Thai universities 'struggling to climb up world rankings and be profitable'

[webfact]

EDUCATION
Thai universities 'struggling to climb up world rankings and be profitable'
PRATCH RUJIVANAROM
THE NATION

BANGKOK: -- INCREASING academic performance in order to climb up world university rankings while struggling to maintain high profitability is the major challenge that Thai universities face, education experts said last week.

The reform of Thailand's higher education in the age of globalisation was discussed by a forum at the Foreign Correspondents' Club of Thailand recently.

Deputy Education Minister Teerakiat Jaroensettasin said Thai local universities are caught up in the craze of world-class higher education, as they are competing to be in the top tier of the world's universities.

"We want to be among the top 100 or top 300 universities and there are so many ranking systems that do not coincide with each other," he said.

Each ranking system requires a different type of quality measurement. In the end, it is not clear that they can really represent the quality of education.

Rattana Lao, a recipient of an Ananda Mahidol scholarship and the author of "A Critical Study of Thailand's Higher Education Reforms: The Culture of Borrowing", also highlighted the achievement of many universities in Thailand to join the international leagues.

"We're caught between two stances. On the one hand, Thai universities want to catch up with the need to be international, to get a higher ranking.

"But they have to get the resources to do so by themselves, so they have to commercialise their programmes to ensure they can be sold," she said.

"Therefore, Thai universities are facing twin challenges. One is to get more money and one is to excel |intellectually. But when they are |busy finding ways to make more money, they will have no time left to improve academic performance," she said.

The commercialised programmes also affect the intellectual quality of higher education. The larger the classes, the fewer the opportunities for students to be endowed with decent academic skills such as critical thinking and self-learning.

"Normally for undergraduates, they should be able to write academic essays and conduct research on their topic of interest, but the tight curriculum of most programmes does not allow the student to do proper research," she said.

Not only is the trend among Thai universities to strive to be in the world's top ranks, the definition of a university is also still vague.

"We are still confused about the role of higher education as an intellectual institution for academic debate, as most academics prefer, or a skills training ground to produce workers to support the economy, which is the intention of the government.

"This different definition of higher education is not only debated in Thailand, but other countries in the world are also trying to draw the line. What we should do is find a balance between the two definitions," he said.

Source: http://www.nationmultimedia.com/national/Thai-universities-struggling-to-climb-up-world-ran-30269682.html

-- The Nation 2015-09-28

[davehowden]

Problem is you are judged on the product you produce, not the blah blah blah.

Outside (and to a degree inside) of Thailand a Thai degree is not worth the paper it is written on.

[fang37]

External professional recognition requirements should be met. Administrators at universities are motivated by government grants. Should a student fail, no $$$.

[SoilSpoil]

Problem is you are judged on the product you produce, not the blah blah blah.

Outside (and to a degree inside) of Thailand a Thai degree is not worth the paper it is written on.

Both sentences in your response contradict each other.

I know plenty of Thais and foreigners with Thai degrees who've landed great jobs either here or in other parts of the world. With statements as 'worth the paper written on it', you are clearly missing the mark.

But you are completely right with the produce produced.

[Seastallion]

"there are so many ranking systems that do not coincide with each other," he said.

Each ranking system requires a different type of quality measurement. In the end, it is not clear that they can really represent the quality of education."

That's right, if you can't make the grade, blame the grading system.

Whatever the grading system, if your institute is not producing quality graduates, then you are not going to score.

Hint: Plagiarised dissertations and unoriginal work are not considered quality academic output.

[rubl]

Maybe I missed something, but why would Universities need to be highly profitable ?

[Thian]

I know many Thais with university degree's from the USA who even can't speak english, how can that?

Also i never heard of a Thai not passing an exam. It's impossible that they all pass every time, work on that Thailand.

[trogers]

Why compete? Create your own Thai grading system for the world to reflect Thainess...

Then you would achieve the top 20, with little cost and high profit...

Edited September 28, 2015 by trogers

[new2here]

Maybe I missed something, but why would Universities need to be highly profitable ?

I think perhaps the better word here might be "sustainable" in that a public institution must have the right balance between state/taxpayer funding, tuition/fees charged as well as other income streams like grant/endowment and alumni donations.

I don't think the goal of a state (public) institution should be profitability like a traditional for-profit corporate entity would be, but I do think that there are very much elements of good financial stewardship, fiscal planning and diversification of revenue streams involved too.

