Myanmar defends decision barring Rohingya from voting

[Jonathan Fairfield]

Myanmar defends decision barring Rohingya from voting

MATTHEW PENNINGTON, Associated Press

WASHINGTON (AP) — Myanmar has defended a decision barring 800,000 ethnic minority people from voting in November elections by saying that green card holders can't vote in U.S. elections either.

Foreign Minister Wanna Maung Lwin drew awkward laughter Thursday in New York at the Council on Foreign Relations when he likened the situation of foreign citizens permitted to live and work in the U.S. after obtaining a green card or permanent residence permit from the government with Myanmar's so-called "white card" holders, many of them stateless Rohingya Muslims.

In March, Myanmar declared the temporary identification cards invalid. Those who held them could vote in the last national elections in 2010, but they won't be able to vote this time.

That's drawn international criticism. It is the latest sign of discrimination against a persecuted, stateless minority. Many Rohingya have lived in Myanmar for decades.

U.N. Secretary-General Ban Ki-moon on Thursday met Wanna Maung Lwin and expressed concern about the disenfranchisement of previously eligible minority groups, mostly Rohingya.

-- (c) Associated Press 2015.09.25

[Emster23]

"In March, Myanmar declared the temporary identification cards invalid. Those who held them could vote in the last national elections in 2010, but they won't be able to vote this time."

Picked a very poor comparison.... Why do they have temporary ID cards? Most of them were probably born in Myanmar. They ought to have permanent ID cards.

If they were born in USA they would be US citizens, automatically (Trumpy would need Constitutional amendment to change that). And could be on path to US citizenship.

I guess precedent means nothing either, if they could vote in 2010, why can't they vote now?

[anon4546543]

Afghanistan, Pakistan, India and all countries east were not Islamist until they were invaded, much as Europe is being invaded now. You can either choose not to be Islamist and stop them now or cave in and be overrun. If you enjoy repression, let them in. If you choose some form of freedom of expression, stop them. Just stop them. Congratulations to Myanmar, they have chosen their culture over the sick culture of Islam.

[Linzz]

Afghanistan, Pakistan, India and all countries east were not Islamist until they were invaded, much as Europe is being invaded now. You can either choose not to be Islamist and stop them now or cave in and be overrun. If you enjoy repression, let them in. If you choose some form of freedom of expression, stop them. Just stop them. Congratulations to Myanmar, they have chosen their culture over the sick culture of Islam.

Are you suffering from xenophobia and hysteria? You enjoy using emotional words like "overrun" and on another post "breeding" These are words that only bigots use.

Different religions have invaded countries for centuries.

In other centuries when religions became deviant there was not the same dissemination of information as today, but we know about the Christian Inquisition, the Catholic Conquistadors, the more recent Irish Catholic/Protestant conflict bombings, the KKK in America. What about the political religions? Communism wiped over 20 million people in Russia..Pol Pot tortured and killed millions in Cambodia. And Rwanda? And now we have the persecution of an indigenous minority resulting in thousands of deaths in Myanmar which you support

You have succumbed to the "The're coming to get you" paranoia and that Islam is owned by extremists because they are not. I remember the "red under the bed" of the 60's hysteria. Communism is almost finished and will not survive. Nor will Islamic fundamentalism because so many of them in so many Islamic countries are fighting oppression by Muslim extremists to get an education and human rights.

[tigermoth]

Afghanistan, Pakistan, India and all countries east were not Islamist until they were invaded, much as Europe is being invaded now. You can either choose not to be Islamist and stop them now or cave in and be overrun. If you enjoy repression, let them in. If you choose some form of freedom of expression, stop them. Just stop them. Congratulations to Myanmar, they have chosen their culture over the sick culture of Islam.

The only sick one is you, a racist bigot. For starters the religion of islam is no sicker than christianity or buddism. The so called peacful religion of buddism is being destroyed by the bigoted and fanatical monks of Myanmar who are on the same path of the extremists of IS or any other extremist policy. Hitler was example of christianity gone wrong.

