Sexual Harassment In Thailand

[bina]

unfortunately, its the same advice i've given to several (naive) women friends that had divorced and not been in 'the game' for a long time and they ended up in situations at work and after, with these scenarios...

calling the wife is usually a bad bad idea; often, she knows but pretends not too; or, she will threaten u and it will, as someone said, escalate...

just dont leave yourself open to being in this position again...

when u do go out, always let a friend know what, where, with whom...

etc etc...

dont flirt with the management if they arent good good friends with u

dont accept special favors if they are only directed at u personally

dont acccept personal gifts if they dont come from the entire work crew

dont work late nights if there arent others (women) doing the same thing

dont let a man (boss/coworker) give u special attention for work that u feel doesnt really deserve the special attention (u know if it was a special job deserving extra praise/bonus whatever)

dont feel flattered when u get praised constantly for changing hair colour/dos/shoes/dresses; take that as a warning sign (praise here and there is fun, though)

dont do what many 'warm fuzzy'women do, and touch a man, even on his arm, to make a point or get him focused; this can be misinterpreted

in israel, work atmospheres are more informal, there is more inuendo, sexy dress allowed, etc... and more touching etc, and more misunderstanding and harrasment that doesnt usually get backed up by coworkers/colleages, leaving the women in the situation describes by one of the posters- portrayed as 'bad' etc... thailand, italy, spain, etc etc all fit the bill for potential sexual harrassment situations that often are caused by cultural misunderstanding but mostly from cultural expectations etc...

the same advice i give my daughter and her girlfriends

be friendly and open but reserve some doubts just in case

bina

[jdinasia]

great advice Bina

[bina]

thank you

u would hope that by the age of 40+ i would have learned something from life, no??

bina

ps. i am now going to print up that list on a piece of paper and make it official Mother lecture #200+...

[mamastar]

I have to agree with guesthouse - revenge is not the best option, especially as it may escalate. Why risk getting hurt just for an instant of gratification? Avoid the guy, should harrassment continue, keep records, phone records and tape the conversation, and hope that being armed with these, you can prevent them from continuing.

As an Asian with a western upbringing, I'm possibly more tolerant of sexual harrassment than the average westerner. As someone who has hung out in bars alot with members of the opposite sex, I've also learnt to be careful - being alone with a male friend can mean just that, or be construed as something totally different. This obviously depends on the guy, but I think it never hurts to keep your eyes open, and to be aware that what you see as innocent could be seen differently by another.

I recall a conversation with some Japanese girls and guys (sorry, not Thai, but bear with me, as it is still Asia) of what being alone in an apartment with someone of the opposite sex means. Either inviting a guy into your room, or agreeing to go into his room. Most agreed that stepping over that threshold suggested willingness to have sex. Now, this would obviously differ depending on generation and culture, but I believe the fact that some people think that shows that you need to be careful, as you can never tell what other people consider as a come-on.

So I must agree, a lesson learnt, though perhaps a hard one.

[Ulysses]

Did he harass you? Or did he merely flirt with you?

Did you tell him (with fire in your eyes and) in a stern voice NO!! STOP IT? TAKE YOUR HANDS OFF ME! I am not that kind of girl!

Or did you in a very shy and demure way push his hands away as though being coy?

Before you claim harassment you have to evaluate the situation you were in very clearly.

For all you know, your actions might have come across as though you were playing a game. In which case he repeatedly tried to touch you. And since you said he did not touch you in any "inappropriate place" then was he "flirting with you" or was he actually "harrassing you".

If this has only happened once, on a boat, how can you make a claim against him? It is no differnet than going to a bar and a man touching your rear as you walk by.

If you call his wife, she will call you a liar.. and most likely when her husband gets through with his story, she will be calling the school and accusing you of trying to sleep with her husband. After all, you agreed to have lunch with a married man on a boat, and did not bring a friend with you.

So.. if you do not have solid proof, and witnesses to more than one event, that was at LEAST on school grounds, it does not sound like you have much of a case at all. At the end of the day, you went with HIM, a married man on a boat. If you think back, when he invited you, did he say "MY WIFE and I would like you to have lunch with us?"

sorry if I sound brutal.

[girlx]

hmmm. i agree with the last poster. i don't mean to sound insensitive, but based on the info you gave here, it does sound a little like a misunderstanding. he does sound a little obsessive, but you agreed to spend the day with him and he just probably took it as your wanting to be with him, so he tried it on, and when you turned him down (hopefully vigorously), he appears to have stopped. he doesn't seem to have threatened you or tried to blackmail you etc. and regardless of whether he is married with kids or not, it doesn't seem like sexual harassment, it just sounds like a thwarted flirtation attempt.

i would just stop any and all contact with him.

calling the wife is usually a bad bad idea; often, she knows but pretends not too; or, she will threaten u and it will, as someone said, escalate...

this is true- i learned the hard way that when you inform the spouse of their partner's bad behavior, they will invariably blame you or think you are lying.

