New Changes For The Extension Of Stay Based On Business

[Sunbelt Asia]

So how does all this affect an application supported by a letter from a company inviting you to Thailand to "seek business opportunities"? If you're coming to Thailand with the hope of doing business with another company or establishing your own business with another company's assistance then you have no reason to apply for a work permit.

This does not affect it all. This only applies if you are applying for a long term visa inside Thailand (extension of stay based on business)

If you have a work permit and a multi entry visa (one where you must travel every 90 days) it is not affected as well.

www.sunbeltasiagroup.com

[Sunbelt Asia]

Is this for a 51% Thai owned company or is it for a 100% Thai owned company as well Sunbelt?

For both

So if you got married changed non imm b to a non imm o, the whole situation would be easier?

only need to earn 40k a month instead of 50k or just have 400k in the bank? , if the the new 200/20k rule comes in even easier?

It would be easier and you only need 40K salary per month or 400K in the bank.

Please note that the new requirements is not for the work permit application itself, it's regarding the one-year-extension, which is a completely different animal. We haven't heard that the labour department has changed the rules.

So you could possible still keep your work permit, and instead of doing a one-year extension at Immigration, just go for a multiple NON-B instead, and do border runs every 90 days.

Correct

Looking at the rules, that may be a clear loss in a short time.

But it will likely be a long time to make up for

the lost entrpeneurs and workers they have run off.

The perception by some Thai leaders is the foreigner comes here with a currency that is high compared to the Baht. They are able to invest much easier than Thais and then they don't pay tax. This is the common theme; we hear over and over, it’s to get the foreigners to pay tax. The bar owner that did not have a work permit and was doing monthly visa runs. He now will be in the system with limiting the visa runs.

Another recent quote "The foreign businessman that was milking Thailand, now will be forced to give some milk back if they want to stay here."

In order to get these people to comply, have they gained some revenue by forcing these people to pay tax, but hurt the economy? A number of people would say this is the case.

I have been running a web hosting and web design business in Thailand for the last 10 years.

We have always used the "consultant' model for our business, one thai per one farang staff.

We do not have real capital, only registered capital of 2,000,000 Baht.

Does this really mean I will have to now hire 8 thai staff to cover me and my other farang here in the office?

Yes

Does this really mean I have to have REAL capital of 2,000,000 Baht as opposed to registered capital?

It does not need to be cash. It can be non-cash as well.... equipment, inventory, service.

Does this really mean I will have to show profit in bank for future year to cover these items?

Must show enough income to pay for the foreign employees.

www.sunbeltasiagroup.com

[Sunbelt Asia]

Hi.

My 90-day non b visa expires Nov. 8 and I already got my work permit (which also expires on the same date). Am I already okay for extension as long as I do it way before it expires?

Thanks.

Yes

If you do 90-day visa runs on a multi-entry non-imm B visa then nothing changes, right?

correct

This is unclear -- does this apply to non-immigrant B visas for people who do not need a work permit? Does it apply to extensions of such a visa, or only to applying for a new business visa?

In order to get a extension of stay based on business, you must have a work permit. (This is a long term visa in Thailand, if you are working and meet the criteria )

It is not in reference to the one year multi entry visa.

www.sunbeltasiagroup.com

www.sunbeltasiagroup.com

[johnRS]

New changes for the Extension of stay based on Business for Oct 1st 2006.

The net equity on the balance sheet, must be not less than one million Baht.

[http://www.sunbeltasiagroup.com

Do you think a Letter of Comfort from a parent company would be acceptable?

[Smithson]

Does this mean that to extend me visa for 12 months I will have to show assets, stock and/or cash to the value of 2 million?

Thanks!

Edited September 29, 2006 by Smithson

[~G~]

In order to get these people to comply, have they gained some revenue by forcing these people to pay tax, but hurt the economy? A number of people would say this is the case.

Let's take the example of a foreigner running a company with 2 Thais. He will not hire two more Thais just to satisfy the requirement (anyway hiring 2 more minimum wage thais does not result in higher payment to the revenue department, just to social security). The foreginer will just get a one year Non-Imm-B with 90 days entry permits, instead of paying for an extenstion of stay. Then paying the Cambodia government (for example) visa fee. I don't see how they increase Thai revenues here. Just making it more uncomfortable for the foreigner, having to fly abroad and apply for a visa once a year. Oh yes, unless they start making it harder to get the non-imm-B visa at the foriegn embassies/consulates.

