Wife's residence permit in old passport

[nellyp]

My wife lived with me in the Uk for 5 years and was given a residence permit (settlement) that was put in her passport. The validity of this is permanent. We have been back in Thailand for 5 years now, but my wife is going back home soon for a long visit. She now has a new passport and the permit is in her old passport. Does anybody know how we handle this? She can take her old and new passports with her (both have her Thai ID number in), but I am worried there could be problems. I contacted the Visa dept in the UK by email, but they sent me some generic email with links that have nothing to do with my problem.

Any help or experiences would be greatly appreciated

Cheers

[Soutpeel]

Just show them both PPs shouldnt be a problem, although the question i would be asking if she has PR in the UK how many years does she need to be out the UK before the PR is revoked...i dont know but in some countries as a PR if your not in the country for a period of time typically 3 to 5 years your PR is automatically revoked

Edited September 29, 2015 by Soutpeel

[tonyk]

ILR normally lapses after two years absence from the UK if she has not visited in that time.

[wooloomooloo]

As tonyk has stated, ILR lapses after two years.

Your wife will have to apply for a general visit visa.

The vignette in the old passport is worthless. Sorry.

[wooloomooloo]

The vignette in the old passport is worthless. Sorry.

I should've added that your wife could potentially squeeze a seven day stay based on her essentially defunct ILR on arrival to the UK. But it would be the first and last on an expired visa, if successful.

Just don't consider it a guaranteed right of entry. Wouldn't chance it myself.

Edited September 29, 2015 by wooloomooloo

[Soutpeel]

ILR normally lapses after two years absence from the UK if she has not visited in that time.

Not that it affects me but out of interest, in order to maintain ILR is there a minimum amount of time an indivdual needs to spend in the UK within that 2 year period in order to keep it valid ?

[7by7]

There is no specific minimum time, but you do need to be a resident.

If on arrival at a UK port of entry immigration have reason to believe that an ILR holder is not actually resident in the UK, e.g. due to spending more time out of the UK than in, they can cancel that ILR on the spot.

Though the holder would be allowed entry as a visitor on that occasion, they would need to obtain the relevant visa for any future trips to the UK.

Nellyp,

as your wife has been out of the UK for 5 years her ILR will have lapsed and she will definitely need the appropriate visa to enter the UK again.

BTW, ILR is Indefinite Leave to Remain; indefinite, not permanent.

If it were still valid, then she could pay the exorbitant fee to transfer it to her new passport, or she could simply do what most people do and carry both old and new passports. If a visa or leave to remain is still valid, then it is still valid; even if the physical stamp is in an expired passport.

Edited September 30, 2015 by 7by7

[nellyp]

Ok, thanks everybody; even though it is not good news.

The extended stay was to work and my wife has already been offered work in the field she worked in before (home care). Could she apply for a working visa because of that?

Cheers

[wooloomooloo]

There's a lesson here and sorry that you and your wife are the example, Nelly. But five years in the UK with ILR and not clearing the final hurdle to British citizenship?

My wife knows quite a few Thai ladies who reside here longterm on ILR and they've no motivation to push that little bit further. And they're quite blasé about it too, which is their right.

Their reasoning is, invariably, that they'll be moving back to LOS sooner or later and don't expect to return so there's no requirement for citizenship

Hindsight is a wonderful thing but circumstance and priorities change over time and having that British passport in the pocket is gold.

My wife and I go to LOS for our second visit of the year this weekend and have already enjoyed two short European holidays this year armed with her British passport.

She's also bestowed all the rights of any other ordinary citizen of this country now. Priceless.

[Richard W]

Nellyp, the OP, wrote, "but my wife is going back home soon for a long visit", meaning to the UK. Might she have some strong connection to the UK that would allow her to get a visa as a 'returning resident'? Conceivably owning property in the UK might just work. It seems a long shot to me, but I have been too pessimistic before.

There used to be policy of granting people visas as 'returning residents' rather than family settlement visas. A colleague's new, Japanese wife got a 'returning resident's visa that way when she applied for a settlement visa back in 2011. (She had previously lived in the UK.) Does that policy still apply?