[khall64au]

Change your avatar! You complain of sexual harrassment and look at the image you put across....

[anna234cn]

Thanks all.

I talked to my lawyer friend last night. And I decided to do a plan after my final exams.

Definitely I will give him a lesson through my way. He is just a coward.

As my friends say, this guy is unlucky that he harassed ME.

School has blocked anyone who would like get my info from any school front desks.

And finally he stopped calling me yesterday. I am going to change my number very soon.

[steveromagnino]

Thanks all.

I talked to my lawyer friend last night. And I decided to do a plan after my final exams.

Definitely I will give him a lesson through my way. He is just a coward.

As my friends say, this guy is unlucky that he harassed ME.

School has blocked anyone who would like get my info from any school front desks.

And finally he stopped calling me yesterday. I am going to change my number very soon.

Strangely as a guy and having previously worked in the entertainment industry throughout Asia I am no stranger to sexual harassment from men either. And in levels similar/far beyond to what you have encountered at university, in bathrooms on a weekly basis, at clubs, at work and so on. In a few cases this has been to the point of extremely inappropriate behaviour from senior clients/employers.

There are some cues I must give out to the people doing it that leads them to believe I am both gay and interested in them. In your case, joining someone for lunch as a two can be perceived as a date by some.

This is a bit different though; the person has a family. I strongly urge you NOT to record things and go play them to the wife, at least not at first; in the event that you cause significant damage to that family, you may have both that wife and that horrid man seeking to take major steps against you. Record by all means in case you have to play it, but playing it will have major potential problems for you.

If you are not Thai, then you may not be aware of the major repercussions that some Thai people will go to if they perceive you are 'up in their face'; especially one as unbalanced as this.

I strongly recommend ignoring the calls, ignoring the man, and it will go away. If you feel the need to gain revenge, do it smart; get yourself 6 numbers, give them to friends and call him non stop and harass him by phone. 24 hours per day. Use skype if necessary. Any form of harassment, and you double it and do it back, but keep yourself a step removed. I am sure you can think of something along these lines.

I cannot see that currently you can persue legal action. Therefore, petty childish harassment is best.

In my case I got the last laugh by over charging the people I could, and ignoring the rest. Then again, I know I could smack the cr*p out of most of the people if it got physical which is not always an option with a man harassing a woman.

One of my friends here divorced her cheating husband through collection of vast amounts of evidence that were just too overwhelming for him to do anything about so they settled without the details needing to come out; she now has 50m baht house; probably 50m baht worth of cars, and a ton of cash. He kept his reputation (slightly) intact. Start recording times, messages and so on.

Look forward to hearing a 'fatal attraction story' with treatment producing a best selling film in 2007. On the one hand you want to punish, but on the other hand bear in mind the wife and kids. And yourself.

[sylvafern]

I also agree with most of the posts and think you really need to assess the whole situation before taking it further. Consider the situation you put yourself in carefully .... a university student going on a boat trip with a man old enough to be your father (I don't really get why you were helping him in the first place, to be honest) and (going by your other posts) seem to be quite confident and flirtatious (you're comfortable "flirting" and discussing about how 'well hung' another TV member is in your search for a man in another forum) plus, as you state yourself in your other topic, you're about to be on TV. Perhaps this man was flattered by an apparent interest by a young uni student and just thought it was a date and that you were also coming on to him - it could be that it was just a misinterpretation on both sides. However, in saying that, I definately don't condone his behaviour and if you said stop, then that should hhave been the end of it then and there. Once you told him to stop calling you (I assume you did), then that should have been the end of it. But unless he did do something that seriously affected you, I think you really should weigh up all possible outcomes, including the effect it may have on you personally (is it really worth the time, money and energy to take revenge on this guy?)

[sam518cn]

There is no one would be simple. Any way, i trust you like it ! If you do not like this, could you tell us why you went to the boat with him?

you wanna use your way to teach him? how ?

Be careful! what you did in here represent us.

[bkkmadness]

You're liable to end up in a lot of trouble if you try to take revenge on this man, you realy need to listen to all the posters on here before me that gave such great advice. Guesthouse said it right in his first post, 'chalk it up to experience'.

[fruittbatt]

No one, man or woman, should have to tolerate sexual harrassment. In this case I agree with other wise and experienced posters that you have nothing to gain by pursuing the matter, except possibly further unpleasant consequences and a lot of personal angst.