Foreginers will just spend more on flights and visas for foreign countries (oh yes, visa runs services as well) instead of simply making the payment to the Thai government. What's the point?

In addition, it will make it more difficult to apply for PR after a few years for those that don't meet the criteria.

Another recent quote "The foreign businessman that was milking Thailand, now will be forced to give some milk back if they want to stay here."

A Thai can start a business legally with zero expenses, foreigners need to start a company, register for VAT, pay for a work permit, visa renewals, audits, etc., who is milking who?

[Smithson]

It would appear that the easiest option is just to get the work permit and a multiple entry non B.

[Sunbelt Asia]

Do you think a Letter of Comfort from a parent company would be acceptable?

You can try but most likly the answer will be " Have the parent company send the money here."

Does this mean that to extend me visa for 12 months I will have to show assets, stock and/or cash to the value of 2 million?

The paid up capital will not be a problem as it can be cash or non-cash. The potential problem with some firms will be the net equity of one million Baht. This cannot be "air."

Also the requirement of income to pay the foreigners salaries for the next accounting year may be another issue.

www.sunbeltasiagroup.com

[millwall_fan]

I'm hoping that some of the posters above have thrown me a lifeline:- I have been advised that I need to show that I have 400,000 baht in a Thai bank account in order to extend my non-imm O visa to a year visa based on marriage to a Thai national. I cant do this as I am just in the process of sinking every last baht I've got into a business which is owned in my wifes name. Now some of you guys are suggesting that If I have an income of 40000 a month, I could use that to get the visa instead. I have a UK income that far exceeds that. How do I demonstrate that I have this income? Do I show my UK income statements or do I have to show that I have been converting this into baht. If so will my UK bank statements which show that I have cashed far in excess of that for months suffice. OR do I have to show that the money was paid into a Thai acount (it was but a joint acount.

Phew this is bloody complicated. Can anyone help?

Thanks. GARY

[southbot]

Hi Forums

Yo, Sunbelt folks. We (my business) work as consultants. That is how it is on paper.

How big a deal is this new ratio of 4 Thai staff to 1 Farang staff for consultancies?

>Must show enough income to pay for the foreign employees.

Do you mean we MUST have real cash in bank to show this?

OR just have past records to show the company makes enough money in a year to pay the farang/s?

Before it was legal for me to hire one Thai staff per one Farang staff.

Will this really be changed for consultants to 4 Th per 1 Fg?

If rule is changed, will it actually be enforced?

Any idea about that?

cheers...

Edited September 29, 2006 by southbot

[Maestro]

New changes for the Extension of stay based on Business for Oct 1st 2006.

...

No more one Thai employee ratio for a Consultant or Agent with the extension of stay based on business.

If the foreigner has an extension of stay based on support of Thai wife, does his employer still need four Thai employees?

I seem to remember reading in one of your recent posts that the 4:1 ratio has nothing to do with obtaining a work permit, only with the extension of stay for business, but do not know if this changes on Oct. 1st.

---------------

Maestro

[johwel]

Four Thai employees to one foreigner is still nothing to write home about for me; In South Africa, law forces a ratio of about seven coloured or black employees for every white South African. I used to feel like a foreigner in my own country

[tracer0]

New rule, business must have next years salaries and fringes sitting in the bank at the time of application (does this include share dividends expected to be paid to foreign shareholding employees?) - could be tricky for start-ups going into their second or third years of operation, and could cause quite a few cancelled business registrations amongst the SME's, not to mention cashflow strangulation at a critical stage of a businesses life.

====

A bit of a headache as in my case my renewal is Nov 1st. Does this mean I have to somewhere find one million or so and keep it in the bank?? Its not the kind of thing to be introduced with a months warning...

=======================

New Rule - Net equity not less than one million baht - so basically they're saying that businesses employing foreigners have to keep one million in the bank per foreigner employed? Either that or buy a lot of property for cash and never borrow against it? Business equipment depreciates fast and knocks huge chunks off net equity faster than TRT can skim from infrastructure projects.

