Scuba Diving in Chiang Mai

[Rimkok]

Has anybody scuba dived in Chiang Mai or the surrounding area?

Does anybody know of any potential dive sites and places to get equipment/tanks.

In my case this would be just for fun but does anybody see a potential business opportunity here?

[daoyai]

business opportunity? maybe diving for golf balls in water features at a golf course.

[FolkGuitar]

The coral reef in the Moat took an awful hit last year from Crown of Thorns starfish, to say nothing of the viz... But the two WW II shipwrecks in the canal are both at Nitrox depths, and the cavern near them is worth exploring if you have 'Overhead' certification.

[spoiler: There is no 'real' diving in Chiang Mai.]

Edited September 21, 2015 by FolkGuitar

[canuckamuck]

The coral reef in the Moat took an awful hit last year from Crown of Thorns starfish, to say nothing of the viz... But the two WW II shipwrecks in the canal are both at Nitrox depths, and the cavern near them is worth exploring if you have 'Overhead' certification.

[spoiler: There is no 'real' diving in Chiang Mai.]

I think you misspelled VW wrecks, And I noticed last week there was also a Honda wreck to explore on the west side.

[MESmith]

Come the dry season, the reservoirs wont be fit for paddling in, nevermind scuba diving

[masuk]

A few try each year, but they take their cars with them.

[sappersrest]

If there are any suitably qualified diving instructors I think there maybe an opportunity for basic instruction say in a local pool , then a trip down to the coast to compete the training,I would be interested in something like that.

[northernjohn]

A few try each year, but they take their cars with them.

Now that is painfully true. At the same time funny as hell.

[STUDMEYER]

Hijacked: Anyone here into free diving? Looking for people to practice dynamic and static apnea in a pool.

Rgs

SM

[Rimkok]

If there are any suitably qualified diving instructors I think there maybe an opportunity for basic instruction say in a local pool , then a trip down to the coast to compete the training,I would be interested in something like that.

Yes I was thinking along the same lines as you also. Possibly do the theory and pool sessions of a PADI open water course here before a trip down to the coast if there were no suitable dive sites in Chiang Mai. Having said that I bet there would be a suitable dive site within a 20 to 30 mile radius of Chiang Mai, it is just finding it and getting permission to dive there.

Come on budding entrepreneurs!!!!

[chingmai331]

When swimming at the 700 year pool one day, i saw many scuba people in the diving well. Obviously taking instruction so check around there for more info.

[FolkGuitar]

If there are any suitably qualified diving instructors I think there maybe an opportunity for basic instruction say in a local pool , then a trip down to the coast to compete the training,I would be interested in something like that.

Yes I was thinking along the same lines as you also. Possibly do the theory and pool sessions of a PADI open water course here before a trip down to the coast if there were no suitable dive sites in Chiang Mai. Having said that I bet there would be a suitable dive site within a 20 to 30 mile radius of Chiang Mai, it is just finding it and getting permission to dive there.

Come on budding entrepreneurs!!!!

There are many veteran divers in Chiang Mai, and this thread comes up at least once or twice a year. To date, no one has found anything worth diving anywhere around the northern part of the Kingdom. The closest 'fair' diving can be found around Koh Tao, and the closest 'good' diving (if you don't mind a crowded dive site) would be a live-aboard out of Phuket diving the Andaman Islands or the Burma Banks.

But as far as getting your certification, taking a PADI course while on Koh Tao is a very workable idea. Some of the dive shops are associated with hotels and offer free accommodations while taking the course. As the basic "Open Water Diver" certification is only a three-day course now, and you are spending all but the first morning underwater while learning, it's a lot more enjoyable than doing most of the course in a swimming pool. The first day and half of the second is done in 'Confined water,' and having that in the same water you will be diving makes for an easy transition. If you take the class in a swimming pool in Chiang Mai, you will still need to complete the course in open water somewhere later on, in order to be tested for open water skills. I worked as a Divemaster on Koh Tao back in the early '90's and will say that without a doubt, it's a MUCH better experience than doing it in a swimming pool, and can easily fit into the time schedule of a short vacation at the beach. If you give yourself another two days, you can continue with your "Advanced Open Water" certification, which will give you a LOT more experience and several very valuable scuba diving skills, giving you training in Deep Water diving, Night Diving, Underwater Navigation, etc., etc.

[canuckamuck]

By all means get your scuba certificate, but skip Koh Tao if you have a conscience.