No one is going to back your claim, and it is possible that the old guy will do something in revenge to save face against your accusations.

I also agree with Khall and Sylvafern who have pointed out that your avatar and your flirtatious banter in this forum send clear messages of sexual availability and willingness to play. If you want to be considered with respect and dignity and not as a plaything, I suggest you think carefully about who you really want to be and adopt an image which fits with your values.

[Hublet]

As a farang female having lived in Thailand for two years

Ann please for the sake of your own safety take the interest (you call it harrassment) as a compliment, laugh it off and, like Kat said "be glad he stopped when asked" and learn from the experience.

Revenge can be sweet for a second or two but are you really prepared, and do you know really want to start something, to subject yourself to a lot of heart ache and probable embarrassment and loss of job?

I've seen these thing happen before and there is no way a Farang is going to win.

[Hublet]

I'd just like to add that sexual harrassment is only harrassment if you choose to think that way.

I take great pride and am happy if some guy thinks I'm nice enough to wolf wistle or more. I am no stuner and I don't flaunt my body in skimpy clothes or use special body language but I do take pride in being and looking like a woman. Feminism is for those who have a very low self esteem.

This is of course only my opinion

[nonthaburial]

It appears that this lady is probably Chinese, the guy also seems to be of the same race, so if true, we are talking Chinese culture here, but difficult to come to a correct judgement when the OP uses such a provocitive avitar and acts in such a vindictive manner.

Doesnt want to listen to advice and insists on revenge. Recipe for trouble big time

[Boo]

Feminism is for those who have a very low self esteem.

Feminism is the belief that women should be allowed the same rights, power and opportunities as men and be treated in the same way. Get a dictionary!

[fruittbatt]

I'd just like to add that sexual harrassment is only harrassment if you choose to think that way.

I take great pride and am happy if some guy thinks I'm nice enough to wolf wistle or more. I am no stuner and I don't flaunt my body in skimpy clothes or use special body language but I do take pride in being and looking like a woman. Feminism is for those who have a very low self esteem.

This is of course only my opinion

Hublet,

Certainly male appreciation is gratifying to most women, but there is definitely a line between true appreciation of a woman's physical beauty or personality/character/mind or whatever and unwanted harassment.

When a guy pinches your butt or rubs against you on a bus or touches you intimately without invitation or encouragement: that is sexual harassment, plain and simple. This is what Anna is angry about. She has a right to stand up for herself in this situation, but legally she doesn't stand a snowflake's chance in he_ll.

I would be interested to know what you mean by "feminism" and why you think that it is only for women with "low self-esteem"........ I don't think feminism these days is about hairy armpits and butch haircuts...but I do think it has a lot to do with knowing who you are and what you value, what your rights are and what you will never allow another person to do to you.

Edited October 19, 2006 by fruittbatt

[Boo]

Hublet

As a farang female having lived in Thailand for two years

I am surprised you can get your internet in thailand hublet (Bill?) as I didn't know Australian service providers stretched their wireless this far?

hublet ip: XXXXX - dsl.connect.net.au

[Insight]

^ She could of missed off the word "previously" there Boo.

[Boo]

anything is possible but then again.....

[bkkmadness]

I kind of read it as a 'previously' lived in Thailand too.

Tons of good advice on here, the OP is foolish if she doesn't take it. I realise it may have upset her, but you have no power to revenge this guy. You say you have told the school not to give up your home records? That's easily got round, a little money here, a word or two there. You say you wish to call the wife? Well she may decide that you are a threat to her marraige and family and cause problems for you also.

To be fair you took a boat trip'lunch meeting/date with a married man, he tried it on and stopped when told to. Now the fact that he continued to harass shows what an ###### he is, but thankfully nothing seripous happened. And it easily could have, and again you may not be able to do anything about it depending on the position/power/financial status of the guy.

You need to look on the bright side and be glad you got away as you did, you need to remember this as a lesson and not be so naive next time, and you need to forget any ideas of revenge for your own safety. As GH said, escalating this situation is something you may not want to deal with once it's all in motion.

Listen to the other posters here, there's not a disgreement between us as to how you should handle this situation and we do have the advantage of being able to view this situation without emotion ruining our judgement.

[Boo]

IMO it isn't fair of those who have critisised her avatar. Thats no indication of the op's true personality.

I don't though, agree with her idea of revenge. She wasnt "hurt" and learned a valuble lesson. But hunting out revenge can possible come & bite her back eventually.

And, yes, could be read as "previously" but I can't belive that any women would refer to belief in feminism as low self esteem, esp one who needs validation from strangers on "her" looks by being pleased over wolf whistles. Nah, something stinks.

[GuestHouse]

IMO it isn't fair of those who have critisised her avatar. Thats no indication of the op's true personality.