[theoldgit]

Richard W, on 01 Oct 2015 - 03:56, said:

There used to be policy of granting people visas as 'returning residents' rather than family settlement visas. A colleague's new, Japanese wife got a 'returning resident's visa that way when she applied for a settlement visa back in 2011. (She had previously lived in the UK.) Does that policy still apply?

Yes, providing the criteria is met, returning-resident-visa

[nellyp]

Nellyp, the OP, wrote, "but my wife is going back home soon for a long visit", meaning to the UK. Might she have some strong connection to the UK that would allow her to get a visa as a 'returning resident'? Conceivably owning property in the UK might just work. It seems a long shot to me, but I have been too pessimistic before.

There used to be policy of granting people visas as 'returning residents' rather than family settlement visas. A colleague's new, Japanese wife got a 'returning resident's visa that way when she applied for a settlement visa back in 2011. (She had previously lived in the UK.) Does that policy still apply?

I am looking into this now, but I think the problem may be that my sons and i are not returning too. We own a house in the UK (which we rent out). I can see that she meets a lot of the criteria and can supply the relevant paperwork etc, but there is a part about

"You won’t get a Returning Resident visa unless you’re also able to show what exceptional personal circumstances have led to you being out of the country for this long"

and I have no idea how to approach this. The exceptional circumstances were that I returned to work and she wanted to stay with me. probably not the best reason in the world.

I suppose I just have to risk the 350 quid on an application and see where that goes. If it fails I will have to look at a general visa (though that looks like she will need a sponsor), or a family visa as I have family over there. The trouble is that the job she has been offered think she still has the ILR , and she is going home to work.

By the way, I say home as we lived there as man and wife for 5 years, had 2 kids, and it is where she considers her home to be. It is me who instigated the move to Thailand to get out of the rat-race.

Cheers

[7by7]

<snip>

The extended stay was to work and my wife has already been offered work in the field she worked in before (home care). Could she apply for a working visa because of that?

Unlikely.

For starters, is her potential employer a licensed sponsor and does the job pay at least £20,800 p.a.?

See Tier 2 (General) visa

She may qualify as a returning resident, but to be honest I think the chances are slim. UKVI may consider your working in Thailand as an 'exceptional circumstance' had you no choice, e.g. been stationed there by your employer; but as it seems this was a voluntary decision by you both, I think that they will not.

Up to you if you want to try, though; please let us know how she gets on if you do.

Not sure what you mean by a 'family visa.' If you mean a family visit visa, now amalgamated into the standard visitor visa, then remember this would only allow a maximum of 6 months in the UK and she couldn't work.

If you mean some form of long term visa to live in the UK with your family; forget it. The only thing which comes anywhere close to that is an adult dependent visa, and she obviously doesn't qualify for that.

Which leaves applying for settlement as a spouse and starting the road to ILR all over again; which is a lot more expensive and complicated than when she did it the first time. Can you meet the financial requirement, for example?

Don't want to rub salt in the wound, but for the benefit of others reading this: had she applied for British citizenship once qualified then as a British citizen she could, of course, leave the UK for as long as she wished and always be allowed back in without restriction; just as you and your children are.

[nellyp]

<snip>

The extended stay was to work and my wife has already been offered work in the field she worked in before (home care). Could she apply for a working visa because of that?

Unlikely.

For starters, is her potential employer a licensed sponsor and does the job pay at least £20,800 p.a.?

See Tier 2 (General) visa

She may qualify as a returning resident, but to be honest I think the chances are slim. UKVI may consider your working in Thailand as an 'exceptional circumstance' had you no choice, e.g. been stationed there by your employer; but as it seems this was a voluntary decision by you both, I think that they will not.

Up to you if you want to try, though; please let us know how she gets on if you do.

Not sure what you mean by a 'family visa.' If you mean a family visit visa, now amalgamated into the standard visitor visa, then remember this would only allow a maximum of 6 months in the UK and she couldn't work.