[FolkGuitar]

By all means get your scuba certificate, but skip Koh Tao if you have a conscience.

Do you mean that all the residents of the island should be made to suffer for the sins of one or two? One or two who may or may not have even been a resident or even a Thai?

Following that logic, we should avoid Chiang Mai, avoid Bangkok, avoid Paris, avoid Toronto, avoid NY, avoid Sidney, avoid London, ....

[Rimkok]

If there are any suitably qualified diving instructors I think there maybe an opportunity for basic instruction say in a local pool , then a trip down to the coast to compete the training,I would be interested in something like that.

Yes I was thinking along the same lines as you also. Possibly do the theory and pool sessions of a PADI open water course here before a trip down to the coast if there were no suitable dive sites in Chiang Mai. Having said that I bet there would be a suitable dive site within a 20 to 30 mile radius of Chiang Mai, it is just finding it and getting permission to dive there.

Come on budding entrepreneurs!!!!

There are many veteran divers in Chiang Mai, and this thread comes up at least once or twice a year. To date, no one has found anything worth diving anywhere around the northern part of the Kingdom. The closest 'fair' diving can be found around Koh Tao, and the closest 'good' diving (if you don't mind a crowded dive site) would be a live-aboard out of Phuket diving the Andaman Islands or the Burma Banks.

But as far as getting your certification, taking a PADI course while on Koh Tao is a very workable idea. Some of the dive shops are associated with hotels and offer free accommodations while taking the course. As the basic "Open Water Diver" certification is only a three-day course now, and you are spending all but the first morning underwater while learning, it's a lot more enjoyable than doing most of the course in a swimming pool. The first day and half of the second is done in 'Confined water,' and having that in the same water you will be diving makes for an easy transition. If you take the class in a swimming pool in Chiang Mai, you will still need to complete the course in open water somewhere later on, in order to be tested for open water skills. I worked as a Divemaster on Koh Tao back in the early '90's and will say that without a doubt, it's a MUCH better experience than doing it in a swimming pool, and can easily fit into the time schedule of a short vacation at the beach. If you give yourself another two days, you can continue with your "Advanced Open Water" certification, which will give you a LOT more experience and several very valuable scuba diving skills, giving you training in Deep Water diving, Night Diving, Underwater Navigation, etc., etc.

Thanks FolkGuitar. I wasn't aware that the subject had come up so often.

I don't think 3 days is long enough to do the PADI open water course. This means cramming the theory and classroom into one day or doing some theory on the boat going out. I know from experience the dive shops down south rush the whole experience to get the customers through asap. The dive sites around Phuket and Pattaya are dangerous in my opinion. The boats are often crowded everybody is in a rush and it is a free for all getting in and out of the water. Also you have to dodge the dreaded jet skis, speedboats and other dive boats when in the water. Not a great experience and they tend not to get too many repeat customers.

If somebody in Chiang Mai offered the theory and pool sessions in a relaxed and non hurried environment this would at least get the students part of the way there. It is a shame there are no potential dive sites in Chiang Mai.

[canuckamuck]

By all means get your scuba certificate, but skip Koh Tao if you have a conscience.

Do you mean that all the residents of the island should be made to suffer for the sins of one or two? One or two who may or may not have even been a resident or even a Thai?

Following that logic, we should avoid Chiang Mai, avoid Bangkok, avoid Paris, avoid Toronto, avoid NY, avoid Sidney, avoid London, ....

Yes to the first part, but to follow the rest of your strawman would be too far off topic.

[sappersrest]

If there are any suitably qualified diving instructors I think there maybe an opportunity for basic instruction say in a local pool , then a trip down to the coast to compete the training,I would be interested in something like that.

Yes I was thinking along the same lines as you also. Possibly do the theory and pool sessions of a PADI open water course here before a trip down to the coast if there were no suitable dive sites in Chiang Mai. Having said that I bet there would be a suitable dive site within a 20 to 30 mile radius of Chiang Mai, it is just finding it and getting permission to dive there.

Come on budding entrepreneurs!!!!

There are many veteran divers in Chiang Mai, and this thread comes up at least once or twice a year. To date, no one has found anything worth diving anywhere around the northern part of the Kingdom. The closest 'fair' diving can be found around Koh Tao, and the closest 'good' diving (if you don't mind a crowded dive site) would be a live-aboard out of Phuket diving the Andaman Islands or the Burma Banks.

