Rising anger in Thailand's boom-to-bust Isaan

[MZurf]

I hope when they really start to protest, that they direct their anger towards the person mostly responsible, the one who screwed them over on the rice scheme and ruined Thailand for years to come, the one who encouraged them all to get into debt and buy new cars, trucks, houses and smartphones, the one who claimed to be doing everything for their benefit. But they won't, cos he's their hero and can do no wrong and it's always someone else's fault.

They might want to start looking at growing alternative crops and different ways of farming rather than repeating the same old tired cycle over and over again hoping for a better result. That's insanity. One of my friends up North has done this, and they're laughing. Diversification, works wonders.

Your statement is spot on.

They were conned by Thaksin and puppet Yingluck who it would appear was working on behalf of the USA (maybe Thaksin was working for the CIA? ) as he was basically selling the western model (get into personal debt to live beyond one's means).

Yes, and the whole world is secretly ruled by a judeo-christian group led by the Queen of England!

PS. This was seriously suggested to me by a Russian.

[EnglishJohn]

Of course one can thank yinglucks unsustainable, bad political and poorly thought out populist policy for this. Th farmers have grown so accustomed to that carrot that is just out of reach they become reliant on anyone that can offer them extravagant amounts of money for their crop. Like a drug addict without his hit they collapse without that easy unsustainable "hit". I did say 2 years ago that populism destroys prosperity. In 2 years populism destroyed Thailand's ranking in the global rice market. Indonesia exported oil. Decided to subsidize on fuel for its citizens, demand increased, roads were congested and they started importing oil. Greece was giving welfare pledging the future of its citizens. Look at it now. Populism destroys human values of pride, self-respect and hard work. Populism, when unleashed, doesn't go away and often eats its own master. It certainly contributed to the fall of the PTP. History is a good teacher, but the PTP and Yingluck knew better and now their erosive corrupt policies are coming back to haunt them, but the current govt is the target of blame on the uneducated as they are conditioned to focus on a carrot just out of reach. Like the fallout from a nuclear holocaust the famers would blame the people trying to decontaminate the area instead of the people that dropped the bomb. They know no better. I pity them.

Of course has the tax money assisted the sector towards sustainability, such as research and development, irrigation, transportation, financial management, cooperatives and agriculture education that Prayut is looking at pushing on with the sustainable agricultural framework to help the farmers, not bribe them. These efforts of sustainability have multiplier effects that have the power to eventually lift poor farmers out of poverty.

I feel that funding for these longer-term measures however should have been accompanied by several sensible short-term measures to alleviate the innocent, "handout addicted" victims of the populist unsustainable fallout.

The PTP...Really keep on giving and giving well after they have gone. I bet you will, not see anyone from the UDD or PTP offering constructive advice on how to help the farmers because the farmers cannot vote now. As soon as they have the power to vote the PTP and UDD will magically start caring as that is when it suits their agenda.

EDIT - I love this comment "People want to protest," said Sabina Shah, a local leader of Thaksin's "red shirt" supporters in Khon Kaen" Well Sabina the farmers wanted to protest when yingluck was in power as well, but they were unfortunately turned back by the red shirts, intimidated and their families threatened.

"farmers have grown so accustomed to that carrot that is just out of reach"

Yes those pesky poor farmers why don't they just shut up and love the Junta? so accustomed to that "carrot" they really should know their place huh??? why should the last government want to try and help them with subsidies eh? (yes we know it was mis-managed) why not let them starve! EU and USA too!!! stop ALL the farming subsidies dear WORLD

One might think this all has nothing to do with politics and something to do with RICE - if one were a fool that is

'Mis-managed' ???. Just like the amnesty bill was 'mis-understood' ?.

You people really are a class act. You will NEVER admit anything you or your dirty leaders did wrong. Until you grow up, Thailand is stuck in this rut.

[rubl]

I doubt if it is only Issan that is suffering and discontented.

The whole country appears to be suffering the effects of world economic downturn combined with a general economic mismanagement on the home front.

Nothing much going on since 2006, apart from corruption, cronyism, voter deception and buying, struggle over an amnesty to free offenders from worries.

Item 1 on the agenda should be proper education. Mind you the results you would only see in 12 to 15 years time.

[billd766]

They thought loans were gifts, probably what the PTP told them. Now they have to pay back they blame the current government. Instead of changing their ways they are constantly asking for handouts. This is how they are bought by the PTP, and the reason they are angry now. They are not being bribed to vote this time.

They should be helped to change crops, not paying over market price and doing the same stupid thing over and over again. Farming rice does not work but they keep doing it. They say Thailand has a low unemployment rate, let these guys work plenty of immigrants doing work so why can't these guys do the same jobs ?

Sounds almost the same as those living of welfare in my own country, always wanting more and help but not working while others do work.

" Farming rice does not work..."

Huh? Thailand is the world's second largest rice exporter and farming rice does not work?? Even if market prices are depressed right now it doesn't mean they will remain so forever. Farming rice will never make the actual farmers rich but it's put bread on the table (pun intended) for centuries. Besides, it's a winning situation for the junta. Keeping the rural population suitably poor, uneducated and indoctrinated is a way to ensure the continued domination of the old elite.