[jacky54]

Are they real Universities at all in a western sense?

[prk888]

I taught at a 'real" (see above) Thai Uni. in a BKK suburb for one year. Typically tutors entered, picked up a mike, spoke to 50+ students for 40+ minutes and left. My Dean informed me after their year-end 'finals' that I wasn't allowed to fail any student because the parents would remove their offspring and the Uni. would lose fees.

I left the Uni.

[steveyinasia]

Why would an international student want to come to a Thai university and once again get treated like a child. Back in uniform and organised "sport" days like we used to have in primary school. By the time one reaches university they are ready to be individuals sailing their own course, not in Thailand though.

[Kasset Tak]

There are government and private universities, government universities are not about the profit while the private universities are all about the money.
I have had the pleasure to see the inside of 2 private universities here in Thailand and when the students pay 100-250,000 for a 1 year MBA then they will not get failed by the Uni.

I also know 3 people passing PhD in English that can't even string an easy sentence together in English, when asking how much they had to pay for their PhD the answers was between 500,000 and 1 million Baht as they studied at different Unis.

For my own experience I was offered (I did't accept) a MBA from a Uni if I stayed as lecturer there for a year, not studying, TEACHING!

So there is the problem in a nutshell, they pay for a degree not an education.

[Loeilad]

Basic problem - so long as you try to equate education and "profitability" you will fail.

Profit from good education comes AFTER education when these people get to contribute to science, academia, business and, of course, running the country.

so long as corruption outstrips education then you will have a country run by people who are simply intellectually below par and not up to the job.

[Dustdevil]

"there are so many ranking systems that do not coincide with each other," he said.

Each ranking system requires a different type of quality measurement. In the end, it is not clear that they can really represent the quality of education."

That's right, if you can't make the grade, blame the grading system.

Whatever the grading system, if your institute is not producing quality graduates, then you are not going to score.

Hint: Plagiarised dissertations and unoriginal work are not considered quality academic output.

(They are in the Middle East. Need I say more? At least Thais are frankly a people I admire in some ways, particularly some individuals I know.)

[Dustdevil]

Basic problem - so long as you try to equate education and "profitability" you will fail.

Profit from good education comes AFTER education when these people get to contribute to science, academia, business and, of course, running the country.

so long as corruption outstrips education then you will have a country run by people who are simply intellectually below par and not up to the job.

Ah yes... Malaysia too but much more so.

[ChrisY1]

I know many Thais with university degree's from the USA who even can't speak english, how can that?

Also i never heard of a Thai not passing an exam. It's impossible that they all pass every time, work on that Thailand.

Many US universities, and many other countries also, give preference to full fee paying students....the lifeblood of these institutions.......often real academic qualities can be overlooked.

[Loeilad]

Thailand is a place where so many things can be bought rather than earned - students and lecturers in the Uni system are able to "achieve" all sorts of qualifications that they simply don't deserve - nepotism, corruption and graft are endemic....there are plenty of examples anecdotes and observations above. It is of course very difficult to gather hard facts on this as no-one wants to admit to being part of a system that is so corrupt.

Yet the result is that people are going around with bits of paper claiming academic achievements that they just aren't capable of......

One of the most worrying concerns here is the training of doctors and other medical practitioners - their training is not immune to the vagaries of the Thai higher education system and the result yet again is that hospitals end up employing people who can't actually do the job properly.

many doctors place "certificates" from American medical institutions on their surgery walls. Many of these institutions have wonderful sounding names but are of dubious worth.

firstly this shows that even in Thailand there is little confidence in the training of doctors.

Secondly it shows the Thai love of bits of paper over common sense.

Thirdly on closer examination most of these "certificates" are misleading - they don't indicate that the doctor practices or trained in America, they usually indicate the doctor paid for a course in a particular topic - as an observer - and then got another bit of paper to stick on their wall at the end. Most of these certificates come from the US as it is far less common in Europe.

Edited September 28, 2015 by Loeilad

[PaPiPuPePo]

I had no idea one of the primary goals of a university was to "maintain high profitability"! Kudos to them for their candor.

[Lunchbob]

The types of classes and the amount Thai students take is ridiculous. The classes are designed for an audience of QA chuckleheads and not for the students. They schedule the end and the beginning of classes at the same time. The same students go from class to class together. What a mess. I am guessing that an old generation is running it poorly and blocking a younger, more progressive group from leadership.