But as far as getting your certification, taking a PADI course while on Koh Tao is a very workable idea. Some of the dive shops are associated with hotels and offer free accommodations while taking the course. As the basic "Open Water Diver" certification is only a three-day course now, and you are spending all but the first morning underwater while learning, it's a lot more enjoyable than doing most of the course in a swimming pool. The first day and half of the second is done in 'Confined water,' and having that in the same water you will be diving makes for an easy transition. If you take the class in a swimming pool in Chiang Mai, you will still need to complete the course in open water somewhere later on, in order to be tested for open water skills. I worked as a Divemaster on Koh Tao back in the early '90's and will say that without a doubt, it's a MUCH better experience than doing it in a swimming pool, and can easily fit into the time schedule of a short vacation at the beach. If you give yourself another two days, you can continue with your "Advanced Open Water" certification, which will give you a LOT more experience and several very valuable scuba diving skills, giving you training in Deep Water diving, Night Diving, Underwater Navigation, etc., etc.

Thanks FolkGuitar. I wasn't aware that the subject had come up so often.

I don't think 3 days is long enough to do the PADI open water course. This means cramming the theory and classroom into one day or doing some theory on the boat going out. I know from experience the dive shops down south rush the whole experience to get the customers through asap. The dive sites around Phuket and Pattaya are dangerous in my opinion. The boats are often crowded everybody is in a rush and it is a free for all getting in and out of the water. Also you have to dodge the dreaded jet skis, speedboats and other dive boats when in the water. Not a great experience and they tend not to get too many repeat customers.

If somebody in Chiang Mai offered the theory and pool sessions in a relaxed and non hurried environment this would at least get the students part of the way there. It is a shame there are no potential dive sites in Chiang Mai.

I know a pool in Chiang Mai that would defiantly host such an event.Maybe we could get a dive school to come here in the off season from down the coast if we had enough numbers. loving this thread already.

[FolkGuitar]

If there are any suitably qualified diving instructors I think there maybe an opportunity for basic instruction say in a local pool , then a trip down to the coast to compete the training,I would be interested in something like that.

Yes I was thinking along the same lines as you also. Possibly do the theory and pool sessions of a PADI open water course here before a trip down to the coast if there were no suitable dive sites in Chiang Mai. Having said that I bet there would be a suitable dive site within a 20 to 30 mile radius of Chiang Mai, it is just finding it and getting permission to dive there.

Come on budding entrepreneurs!!!!

There are many veteran divers in Chiang Mai, and this thread comes up at least once or twice a year. To date, no one has found anything worth diving anywhere around the northern part of the Kingdom. The closest 'fair' diving can be found around Koh Tao, and the closest 'good' diving (if you don't mind a crowded dive site) would be a live-aboard out of Phuket diving the Andaman Islands or the Burma Banks.

But as far as getting your certification, taking a PADI course while on Koh Tao is a very workable idea. Some of the dive shops are associated with hotels and offer free accommodations while taking the course. As the basic "Open Water Diver" certification is only a three-day course now, and you are spending all but the first morning underwater while learning, it's a lot more enjoyable than doing most of the course in a swimming pool. The first day and half of the second is done in 'Confined water,' and having that in the same water you will be diving makes for an easy transition. If you take the class in a swimming pool in Chiang Mai, you will still need to complete the course in open water somewhere later on, in order to be tested for open water skills. I worked as a Divemaster on Koh Tao back in the early '90's and will say that without a doubt, it's a MUCH better experience than doing it in a swimming pool, and can easily fit into the time schedule of a short vacation at the beach. If you give yourself another two days, you can continue with your "Advanced Open Water" certification, which will give you a LOT more experience and several very valuable scuba diving skills, giving you training in Deep Water diving, Night Diving, Underwater Navigation, etc., etc.

Thanks FolkGuitar. I wasn't aware that the subject had come up so often.

I don't think 3 days is long enough to do the PADI open water course. This means cramming the theory and classroom into one day or doing some theory on the boat going out. I know from experience the dive shops down south rush the whole experience to get the customers through asap. The dive sites around Phuket and Pattaya are dangerous in my opinion. The boats are often crowded everybody is in a rush and it is a free for all getting in and out of the water. Also you have to dodge the dreaded jet skis, speedboats and other dive boats when in the water. Not a great experience and they tend not to get too many repeat customers.

