of law..."

are you completely clueless? everything in this video is what I found on google seven years ago on the first day researching Thailand. He must have never done a moments research.

I am sure Ian has a big heart, loved his wife and is a good and trusting person.

But you must have a healthy dose of paranoia to survive in Thailand.

Don't get married! Don't "buy" land. Assume nothing.

This is the land of the Klingons, Spock.

The way that I understand the place is simple enough. I think of countries like Australia or the UK where there is so much dogma and so many dogmatic people. Here there is no dogma, ergo the people float around anything principled like ducks on a pond. Or, more simply put it is dog eat dog. As masochistic as it sounds I feel at home amongst it because I have always been an outlaw though I do try so to maintain a sense of honour and indecency.

and one thing about being Mr. Spock, he knows this is all an illusion. "Any doubt, and the bullets will kill you."

Thailand is just a big game. I grew up in the biggest game and illusion in the world living in Hollywood. That is why it is easy for me here. Again, I am sure Ian is a great guy, big heart, loves his children. But a guy has to know how to play the game and never forget about the illusion that is Thailand.

Ian had big money and all he had to do was rent everything. So when it blew up, he could walk away.

Even with supporting the kids, he could have gone to Pattaya and had sex with a different woman every day for the rest of his life and still come out ahead.

and imagine if he ate right and had worked out everyday...

[Mudcrab]

1. Don't invest more than you can afford to lose

2. Make sure you are worth more alive than dead.

Rules for living in Thailand (and Vietnam, and the Philippines -- and Laos, Cambodia and China, for all I know..)

I advise people on retiring or living long term in Thailand and these are also top of the list of rules I provide - in fact, it's such vital knowledge for anyone coming to Thailand that I'm preparing a kindle ebook to warn people on how to visit or live in Thailand safely.

Some of the other top rules:

3. Don't get into an argument or heated discussion with a Thai person

3a. Don't have a disagreement in public or make the person feel a fool in any way. Be prepared to swallow your pride, accept that you've been cheated, and move on!

4. Learn to speak and read Thai! It's not foolproof of course, you can still be defrauded. But if you can't communicate in Thai then you are virtually powerless and are forced to deal with the situation like a blind/deaf mute. I noticed that in the video most of the Thai officials were quite bewildered, and even those who could speak English couldn't really grasp the fine details of the various complaints. There's little excuse when you've been living here five or more years and are married to a Thai and have Thai children to boot!

5. A corollary to Nick's rule no. 1 is don't invest in Thailand - i.e. do not expect a return on your investment. Spend just enough money to enjoy a comfortable life, have a nice home, car, motorbike and other possessions, but on the assumption that you won't get your money back. Think of it simply as the "cost of living in Thailand". You can go for leasehold, Usufructus, etc. but don't try to own your property outright.

There's more, but the principle is the same. Whatever you buy, expect to lose it. Be aware that you are liable for your spouse's debts. So watch what money she borrows, particularly from loan sharks (almost impossible to do of course)... so my advice usually is to be cagey about your true wealth. I suggest that you have an income of no more than 50,000 baht per month (60,000 maybe in order to qualify for retirement visa). This is already "affluent" by Thai standards. No matter how much you trust your spouse, keep the money/financial side of your life to yourself! Don't even live a lifestyle of affluence or be a spendthrift because you just become a beacon of wealth that will make you a desirable target (if not by your spouse then by the sister/brother/mother/cousin/neighbor/friend/kik...)

6. Drive (and cycle and walk) ultra-defensively. I can't go into a lot of detail here, it takes up such a large chunk of my book. Every time you get into your car or onto your bike or walk across the road, keep in mind that you might die today. Don't get angry and distracted. You might not get mugged, raped, shot at or murdered in Thailand (compared with some US cities and parts of London, say) but you will probably get seriously injured or die in a road accident!

6a. Make sure you have enough accident insurance and check the clause about motorbikes!

7. Don't do drugs. Don't hang about with people who do drugs. There's plenty of people who take drugs and get away with it, perhaps for years. If you're fairly well-off and live in an expensive moobaan then most of the young adults and teenagers (including your own! don't think they aren't) will be doing drugs and the police will mostly not interfere (so long as the drug selling and using of drugs stays within the confines of the moobaan). There's obviously plenty of drug-taking at outdoor parties, etc. and mostly the police will turn a blind eye. But you might just get unlucky and end up in a crackdown. And then your life is over!

I'm not saying this because I'm against (recreational) drugs. I think you should be able to buy or sell whatever drug floats your boat, in a safe, controlled, QC (and taxed) market. But you need to face reality.

The problem is when someone is out to get you. it might be a neighbor, it might be your 'friend' (usually another farang), it might be your wife's jealous lover. If you are in the same room or vehicle as a person who is busted with drugs then you are assumed guilty and - worse - you will get the maximum sentence (10/20 years!), while a Thai person will probably get a year or two, and maybe even be out on probation in a few months.

7a. Do not sell or deliver drugs. It's just not worth it. You'll probably get caught and it'll most likely be because you're being done by the dealer.

Thailand (and most of SE Asia) is not the place if you enjoy taking drugs. Go to Europe for that, it's more or less legal there (in practice, the police don't really want to waste their time on drug enforcement and you'll usually get a warning or a suspended sentence or similar).

