'Defrauded by my wife and criminals in Thailand' - BBC special report

[thaibeachlovers]

I watched the VDO and after the bit where he's been in Thailand 15 years, I spent the rest of it saying "you stupid man" to the screen every time he came on.

How does a guy that naïve get to earn a million quid anyway?

[Thaidream]

The age difference is not significant and has absolutely nothing to do with anything in this case or any other case. The rules presented are nonsense and mean nothing. Most of you have no real knowledge of relationships; how Thais think and react and how they view Westerners. I feel sorry for most of you . You are trapped in a life of lies and paranoia.It's no wonder you can't find a real relationship in Thailand or anywhere else.

[thaibeachlovers]

The age difference is not significant and has absolutely nothing to do with anything in this case or any other case. The rules presented are nonsense and mean nothing. Most of you have no real knowledge of relationships; how Thais think and react and how they view Westerners. I feel sorry for most of you . You are trapped in a life of lies and paranoia.It's no wonder you can't find a real relationship in Thailand or anywhere else.

Hmmmmm. I consider my marriage to be a real relationship, but I would never ever buy property in LOS.

[Cypress Hill]

So your basing a successful marriage on age and body weight? Interesting considering the top 10 countries with the highest rate of divorce are all European except USA and Cuba. Maybe I miss understood and your implying that women that marry older men with large waistlines are dishonest?

Maybe the truth is that because Thailand has weak law enforcement and endemic corruption people can get away with fraud easily.

Lets face it we don't see things like this happening in our countries of origin because developed countries have effective police forces and reasonably honest courts. Its not that western people are moral and don't have a selfish bone in their bodies.

It certainly has nothing to do with age or waistline differences of married couples.

He's not basing a marriage on body weight.

He's suggesting that a young, good-looking slim woman is hardly going to fall genuinely in love with an old foreigner, 3 times her weight, twice her age and who doesn't speak her language.

Do you think slim, petite women actually ENJOY sex with fat old men?

Don't you think it's far more likely that they fake enjoyment to make sure the money keeps flowing?

Really Normal - young guys on the way to Thailand.

Oh give it up, mate.

A 60 year old farang looking like that and with even modest finances would be in the West cleaning up with younger women.

He would be here fishing in the same waters as you lot.

[blazes]

From a human point of view, you have to feel sorry for the guy. But my sympathy tends to dissipate when I imagine the motive of greed involved here. A lot of people here probably think that "investing' in property is a perfectly sensible activity, but (quite apart from the silliness of doing it in Thailand), you have to wonder whether he is no different from all those people in the West that get drawn into ponzi schemes and are cleaned out in the process.

Bernard Madoff's victims spring to mind, but it happens regularly on a smaller scale.

If, as many here have observed, he had simply left his money in a UK bank, even in a savings account, he would now be sitting pretty. But he thought he was going to make a mint out of real estate investment. No better than all those people in UK who 'buy to rent' ......no need to go on.

[ggt]

Where are the Thai apologists? Drawing a parallel to living in the US, England and Australia...trying to divert attention to the obvious overwhelming corruption condoned at every level in this country...

Everyone knows that Thai women sell their bodies for financial security and the general welfare of their extended families...not all are scammers.

Glad to see at least one of the female criminals will spend some time in the slammer...

[peterb17]

The sad thing is he does seem a decent man- lots of unpleasant comments about his weight- wow go to New York or London!

Saw the clip on the BBC news app this morning- it's all over Facebook now- with a bit of luck and lots of publicity- social media could help. Thailand does not like anything negative- they cannot censure foreign media.

Jonathan Head ( who I am not so keen on ) was correct pointing out that you cannot own land.

I rent a house and own a condo - which is fine.

The whole idea that you can ' buy' a house is just nonsense - the Government could pull the rug under all those company schemes at any moment. Then we have the wonderful 30 yr lease system- again very dubious .

All this has been dreamt up by the property developers. You constantly see ads to buy houses- some are very pleasant with pools etc- at a price probably a third of UK prices which are bonkers. ( my tiny flat in London is nearing a £million)

Owning a home is in the British psyche - so you can see why he did it ( not sure why he had land and other properties)

So all you smug told you so types- spare a thought for this chap and his kids.

PS sometimes it's quite handy to be a friend of Dorothy and don't get embroiled in all this stuff.