If somebody in Chiang Mai offered the theory and pool sessions in a relaxed and non hurried environment this would at least get the students part of the way there. It is a shame there are no potential dive sites in Chiang Mai.

Three -four days is the norm for the PADI "Open Water Diver" certification in most resort areas, when givin in 5-Star PADI shops. Three days if you start the night before, four if you start in the morning. You read the chapters for the section, watch the video which repeats everything that you read, then listen to the instructor go over everything a third time with hands-on demonstration. As a Divemaster, I've assisted in over 100 classes, with several hundred students, and I think I can only remember one person who found the work too intensive and needed some extra time. It really is remarkably simple. If you can breath, and you can swim, you can learn to dive. Once you get to the more advance levels, such as "Rescue Diver," and "Divemaster," where the material begins to get a lot more complicated, more time is needed. But for "Open Water" and "Advanced Open Water," these can be done together in five days if desired. Take into consideration that BSAC certification takes much longer as it incorporates more of the Advance Open Water material into its Basic level course, but NAUI and CMAS take about the same.

I'm in full agreement with you, though, that the dive sites around Phuket and Pattaya are really horrible. That's why I didn't suggest them. I suggested Koh Tao or live-aboards 'from Phuket' that dive the Andamen Islands and Burma Banks. Koh Tao itself has over 20 nice dive spots. Its only problem these days is that it's been over-fished so the marine life has decreased. But on a good day you can still get in a dive with a nice Whale Shark, find schools of Jacks and Travalleys, plenty of Angles and Blue-Spotted Rays.

[uksomchai]

One of the best dives I had was in the middle of the jungle so wherever there is water you can dive. You may need to take all your own equipment as we did but freshwater diving is a totally different dive to saltwater.

[sharktooth]

Put Another Dollar In. Pay And Dive Immediately. Aka PADI. An "Advanced Diver" in just nine dives???? What a joke.

[FolkGuitar]

Put Another Dollar In. Pay And Dive Immediately. Aka PADI. An "Advanced Diver" in just nine dives???? What a joke.

It's just a term, same as "licensed driver." Just because you can steer a car through a driving test, doesn't make one a safe or effective driver. That takes experience. Lots of experience.

Same with diving. You get certified as a diver but it really takes a few hundred dives before you can call yourself a 'skilled diver.' It takes certification for Nitrox use, certification for Wreck diving, certification for search and recovery, etc., etc. The list of skill sets is quite long. All the Open Water and Advance Open Water teach are basic equipment, safety procedures, and rudimentary diving skills for ordinary diving scenarios.

PADI is a business. A 'for profit' business. They want more customers so they made the requirements easier. They removed the 'requirement' for a Night Dive from the 'Advanced Open Water' class because they felt too many people were afraid to sign up because they were afraid to make the night dive. They created more class levels to attract more customers. That's how businesses survive. Marketing. It's easy to call them names. They are laughing all the way to the bank.

[2fishin2]

Put Another Dollar In. Pay And Dive Immediately. Aka PADI. An "Advanced Diver" in just nine dives???? What a joke.

It's just a term, same as "licensed driver." Just because you can steer a car through a driving test, doesn't make one a safe or effective driver. That takes experience. Lots of experience.

Same with diving. You get certified as a diver but it really takes a few hundred dives before you can call yourself a 'skilled diver.' It takes certification for Nitrox use, certification for Wreck diving, certification for search and recovery, etc., etc. The list of skill sets is quite long. All the Open Water and Advance Open Water teach are basic equipment, safety procedures, and rudimentary diving skills for ordinary diving scenarios.

PADI is a business. A 'for profit' business. They want more customers so they made the requirements easier. They removed the 'requirement' for a Night Dive from the 'Advanced Open Water' class because they felt too many people were afraid to sign up because they were afraid to make the night dive. They created more class levels to attract more customers. That's how businesses survive. Marketing. It's easy to call them names. They are laughing all the way to the bank.

You forgot to include open water and advanced as "certifications." I would never call Open water as a "basic" course. After all it is where you learn how to dive?

[sharktooth]

Put Another Dollar In. Pay And Dive Immediately. Aka PADI. An "Advanced Diver" in just nine dives???? What a joke.

It's just a term, same as "licensed driver." Just because you can steer a car through a driving test, doesn't make one a safe or effective driver. That takes experience. Lots of experience.