[anon4546543]

ahh, tigermoth. Another name caller. You have already lost the arguement and face by name calling. As for history, Christianity and Buddism do have things to answer for in the distant past. Now lets get real. What religion supports murder of teachers, kidnapping of women children to be sold for sex slaves. Killing by stoning and beheading. Religious intolerance. Killing your daughter if she is suspected of bringing some form of shame to the family. Cutting the clitoris of young girls. Forming ghettoes where they do live in the west because they are not allowed to mingle with "infidels". Mullahs in the west who preach hate and violence. The mob that is invading your country will bring these cultural quirks with them. And the children of these economic tourists will grow to hate your culture because they will not be allowed to become a part of your society. They will hate you and then they will try to kill you. Here we come Boston marathon, here we come Sydney murderer, Here we come, London, Paris. So invite these anti assimilators into your home first. Show some humanity from your own hip pocket. At your peril.

[Linzz]

ahh, tigermoth. Another name caller. You have already lost the arguement and face by name calling. As for history, Christianity and Buddism do have things to answer for in the distant past. Now lets get real. What religion supports murder of teachers, kidnapping of women children to be sold for sex slaves. Killing by stoning and beheading. Religious intolerance. Killing your daughter if she is suspected of bringing some form of shame to the family. Cutting the clitoris of young girls. Forming ghettoes where they do live in the west because they are not allowed to mingle with "infidels". Mullahs in the west who preach hate and violence. The mob that is invading your country will bring these cultural quirks with them. And the children of these economic tourists will grow to hate your culture because they will not be allowed to become a part of your society. They will hate you and then they will try to kill you. Here we come Boston marathon, here we come Sydney murderer, Here we come, London, Paris. So invite these anti assimilators into your home first. Show some humanity from your own hip pocket. At your peril.

Spider maybe you haven't yet read my answer to your other post on this same newsletter titled "Buddhist monks in Myanmar celebrate repressive laws." So I repeat here that I am in admiration of your parents who bravely fought Nazism, but find it a huge contradiction in your understanding of what they truly fought against. Basically that was cruelty, racism and ethnic cleansing. Strangely enough in spite of your confession about what they stood for you still fly in the face of that and support ethnic cleansing by the Myanmar government. As I said on that post, I never accused you of being a Nazi (therefore no name calling) but simply asked you if you actually were a modern day one because the tenor of your rationale seems to support it.

You still refuse to separate out the ordinary Muslim from the extremists you describe. Do you think that your parents thought all Germans should be stopped and killed or just the Nazi's? Clearly there were many in Germany that did not support the Nazi's, just as there are many Muslims that do not support ISIS. All you describe in your above post is true, extreme and despicable, and I agree with you that the threat is clear,but that does not represent all of Islam per se'. You still are determined to use emotive terms like "mobs invading" and "economic tourists." What the hell are you talking about? Economic tourists? Your descriptions of people fleeing war and terror as economic tourists is just simply callous and a deliberate misrepresentation to satisfy your clear hatred of anything Muslim even if it's vulnerable and benign.

You lack an understanding of Islam, and you don't care to know. As I said before I am not Muslim nor do I support it, but I know enough to realize that it has been hijacked by the very people you seem to think represents it in it's entirety. You've got a moral dilemma now. Are you going to continue with your emotional tirade, cherry picking incidents to back up your wholesale prejudice or are you going to take a second look at an overview of what the causes are and the solutions to a big contemporary problem?

It is the easiest path to stand on your soapbox and beat you chest and preach hate speech. That's exactly what the Mullahs do. That's what you have been doing too in all your posts on this subject as well. I am calling you to be different from them. Will you do It? Can you do it? Have you the moral fiber like your parents had? No need to answer, just think about it, and think about being an answer to the problem we face rather than being part of that problem.

[Tai777]

I don't think anyone fought Nazism because they cared about the cruelty, they just knew that their countries were going to get invaded next and wanted to stop the Nazi from gaining momentum.

Same with every war. You think the US invaded Vietnam because they cared about Vietnamese people? No, they just wanted to stop the spread of Communism.

Islam is already widespread enough, it shouldn't be left to grow in Myanmar. Wherever there is Islam there is a radical element. Even in England there are British born Muslims who go to fight in the middle east. Who says the Rohingya won't join Islamic State or some other organization?