[sabaii69]

Sing along with me 'If you want to be happy for the rest of your life don't make a pretty woman your wife....' youtube.com

[theguyfromanotherforum]

The age difference is not significant and has absolutely nothing to do with anything in this case or any other case. The rules presented are nonsense and mean nothing. Most of you have no real knowledge of relationships; how Thais think and react and how they view Westerners. I feel sorry for most of you . You are trapped in a life of lies and paranoia.It's no wonder you can't find a real relationship in Thailand or anywhere else.

I am in a "real" relationship.

I don't know how Thais think nor do I care.

Most Thai couples I see are with the partners their own age. The very few times I see an older Thai guy with a girl that's 20 years younger is when it's obvious that it's his Mia noi. This is clearly visible by the way she dresses. But, of course the obese old Farang is different. Keep lying to yourself.

[tomacht8]

. PS Thais are born liars and cheats because in their mind lying and cheating is normal because that is what their elite have done to them all their lives FACT.

So why are you here.......?

Or are you another one of those who have never lived here but know it all...

Er, I actually agree with him.

My wife often has employees stealing from her and they deny it at all costs even though I have irrefutable proof they lie and steal.

I trust my wife without reservation but I don't trust any other Thai...that's her family included. They don't need my money, they have enough.

Hence, as I posted recently, 2.5% is all I have here and I live off my wife's THB.

I don't trust any Farang here either which is probably why I don't have any friends haha.

Thais are ......

These is undifferentiated generalization

My wife ....

This is an isolated case and can also not be transferred to the whole, or be generalized.

I feel pity for people who have obviously never meet or get to know honest Thais in their lives.

[Thaidream]

If you can't trust your wife to buy property, how really strong is the relationship? Think about it.

[micmichd]

I watched the VDO and after the bit where he's been in Thailand 15 years, I spent the rest of it saying "you stupid man" to the screen every time he came on.

How does a guy that naïve get to earn a million quid anyway?

Heritage?

[fitnesspm]

West = 100% chance of losing everything

Thailand = never buy property or marry a bar girl = you should be fine

I prefer to take my chance with a Thai woman, any day of the week. At least the women act like women and aren't broken like women I'm the west!

[MaeJoMTB]

Sounds high, but i live here 9 month every year, so i have good control.

But this 50% are well diversified.

I own condo, cars, motorbikes, bank accounts and an thai equity portfolio in my name.

We have 3 businesses, a resort and valuable land on an island.

Landowners are my wife and children.

I am secure in 30-year lease and loan contracts.

2 Business are in my name.

If my wife kicks me out tomorrow morning, I have access to 50% of our Thai assets.

The other half belongs to her and the children, and it is well deserved.

What if you fall off a balcony tomorrow morning?

[BenCrew]

So he loses a shit load of money, advises people not to retire here, then re-marries!

[Thaidream]

If you don't know how Thais think nor do you care- you are like the rest- fooling only yourself. Another one in denial.

[theguyfromanotherforum]

West = 100% chance of losing everything

Thailand = never buy property or marry a bar girl = you should be fine

I prefer to take my chance I'm Thailand, any day of the week. At least the women act like women and aren't broken like women I'm the west!

There are plenty of Thai women that are honest, some of them are even successful business women that don't need farang money. The problem is they don't scream hundsum man when they see you and for the most part are not too outgoing or attractive. Also they don't live in Pattaya.

[dontoearth]

Yeah..

And here is a big "boo" to all those tv members who insist that thai law will divide property fairly, when things go astray. Your moeny is gone to debts to money lenders without your knowledge. Even this guy thought he was safe, but his wife simply forged his name and he was taken off as a "director/share holder"...etc.

If you have a wife like this, she has moneylenders that will sap off the equity. If you have legal "rights", good luck in the long, tedious process of court hearings/adjournments and translators. A bad wife with debts to money lenders will allow them to suck you dry..without you knowing anything...until it is too late.

rent...for goodness sakes, and avoid this altogether. If you die, leave the money you save by not purchasing property to your family...they can buy a home on their own.

People pushing property here on TV are part of the problem. Legal recourse........lol (no such animal)

In the THIS HAPPENS HERE DEPARTMENT, you would not believe the number of USA marriages where the wife or husband has run up big credit card bills before a final break-up and divorce. The house and cars gone and years of debt ahead! Of course here the money lenders are not faceless they are Bank of America, Chase Manhattan etc. And you will get to go to court where the judge will tell you the rule of law is you pay equally OR MORE with the deadbeat wife or husband! This guy would not have ended up much better off in the USA.