Same with diving. You get certified as a diver but it really takes a few hundred dives before you can call yourself a 'skilled diver.' It takes certification for Nitrox use, certification for Wreck diving, certification for search and recovery, etc., etc. The list of skill sets is quite long. All the Open Water and Advance Open Water teach are basic equipment, safety procedures, and rudimentary diving skills for ordinary diving scenarios.

PADI is a business. A 'for profit' business. They want more customers so they made the requirements easier. They removed the 'requirement' for a Night Dive from the 'Advanced Open Water' class because they felt too many people were afraid to sign up because they were afraid to make the night dive. They created more class levels to attract more customers. That's how businesses survive. Marketing. It's easy to call them names. They are laughing all the way to the bank.

Over ten years ago I "certified" over 300 students under the PADI system. Most of the "advanced" students I taught, had absolutely no idea of basic rudimentary skills and were complete panic merchants. Teaching a so called padi advanced course basically meant starting from scratch. Not surprising really given that most padi instructors I met and worked with were absolutely useless.

[FolkGuitar]

Put Another Dollar In. Pay And Dive Immediately. Aka PADI. An "Advanced Diver" in just nine dives???? What a joke.

It's just a term, same as "licensed driver." Just because you can steer a car through a driving test, doesn't make one a safe or effective driver. That takes experience. Lots of experience.

Same with diving. You get certified as a diver but it really takes a few hundred dives before you can call yourself a 'skilled diver.' It takes certification for Nitrox use, certification for Wreck diving, certification for search and recovery, etc., etc. The list of skill sets is quite long. All the Open Water and Advance Open Water teach are basic equipment, safety procedures, and rudimentary diving skills for ordinary diving scenarios.

PADI is a business. A 'for profit' business. They want more customers so they made the requirements easier. They removed the 'requirement' for a Night Dive from the 'Advanced Open Water' class because they felt too many people were afraid to sign up because they were afraid to make the night dive. They created more class levels to attract more customers. That's how businesses survive. Marketing. It's easy to call them names. They are laughing all the way to the bank.

Over ten years ago I "certified" over 300 students under the PADI system. Most of the "advanced" students I taught, had absolutely no idea of basic rudimentary skills and were complete panic merchants. Teaching a so called padi advanced course basically meant starting from scratch. Not surprising really given that most padi instructors I met and worked with were absolutely useless.

Not surprising. Just as in the academic field, there are good teachers and poor teachers. No difference in the recreational fields. As a PADI instructor, you follow PADI course structure. And I suppose every teacher thinks he/she is one of the good teachers, and many think all the others are the bad ones.

As I said before, it's the same with driving a car. Watch someone who's driven for 7-8 hours handle rush-hour traffic. Total panic. We've seen what just 'having a driving license' means here in Thailand, and you can easily get your Thai driving license with less than 4-5 hours of practice in a car.

Other than BSAC and IANTD, all of the various certifying bodies produce the same results with their introductory classes. PADI just markets them better. That is the reason it is so successful and has the highest number of dive shops and schools around the world. It's not the 'best' dive training. (That would be BSAC.) It's the most profitable. And as a 'business,' that's what counts.

How many thousands of dollars did you spend to become a PADI instructor? Every step of the way (8-10 of them) costs several hundred dollars, and the final final few steps costs thousands each. THEN, you need to spend hundreds more just to renew you teaching certification each and every year. If you let it lapse, you have to start over paying thousands to re-take the Instructor Development course, right?

All in all, you must have spent several thousand dollars to get the certification that YOU imply isn't worth the paper it's printed on...

Pay Another Dollar In. And you did. But you say it isn't worth it? PADI offers more than 45 different certifications. The average PADI instructor can only teach three or four of them. It requires much more training to teach most of the courses beyond the basics. Very few can teach 'Tri-Mix.' Few are certified to teach 'Cavern Diver. ' Fewer still are certified to award "Master Scuba Diver" certification... unless you Pay Another Dollar In.

Edited September 22, 2015 by FolkGuitar

[chingmai331]

Marginally pertinent but at the MaeJo golf course the management is digging a huge hole in the ground, i mean certainly more than 100 feet deep, for water storage. Of course, it ain't filled yet but one day it might be and then may make a 'deep but boring' dive site.

Guess i'm pretty ignorant but is 100 feet considered 'deep' for scuba dives?