Of course, if they get too poor then the lid might come off despite dancing girls in camo shorts, reciting Uncle Too's principles, marching and flag waving.

The system in Thailand for farming has to change but it will take a long time. Small hold farming is struggling and the only way out for the farmers is some kind of fixed price assistance.

However, it would be interesting also to see where the current budget is being disbursed. Under previous trt govt, money was also being spent in the provinces for infrastructure. The moment the previous coup happened and then the dems were installed, that tap was cut off too.

What odds the same is happening now?

But only if those provinces had voted for the TRT. If not there was no extra funding.

[rubl]

They thought loans were gifts, probably what the PTP told them. Now they have to pay back they blame the current government. Instead of changing their ways they are constantly asking for handouts. This is how they are bought by the PTP, and the reason they are angry now. They are not being bribed to vote this time.

They should be helped to change crops, not paying over market price and doing the same stupid thing over and over again. Farming rice does not work but they keep doing it. They say Thailand has a low unemployment rate, let these guys work plenty of immigrants doing work so why can't these guys do the same jobs ?

Sounds almost the same as those living of welfare in my own country, always wanting more and help but not working while others do work.

" Farming rice does not work..."

Huh? Thailand is the world's second largest rice exporter and farming rice does not work?? Even if market prices are depressed right now it doesn't mean they will remain so forever. Farming rice will never make the actual farmers rich but it's put bread on the table (pun intended) for centuries. Besides, it's a winning situation for the junta. Keeping the rural population suitably poor, uneducated and indoctrinated is a way to ensure the continued domination of the old elite.

Of course, if they get too poor then the lid might come off despite dancing girls in camo shorts, reciting Uncle Too's principles, marching and flag waving.

Most of the rice comes from the Central Plains, clay, most, wet. NorthEast is marginal for rice.

[Thai at Heart]

They thought loans were gifts, probably what the PTP told them. Now they have to pay back they blame the current government. Instead of changing their ways they are constantly asking for handouts. This is how they are bought by the PTP, and the reason they are angry now. They are not being bribed to vote this time.

They should be helped to change crops, not paying over market price and doing the same stupid thing over and over again. Farming rice does not work but they keep doing it. They say Thailand has a low unemployment rate, let these guys work plenty of immigrants doing work so why can't these guys do the same jobs ?

Sounds almost the same as those living of welfare in my own country, always wanting more and help but not working while others do work.

" Farming rice does not work..."

Huh? Thailand is the world's second largest rice exporter and farming rice does not work?? Even if market prices are depressed right now it doesn't mean they will remain so forever. Farming rice will never make the actual farmers rich but it's put bread on the table (pun intended) for centuries. Besides, it's a winning situation for the junta. Keeping the rural population suitably poor, uneducated and indoctrinated is a way to ensure the continued domination of the old elite.

Of course, if they get too poor then the lid might come off despite dancing girls in camo shorts, reciting Uncle Too's principles, marching and flag waving.

The system in Thailand for farming has to change but it will take a long time. Small hold farming is struggling and the only way out for the farmers is some kind of fixed price assistance.

However, it would be interesting also to see where the current budget is being disbursed. Under previous trt govt, money was also being spent in the provinces for infrastructure. The moment the previous coup happened and then the dems were installed, that tap was cut off too.

What odds the same is happening now?

But only if those provinces had voted for the TRT. If not there was no extra funding.

That's as maybe, but the funds were pumped into those areas. It was ridiculous to see the underpass in my town instantly put on hold whilst budget was removed for 9 months. Fact is, if that type of money has been cut out of the local economies in the provinces it is a big problem.

[Baerboxer]

They thought loans were gifts, probably what the PTP told them. Now they have to pay back they blame the current government. Instead of changing their ways they are constantly asking for handouts. This is how they are bought by the PTP, and the reason they are angry now. They are not being bribed to vote this time.

They should be helped to change crops, not paying over market price and doing the same stupid thing over and over again. Farming rice does not work but they keep doing it. They say Thailand has a low unemployment rate, let these guys work plenty of immigrants doing work so why can't these guys do the same jobs ?

Sounds almost the same as those living of welfare in my own country, always wanting more and help but not working while others do work.

" Farming rice does not work..."

Huh? Thailand is the world's second largest rice exporter and farming rice does not work?? Even if market prices are depressed right now it doesn't mean they will remain so forever. Farming rice will never make the actual farmers rich but it's put bread on the table (pun intended) for centuries. Besides, it's a winning situation for the junta. Keeping the rural population suitably poor, uneducated and indoctrinated is a way to ensure the continued domination of the old elite.

Of course, if they get too poor then the lid might come off despite dancing girls in camo shorts, reciting Uncle Too's principles, marching and flag waving.

No, Vietnam and other countries are doing it cheaper as the Thais, and the farmers are getting poorer all the time needing handouts all the time. So its obvious the small scale farming does not work they need to change crops or occupation. (and should receive help doing that) instead of the constant handout that binds them to the PTP.

".... instead of the constant handout that binds them to the PTP."

Well, don't worry. Uncle Too is in the process of opening the money bag, although (Buddha forbid) it's not in any way populist policies.

Whereas when Yingluck opened the money bag, it was empty. All gone, and no one would tell her where it went.

But don't worry, the Shin family fortune grew a massive 450% during the PTP years in power, unlike many farmers whose debts increased dramatically.

