baboon Posted October 2, 2015 Share Posted October 2, 2015 Why should I drop the argument of people need to give the current government a chance? Because you are not prepared to say what the public would or should do as and when they blow that chance. It makes you appear hypocritical as it implies the public have a choice in the matter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thaidream Posted October 2, 2015 Share Posted October 2, 2015 The public always have a choice. They can do what you are doing- refusing to give the government a chance because you refuse to accept why they came to power. You are basing your dislike as a Westerner indoctrinated in the belief that Democracy is the only and best form of government. I can have my opinion, you have yours. Other people have other opinions. Television in Thailand has many opinions that are well stated and not all are in favor of the government. Last night there was a program regarding the Internet gateway proposal. Everyone on the program was opposed to it. There was no censorship. The station was not blocked. Your refusal to give this government a chance to succeed is not logical. Throw away your Western mindset. Democracy has many practical versions.If the General succeeds will you then agree you were wrong? I doubt it because you can't get past the Coup. However as they say Up To You. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phuketandsee Posted October 2, 2015 Share Posted October 2, 2015 Lot of empty seats for his speech: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
outsider Posted October 2, 2015 Share Posted October 2, 2015 Likes to hear himself speak. Or read his own words huh? Not a single quote from a third-party. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
baboon Posted October 2, 2015 Share Posted October 2, 2015 Isn't it the public's right to decide a government has had time enough and that their chance has expired? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thaidream Posted October 2, 2015 Share Posted October 2, 2015 When that time arrives- the result will be evident and whatever needs to happen will occur as a result. No one can predict when that will occur, other than it is not now.As I mentioned Western governments take years to make changes happen. Change takes time- even when you have the power. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phycokiller Posted October 2, 2015 Share Posted October 2, 2015 the country has changed. Everyone is safe, they dont bomb political rallies anymore, only tourist attractions Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alwyn Posted October 2, 2015 Share Posted October 2, 2015 "I invited them to visit Thailand, telling them that the country has changed. Everyone is safe and Thais are happy." How could any political leader spout such fatuous claptrap and expect to be taken seriously? Come on! He truly has no shame Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
outsider Posted October 2, 2015 Share Posted October 2, 2015 "I invited them to visit Thailand, telling them that the country has changed. Everyone is safe and Thais are happy." How could any political leader spout such fatuous claptrap and expect to be taken seriously? Come on! He truly has no shame Perhaps he really does think NOBODY outside the boundaries of Thailand hears, or reads, his remarks? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
baboon Posted October 2, 2015 Share Posted October 2, 2015 When that time arrives- the result will be evident and whatever needs to happen will occur as a result. No one can predict when that will occur, other than it is not now.As I mentioned Western governments take years to make changes happen. Change takes time- even when you have the power. But you would concede that the Thai military have a track record of shooting people who object to governments they form? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thaidream Posted October 2, 2015 Share Posted October 2, 2015 Governments have a duty to protect the average citizen from chaos. When shot at- they shoot back. It has nothing to do with keeping power but keeping order. The US police shoot back when shot at and even when they are not shot at. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phycokiller Posted October 2, 2015 Share Posted October 2, 2015 The bombs going off are a direct result of the feudal system trying to suppress modernism. Remove the feudalist parasites and there will be no more bombs than in any other civilized country. Im not sure Thailand is at that stage yet, seems like nobody is opposed to feudalism, just a little undecided who the feudal lord should be Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phycokiller Posted October 2, 2015 Share Posted October 2, 2015 The public always have a choice. They can do what you are doing- refusing to give the government a chance because you refuse to accept why they came to power. You are basing your dislike as a Westerner indoctrinated in the belief that Democracy is the only and best form of government. I can have my opinion, you have yours. Other people have other opinions. Television in Thailand has many opinions that are well stated and not all are in favor of the government. Last night there was a program regarding the Internet gateway proposal. Everyone on the program was opposed to it. There was no censorship. The station was not blocked. Your refusal to give this government a chance to succeed is not logical. Throw away your Western mindset. Democracy has many practical versions.If the General succeeds will you then agree you were wrong? I doubt it because you can't get past the Coup. However as they say Up To You. what do you mean give them a chance? you really think we are somehow hindering this regime by having opinions? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nobb Posted October 2, 2015 Share Posted October 2, 2015 Sorry but i do not believe every thing is great and Thais are happy. I guess maybe he never goes out of his office very much. I believe that there is a big storm coming and hope that it is all peaceful. When you are talking to the worlds leaders you should not tell stories because they are all already well informed about what is going on in Thailand. Hope it does not back fire on him! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jesimps Posted October 2, 2015 Share Posted October 2, 2015 The public always have a choice. They can do what you are doing- refusing to give the government a chance because you refuse to accept why they came to power. You are basing your dislike as a Westerner indoctrinated in the belief that Democracy is the only and best form of government. I can have my opinion, you have yours. Other people have other opinions. Television in Thailand has many opinions that are well stated and not all are in favor of the government. Last night there was a program regarding the Internet gateway proposal. Everyone on the program was opposed to it. There was no censorship. The station was not blocked. Your refusal to give this government a chance to succeed is not logical. Throw away your Western mindset. Democracy has many practical versions.If the General succeeds will you then agree you were wrong? I doubt it because you can't get past the Coup. However as they say Up To You. So you are basing your liking of the junta on the belief that might is right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jesimps Posted October 2, 2015 Share Posted October 2, 2015 The public always have a choice. They can do what you are doing- refusing to give the government a chance because you refuse to accept why they came to power. You are basing your dislike as a Westerner indoctrinated in the belief that Democracy is the only and best form of government. I can have my opinion, you have yours. Other people have other opinions. Television in Thailand has many opinions that are well stated and not all are in favor of the government. Last night there was a program regarding the Internet gateway proposal. Everyone on the program was opposed to it. There was no censorship. The station was not blocked. Your refusal to give this government a chance to succeed is not logical. Throw away your Western mindset. Democracy has many practical versions.If the General succeeds will you then agree you were wrong? I doubt it because you can't get past the Coup. However as they say Up To You. So you are basing your liking of the junta on the belief that might is right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thaidream Posted October 2, 2015 Share Posted October 2, 2015 I was here during each uprising that you mention and have good knowledge of the circumstance. It is not as black and white as you think. I do know this when you shoot at the Army- any Army- they shoot back. That does not make it right - it is just a fact and I am certainly not blaming anyone for what happened. Normally, history decides those things. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
baboon Posted October 2, 2015 Share Posted October 2, 2015 I was here during each uprising that you mention and have good knowledge of the circumstance. It is not as black and white as you think. I do know this when you shoot at the Army- any Army- they shoot back. That does not make it right - it is just a fact and I am certainly not blaming anyone for what happened. Normally, history decides those things. So who was shooting at the army, with what and why? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thaidream Posted October 2, 2015 Share Posted October 2, 2015 I suggest you read History or speak to a Thai person who will explain it to you from their perspective. It would not be proper for me to explain it as I am a guest in the country. Much too controversial to get into on an open forum. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thaidream Posted October 2, 2015 Share Posted October 2, 2015 One added note- Might is not always right but what is right is always right. even if might is behind it. I am not trying to be clever or sarcastic- just think about it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thaidream Posted October 3, 2015 Share Posted October 3, 2015 I never said any such thing and I am not interested in going back in History to discuss different takes on what happened or did not happen. I am more interested in what is going to happen in the future. It is the General I called a Thai patriot because he acted out of concern for his country. If any of what you read is true- those kind of people are not patriots as they act on their own and do not represent anyone other than themselves. You continue to obscure the actual argument. I go back to my original statement- let's give the Prime Minster a chance to succeed or not. So much venom; so much hatred and dislike and this is from foreigners. It is no wonder society everywhere is going downhill. People refuse to co-operate. They want it only their way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soalbundy Posted October 3, 2015 Share Posted October 3, 2015 I suggest you read History or speak to a Thai person who will explain it to you from their perspective. It would not be proper for me to explain it as I am a guest in the country. Much too controversial to get into on an open forum. As Churchill once said,'' History will be kind to me, for i shall write it myself. However i do think you have some valid points, the lead up to this coup showed what a mess this country is in. The coup certainly brought about a certain stability to this country even if it is still boiling underneath it is not bubbling over. Time is a great healer, a reasonable amount of time is needed for emotions to simmer down. Having said that i think we all agree that the situation at the moment is not ideal, armies are not made to run a country well, it is not in their brief. Thailand was never a really democratic country,successive governments were corrupt and cynical in their use of power, the measuring tape for a solution should be cut to length to reflect the reality that exists here, the army can act as a benevolent referee if it remains impartial. There will be a democratically elected government within a few years, it is to be hoped that they have learnt their lesson, pull back the bow until it breaks the army will step in again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