Better to just get rid of this disease called Islam.

[Linzz]

I don't think anyone fought Nazism because they cared about the cruelty, they just knew that their countries were going to get invaded next and wanted to stop the Nazi from gaining momentum.

Same with every war. You think the US invaded Vietnam because they cared about Vietnamese people? No, they just wanted to stop the spread of Communism.

Islam is already widespread enough, it shouldn't be left to grow in Myanmar. Wherever there is Islam there is a radical element. Even in England there are British born Muslims who go to fight in the middle east. Who says the Rohingya won't join Islamic State or some other organization?

Better to just get rid of this disease called Islam.

Your argument is rational enough at the beginning but then becomes visceral. How do you propose getting "rid of this disease called Islam"? Mass extermination of 1.57 billion people? Hello the argument has come full circle and we're back to the Nazis again. You and others on here are prime candidates for right wing extremist organisations.

I'll tell you this for nothing, that if the government in Myanmar continues the persecution of the Rohingya and it's attempts to ethnically cleanse, then because there will be nowhere else to go, exactly what you said WILL happen and Rohingya will start to join radical groups like ISIS.

It's probably already too late.

You guys persist on being the mirror image of what you oppose.

[Naam]

I don't think anyone fought Nazism because they cared about the cruelty, they just knew that their countries were going to get invaded next and wanted to stop the Nazi from gaining momentum.

Same with every war. You think the US invaded Vietnam because they cared about Vietnamese people? No, they just wanted to stop the spread of Communism.

Islam is already widespread enough, it shouldn't be left to grow in Myanmar. Wherever there is Islam there is a radical element. Even in England there are British born Muslims who go to fight in the middle east. Who says the Rohingya won't join Islamic State or some other organization?

Better to just get rid of this disease called Islam.

violation of forum rule #11

...overly negative comments directed towards...

any group on the basis of race, nationality, religion, gender or sexual orientation.

[Naam]

Afghanistan, Pakistan, India and all countries east were not Islamist until they were invaded, much as Europe is being invaded now. You can either choose not to be Islamist and stop them now or cave in and be overrun. If you enjoy repression, let them in. If you choose some form of freedom of expression, stop them. Just stop them. Congratulations to Myanmar, they have chosen their culture over the sick culture of Islam.

violation of forum rule #11

...overly negative comments directed towards...

any group on the basis of race, nationality, religion, gender or sexual orientation.

[Tai777]

Ok, I'm sorry and I take that back. I think Burma is a unique Buddhist country though and I didn't say the Rohingya should be killed but I do believe Islam could potentially ruin Myanmar. Maybe they should just go to Bangladesh..

[Linzz]

Ok, I'm sorry and I take that back. I think Burma is a unique Buddhist country though and I didn't say the Rohingya should be killed but I do believe Islam could potentially ruin Myanmar. Maybe they should just go to Bangladesh..

The Rohingya people can't go to Bangladesh because they are not wanted there either because their natural home is Myanmar and has been for generations. Those that have escape to Bangladesh end up in camps there too. Bangladesh has enough problems taking care of it's own people, let alone taking care of former citizens of Myanmar.

[manarak]

"In March, Myanmar declared the temporary identification cards invalid. Those who held them could vote in the last national elections in 2010, but they won't be able to vote this time."

Picked a very poor comparison.... Why do they have temporary ID cards? Most of them were probably born in Myanmar. They ought to have permanent ID cards.

If they were born in USA they would be US citizens, automatically (Trumpy would need Constitutional amendment to change that). And could be on path to US citizenship.

I guess precedent means nothing either, if they could vote in 2010, why can't they vote now?

Giving nationality to people who just happen to be born from foreign parents but within national borders is a mistake.

[Linzz]

"In March, Myanmar declared the temporary identification cards invalid. Those who held them could vote in the last national elections in 2010, but they won't be able to vote this time."

Picked a very poor comparison.... Why do they have temporary ID cards? Most of them were probably born in Myanmar. They ought to have permanent ID cards.