The rich exploiting the poor - the Shins could write the definitive book on it.

[Baerboxer]

I hope when they really start to protest, that they direct their anger towards the person mostly responsible, the one who screwed them over on the rice scheme and ruined Thailand for years to come, the one who encouraged them all to get into debt and buy new cars, trucks, houses and smartphones, the one who claimed to be doing everything for their benefit. But they won't, cos he's their hero and can do no wrong and it's always someone else's fault.

They might want to start looking at growing alternative crops and different ways of farming rather than repeating the same old tired cycle over and over again hoping for a better result. That's insanity. One of my friends up North has done this, and they're laughing. Diversification, works wonders.

Your statement is spot on.

They were conned by Thaksin and puppet Yingluck who it would appear was working on behalf of the USA (maybe Thaksin was working for the CIA? ) as he was basically selling the western model (get into personal debt to live beyond one's means).

Yes, and the whole world is secretly ruled by a judeo-christian group led by the Queen of England!

PS. This was seriously suggested to me by a Russian.

It's her husband actually, the Duke of Edinburgh and Chief Master Mason or whatever the apron wearers call him.

Don't forget they are all lizards, financed by the evil Zionist baby sacrificing Rothschild's who really worship Satan in forests with the likes of Merkel dancing around naked

The new order is upon us and Michael Jackson, Whitney Huston, JFK were all killed for not towing their line.

The tin hatters believe this crap. One, Scot, told me that the plane trails in the sky were really chemical releases from American CIA to brainwash us, and make us more controllable. He seems oblivious to the lack of control in most of the world and I pity his lovely Thai wife,

[Prbkk]

The rice farmers have got short memories.... I'm not a big fan of the Junta, but give them their dues, they settled all the outstanding payments over the rice subsidies as a priority when they took control. If the Red shirts were still in power a majority of the farmers would still be waiting for their money and would probably be bankrupt.

The delays in paying them under Yingluck came as a consequence of threatening and intimidating visits to the banks by Suthep and his goon squads.

[baboon]

I hope when they really start to protest, that they direct their anger towards the person mostly responsible, the one who screwed them over on the rice scheme and ruined Thailand for years to come, the one who encouraged them all to get into debt and buy new cars, trucks, houses and smartphones, the one who claimed to be doing everything for their benefit. But they won't, cos he's their hero and can do no wrong and it's always someone else's fault.

They might want to start looking at growing alternative crops and different ways of farming rather than repeating the same old tired cycle over and over again hoping for a better result. That's insanity. One of my friends up North has done this, and they're laughing. Diversification, works wonders.

Your statement is spot on.

They were conned by Thaksin and puppet Yingluck who it would appear was working on behalf of the USA (maybe Thaksin was working for the CIA? ) as he was basically selling the western model (get into personal debt to live beyond one's means).

Yes, and the whole world is secretly ruled by a judeo-christian group led by the Queen of England!

PS. This was seriously suggested to me by a Russian.

It's her husband actually, the Duke of Edinburgh and Chief Master Mason or whatever the apron wearers call him.

Don't forget they are all lizards, financed by the evil Zionist baby sacrificing Rothschild's who really worship Satan in forests with the likes of Merkel dancing around naked

Now come on. Even you must admit you should be banned from Thaivisa for implanting that image in peoples' heads. Jeez! And there was me just about to have a bite to eat...

[robblok]

The rice farmers have got short memories.... I'm not a big fan of the Junta, but give them their dues, they settled all the outstanding payments over the rice subsidies as a priority when they took control. If the Red shirts were still in power a majority of the farmers would still be waiting for their money and would probably be bankrupt.

The delays in paying them under Yingluck came as a consequence of threatening and intimidating visits to the banks by Suthep and his goon squads.

Not really, YL had not made any provitions before she stepped down, so the banks could not give that money. YL only thought about herself and not the farmers when she stepped down a good PM would have made sure payments could have gone though.

Yes Suthep threatened the banks because YL had stepped down and made no provisions paying out would have been illegal. Chicken and egg "smart YL" should have loaned the money from the banks before. She did not.. she is to blame. Can't blame Suthep here (i dislike him) but he was right.

[MZurf]

" Farming rice does not work..."

Huh? Thailand is the world's second largest rice exporter and farming rice does not work?? Even if market prices are depressed right now it doesn't mean they will remain so forever. Farming rice will never make the actual farmers rich but it's put bread on the table (pun intended) for centuries. Besides, it's a winning situation for the junta. Keeping the rural population suitably poor, uneducated and indoctrinated is a way to ensure the continued domination of the old elite.

Of course, if they get too poor then the lid might come off despite dancing girls in camo shorts, reciting Uncle Too's principles, marching and flag waving.

No, Vietnam and other countries are doing it cheaper as the Thais, and the farmers are getting poorer all the time needing handouts all the time. So its obvious the small scale farming does not work they need to change crops or occupation. (and should receive help doing that) instead of the constant handout that binds them to the PTP.

".... instead of the constant handout that binds them to the PTP."

Well, don't worry. Uncle Too is in the process of opening the money bag, although (Buddha forbid) it's not in any way populist policies.

Whereas when Yingluck opened the money bag, it was empty. All gone, and no one would tell her where it went.