[fritzzz25]

This may be the only lucrative business for SCUBA in CM

[FolkGuitar]

Marginally pertinent but at the MaeJo golf course the management is digging a huge hole in the ground, i mean certainly more than 100 feet deep, for water storage. Of course, it ain't filled yet but one day it might be and then may make a 'deep but boring' dive site.

Guess i'm pretty ignorant but is 100 feet considered 'deep' for scuba dives?

According to PADI, a person with an "Open Water" certification should not dive beyond 60 feet. 100 feet is considered a 'deep dive,' and the possibility of nitrogen narcosis exists, and the symptoms are explored in PADI's "Advance Open Water" certification course. 120 feet is considered to be the limit to Non-Decompression Limit diving, although divers do routinely dive beyond that, but usually no more than 140 feet, and at that depth for less than 6 minutes. (NDL means that you don't need to make decompression stops during your ascent, only a 'safety stop' at 15 feet just to be sure of de-gassing.)

There is a dive site in Guam called "The Blue Hole" (there are Blue Holes in many of the world's dive venues) that begins on top of a wall shelf at about 40 feet and has an exit 'window' at 125 - 140 feet. The dive shops in Guam take Open Water divers through this site every day, although it is not recommended by most certifying agencies. The usual dive is to enter the hole from the top of the shelf, drop down and exit through the top of the window. I prefer to make this dive in reverse, entering through the window and looking up at the silhouettes of divers coming down against the bright background of the opening to the hole. Much prettier this way, and as the hole has a large enough diameter, safe enough to do.

Edited September 22, 2015 by FolkGuitar

[hml367]

What about dive computers in regard to depth and time limits? There was a big change in dive profiles when these computers came on the scene.

[FolkGuitar]

What about dive computers in regard to depth and time limits? There was a big change in dive profiles when these computers came on the scene.

Dive computers give a much better, and often safer dive profile than when using tables or wheels. Although the tables tend to be very conservative, they don't take into account the exact depths a diver may encounter, especially when diving coral reef sites where a swimmer may be changing depths while following the contours of the reef structure. The tables give an NDL time for a specific depth. Period. The newer 'wheel' makes it easier to set up a multi-depth profile (usually no more than two or three different depths, on average) but still fails to be able to take into account a diver that enters a 'swim-through' or goes over the edge of a reef and down a few feet.

The dive computers DO take into account these actions. The monitor ACTUAL depths and times, constantly re-adjusting the NDL times to coincide with the depths at which a diver has been swimming. Very accurate feedback generally INCREASING the bottom times that a diver can enjoy. Just as an example, if a table tells a diver he can stay at his deepest level for 10 minutes before beginning his ascent (which is how the tables are used by a new diver,) while exploring a sloping reef, a dive computer may give that same dive a 20 minute or even a 25 minute dive time as the diver slowly ascends during his exploration.

The dive computers also have built-in alarms that will warn a diver if he tries to ascend too quickly, alarms for NDL times, count-down timers for surface intervals before making second or third dives, etc, and the newer ones are able to calculate for enriched-air mixes called Nitrox.

Dive computers (which are the size of large wrist watches today) make diving a much better experience.

[Rimkok]

Put Another Dollar In. Pay And Dive Immediately. Aka PADI. An "Advanced Diver" in just nine dives???? What a joke.

It's just a term, same as "licensed driver." Just because you can steer a car through a driving test, doesn't make one a safe or effective driver. That takes experience. Lots of experience.

Same with diving. You get certified as a diver but it really takes a few hundred dives before you can call yourself a 'skilled diver.' It takes certification for Nitrox use, certification for Wreck diving, certification for search and recovery, etc., etc. The list of skill sets is quite long. All the Open Water and Advance Open Water teach are basic equipment, safety procedures, and rudimentary diving skills for ordinary diving scenarios.

PADI is a business. A 'for profit' business. They want more customers so they made the requirements easier. They removed the 'requirement' for a Night Dive from the 'Advanced Open Water' class because they felt too many people were afraid to sign up because they were afraid to make the night dive. They created more class levels to attract more customers. That's how businesses survive. Marketing. It's easy to call them names. They are laughing all the way to the bank.

You are right PADI FG it is a profit business but not for the instructors. It is impossible to make a decent living as an instructor. You will always be on the bones of your @rse. It is OK for a couple of years when you are young but eventually the reality will hit and it is time to go and get a proper job. I have met many instructors that gave up in the end. Even if you own a dive shop I don't believe there is much money to be made, especially in Thailand.