[thaibeachlovers]

The sad thing is he does seem a decent man- lots of unpleasant comments about his weight- wow go to New York or London!

Saw the clip on the BBC news app this morning- it's all over Facebook now- with a bit of luck and lots of publicity- social media could help. Thailand does not like anything negative- they cannot censure foreign media.

Jonathan Head ( who I am not so keen on ) was correct pointing out that you cannot own land.

I rent a house and own a condo - which is fine.

The whole idea that you can ' buy' a house is just nonsense - the Government could pull the rug under all those company schemes at any moment. Then we have the wonderful 30 yr lease system- again very dubious .

All this has been dreamt up by the property developers. You constantly see ads to buy houses- some are very pleasant with pools etc- at a price probably a third of UK prices which are bonkers. ( my tiny flat in London is nearing a £million)

Owning a home is in the British psyche - so you can see why he did it ( not sure why he had land and other properties)

So all you smug told you so types- spare a thought for this chap and his kids.

PS sometimes it's quite handy to be a friend of Dorothy and don't get embroiled in all this stuff.

Nothing to do with being smug. It's not like the guy just moved to Thailand. 15 years and didn't know!!!!!!!!!

Perhaps he should have been thinking about his children when he left himself open to being defrauded, and done something about it.

Just keep repeating to yourself "I can not own land in Thailand", "I can not own land in Thailand", "I can not own land in Thailand".

[tomacht8]

Sounds high, but i live here 9 month every year, so i have good control.

But this 50% are well diversified.

I own condo, cars, motorbikes, bank accounts and an thai equity portfolio in my name.

We have 3 businesses, a resort and valuable land on an island.

Landowners are my wife and children.

I am secure in 30-year lease and loan contracts.

2 Business are in my name.

If my wife kicks me out tomorrow morning, I have access to 50% of our Thai assets.

The other half belongs to her and the children, and it is well deserved.

What if you fall off a balcony tomorrow morning?

Why should I fall from a balcony?

If you deal with such fears, you should consult a psychiatrist.

[Thaidream]

Reading over the attitudes toward Thai people and especially women that are presented and described on this board- it is no wonder that so many Westerners are lied to, cheated on and eventually divorced. I would suggest that you should never have any relationship with any Thai- it is doomed from the beginning.It's no wonder Thai people think Westerners are crazy.

[stickylies]

Stock up on nonperishable food and drinking water. Have at least one month's supply of each on hand at all times, replenish as needed.

? LOL! Can we meet in real life one day? You are the utmost nutter I have met sofar on TVF.

https://www.youtube.com/embed/OcHNYenN7OY

[peterb17]

The sad thing is he does seem a decent man- lots of unpleasant comments about his weight- wow go to New York or London!

Saw the clip on the BBC news app this morning- it's all over Facebook now- with a bit of luck and lots of publicity- social media could help. Thailand does not like anything negative- they cannot censure foreign media.

Jonathan Head ( who I am not so keen on ) was correct pointing out that you cannot own land.

I rent a house and own a condo - which is fine.

The whole idea that you can ' buy' a house is just nonsense - the Government could pull the rug under all those company schemes at any moment. Then we have the wonderful 30 yr lease system- again very dubious .

All this has been dreamt up by the property developers. You constantly see ads to buy houses- some are very pleasant with pools etc- at a price probably a third of UK prices which are bonkers. ( my tiny flat in London is nearing a £million)

Owning a home is in the British psyche - so you can see why he did it ( not sure why he had land and other properties)

So all you smug told you so types- spare a thought for this chap and his kids.

PS sometimes it's quite handy to be a friend of Dorothy and don't get embroiled in all this stuff.

Nothing to do with being smug. It's not like the guy just moved to Thailand. 15 years and didn't know!!!!!!!!!

Perhaps he should have been thinking about his children when he left himself open to being defrauded, and done something about it.

Just keep repeating to yourself "I can not own land in Thailand", "I can not own land in Thailand", "I can not own land in Thailand".