But don't worry, the Shin family fortune grew a massive 450% during the PTP years in power, unlike many farmers whose debts increased dramatically.

The rich exploiting the poor - the Shins could write the definitive book on it.

Actually , the Shins are not the source of neither original sin, corruption nor nepotism in Thailand, a fact that seems lost on some of you. He was just very, very good at it. In fact he was so good that he pushed away the old, entitled snouts from the trough and that cannot be tolerated. Hence the current political situation.

Edited October 1, 2015 by MZurf

[Tatsujin]

I hope when they really start to protest, that they direct their anger towards the person mostly responsible, the one who screwed them over on the rice scheme and ruined Thailand for years to come, the one who encouraged them all to get into debt and buy new cars, trucks, houses and smartphones, the one who claimed to be doing everything for their benefit. But they won't, cos he's their hero and can do no wrong and it's always someone else's fault.

They might want to start looking at growing alternative crops and different ways of farming rather than repeating the same old tired cycle over and over again hoping for a better result. That's insanity. One of my friends up North has done this, and they're laughing. Diversification, works wonders.

Your statement is spot on.

They were conned by Thaksin and puppet Yingluck who it would appear was working on behalf of the USA (maybe Thaksin was working for the CIA? ) as he was basically selling the western model (get into personal debt to live beyond one's means).

Yes, and the whole world is secretly ruled by a judeo-christian group led by the Queen of England!

PS. This was seriously suggested to me by a Russian.

It's her husband actually, the Duke of Edinburgh and Chief Master Mason or whatever the apron wearers call him.

Don't forget they are all lizards, financed by the evil Zionist baby sacrificing Rothschild's who really worship Satan in forests with the likes of Merkel dancing around naked

The new order is upon us and Michael Jackson, Whitney Huston, JFK were all killed for not towing their line.

The tin hatters believe this crap. One, Scot, told me that the plane trails in the sky were really chemical releases from American CIA to brainwash us, and make us more controllable. He seems oblivious to the lack of control in most of the world and I pity his lovely Thai wife,

I thought the Queen "conspiracy" was partly about Nazi's, cos of their family connections ...

[rice555]

It'll all come to a head one day and I am convinced Yingluck will be treated far more kindly by history than the current installed PM. The rice scheme was poorly managed but well intended and now the subsidies have stopped and the farmers, once AGAIN, will suffer and does the Junta care? we know the answer to THAT.

Ha, the farmers, the POOR farmers couldn't even get into the program!

rice555

[Tatsujin]

The rice farmers have got short memories.... I'm not a big fan of the Junta, but give them their dues, they settled all the outstanding payments over the rice subsidies as a priority when they took control. If the Red shirts were still in power a majority of the farmers would still be waiting for their money and would probably be bankrupt.

The delays in paying them under Yingluck came as a consequence of threatening and intimidating visits to the banks by Suthep and his goon squads.

Nope, completely wrong.

They were already in trouble with payments long before Suthep got involved. They simply hadn't got any payment system already in place and then scrambled around like headless chickens trying to borrow money from every man and his dog and issuing tons of bonds.

http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/11/19/us-thailand-rice-idUSBRE9AI07320131119

"The Thai government will issue a 75 billion baht ($2.38 billion) bond to help fund a rice subsidy scheme that has not paid out to farmers since October 1, a delay that risks alienating key supporters of Prime Minister Yingluck Shinawatra."

"The government will issue a three-year bond worth 75 billion baht to raise funds for the rice-buying scheme, a senior official at the Finance Ministry's Public Debt Management Office (PDMO) said on Tuesday."

"The bond will be offered for the public by November so that we can raise funds on time as farmers have started harvesting," said PDMO deputy director Suwit Rojanawanich.

[MZurf]

Of course one can thank yinglucks unsustainable, bad political and poorly thought out populist policy for this. Th farmers have grown so accustomed to that carrot that is just out of reach they become reliant on anyone that can offer them extravagant amounts of money for their crop. Like a drug addict without his hit they collapse without that easy unsustainable "hit". I did say 2 years ago that populism destroys prosperity. In 2 years populism destroyed Thailand's ranking in the global rice market. Indonesia exported oil. Decided to subsidize on fuel for its citizens, demand increased, roads were congested and they started importing oil. Greece was giving welfare pledging the future of its citizens. Look at it now. Populism destroys human values of pride, self-respect and hard work. Populism, when unleashed, doesn't go away and often eats its own master. It certainly contributed to the fall of the PTP. History is a good teacher, but the PTP and Yingluck knew better and now their erosive corrupt policies are coming back to haunt them, but the current govt is the target of blame on the uneducated as they are conditioned to focus on a carrot just out of reach. Like the fallout from a nuclear holocaust the famers would blame the people trying to decontaminate the area instead of the people that dropped the bomb. They know no better. I pity them.

Of course has the tax money assisted the sector towards sustainability, such as research and development, irrigation, transportation, financial management, cooperatives and agriculture education that Prayut is looking at pushing on with the sustainable agricultural framework to help the farmers, not bribe them. These efforts of sustainability have multiplier effects that have the power to eventually lift poor farmers out of poverty.

I feel that funding for these longer-term measures however should have been accompanied by several sensible short-term measures to alleviate the innocent, "handout addicted" victims of the populist unsustainable fallout.