There's plenty more rules. These are probably the essential ones. Please reply if you can think of more and I'll include them in the book.

8. Live like the scared little man you really were before you came to Thailand and never leave your condo except by the balcony.

8a. Be afraid of your own shadow.

[stickylies]

The Thais are a patient lot.

One of the virtues of Buddhism...

[bhatmasterson]

so super over weight Ian could not see this coming?

sorry to say, just look at the body language and expression on this wife's face in all the photos.

in the first 30 seconds you hear him say "... I was looking for a place with rule of law..."

are you completely clueless? everything in this video is what I found on google seven years ago on the first day researching Thailand. He must have never done a moments research.

I am sure Ian has a big heart, loved his wife and is a good and trusting person.

But you must have a healthy dose of paranoia to survive in Thailand.

Don't get married! Don't "buy" land. Assume nothing.

With all due respect, I really don't think his weight had anything to do with him being swindled.

So, you've been around Thailand 7 years and have done your research. I hope you didn't miss anything. Keep living. Time will tell.

[Briggsy]

Many posters on this thread seem to think this was the wife's plot.

However, it appears the real fraudsters are a network involving a money lender, a "lawyer", Land Office officials and police.

[RapidMethod]

I feel conflicted about this. Part of me feels very sorry and a lot of pity for these two men and a hope that they will get a result. The other part thinks that it was so silly throw all your chips in when living in a corrupt mecca like Phuket and dealing in property. Ultimately it's the kids that suffer the most, mum in jail and dad has pee'd a load of money against the wall.

The cops, courts, army, politicians won't help you. You saw them all in the video, palming off responsibility "it's not my job". They don't give a rats behind as long as they get their piece of the pie.

I also feel angry and pity for these men. But what struck me most is how naive they seemed. They've lived here for how many years? They're surely aware of the endemic corruption and lawlessness that pervades Thailand, particularly in Phuket!? And then, after all this time and despite having several Thai children, they still cannot communicate in Thai.

It's virtually impossible to make complaints or go to court or try to get redress in any way unless you are relatively fluent in Thai. I know it's difficult to learn Thai - it's one of the primary reasons why I devised my Rapid Method... as a way to gradually become fluent in Thai over several years with minimal effort. But it's like growing a tree, you have to plant it immediately - and if you haven't done so yet then start now!

One of the attractions of living in Thailand is it's relative lawlessness compared to many Western countries. You can do more or less what you like and (so long as you are discreet about it) you won't be hassled by the authorities. But that also means that you cannot expect the law or the politicians to step in and sort out your problems either. And it means that you have to watch your own back too, because whoever is out to get you can more or less do so with impunity. It's gangster land.

I think it's important that these issues are raised in a very public way so that foreigners know what to expect. Well done to the BBC for doing so. It probably won't change anything, but one hopes that this kind of public exposure would encourage the Thai lords to try to stamp out this kind of fraud.

The problem is that you're dealing with a childlike yet sophisticated network of fraudsters, at all levels - Thai friends, neighbors, extended family members, jealous lovers, lawyers, etc. (some of the expats like yourself!) - who will greedily take you for whatever they can, and in such a transparent way because they know you are powerless to do anything about it (not knowing Thai, you are usually totally unaware of what's happening under your nose anyway) and also because they know they can do it with impunity.

[tassieman]

"Be worth more alive than dead." Seems to be good advice lol.

[kinmaew]

Further reinforces my resolve to never invest a single cent in that country. My property and investments STAY in my home country and if I ever decide to go back there it will be on a rent-per-month basis and NEVER break my chains from home. It IS the only way to survive there and hold onto your cash. PS Thais are born liars and cheats because in their mind lying and cheating is normal because that is what their elite have done to them all their lives FACT.

[lhvdberg]

Sorry to say something positive but you can get most of your property and/or money back. I have seen it happen to someone I know. But he found the right people to do for him. The first lawyer he found himself with the help of a (later seemed to be corrupted) thai friend. This lawyer made him sign a paper saying he would get 50% of the property, but the value was set by the lawyer to a very low price. When we stepped in and helped him to find some good lawyers; most of the damage was turned down (not all, but that was an acceptable price).

He could proof that the money was coming from his bank account in Holland. And he could also show papers of the 30 year lease etc. The judge gave him back more than he would have had in the first place.

The lawyers told us that it is difficult for the foreigners to win, because most of the time they walk into the corrupted "friends" who will help them to loose more money. And most of the foreigners have no money left so they just run away and leave everything behind.

It took him about 2 years to get all things done. It costed some money but he has most of his money/properties back.

So go find the right lawyers and you do have a chance to win!

[RapidMethod]

8. Live like the scared little man you really were before you came to Thailand and never leave your condo except by the balcony.

8a. Be afraid of your own shadow.

Mudcrab, I think you're being mighty facetious and, yes, maybe it's funny.

You can live a really full and frankly quite hedonistic, depraved and carefree life in Thailand so long as you avoid being 1. stupid 2. aggressive. 3. naive. 4 an <deleted>.

[metisdead]

If your post has been removed, it could be because of this:

8) You will not post disruptive or inflammatory messages, vulgarities, obscenities or profanities.