Have a bit of humanity

[jadee]

Whilst watching the video, the movie 'Pain and Gain' came to mind. It's based on the true story of a gang on Miami bodybuilders who kidnapped, tortured and stole everything from a businessman. In that case, the FBI prosecuted the crooked lawyer who notarized the documents. By way of comparison, in this video about Thailand, you see a BBC reporter filming the Thai lawyer who notarized the documents and this is 5 years after the crime - the lawyer is still working! As if that's not bad enough, the victim Ian has made 40-50 trips to Phuket and spends up to 30,000 baht per day on a translator - that's terrible. He's wasting so much time and money and is still no nearer to justice. He should try crowdfunding and get enough to hire a decent lawyer who may be able to help.

[NCC1701A]

West = 100% chance of losing everything

Thailand = never buy property or marry a bar girl = you should be fine

on money

I prefer to take my chance with a Thai woman, any day of the week. At least the women act like women and aren't broken like women I'm the west!

i hear you brother. at least when you realize Thais base their relationships on money first then love you are half way home.

i was talking to a Thai lady, good English skills, but in a few minutes I realized she was really neurotic, crying, unhappy. just like women in Los Angeles. And then she said "I lived in the UK for 10 years..." she is damaged now...

[thaibeachlovers]

If you can't trust your wife to buy property, how really strong is the relationship? Think about it.

Regardless of how I feel about my wife, I KNOW that her family comes before me. If I gave her money to buy property and her sister needed the money really badly, no contest.

I knew that before I married her, so that's not a problem, it'd be my stupidity if I allowed that to happen.

[harleyclarkey]

I personally know Ian Rance and Colin Vard and have an intimate knowledge of the whole sorry mess.

The core issue here is not age, size, or whether they should have seen the end result. Good on you clever street wise guys here with crystal balls....it's about all the balls you have.

It is simply about fraud and the collusion of the authorities that are meant to protect you. The cheating, corrupt, scheming authorities. Did you see the "lawyer" who witnessed a signature without the signatory being present. How obscene is this? The Phuket lawyers for Colin who actually forged his signature. The removal of vital evidence by the police....their absolute refusal to allow police reports against their fellow officers and fellow cheats. The lawyer, paid an absolute fortune, who didn't manage to get a single property back....yet alone a stick of furniture. The dissolution of a property company without the main directors knowledge yet alone his consent.

The extent of the fraud and the number of those who colluded is very frightening indeed. The money we are talking about here extends to well over 2 million, yes million, euro. They were both robbed of their properties and it is accepted that the signatories on many documents have been forged. So why are the transactions not put aside by a court, reversed and the properties returned to their rightful owners???

The main issue for me is that not one single person or agency in Phuket or Bangkok said ...stop! This is wrong and needs to be put right. Not a single agency gave any real and genuine help. Note the police chief on the BBC programme who promised help and 4 months later he hasn't lifted a finger. My congratulations to Jonathan Head and the BBC for running this. However the programme concentrated mainly on Ian and Colins story is perhaps more horrifying.

Have you any idea of what it is like to travel to Phuket 50 times to have your case adjourned again, and again and again for no logical reason other than to wear you down with the defendants hoping that you run out of money. The chief justice on Phuket is on record as saying cases must not be adjourned many times and must be heard. Useless....another sheep with no teeth. This is Thai "justice". Have you ever being in a court where the defendant is allowed four pages of evidence to be admitted when Colin is refused a single word? Why did the judge allow, in yet another case, verbal testimony from the defendants and refuse, absolutely refuse, to hear a single word from the plaintiff, Colin.

Both partners are serving jail terms for fraud....in Colins case his partner is serving 17 years. The Phuket judge in the criminal case (seemingly about the only one competent to rule over a case) stated it was fraud that was perpetrated on Colin. In any country in the world the burden of proof in a criminal case is higher than that for a civil case. You would therefore imagine, and perhaps take for granted, that any civil action afterwards would be a formality. It has been anything but for both there victims of appalling crimes.

Shame on you Thailand and all of those who refuse to help and are in a position to do so. Very very few of you uncaring idiots here with little to offer, other than pathetic suggestions and criticism, would have the brains and stamina and courage have stood up to these vile criminals for 5 years now.

[peterb17]

I personally know Ian Rance and Colin Vard and have an intimate knowledge of the whole sorry mess.

The core issue here is not age, size, or whether they should have seen the end result. Good on you clever street wise guys here with crystal balls....it's about all the balls you have.