The PTP...Really keep on giving and giving well after they have gone. I bet you will, not see anyone from the UDD or PTP offering constructive advice on how to help the farmers because the farmers cannot vote now. As soon as they have the power to vote the PTP and UDD will magically start caring as that is when it suits their agenda.

EDIT - I love this comment "People want to protest," said Sabina Shah, a local leader of Thaksin's "red shirt" supporters in Khon Kaen" Well Sabina the farmers wanted to protest when yingluck was in power as well, but they were unfortunately turned back by the red shirts, intimidated and their families threatened.

"farmers have grown so accustomed to that carrot that is just out of reach"

Yes those pesky poor farmers why don't they just shut up and love the Junta? so accustomed to that "carrot" they really should know their place huh??? why should the last government want to try and help them with subsidies eh? (yes we know it was mis-managed) why not let them starve! EU and USA too!!! stop ALL the farming subsidies dear WORLD

One might think this all has nothing to do with politics and something to do with RICE - if one were a fool that is

'Mis-managed' ???. Just like the amnesty bill was 'mis-understood' ?.

You people really are a class act. You will NEVER admit anything you or your dirty leaders did wrong. Until you grow up, Thailand is stuck in this rut.

"You will NEVER admit anything you or your dirty leaders did wrong"

Dear John, I guess you're referring to those of us who defend the Thais right to decide themselves who their leaders should be, as opposed to be ruled by a junta?

Well John, I can (again) tell you that I found the previous administrations hideously corrupt and inept, but they were the leaders elected by the people of Thailand and not by some cozy clique of old "comrades" in Bangkok.

Yes John, even the stupid reds (as you love to point out ad nauseam) do have a right to vote!

[Eric Loh]

They thought loans were gifts, probably what the PTP told them. Now they have to pay back they blame the current government. Instead of changing their ways they are constantly asking for handouts. This is how they are bought by the PTP, and the reason they are angry now. They are not being bribed to vote this time.

They should be helped to change crops, not paying over market price and doing the same stupid thing over and over again. Farming rice does not work but they keep doing it. They say Thailand has a low unemployment rate, let these guys work plenty of immigrants doing work so why can't these guys do the same jobs ?

Sounds almost the same as those living of welfare in my own country, always wanting more and help but not working while others do work.

" Farming rice does not work..."

Huh? Thailand is the world's second largest rice exporter and farming rice does not work?? Even if market prices are depressed right now it doesn't mean they will remain so forever. Farming rice will never make the actual farmers rich but it's put bread on the table (pun intended) for centuries. Besides, it's a winning situation for the junta. Keeping the rural population suitably poor, uneducated and indoctrinated is a way to ensure the continued domination of the old elite.

Of course, if they get too poor then the lid might come off despite dancing girls in camo shorts, reciting Uncle Too's principles, marching and flag waving.

No, Vietnam and other countries are doing it cheaper as the Thais, and the farmers are getting poorer all the time needing handouts all the time. So its obvious the small scale farming does not work they need to change crops or occupation. (and should receive help doing that) instead of the constant handout that binds them to the PTP.

".... instead of the constant handout that binds them to the PTP."

Well, don't worry. Uncle Too is in the process of opening the money bag, although (Buddha forbid) it's not in any way populist policies.

Whereas when Yingluck opened the money bag, it was empty. All gone, and no one would tell her where it went.

But don't worry, the Shin family fortune grew a massive 450% during the PTP years in power, unlike many farmers whose debts increased dramatically.

The rich exploiting the poor - the Shins could write the definitive book on it.

BB, don't get carry away with your dislike for the Shin. Empty seem much exaggerated. Revenue collection even for a bad 2014 year was 2T + enough to finance 90% of the budget. Then there is still a cash hoard of 178 B USD in foreign reserve. And the Shin and many wealthy families wealth growth are much due to the bullish stock market You think farmers invest in the stock market?

[Tatsujin]

It'll all come to a head one day and I am convinced Yingluck will be treated far more kindly by history than the current installed PM. The rice scheme was poorly managed but well intended and now the subsidies have stopped and the farmers, once AGAIN, will suffer and does the Junta care? we know the answer to THAT.

OK, first of all, whatever happens to Thaksin/Yingluck is entirely of their own making. Those that are still blinded by the red propaganda will continue to believe they are a self-sacrificing family who put the interests of the "poor" over their own, when in reality nothing they do is for any reason other than to enrich themselves and their cronies.

Secondly, the rice scheme was a scam from day one, it was NOT well intended, as only the middle/top level rice farmers were eligible, the poorest who actually needed the help couldn't participate. The people who made shitloads of money from this were the people that owned the fields (they put up the rent, A LOT), the rice millers (owned by, you can guess), and the transportation and storage companies (again, you can guess who they are owned by).

The Thailand Development Research Institute (TDRI), a private non-profit foundation that researches public policy, analyzed the rice pledging scheme in 2012 and identified several disadvantages. (Advantages and Disadvantages of Rice Pledging Scheme[in Thai] TDRI (Sept. 2012).) For example, it found that the farmers who would receive the most benefit from the scheme would be high to moderate-income farmers (around 1.185 million households), because they are capable of cultivating considerable amounts of rice for the purpose of selling their product to the government. (Id.) In contrast, low-income farmers possess only the ability to cultivate rice for consumption by their own households. Thus, they would not have enough rice to enter into the rice pledging scheme. (Id.) Furthermore, THAI PBS found that only 8% of farmers would benefit from this scheme. (1 Year: Problems of Rice Pledging Scheme of Yingluck Administration, supra.)