I hope you'll accept that my Avtar is exactly what I'm like.

[bkkmadness]

IMO it isn't fair of those who have critisised her avatar. Thats no indication of the op's true personality.

I don't though, agree with her idea of revenge. She wasnt "hurt" and learned a valuble lesson. But hunting out revenge can possible come & bite her back eventually.

And, yes, could be read as "previously" but I can't belive that any women would refer to belief in feminism as low self esteem, esp one who needs validation from strangers on "her" looks by being pleased over wolf whistles. Nah, something stinks.

I agree, the avatar issue is stupid, it's an avatar on an anonymous internet forum, if she was looking like that on the boat, ok then maybe there's a point there.

Feminism and low self esteem, doesn't compute to me. But then I was told by someone that ladies that have sex purely for pleasure lack self esteem so who knows?

Wolf whistles, well some women like them I suppose.

ok, ok, I admit, stinks of a troll but benefit of the doubt and all that.

[fruittbatt]

IMO it isn't fair of those who have critisised her avatar. Thats no indication of the op's true personality.

I don't though, agree with her idea of revenge. She wasnt "hurt" and learned a valuble lesson. But hunting out revenge can possible come & bite her back eventually.

And, yes, could be read as "previously" but I can't belive that any women would refer to belief in feminism as low self esteem, esp one who needs validation from strangers on "her" looks by being pleased over wolf whistles. Nah, something stinks.

Boo,

I agree that an avatar is not an indication of "personality". But when that avatar shows only a woman's f*nny then it is in the same genre as girlie mags which portray women as isolated sexually titillating body bits rather than as real, whole, equal people. When a woman claims sexual harassment but advertises her f*nny, there is serious dissonance in her thinking process IMHO.

[anna234cn]

Nothing is wrong with my avatar. I like it coz I like to look at sexy women. Attention, guys! Do you judge a girl who is bad or not based on her clothing? Bikini is just a special clothing to show girl's body in another way. When you see a girl wearing bikini in swimming pool, do you think she is a bad girl? CONFIDENT GIRLS WEAR BIKIN! Everyone chooses his/her avatar according to his/her interests. I chose this avatar not coz I wanna flirt with guys here or find some fun.

I have a very strong personality and my own principles. I am a very cold person. I dont flirt with a guy easily. I am not that stupid to flirt with a married, old and ugly man. Is it necessray or do I have that kinda special need? NO.

I will never ever accpet what that guy has done to me.

I talked with his wife already. That's all. It's not a revenge. It was just a talk between a woman and a woman. We were talking about TRUST. His wife has much better education than that guy.

One more thing, I wanna mention is pretty girls have more bad experiences on harassment. I have learnt a lot since I came to Thailand. I definitely know how to protect myself. It was an accident this time. It was a shock to me also coz I just protected myself from those bad young guys. Now I know, I should protect myself from every guy except my Dad.

Being honest, I dont like here you guys' thoughts. You were just trying to judge how bad this girl was. This is not what a girl who got hurt needs. Think about it!

[bkkmadness]

When a woman claims sexual harassment but advertises her f*nny, there is serious dissonance in her thinking process IMHO.

She has an avatar on a weboard, I don't expect she has this picture available for her 'harasser' to see. It's a sexy pic fair enough, that's a side of her personality she wishs to show here maybe. If she was getting lots of lude comments from posters here because of the avatar then I would agree the avatar would probably have to go if she were to complain about it and be taken seriously, but this webboard and her real life situation are two different things.

[guardian]

I chose this avatar not coz I wanna flirt with guys here or find some fun.

I have a very strong personality and my own principles. I am a very cold person. I dont flirt with a guy easily. I am not that stupid to flirt with a married, old and ugly man. Is it necessray or do I have that kinda special need? NO.

Looking For A Guy. Hehe

[fruittbatt]

Anna,

what happened to you was bad. The guy took advantage of the situation. You have a right to be angry. But, in order to protect yourself in future you need to understand how other people can interpret your behaviour....not just how you see yourself.

I can understand that for a Chinese or Thai girl wearing a bikini could be seen as "brave" or "confident". In the West, people don't think twice about it ...it's quite normal. Women even wear bikini tops or no tops to the supermarket in some countries. People often don't wear any clothes on the beach and that's OK.

But to hetero guys, the sight of a shapely woman in a bikini is always a big turn on, and when a woman puts a bikini bottom on her avatar, guys will very likely think it is the way she wants to "advertise" herself. And women will think the same way...as I did.

The solution is not to be scared of men or to be cold to them, but to understand never to put yourself in dangerous situations. You were a little naive in your decision to go in the boat ...learn from the mistake and good luck with your studies!