==========================

This for me is no problem I think as the wife has land so I presume something can be aranged there...

=========

I'm going to wait and see what's in the temporary Constitution due out Saturday - a lot of the above may be deemable as unconstitutional and have to be revised, although Sunday is 1st October so the timing has been a bit clever, or a bit dumb, depending on the intent of the thinking behind the changes.

I had been thinking to do my renewal before Oct 1 but not enough time to get all paperwork from the accountant. Anyway, I survived the last 6 years with my company including the Tsunami...

=============================

Gaz

[Sunbelt Asia]

I'm hoping that some of the posters above have thrown me a lifeline:- I have been advised that I need to show that I have 400,000 baht in a Thai bank account in order to extend my non-imm O visa to a year visa based on marriage to a Thai national. I cant do this as I am just in the process of sinking every last baht I've got into a business which is owned in my wifes name. Now some of you guys are suggesting that If I have an income of 40000 a month, I could use that to get the visa instead. I have a UK income that far exceeds that. How do I demonstrate that I have this income? Do I show my UK income statements or do I have to show that I have been converting this into baht. If so will my UK bank statements which show that I have cashed far in excess of that for months suffice. OR do I have to show that the money was paid into a Thai acount (it was but a joint acount.

Phew this is bloody complicated. Can anyone help?

Thanks. GARY

You go to the UK Embassy and they will give you a affidavit that you get a income of over 40,000 Baht per month.( every Embassy is different, some will want to see proof, others will take your word) With this you can apply for the extension of stay based on marriage.

If the foreigner has an extension of stay based on support of Thai wife, does his employer still need four Thai employees?

Not for that foreigner directly. However, if other foreigners are employed, even though the ratio of Thai employees does not affect the married man as no Thais are required. It counts against the number of Thais needed when applying for the other extension of stay based on business with the other foreigner.

Example: You work for a Thai company which employs 2 foreigners. The fellow foreigner is married and you are single. In this case, you need 8 Thai employees to obtain an extension of stay based on business. You are not affected if you simply do a visa run every 90 days and revalidate your work permit. The married man can continue to stay and the ratio does not directly impact him.

How big a deal is this new ratio of 4 Thai staff to 1 Farang staff for consultancies?

They will investigate by visiting the work location and ask to see the Thai staff.

>

Must show enough income to pay for the foreign employees.

Do you mean we MUST have real cash in bank to show this?

OR just have past records to show the company makes enough money in a year to pay the farang/s?

Have enough income or money in the bank. If you don't, you will need to obtain a one year multi entry visa and revalidate your work permit every 90 days ( after you reenter into Thailand)

Before it was legal for me to hire one Thai staff per one Farang staff.

Will this really be changed for consultants to 4 Th per 1 Fg?

If rule is changed, will it actually be enforced?

It is now the law. They have been enforcing it the last couple days ( even before Oct 1st)

www.sunbeltasiagroup.com

[Smithson]

Does this mean that to extend me visa for 12 months I will have to show assets, stock and/or cash to the value of 2 million?

The paid up capital will not be a problem as it can be cash or non-cash. The potential problem with some firms will be the net equity of one million Baht. This cannot be "air."

Also the requirement of income to pay the foreigners salaries for the next accounting year may be another issue.

www.sunbeltasiagroup.com

As I understand it in the past the requirement was only for registered capital, in other words just on paper. Do companies now have to actually show they have this amount in assets, stock and/or cash?

If company employs 6 Thais, has a registered capital of 2 mil and is looking for a work permit for one foreigner earing 60k a month, what is required in the way of capital and equity to get the one year visa?

[Sunbelt Asia]

As I understand it in the past the requirement was only for registered capital, in other words just on paper.

Do companies now have to actually show they have this amount in assets, stock and/or cash?

They do look at the balance sheet. How the register capital was paid for, is not the issue. The key is on the equity and income.

If company employs 6 Thais, has a registered capital of 2 mil and is looking for a work permit for one foreigner earing 60k a month, what is required in the way of capital and equity to get the one year visa?