[bamukloy]

A collapsing Chinese economy. Perhaps American and European sanctions in the near future. Forget about boiling over. This pot could become a pressure cooker that explodes.

Sanctions?

Unthinkable...over what btw?

Not following the news ? Eu fishing ban (no longer allowing Thai products to be sold in EU) if the regulations arent followed. US might impose sanctions because of the human trafficking.

Correct me if wrong, but i would think the downturn in exports in the fishing industry would only hurt the elite.

After all it is the elite who are the agents and the owners and shareholders of big food processing bussinesses?

The fishermen are reportedly suffering reduced catches now, due to bad over fishing practices, so without the greedy rich feeding the export industry maybe the fishermen can concentrate on the domestic market.

I dont get the doom and gloom over exports. The workers and the poor will always be poor but at least they can sustain themselves via local and farmers markets.

If big business, export agents and the greedy ba$tards in Bangkok can no longer ride on the backs of the Isaan workers i cant see it as a bad thing.

[Thai at Heart]

It'll all come to a head one day and I am convinced Yingluck will be treated far more kindly by history than the current installed PM. The rice scheme was poorly managed but well intended and now the subsidies have stopped and the farmers, once AGAIN, will suffer and does the Junta care? we know the answer to THAT.

OK, first of all, whatever happens to Thaksin/Yingluck is entirely of their own making. Those that are still blinded by the red propaganda will continue to believe they are a self-sacrificing family who put the interests of the "poor" over their own, when in reality nothing they do is for any reason other than to enrich themselves and their cronies.

Secondly, the rice scheme was a scam from day one, it was NOT well intended, as only the middle/top level rice farmers were eligible, the poorest who actually needed the help couldn't participate. The people who made shitloads of money from this were the people that owned the fields (they put up the rent, A LOT), the rice millers (owned by, you can guess), and the transportation and storage companies (again, you can guess who they are owned by).

The Thailand Development Research Institute (TDRI), a private non-profit foundation that researches public policy, analyzed the rice pledging scheme in 2012 and identified several disadvantages. (Advantages and Disadvantages of Rice Pledging Scheme[in Thai] TDRI (Sept. 2012).) For example, it found that the farmers who would receive the most benefit from the scheme would be high to moderate-income farmers (around 1.185 million households), because they are capable of cultivating considerable amounts of rice for the purpose of selling their product to the government. (Id.) In contrast, low-income farmers possess only the ability to cultivate rice for consumption by their own households. Thus, they would not have enough rice to enter into the rice pledging scheme. (Id.) Furthermore, THAI PBS found that only 8% of farmers would benefit from this scheme. (1 Year: Problems of Rice Pledging Scheme of Yingluck Administration, supra.)

That link doesn't work. Can you republish it. Might make good reading.

[eldragon]

Heartland? I thought the Shinawatra clan was from Chiang Mai.

And can the world come to some agreement on how... that region in the northeast will be spelled in English? Is it Isan? Or Esarn? Issan???

[Thai at Heart]

Heartland? I thought the Shinawatra clan was from Chiang Mai.

And can the world come to some agreement on how... that region in the northeast will be spelled in English? Is it Isan? Or Esarn? Issan???

They can't even settle on Ekkamai, or Ekhamai, or ekhaamai, or ekkaamai

[Tatsujin]

It'll all come to a head one day and I am convinced Yingluck will be treated far more kindly by history than the current installed PM. The rice scheme was poorly managed but well intended and now the subsidies have stopped and the farmers, once AGAIN, will suffer and does the Junta care? we know the answer to THAT.

OK, first of all, whatever happens to Thaksin/Yingluck is entirely of their own making. Those that are still blinded by the red propaganda will continue to believe they are a self-sacrificing family who put the interests of the "poor" over their own, when in reality nothing they do is for any reason other than to enrich themselves and their cronies.

Secondly, the rice scheme was a scam from day one, it was NOT well intended, as only the middle/top level rice farmers were eligible, the poorest who actually needed the help couldn't participate. The people who made shitloads of money from this were the people that owned the fields (they put up the rent, A LOT), the rice millers (owned by, you can guess), and the transportation and storage companies (again, you can guess who they are owned by).

The Thailand Development Research Institute (TDRI), a private non-profit foundation that researches public policy, analyzed the rice pledging scheme in 2012 and identified several disadvantages. (Advantages and Disadvantages of Rice Pledging Scheme[in Thai] TDRI (Sept. 2012).) For example, it found that the farmers who would receive the most benefit from the scheme would be high to moderate-income farmers (around 1.185 million households), because they are capable of cultivating considerable amounts of rice for the purpose of selling their product to the government. (Id.) In contrast, low-income farmers possess only the ability to cultivate rice for consumption by their own households. Thus, they would not have enough rice to enter into the rice pledging scheme. (Id.) Furthermore, THAI PBS found that only 8% of farmers would benefit from this scheme. (1 Year: Problems of Rice Pledging Scheme of Yingluck Administration, supra.)