It is simply about fraud and the collusion of the authorities that are meant to protect you. The cheating, corrupt, scheming authorities. Did you see the "lawyer" who witnessed a signature without the signatory being present. How obscene is this? The Phuket lawyers for Colin who actually forged his signature. The removal of vital evidence by the police....their absolute refusal to allow police reports against their fellow officers and fellow cheats. The lawyer, paid an absolute fortune, who didn't manage to get a single property back....yet alone a stick of furniture. The dissolution of a property company without the main directors knowledge yet alone his consent.

The extent of the fraud and the number of those who colluded is very frightening indeed. The money we are talking about here extends to well over 2 million, yes million, euro. They were both robbed of their properties and it is accepted that the signatories on many documents have been forged. So why are the transactions not put aside by a court, reversed and the properties returned to their rightful owners???

The main issue for me is that not one single person or agency in Phuket or Bangkok said ...stop! This is wrong and needs to be put right. Not a single agency gave any real and genuine help. Note the police chief on the BBC programme who promised help and 4 months later he hasn't lifted a finger. My congratulations to Jonathan Head and the BBC for running this. However the programme concentrated mainly on Ian and Colins story is perhaps more horrifying.

Have you any idea of what it is like to travel to Phuket 50 times to have your case adjourned again, and again and again for no logical reason other than to wear you down with the defendants hoping that you run out of money. The chief justice on Phuket is on record as saying cases must not be adjourned many times and must be heard. Useless....another sheep with no teeth. This is Thai "justice". Have you ever being in a court where the defendant is allowed four pages of evidence to be admitted when Colin is refused a single word? Why did the judge allow, in yet another case, verbal testimony from the defendants and refuse, absolutely refuse, to hear a single word from the plaintiff, Colin.

Both partners are serving jail terms for fraud....in Colins case his partner is serving 17 years. The Phuket judge in the criminal case (seemingly about the only one competent to rule over a case) stated it was fraud that was perpetrated on Colin. In any country in the world the burden of proof in a criminal case is higher than that for a civil case. You would therefore imagine, and perhaps take for granted, that any civil action afterwards would be a formality. It has been anything but for both there victims of appalling crimes.

Shame on you Thailand and all of those who refuse to help and are in a position to do so. Very very few of you uncaring idiots here with little to offer, other than pathetic suggestions and criticism, would have the brains and stamina and courage have stood up to these vile criminals for 5 years now.

Well said.

I'm afraid TVF members are not going to take the slightest bit of notice of your post- they live a world apart from common decency and humanity

[thaibeachlovers]

Whilst watching the video, the movie 'Pain and Gain' came to mind. It's based on the true story of a gang on Miami bodybuilders who kidnapped, tortured and stole everything from a businessman. In that case, the FBI prosecuted the crooked lawyer who notarized the documents. By way of comparison, in this video about Thailand, you see a BBC reporter filming the Thai lawyer who notarized the documents and this is 5 years after the crime - the lawyer is still working! As if that's not bad enough, the victim Ian has made 40-50 trips to Phuket and spends up to 30,000 baht per day on a translator - that's terrible. He's wasting so much time and money and is still no nearer to justice. He should try crowdfunding and get enough to hire a decent lawyer who may be able to help.

It's obvious that he still has money, but he apparently doesn't have the sense to realise he'll never win against the system.

I know it's hard, but till he moves on and cuts his losses, he's just throwing good money after bad.

I too have been defrauded of a great deal of money, by a farang at home that had been a friend for 20 years, so aware of what it's like, but as I know I'd never get anything back, I prefer not to waste my money pursuing the case in court.

[MaeJoMTB]

I personally know Ian Rance and Colin Vard and have an intimate knowledge of the whole sorry mess.

The core issue here is not age, size, or whether they should have seen the end result. Good on you clever street wise guys here with crystal balls....it's about all the balls you have.

Shame on you Thailand and all of those who refuse to help and are in a position to do so. Very very few of you uncaring idiots here with little to offer, other than pathetic suggestions and criticism, would have the brains and stamina and courage have stood up to these vile criminals for 5 years now.

As you know them,

You can tell us how he imagined a 20 year old slim woman could ever love a guy that old and that big?

What was he thinking?

He has now wasted a further 5 years of his life, and large amounts of money, on a hopeless cause.

Not to mention risking his life every time he enters Thailand.

That isn't brave, that's stupid IMHO.