[dcpo]

I work for one of the most prestigious Thai universities. One of the big things holding us back in world rankings is research output. Academics are not generally given enough time, resources or incentive to produce international standard research. The level of the academic staff is pretty good. Most people have PhDs from respectable Western or Japanese universities, and there are several members of staff who have attended elite institutions. Academic standards for the students are fairly low, in that in order to fail (and, despite what you may believe, students do fail and drop out here) people have to perform very poorly indeed. However, we take the courses seriously, we set exams that are reasonably difficult, and we make it very hard for students to cheat in them. It's not Cambridge or MIT, but if someone graduates from the faculty I teach at with a high GPA then they have, in my opinion, obtained a worthwhile qualification. Many of our students compete and do well in academic competitions which are by now means easy, and every year several of our graduates go to highly regarded foreign colleges for postgraduate study.

[Loeilad]

I know many Thais with university degree's from the USA who even can't speak english, how can that?

Also i never heard of a Thai not passing an exam. It's impossible that they all pass every time, work on that Thailand.

the amount of English required for a degree may vary - e.g. history versus Math....... however a PHD has to be original research and language may not be that important.

In Thailand there is a lot to suggest that many PHDs are not original research....in fact plagiarism and Google seem to feature strongly here.

There is, of course, the recent case of a British academic held in custody and being sued over his allegations of plagiarism. It would seem there are powerful people who far from improving the system, would move heaven and earth to protect the status quo.

[Loeilad]

I work for one of the most prestigious Thai universities. One of the big things holding us back in world rankings is research output. Academics are not generally given enough time, resources or incentive to produce international standard research. The level of the academic staff is pretty good. Most people have PhDs from respectable Western or Japanese universities, and there are several members of staff who have attended elite institutions. Academic standards for the students are fairly low, in that in order to fail (and, despite what you may believe, students do fail and drop out here) people have to perform very poorly indeed. However, we take the courses seriously, we set exams that are reasonably difficult, and we make it very hard for students to cheat in them. It's not Cambridge or MIT, but if someone graduates from the faculty I teach at with a high GPA then they have, in my opinion, obtained a worthwhile qualification. Many of our students compete and do well in academic competitions which are by now means easy, and every year several of our graduates go to highly regarded foreign colleges for postgraduate study.

"Most people have PhDs from respectable Western or Japanese universities," - which just about sums up the situation

[jacky54]

I work for one of the most prestigious Thai universities. One of the big things holding us back in world rankings is research output. Academics are not generally given enough time, resources or incentive to produce international standard research. The level of the academic staff is pretty good. Most people have PhDs from respectable Western or Japanese universities, and there are several members of staff who have attended elite institutions. Academic standards for the students are fairly low, in that in order to fail (and, despite what you may believe, students do fail and drop out here) people have to perform very poorly indeed. However, we take the courses seriously, we set exams that are reasonably difficult, and we make it very hard for students to cheat in them. It's not Cambridge or MIT, but if someone graduates from the faculty I teach at with a high GPA then they have, in my opinion, obtained a worthwhile qualification. Many of our students compete and do well in academic competitions which are by now means easy, and every year several of our graduates go to highly regarded foreign colleges for postgraduate study.

Why not name this better example?

[mike324]

"The larger the classes, the fewer the opportunities for students to be endowed with decent academic skills such as critical thinking and self-learning.

"Normally for undergraduates, they should be able to write academic essays and conduct research on their topic of interest, but the tight curriculum of most programmes does not allow the student to do proper research," she said."

Students are not well prepare since high school. Thai curriculum is a joke, I have friends who went to both Thai and US universities, the Thai one they say is a complete joke. Students slack off and course work is too easy. I have also friends who transfered from Thai University to the US, many can't keep up with the westerns system not because of language barrier but because of heavy course work and critical thinking required in western schools.

Not saying there are no good students, there are, but if you compare the student population as a whole, the average student performs poorly due to the Thai schooling curriculum.

[The Beguiled]

Thailand is a place where so many things can be bought rather than earned - students and lecturers in the Uni system are able to "achieve" all sorts of qualifications that they simply don't deserve - nepotism, corruption and graft are endemic....there are plenty of examples anecdotes and observations above. It is of course very difficult to gather hard facts on this as no-one wants to admit to being part of a system that is so corrupt.

Yet the result is that people are going around with bits of paper claiming academic achievements that they just aren't capable of......