That link doesn't work. Can you republish it. Might make good reading.

Sorry, I can't track that down either.

Try these:

http://www.upecon.org.ph/publicpolicy/presentations/session5/Suthad%20Setboonsarng%20-%20Political%20Economy%20of%20Agricultural%20Policy%20in%20Thailand.pdf

(disavantages sections show it all beautifully)

http://tdri.or.th/en/tdri-insight/pledging-scheme-aids-rich/

(clear and simple enough that even a donkey can understand it, not sure about some of the TV members tho)

[Thai at Heart]

It'll all come to a head one day and I am convinced Yingluck will be treated far more kindly by history than the current installed PM. The rice scheme was poorly managed but well intended and now the subsidies have stopped and the farmers, once AGAIN, will suffer and does the Junta care? we know the answer to THAT.

OK, first of all, whatever happens to Thaksin/Yingluck is entirely of their own making. Those that are still blinded by the red propaganda will continue to believe they are a self-sacrificing family who put the interests of the "poor" over their own, when in reality nothing they do is for any reason other than to enrich themselves and their cronies.

Secondly, the rice scheme was a scam from day one, it was NOT well intended, as only the middle/top level rice farmers were eligible, the poorest who actually needed the help couldn't participate. The people who made shitloads of money from this were the people that owned the fields (they put up the rent, A LOT), the rice millers (owned by, you can guess), and the transportation and storage companies (again, you can guess who they are owned by).

The Thailand Development Research Institute (TDRI), a private non-profit foundation that researches public policy, analyzed the rice pledging scheme in 2012 and identified several disadvantages. (Advantages and Disadvantages of Rice Pledging Scheme[in Thai] TDRI (Sept. 2012).) For example, it found that the farmers who would receive the most benefit from the scheme would be high to moderate-income farmers (around 1.185 million households), because they are capable of cultivating considerable amounts of rice for the purpose of selling their product to the government. (Id.) In contrast, low-income farmers possess only the ability to cultivate rice for consumption by their own households. Thus, they would not have enough rice to enter into the rice pledging scheme. (Id.) Furthermore, THAI PBS found that only 8% of farmers would benefit from this scheme. (1 Year: Problems of Rice Pledging Scheme of Yingluck Administration, supra.)

That link doesn't work. Can you republish it. Might make good reading.

Sorry, I can't track that down either.

Try these:

http://www.upecon.org.ph/publicpolicy/presentations/session5/Suthad%20Setboonsarng%20-%20Political%20Economy%20of%20Agricultural%20Policy%20in%20Thailand.pdf

(disavantages sections show it all beautifully)

http://tdri.or.th/en/tdri-insight/pledging-scheme-aids-rich/

(clear and simple enough that even a donkey can understand it, not sure about some of the TV members tho)

Thanks.

[Tatsujin]

Heartland? I thought the Shinawatra clan was from Chiang Mai.

And can the world come to some agreement on how... that region in the northeast will be spelled in English? Is it Isan? Or Esarn? Issan???

I was of the understanding that when they referred to the Shinawatra "heartland", it wasn't referring to where they actually lived or were born, but more where the people they (supposedly) "represent" are ... i.e. the rice farmers spread all over the middle, upper regions of Thailand (predominantly).

Or I could be talking out of my ass and completely wrong.

[Eric Loh]

It'll all come to a head one day and I am convinced Yingluck will be treated far more kindly by history than the current installed PM. The rice scheme was poorly managed but well intended and now the subsidies have stopped and the farmers, once AGAIN, will suffer and does the Junta care? we know the answer to THAT.

OK, first of all, whatever happens to Thaksin/Yingluck is entirely of their own making. Those that are still blinded by the red propaganda will continue to believe they are a self-sacrificing family who put the interests of the "poor" over their own, when in reality nothing they do is for any reason other than to enrich themselves and their cronies.

Secondly, the rice scheme was a scam from day one, it was NOT well intended, as only the middle/top level rice farmers were eligible, the poorest who actually needed the help couldn't participate. The people who made shitloads of money from this were the people that owned the fields (they put up the rent, A LOT), the rice millers (owned by, you can guess), and the transportation and storage companies (again, you can guess who they are owned by).

The Thailand Development Research Institute (TDRI), a private non-profit foundation that researches public policy, analyzed the rice pledging scheme in 2012 and identified several disadvantages. (Advantages and Disadvantages of Rice Pledging Scheme[in Thai] TDRI (Sept. 2012).) For example, it found that the farmers who would receive the most benefit from the scheme would be high to moderate-income farmers (around 1.185 million households), because they are capable of cultivating considerable amounts of rice for the purpose of selling their product to the government. (Id.) In contrast, low-income farmers possess only the ability to cultivate rice for consumption by their own households. Thus, they would not have enough rice to enter into the rice pledging scheme. (Id.) Furthermore, THAI PBS found that only 8% of farmers would benefit from this scheme. (1 Year: Problems of Rice Pledging Scheme of Yingluck Administration, supra.)

I don't disagree with you but tell me which governments in the past have not done things to benefit themselves and their cronies and I will also include military governments. They are all the same and Thaksin parties are no different from any of the past governments. Ultimately the people will see through their corruptions and will make their feelings felt at the ballot box. Military intervention and harsh laws stripped them of their rights and rights to question corruption of the military.