If they were born in USA they would be US citizens, automatically (Trumpy would need Constitutional amendment to change that). And could be on path to US citizenship.

I guess precedent means nothing either, if they could vote in 2010, why can't they vote now?

Giving nationality to people who just happen to be born from foreign parents but within national borders is a mistake.

The Rohingya have been in Myanmar for decades, as the OP said..Citizenship has been taken away from them even if their parents were born nationals.

Edited September 28, 2015 by Linzz

[manarak]

"In March, Myanmar declared the temporary identification cards invalid. Those who held them could vote in the last national elections in 2010, but they won't be able to vote this time."

Picked a very poor comparison.... Why do they have temporary ID cards? Most of them were probably born in Myanmar. They ought to have permanent ID cards.

If they were born in USA they would be US citizens, automatically (Trumpy would need Constitutional amendment to change that). And could be on path to US citizenship.

I guess precedent means nothing either, if they could vote in 2010, why can't they vote now?

Giving nationality to people who just happen to be born from foreign parents but within national borders is a mistake.

The Rohingya have been in Myanmar for decades, as the OP said..Citizenship has been taken away from them even if their parents were born nationals.

That's another story. Can't verify the facts.

Decades, yes. but a majority of families have moved in recently.

According to figures on Wikipedia, they were about 500k in 1983, and 1,3 million in 2014. Some sources claim 1,5 million.

[Lorn]

ahh, tigermoth. Another name caller. You have already lost the arguement and face by name calling. As for history, Christianity and Buddism do have things to answer for in the distant past. Now lets get real. What religion supports murder of teachers, kidnapping of women children to be sold for sex slaves. Killing by stoning and beheading. Religious intolerance. Killing your daughter if she is suspected of bringing some form of shame to the family. Cutting the clitoris of young girls. Forming ghettoes where they do live in the west because they are not allowed to mingle with "infidels". Mullahs in the west who preach hate and violence. The mob that is invading your country will bring these cultural quirks with them. And the children of these economic tourists will grow to hate your culture because they will not be allowed to become a part of your society. They will hate you and then they will try to kill you. Here we come Boston marathon, here we come Sydney murderer, Here we come, London, Paris. So invite these anti assimilators into your home first. Show some humanity from your own hip pocket. At your peril.

The Christian bible supports (almost) all those things. Some "Christians" may choose to not follow that part of the bible but for some reason choose to still call themselves Christian. That is up to them. In the same way the Koran may support some terrible things but you equally cannot say the "religion" supports those things as if there is a coherent whole group which is "Islam" or "Christianity", It is clear that the majority of Muslims do not.

[Lorn]

"In March, Myanmar declared the temporary identification cards invalid. Those who held them could vote in the last national elections in 2010, but they won't be able to vote this time."

Picked a very poor comparison.... Why do they have temporary ID cards? Most of them were probably born in Myanmar. They ought to have permanent ID cards.

If they were born in USA they would be US citizens, automatically (Trumpy would need Constitutional amendment to change that). And could be on path to US citizenship.

I guess precedent means nothing either, if they could vote in 2010, why can't they vote now?

Giving nationality to people who just happen to be born from foreign parents but within national borders is a mistake.

The Rohingya have been in Myanmar for decades, as the OP said..Citizenship has been taken away from them even if their parents were born nationals.

That's another story. Can't verify the facts.

Decades, yes. but a majority of families have moved in recently.

According to figures on Wikipedia, they were about 500k in 1983, and 1,3 million in 2014. Some sources claim 1,5 million.

So in 30 years the population has gone from 1% of the total population to 2%. Wow. Talk about an invasion! And wasn't it suggested that these Muslims breed like rabbits. So surely their excessive breeding inside the country must be the cause of the increase. Why would you think it was immigration?

[manarak]

That's another story. Can't verify the facts.

Decades, yes. but a majority of families have moved in recently.

According to figures on Wikipedia, they were about 500k in 1983, and 1,3 million in 2014. Some sources claim 1,5 million.