Net equity of at least one million Baht and the company must have enough income to pay the foreigners salary and fringe benefits for the next accounting period.

www.sunbeltasiagroup.com

[Smithson]

They do look at the balance sheet. How the register capital was paid for, is not the issue. The key is on the equity and income.

If company employs 6 Thais, has a registered capital of 2 mil and is looking for a work permit for one foreigner earing 60k a month, what is required in the way of capital and equity to get the one year visa?

Net equity of at least one million Baht and the company must have enough income to pay the foreigners salary and fringe benefits for the next accounting period.

www.sunbeltasiagroup.com

Sorry for sounding like an idiot, but I thought registered capital related to assets/cash/stock. How does income play a part and what sort of income is needed for 2 mil capital?

So does this means we'd need 1 mil in the bank and plus about 800k for to cover the 60k monthly salary?

Edited September 30, 2006 by Smithson

[weary]

So if you got married changed non imm b to a non imm o, the whole situation would be easier?

only need to earn 40k a month instead of 50k or just have 400k in the bank? , if the the new 200/20k rule comes in even easier?

It would be easier and you only need 40K salary per month or 400K in the bank.

This OR is crucial. Have you ever processed any of these applications for Non-O extension of stay in Chiang Mai?

The local Immgration Office seems to claim that it is in fact 40 000 salary AND 400 000 baht in order to get the extension...

[Sunbelt Asia]

So if you got married changed non imm b to a non imm o, the whole situation would be easier?

only need to earn 40k a month instead of 50k or just have 400k in the bank? , if the the new 200/20k rule comes in even easier?

It would be easier and you only need 40K salary per month or 400K in the bank.

This OR is crucial. Have you ever processed any of these applications for Non-O extension of stay in Chiang Mai?

The local Immgration Office seems to claim that it is in fact 40 000 salary AND 400 000 baht in order to get the extension...

WE will check with the Sunbelt CM office Monday but I'm sure they have process applications with just 40K salary or pension for our clients before.

www.sunbeltasiagroup.com

[weary]

Cheers for your prompt reply.

[freitag1]

my friends company has soon a registered capital of 2 million and also makes decent money every month (300 000 BHT). They operate from my friends home which is labeled as their office and have 4 Thais employed.

Do you think they could hire a foreigner based on this?

and what is net equity in thailand and how do they calculate the 1 million?

Thanks a lot sunbelt, I'll get my new workpermit with you again

Edited September 30, 2006 by freitag1

[Mobi]

There is avery comprehensive news item on the changes in visa regulations for all foreigners in today's Pattaya Today. Unfortunately the article is not available on line at the moment so I can't copy it.

For work permit applications, one of the new rules mentioned is that the term "consultant" will no longer be acceptable.

There are changes in the guielines rules for everyone- so I will post it when it is available - probably tomorrow.

[drummer]

Another recent quote "The foreign businessman that was milking Thailand, now will be forced to give some milk back if they want to stay here."

In order to get these people to comply, have they gained some revenue by forcing these people to pay tax, but hurt the economy? A number of people would say this is the case.

They, personally, have gained some revenue, more accurately. The total amount of baht going into the gov't is going to significantly lower.

Milking seems to be some sort of fruediuan slip... after all, the only companies here that are 'milking' thailand are the big ones - the very companies they want to keep... like 7-11, Tesco, Mercedes, etc. They are the ones that export their profits. The smaller businesses spend their money in Thailand.

These changes make it hard for the guys who ADD to Thailand, not take away. Then who here wants to do the milking?

*sigh* I was really hoping for some policy that at least made sense for someone ... The rationale that these laws were simply to get things above board is increasingly unlikely.

Unfortunately, it looks like the things are turning more xenophobic afterall. These laws are either shortsighted xenophobic policies, or a direct cash grab by certain individuals. They are not in the interests of the Thai people (except insofar as you feel that Thai people are better off never seeing a foreigner)

To speak straight, the former option is enough to make me leave and never recommend Thailand to anyone ever again. No one likes to be prejudged, and moreover, our position here is entirely in the hands of people who apparantly despise us. We never know when these guys would decide that enough is enough, and make it impossibe for us to stay, period. If foreigners are bad for Thailand, then it is a seemingly sensible policy. Not economically, but culturally. Not good for us, but at least good for someone (in their apparant view)

The latter option is indeed unfortunate... as it is some individuals in Thailand playing with not only our lives but the lives of a great many Thais in order to make some cash for themselves. Practically speaking, this isn't a whole lot better for us in terms of a stable situation, but at least it isn't, well, something we should take personally.