Thaksin for all his imperfections have done things that people resonated which allow him to be the first PM to serve a full term and re-elected for another term. His parties have won all election and that's a recognition and acknowledgement of his policies. Even Prayuth is flip flopping to agree with most of Thaksin policies. Come next election, it looks like another Thaksin party will be elected again. The rice scheme was a poor policy but will be just that lousy policy against a broad range of policies that has benefitted the Thais.

[Tatsujin]

It'll all come to a head one day and I am convinced Yingluck will be treated far more kindly by history than the current installed PM. The rice scheme was poorly managed but well intended and now the subsidies have stopped and the farmers, once AGAIN, will suffer and does the Junta care? we know the answer to THAT.

OK, first of all, whatever happens to Thaksin/Yingluck is entirely of their own making. Those that are still blinded by the red propaganda will continue to believe they are a self-sacrificing family who put the interests of the "poor" over their own, when in reality nothing they do is for any reason other than to enrich themselves and their cronies.

Secondly, the rice scheme was a scam from day one, it was NOT well intended, as only the middle/top level rice farmers were eligible, the poorest who actually needed the help couldn't participate. The people who made shitloads of money from this were the people that owned the fields (they put up the rent, A LOT), the rice millers (owned by, you can guess), and the transportation and storage companies (again, you can guess who they are owned by).

The Thailand Development Research Institute (TDRI), a private non-profit foundation that researches public policy, analyzed the rice pledging scheme in 2012 and identified several disadvantages. (Advantages and Disadvantages of Rice Pledging Scheme[in Thai] TDRI (Sept. 2012).) For example, it found that the farmers who would receive the most benefit from the scheme would be high to moderate-income farmers (around 1.185 million households), because they are capable of cultivating considerable amounts of rice for the purpose of selling their product to the government. (Id.) In contrast, low-income farmers possess only the ability to cultivate rice for consumption by their own households. Thus, they would not have enough rice to enter into the rice pledging scheme. (Id.) Furthermore, THAI PBS found that only 8% of farmers would benefit from this scheme. (1 Year: Problems of Rice Pledging Scheme of Yingluck Administration, supra.)

I don't disagree with you but tell me which governments in the past have not done things to benefit themselves and their cronies and I will also include military governments. They are all the same and Thaksin parties are no different from any of the past governments. Ultimately the people will see through their corruptions and will make their feelings felt at the ballot box. Military intervention and harsh laws stripped them of their rights and rights to question corruption of the military.

Thaksin for all his imperfections have done things that people resonated which allow him to be the first PM to serve a full term and re-elected for another term. His parties have won all election and that's a recognition and acknowledgement of his policies. Even Prayuth is flip flopping to agree with most of Thaksin policies. Come next election, it looks like another Thaksin party will be elected again. The rice scheme was a poor policy but will be just that lousy policy against a broad range of policies that has benefitted the Thais.

I'm not defending "any" previous Government, of any color, they are all a bunch of thieves. What I am doing is pointing out that the Shinawatra's are no saints, are not whiter than white, and in most instances are 10 x times worse than any other thieves out there.

You are quite correct, when the people wake up and smell the coffee, their vote (when they are allowed one) will show who they support.

However, I'm hoping one day that the voters here (and in the UK, USA etc) will stop believing the lies, promises , bullshit, populist policies etc that promise so much and deliver so little, and a big part of that is down to who controls the media and who has the big bucks to throw at elections/TV to make sure that "their" guy is elected and in charge to ensure the interests of the ones that have bought and paid for him.

[robertson468]

It's a basic rule of thumb that you need a 50k+ monthly salary in order to buy a new car on credit and run it. Many financial problems in low income Isaan are self inflicted. One hardly sees any red plates in the area now though.

Where did you get these statistics from?

[wabothai]

It's a basic rule of thumb that you need a 50k+ monthly salary in order to buy a new car on credit and run it. Many financial problems in low income Isaan are self inflicted. One hardly sees any red plates in the area now though.

My maid got a new truck with a very small downpayment. And we pay her WAY less than 50k/month! LOL

You don't need 50k a month, however there are plenty of Issan people who are simply too dumb to even understand they have to pay back loans.

My ex-wife's mother borrowed Baht 240,000 more than 20 years ago, they paid only the interest of 5,750 per month for 20 years before the loan shark finally came knocking on the door and demanded the principal be paid. They lost their house to pay the principal despite having paid over 1.5million in interest payments. They also borrowed a further 60,000 at 10% per month as the the house didn't cover all of the outstanding debt. Plenty of people bought cars etc they simply could not afford to pay for.

Dumber than a box of hammers. Sadly this is not an isolated case. It's hard to have sympathy when people are this stupid.

A better word to use would be "ignorant". iso stupid.

"thinking" one has to learn.

[Eric Loh]

We shouldn't underestimate the intelligence of the Thai people to make their decision at the ballot box. Twice the voters made their voices heard and voted out the Dem government under Chuan due to massive corruption of the Sor Phor Kor scandal and policies that prospered their crony companies and friends. Thaksin can be voted out if we allow democracy to mature and the people realized the power they hold.