baboon Posted October 3, 2015 Share Posted October 3, 2015 I never said any such thing and I am not interested in going back in History to discuss different takes on what happened or did not happen. I am more interested in what is going to happen in the future. It is the General I called a Thai patriot because he acted out of concern for his country. If any of what you read is true- those kind of people are not patriots as they act on their own and do not represent anyone other than themselves. You continue to obscure the actual argument. I go back to my original statement- let's give the Prime Minster a chance to succeed or not. So much venom; so much hatred and dislike and this is from foreigners. It is no wonder society everywhere is going downhill. People refuse to co-operate. They want it only their way. Where have I obscured the argument? What do you consider the argument to be in the first place, then? "If any of what you read is true" - feel free to refute any of it but I doubt you will because you can't, as far as I can tell. All you seem to have in the arsenal is 'Give him a chance' but you repeatedly refuse to say what happens as and when it all goes wrong, because you know perfectly well that given the track record of the military, they are perfectly prepared to kill large numbers of people in order to stay in power, a fact you appear to be attempting to gloss over. Do you have anything other than 'Four legs good, two legs bad'? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cmsally Posted October 3, 2015 Share Posted October 3, 2015 Governments have a duty to protect the average citizen from chaos. When shot at- they shoot back. It has nothing to do with keeping power but keeping order. The US police shoot back when shot at and even when they are not shot at. You might want to stop and consider the roles of governments, police and army. Are you saying govts have a duty or army have a duty. Governments do have a duty as they are the representatives of the majority populace and that is who they are answerable to. But army ... all a bit of a mess "innit?" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
baboon Posted October 3, 2015 Share Posted October 3, 2015 So all you have to work with is blind faith as far as I can see, but you are as entitled to your point of view as anyone else. Nice to cross swords with someone who remains civil, mind.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thaidream Posted October 3, 2015 Share Posted October 3, 2015 Good to hear your opinion. If I end up being wrong- I shall be the first to admit it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cmsally Posted October 3, 2015 Share Posted October 3, 2015 I think any country that ignores its past does so at its peril. One of the major problems in Thailand is that history is brushed under the carpet. The lack of and impossibility of educated debate as well as the playing of zero sum politics are the 2 major underlying impediments to a democratic and workable system. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thaidream Posted October 3, 2015 Share Posted October 3, 2015 I agree with you. Taking a long and hard look at what has happened in the past and learning from errors in policy and actions does prepare one for the future. Unfortunately, as you stated this is a difficult concept in Thailand as it involves potential confrontation and admittance of wrong which will include a loss of face. In some cases, other Nations like the United States continue to ignore their past and utilize their military in an attempt to control how they want the World to develop.I really don't see a solution for this enigma. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cmsally Posted October 3, 2015 Share Posted October 3, 2015 The USA has the luxury of mostly being concerned about what the army does outside its borders. Unfortunately no one has yet managed to shove the Thai army off to places of hardship in far flung lands, so "idle hands/work for".. and all that... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phycokiller Posted October 3, 2015 Share Posted October 3, 2015 I never said any such thing and I am not interested in going back in History to discuss different takes on what happened or did not happen. I am more interested in what is going to happen in the future. It is the General I called a Thai patriot because he acted out of concern for his country. If any of what you read is true- those kind of people are not patriots as they act on their own and do not represent anyone other than themselves. You continue to obscure the actual argument. I go back to my original statement- let's give the Prime Minster a chance to succeed or not. So much venom; so much hatred and dislike and this is from foreigners. It is no wonder society everywhere is going downhill. People refuse to co-operate. They want it only their way. in most western countries people can express their opinions without others calling it venom or hatred, and most politicians are fairly thick skinned, they arent going to fail because a few people disagree with them. you like his military style of saying whatever he feels like, how about you extend that admiration to your fellow humans that also have opinions? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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