[tararam]

I think its more and more clear that Thailand not like foreigners working or staying in their country.

As tourist its ok, because they need our money.

Maybe its time to move to Laos to find a place to stay. They, as I know - not have any stupid rules like Thailand.

[Maestro]

I think its more and more clear that Thailand not like foreigners working or staying in their country.

As tourist its ok, because they need our money.

Maybe its time to move to Laos to find a place to stay. They, as I know - not have any stupid rules like Thailand.

What was the procedure for you to get a work permit in Laos and live permanently in that country? Do you need to apply annually for an extension of stay in Laos?

--------------

Maestro

[Sunbelt Asia]

my friends company has soon a registered capital of 2 million and also makes decent money every month (300 000 BHT). They operate from my friends home which is labeled as their office and have 4 Thais employed

Do you think they could hire a foreigner based on this?.

Yes. They in fact do not need to have any Thais employed to get the work permit. It is the extension of stay based on business that has that requirement. If someone does not employ 4 Thais they simply get a multi entry visa with a work permit and are still legal.

and what is net equity in thailand and how do they calculate the 1 million?

Net equity value is defined as the difference between the business' net liquid assets and its long-term liabilities. In theory, what the business is worth if it was liquidated today with no good will.

Thanks a lot sunbelt, I'll get my new workpermit with you again

You are welcome. We look forward to helping you again.

www.sunbeltasiagroup.com

[Sunbelt Asia]

So if you got married changed non imm b to a non imm o, the whole situation would be easier?

only need to earn 40k a month instead of 50k or just have 400k in the bank? , if the the new 200/20k rule comes in even easier?

It would be easier and you only need 40K salary per month or 400K in the bank.

This OR is crucial. Have you ever processed any of these applications for Non-O extension of stay in Chiang Mai?

The local Immgration Office seems to claim that it is in fact 40 000 salary AND 400 000 baht in order to get the extension...

WE will check with the Sunbelt CM office Monday but I'm sure they have process applications with just 40K salary or pension for our clients. Worse case, you can apply in BKK.

www.sunbeltasiagroup.com

It's was either 40,000 Baht salary/pension or 400,000 Baht in the bank account before Oct 1st in Chiang Mai to obtain the extension of stay.

However, they now are looking only at the 40,000 Baht salary. One person or both the husband and Thai wife, need to have the total annual income that is averaged out not less than 40,000 Baht per month. If you grandfathered in, it can be either salary/pension or money in the bank.

Under the new laws, you will need a work permit as your Thai wife and you must be getting 40,000+ Baht per month in Thailand. An exception is made if your Thai wife supports you and she makes more than 40K per month, then no wp is needed.

The only other exceptions of no work permits are a letter of guarantee from a foreign employer or letter from a Embassy stating you have a pension of 40,000+ per month )

You can contact Khun Krit at 053-283-845 and he'll be happy to help you.

www.sunbeltasiagroup.com

[Rossi]

I am following the discussions about the new VISA regulations very carefully, but I am still not sure about the following:

If someone has a multiple entry Non-B-Visa (which is valid for one year) and got a 90-days entry permit on that basis, will this person be granted another 90 days if the Visa is still valid, if he does not have a work permit? In other words: Will it still be possible to do the 90 days visa runs with a Multiple-Entry Non-Immigrant-Type-B-Visa, without really applying for a work permit?

[Firefan]

Rossi; yes. Cheers!

[dreimer]

Hi - the DTI has a download called the Guide to doing Business in Thailand (it's in Adobe pdf format so you need to install Adobe Acrobat Reader) - it explains all the different categories in full detail especially these categories of International Trade Office, representative office etc.

see www.dti.go.th

regards

Gaz

The URL is: http://www.dit.go.th/diteng/ but I couldn't find the pdf file.