So in 30 years the population has gone from 1% of the total population to 2%. Wow. Talk about an invasion! And wasn't it suggested that these Muslims breed like rabbits. So surely their excessive breeding inside the country must be the cause of the increase. Why would you think it was immigration?

you posted in bad faith. consider the growth rate and the fact that this population is concentrated in small area of Myanmar

[Lorn]

That's another story. Can't verify the facts.

Decades, yes. but a majority of families have moved in recently.

According to figures on Wikipedia, they were about 500k in 1983, and 1,3 million in 2014. Some sources claim 1,5 million.

So in 30 years the population has gone from 1% of the total population to 2%. Wow. Talk about an invasion! And wasn't it suggested that these Muslims breed like rabbits. So surely their excessive breeding inside the country must be the cause of the increase. Why would you think it was immigration?

you posted in bad faith. consider the growth rate and the fact that this population is concentrated in small area of Myanmar

No. The growth rate is what you would expect from an impoverished area. The better access to infrastructure and opportunities a population has, the lower the growth rate. Don't see anything to back up your assertion that the majority of families must have moved in post 1983.

Also the 500k stat was for Rohingya whereas 1.3million is for all Muslims in the area. A not insignificant minority are Muslims from China and India who do not consider themselves Rohingya.

[Tai777]

So are the other Muslims "Indian looking" like the Rohingya or do they look East Asian?

[Linzz]

So are the other Muslims "Indian looking" like the Rohingya or do they look East Asian?

How is that relevant? What do you look like?

[Tai777]

I'm just curious as to whether they are Burmese Muslims or some Bangladeshi looking tribe

[simple1]

I'm just curious as to whether they are Burmese Muslims or some Bangladeshi looking tribe

By way of ethnicity Rohingya are Indo-Ayrian.

The first Muslims to settle in Arakan were in the area by the 1400s CE. Many served in the court of the Buddhist King Narameikhla (Min Saw Mun), who ruled Arakan in the 1430s. The Burmese attacked Arakan in the 1780s and incorporated Arakan in the then Buddhist kingdom.

http://asianhistory.about.com/od/Asian_History_Terms_N_Q/g/Who-Are-The-Rohingya.htm

Rohingya ethnicity was recognised and became citizens when Burma became independent in 1948. In 1982 Rohingya were made stateless when their citizenship was revoked by the dictatorship.

[Tai777]

I know, but I'm talking about the non-Rohingya Muslims. Are they Burmese looking, or are they similar to the Rohingyas and Bengals?

[simple1]

I know, but I'm talking about the non-Rohingya Muslims. Are they Burmese looking, or are they similar to the Rohingyas and Bengals?

Some Thai Muslims have the same physical characteristics as the Thai Buddhist population (including my wife and her family), so I assume the same applies in Myanmar. There are a number of different Muslim ethnic groups in Myanmar.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islam_in_Myanmar#Demographics

Don't forget the Burmese government also persecutes other religious minority groups, such as Christians, including using rape as a tool of oppression.

http://www.theguardian.com/global-development/2014/nov/25/burma-army-rape-ethnic-minorities

[Tai777]

That was an interesting article, I read through most of it. I'm guessing the Muslim Thai women are probably much more modest than the so-called "Buddhists."

One could probably get a good wife is he knew where to look in Thailand...

[Linzz]

I know, but I'm talking about the non-Rohingya Muslims. Are they Burmese looking, or are they similar to the Rohingyas and Bengals?

Not sure what you're driving at or what it really matters what people look like but if you're trying to establish rights to legitimacy based on ethnicity, then you will have to look back generations or to the more recent arrivals to Burma pre 1948.

"A second group of Muslims in the Rakhine State does not consider themselves as Rohingya, as they speak Rakhine which is closely related to the Burmese language, claim their ancestors have lived in the state for many centuries, and tend to share similar customs to the Rakhine Buddhists. They identify themselves 'Arakanese Muslims', 'Burmese Muslims' or simply 'Muslims'.

http://www.refworld.org/docid/49749cdcc.html

[Tai777]

I'm not driving at anything. I was simply curious as I have an interest in these things.

So there are indeed Tibeto-Burman Muslims.

I'd say the Rohingya are of Indo-Aryan stock.

Edited October 2, 2015 by Tai777