If you mean some form of long term visa to live in the UK with your family; forget it. The only thing which comes anywhere close to that is an adult dependent visa, and she obviously doesn't qualify for that.

Which leaves applying for settlement as a spouse and starting the road to ILR all over again; which is a lot more expensive and complicated than when she did it the first time. Can you meet the financial requirement, for example?

Don't want to rub salt in the wound, but for the benefit of others reading this: had she applied for British citizenship once qualified then as a British citizen she could, of course, leave the UK for as long as she wished and always be allowed back in without restriction; just as you and your children are.

Hi. The job pays more than that, but I have no idea whether she would qualify to be sponsored as, though the job has skills (and she has a UK qualification, though only to NVQ 2), it is not a job that requires a graduate status.

Things are much more difficult now, and even going back to the UK as a family would seem to involve me going basck and getting a job for long enough to prove I could support my wife.Yeah, it would have been easier to get citizenship, but as we were going back to Thailand (and foolishly thought indefinite leave to reside meant my wife could return to the country whenever she wanted), we decided to forego the citizenship angle until we returned.

I am going to riung immigration tomorrow and will post what they say.

[nellyp]

This looks like a lost cause already. The returning residency appears to be nigh on impossible to get, my wife can't find a sponsor in the line of work she does, and I don't earn enough money to meet the support requirements. There is also the problem that i won't be returning at the same time. I am thinking about just throwing money at the Returning residency thing, but getting a lawyer to do it for us.

I do have a concern on top of this. I have two kids with UK passports, and I am planning (by hook or by crook) to get them home for secondary education. This has started me thinking about what happens if I die. Is there anyway my wife can take the boys back to the UK to live? Does anybody know the answer to this? I would be most grateful

Cheers

[7by7]

One major problem regarding the returning resident is that you say you and your sons will not be returning.

How can she show strong ties to the UK when her husband and sons are remaining in Thailand, not be returning to the UK with her?

Personally, I think the only way you are going to achieve UK residency for your wife is to follow the settlement route.

You do say, though, that you don't earn enough to meet the financial requirement; but you also say that you own property in the UK which you rent out.

Rental income can be used toward the financial requirement. See 6.2. Property rental – further guidance in the Financial Appendix.

In addition, if that is not enough, and remember that as your sons are British citizens they are not included in the requirement, so it is the basic £18,600 p.a. for a spouse that you need, then although equity in property cannot be used, cash raised from that property in the form of a remortgage can be.

So you could remortgage the property to give you the cash you need to meet the requirement through cash savings alone or in combination with the rental income, if required.

Were you to die, and I hope you don't for a while yet, then as your sons are British citizens they have the right to live in the UK. If they are still under 18 were this unfortunate event to occur, then they would need someone to care for them.

So your wife could apply under the Zambrano ruling to live in the UK in order to be their primary carer. This ruling was made by the CJEU and is based on EU law, not the UK immigration rules.

But I'm not sure whether or not your sons would need to be resident in the UK already for her to apply, or if she could apply from Thailand so she and they could move to the UK together. The official UKVI guidance only talks about the primary carer of a British citizen who is residing in the UK.

Which to me reads that your sons would have to move to the UK and establish residence and then she could apply under this ruling to come to the UK as their primary carer.

But this is a complicated area, and if you want more information it may be best to seek professional advice.

Finally, if the main (sole?) reason for any move to the UK is to get your sons a British secondary education, another option would be to get them Tier 4 (child) study visas.

But this would not allow them to study at a state school, only an independent fee paying one.

Why the desire for them to have their secondary education in the UK? There are plenty of first class international schools in Thailand where they would probably get a better education than an average UK state school would provide!

[nellyp]

@7by7

Thanks for this, loads of great info. Being in education in Thailand, I have come to realise that many of the international schools are not up to scratch ( my one son regularly competes against them in school competitions), and that only the best are equivalent to the local secondary school my sons would attend (in Wales); and that is a government school.

Thanks again