One of the most worrying concerns here is the training of doctors and other medical practitioners - their training is not immune to the vagaries of the Thai higher education system and the result yet again is that hospitals end up employing people who can't actually do the job properly.

many doctors place "certificates" from American medical institutions on their surgery walls. Many of these institutions have wonderful sounding names but are of dubious worth.

firstly this shows that even in Thailand there is little confidence in the training of doctors.

Secondly it shows the Thai love of bits of paper over common sense.

Thirdly on closer examination most of these "certificates" are misleading - they don't indicate that the doctor practices or trained in America, they usually indicate the doctor paid for a course in a particular topic - as an observer - and then got another bit of paper to stick on their wall at the end. Most of these certificates come from the US as it is far less common in Europe.

Two years back I became very unwell in a matter of two hours.

My wife took me to the nearest hospital (that I later inspected and it would be no more than a clinic in a western country) and I was in and out of consciousness and all the "good doctor" would do was wait and watch as he was unsure if I was "on drugs".

He would not give me water to drink!

He was qualified Thai doctor no less.

I was dehydrating at a fast pace and my wife decided to call an ambulance to take me to Bangkok Hospital where they diagnosed me within 5 minutes of having Dengue fever (second time around) and I almost ended up dying from the poor service from the first doctor.

I was a full paying patient with medical travel insurance and both hospitals were advised by my wife at my arrival to their hospital.

So qualifications are a real problem in Thailand.

And why is it that many western countries do not recognise Thai BA's, MA's. etc?

[Now or Never]

All Education should be provided free by the government.

[Usernames]

There is a certain "prestigious" university in the Bangkok suburbs--just over the Bangkok provincial limits, in fact--that has an international college that has teachers who blackmailed students, accepted payments, covered up violence, and faked lecturers' research records. Even in Asia, where higher ed is corrupt beyond belief, this institution is so routine and commonplace in its vices as to bring shame to the mere word "corruption." Unqualified people hired in droves. Teachers who simply can't teach. Exams fit for an 8th grader. What is the degree worth? You tell me. In Thailand, it's all about the prestige of the degree, so the students don't care. Even if they embarrass themselves out in the real world.

Edited September 28, 2015 by Usernames

[abrahamzvi]

Problem is you are judged on the product you produce, not the blah blah blah.

Outside (and to a degree inside) of Thailand a Thai degree is not worth the paper it is written on.

Both sentences in your response contradict each other.

I know plenty of Thais and foreigners with Thai degrees who've landed great jobs either here or in other parts of the world. With statements as 'worth the paper written on it', you are clearly missing the mark.

But you are completely right with the produce produced.

So do I!. However, the difficulties facing Thais with good Thai degrees, or even foreigners with Thai degrees, is that some organisations, like international schools and others shy the Thai degrees holders, possibly under pressure from their customers (in the case of schools the parents) and prefer foreign degrees , even if they are from dubious universities. Both my daughters attended international schools and I met there a number of Thai teachers, who had the greatest difficulties getting the positions, although they had excellent degrees from a reputable Thai university and the same applied to a reacher of Indian origin, with a British Passport who had a PhD from a Thai university and was paid a lower salary than an English teacher with a Bachelor degree from an American university. I believe this is the situation in a number of commercial enterprises and I am of the opinion that the sooner this situation is improved the better for all concerned.

[dcpo]

I work for one of the most prestigious Thai universities. One of the big things holding us back in world rankings is research output. Academics are not generally given enough time, resources or incentive to produce international standard research. The level of the academic staff is pretty good. Most people have PhDs from respectable Western or Japanese universities, and there are several members of staff who have attended elite institutions. Academic standards for the students are fairly low, in that in order to fail (and, despite what you may believe, students do fail and drop out here) people have to perform very poorly indeed. However, we take the courses seriously, we set exams that are reasonably difficult, and we make it very hard for students to cheat in them. It's not Cambridge or MIT, but if someone graduates from the faculty I teach at with a high GPA then they have, in my opinion, obtained a worthwhile qualification. Many of our students compete and do well in academic competitions which are by now means easy, and every year several of our graduates go to highly regarded foreign colleges for postgraduate study.

"Most people have PhDs from respectable Western or Japanese universities," - which just about sums up the situation

Yes, Western universities are generally better, and much better for research in most areas. There is no denying that. I'm just addressing the idea that a lot of people seem to have that Thai universities are just Mickey Mouse diploma mills.